190 replies to this topic

[Yyubie]

 

Pretty much. SasuSakuNaru is pretty much popular in Japan, but Kishi/SP/SJ were looking at the West because that's were Naruto makes a lot of profit. And NH is everywhere in the West (by that I mean a lot of cosplayers, fan art, rabid fan base). And they decided to kill two birds with one stone because SNS/SS also have a large base. 

 

NS was fine in JP, but smaller in the West compared to NH, and Naruto makes money in the West. They will obviously go with the one with more chance of profit. 

 

Still traditional values had a lot to do with the ending, but NH also had a major factor in establishing it. I don't know which would have been canon (NS/SS) if Hinata was never in the picture, but Hinata (her fans) pretty much established the ending we have now. 

Wow really?? in experience all my distant friend that lives in the western country never buy their stuff, they read the manga online, download the movie online, and pirate the game. But yeah maybe you right and my friends just a very small fraction of that.

[NeonRanger]

Wow really?? in experience all my distant friend that lives in the western country never buy their stuff, they read the manga online, download the movie online, and pirate the game. But yeah maybe you right and my friends just a very small fraction of that.

 

By west I mean mainly international. My friends and I buy the manga despite reading online. DBZ is more popular than Naruto in the West, but Naruto takes second. Oda mention how he view Kishi as a rival because of international sells. OP is top in JP, but is weaker international sells. 

 

I do do read manga/ watch free online, but I still buy things to support.

[tricksie]

I really agree with Tricksie. But I'll go a bit further. The ending had to do a lot with Kishi's culture. You already read the interview about Sakura being a heroine. The Japanese hated her confession to Naruto. In Japan, unconditional love is looked at more highly.

 

That's why SNS/SS is popular in the Eastern pats rather than NS/NH. Naruto/ Sakura continued to love Sasuke even at his worst. In Japan once a girl confessed her love chapter (ch 181), the guy must respond first before she can move on. Which is why moving on to another person without knowledge of how the other feels is viewed negatively. 

 

For Hinata, she is still a popular character despite The Last reception. Like Tricksie mention, girls like Hinata are looked up by Japanese girls and are the Idealistic type for Japanese boys. Sakura was liked too, but SP characterized her badly. Manga alone Sakura is okay, but the anime emphasized it. Sakura is boisterous for typical Japanese, but her love for Team 7 & manga was what kept her relevant until SP started wanking Hinata. 

 

NS is also noticed in Japan, but it's smaller compared to SNS/ SS, but it is more noticeable internationally. Shockingly the west also perceives SS/SNS and NH as the better ship when according to western standards NS is better. 

 

Also db84x, is right, as of lately, and a couple years before, Sakura type characters are becoming more unpopular in Japan. And it's not popular in the West. 

 

Kishi is also a traditional Japanese man, which means he's conservative in a way. Sexism and traditional values also is still very common in Japan. If you saw Sarada's new outfit, unfortunately this is what is considered attractive for little girls. 

 

Kishi still gave in to popularity, but that's was due to the West. JP overall cares nothing about ships, so NS could have happened the very same. SP/ SJ saw the popularity NH had over the West, so canon. Kishi had no issues because of his beliefs and just agreed.

Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about. I didn't notice before, but since the ending (the hate of a self-reliant type like Sakura and the worship of a weak, submissive girl like Hinata) I've seen the stereotype more and more in Japanese culture/media/manga/anime. I originally thought that the switch of Hinata to heroine of Sakura was just for cash, but now I think it's deeper.

 

And you're right about Kishimoto having traditional Japanese ideals, meaning conservative towards women. I don't think he was like that at the beginning of the manga — Look at Naruto in the pilot! He's about as far from conservative as you can get! — but Kishi's grown that way of the course of the series. And sexism in Japan in a serious thing: Women who dare to return back to work after having a child are called 'devil wives'!!! Crazy! And combine that with social attitudes towards dating now (the Japanese youth are shunning it), taking the traditional salary-man jobs and working 70 hours a week (again, Japanese youth are shunning it), and the future numbers that show a decrease in population from lack of procreating couples...you can see how there's a social tug-of-war between the old ways and the new.

 

I just wonder if it was an issue Kishimoto didn't care about back in 1999 when he was in his early 20s and creating the manga, versus now, in his early 40s, with kids of his own, at the end of the manga. Because the end pairing doesn't fit the beginning. 

 

And it's not a hard leap to make that the marketing teams would be happy pitching a docile, easy-on-the-eyes heroine such as Hinata over one like Sakura, who doesn't have a real-life counterpart in current Japanese culture. 

 

Also, that's not to say there aren't modern girls/women who like Sakura and NS in Japan. Just that they clearly weren't allowed in the room when the decision to switch heroines was being made. If there are even any women in positions of authority in that industry at all!

 

I agree, the combination of the hardcore shipping of NH from the West, the prevalence of a feminine beauty ideal and the conservative views of women's behavior and roles in society were just too much to fight against. And who pays for it in the end? Sakura who winds up a single parent, doomed to clean Sasuke's house for the rest of her days!! Because to go to work now would make her one of those 'devil wives' in Japanese culture.

 

Hinata looks plump and happy in her role, but Sakura's homemaker role rings hollow. It's not a happy ending. It's uncomfortable. I think Kishimoto unwittingly made a statement about the problem of gender equality and stereotypes in Japanese society right now. 

[NeonRanger]

Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about. I didn't notice before, but since the ending (the hate of a self-reliant type like Sakura and the worship of a weak, submissive girl like Hinata) I've seen the stereotype more and more in Japanese culture/media/manga/anime. I originally thought that the switch of Hinata to heroine of Sakura was just for cash, but now I think it's deeper.

 

And you're right about Kishimoto having traditional Japanese ideals, meaning conservative towards women. I don't think he was like that at the beginning of the manga — Look at Naruto in the pilot! He's about as far from conservative as you can get! — but Kishi's grown that way of the course of the series. And sexism in Japan in a serious thing: Women who dare to return back to work after having a child are called 'devil wives'!!! Crazy! And combine that with social attitudes towards dating now (the Japanese youth are shunning it), taking the traditional salary-man jobs and working 70 hours a week (again, Japanese youth are shunning it), and the future numbers that show a decrease in population from lack of procreating couples...you can see how there's a social tug-of-war between the old ways and the new.

 

I just wonder if it was an issue Kishimoto didn't care about back in 1999 when he was in his early 20s and creating the manga, versus now, in his early 40s, with kids of his own, at the end of the manga. Because the end pairing doesn't fit the beginning. 

 

And it's not a hard leap to make that the marketing teams would be happy pitching a docile, easy-on-the-eyes heroine such as Hinata over one like Sakura, who doesn't have a real-life counterpart in current Japanese culture. 

 

Also, that's not to say there aren't modern girls/women who like Sakura and NS in Japan. Just that they clearly weren't allowed in the room when the decision to switch heroines was being made. If there are even any women in positions of authority in that industry at all!

 

I agree, the combination of the hardcore shipping of NH from the West, the prevalence of a feminine beauty ideal and the conservative views of women's behavior and roles in society were just too much to fight against. And who pays for it in the end? Sakura who winds up a single parent, doomed to clean Sasuke's house for the rest of her days!! Because to go to work now would make her one of those 'devil wives' in Japanese culture.

 

Hinata looks plump and happy in her role, but Sakura's homemaker role rings hollow. It's not a happy ending. It's uncomfortable. I think Kishimoto unwittingly made a statement about the problem of gender equality and stereotypes in Japanese society right now. 

 

I agree. The beginning is different than the end. Kishi probably wanted to send a message but gave up in the end. 

 

Also agree; sexism/ racism is still a problem even today in Japan.

 

http://www.east-west...exism-in-japan/

 

Some women even left JP because women in authority is rare and not looked upon a good light. It's more of a in and out battle.

 

Kishi could have been a good representation of changing the system/ sexism in JP, by the looks of part 1/ pre-Pain part 2, but he decided to let the otaku/ loud ones in and gave up. I even read an SNS post on how he could have made a "canon" gay couple, which is also good (but I hate SNS becuse for me it's just as toxic as SS; I prefer Naruto x Gaara). Even though I don't agree with SNS, I do agree that Kishi could have gave a decent message across. With NS you have a different view of romance that is more positive; having Sakura continue being a medical ninja, being more of a role model; actually changing the system instead of wanking it longer. 

Edited by NeonRanger, 28 January 2016 - 06:11 PM.

[narusakurama]

Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about. I didn't notice before, but since the ending (the hate of a self-reliant type like Sakura and the worship of a weak, submissive girl like Hinata) I've seen the stereotype more and more in Japanese culture/media/manga/anime. I originally thought that the switch of Hinata to heroine of Sakura was just for cash, but now I think it's deeper.

 

And you're right about Kishimoto having traditional Japanese ideals, meaning conservative towards women. I don't think he was like that at the beginning of the manga — Look at Naruto in the pilot! He's about as far from conservative as you can get! — but Kishi's grown that way of the course of the series. And sexism in Japan in a serious thing: Women who dare to return back to work after having a child are called 'devil wives'!!! Crazy! And combine that with social attitudes towards dating now (the Japanese youth are shunning it), taking the traditional salary-man jobs and working 70 hours a week (again, Japanese youth are shunning it), and the future numbers that show a decrease in population from lack of procreating couples...you can see how there's a social tug-of-war between the old ways and the new.

 

I just wonder if it was an issue Kishimoto didn't care about back in 1999 when he was in his early 20s and creating the manga, versus now, in his early 40s, with kids of his own, at the end of the manga. Because the end pairing doesn't fit the beginning. 

 

And it's not a hard leap to make that the marketing teams would be happy pitching a docile, easy-on-the-eyes heroine such as Hinata over one like Sakura, who doesn't have a real-life counterpart in current Japanese culture. 

 

Also, that's not to say there aren't modern girls/women who like Sakura and NS in Japan. Just that they clearly weren't allowed in the room when the decision to switch heroines was being made. If there are even any women in positions of authority in that industry at all!

 

I agree, the combination of the hardcore shipping of NH from the West, the prevalence of a feminine beauty ideal and the conservative views of women's behavior and roles in society were just too much to fight against. And who pays for it in the end? Sakura who winds up a single parent, doomed to clean Sasuke's house for the rest of her days!! Because to go to work now would make her one of those 'devil wives' in Japanese culture.

 

Hinata looks plump and happy in her role, but Sakura's homemaker role rings hollow. It's not a happy ending. It's uncomfortable. I think Kishimoto unwittingly made a statement about the problem of gender equality and stereotypes in Japanese society right now. 

 

I still think it was all just for cash . The quality and originality  of the newer works is decreasing so  stereotypes are  used as compensation which is probably why this appears to be more common of late .

Same with Kishi , at the start the manga  was his top priority . Then it became popular and it started making lots of money and gradually Kishis' priorities started changing . With that , quality also started declining  which in turn meant less money . So  he   had to do something to boost popularity and keep the money coming in , probably also advised by the editors . They studied the market , saw that the Hinata stereotype as heroine brings in more money and Kishi adopted that into his work .

As for Kishi himself , I don't think he shares this view of Hinata being the ideal woman  . To me  he seems more like a SS type that dreams himself as the Sasuke type of man .

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

 

It was a Chinese article. There was no poll about hated couples with SS in #1 and NS #2. There is a poll on which ship shouldn't be married/ together in JP. SS is #6 (206 people) and NH is #10 (132). But that doesn't help because of bias. I tried translating (Google, lol) the comments, majority who hated are SNS shippers and Yaoi shippers in general. There was also a ship war because Asuma x Krito was voted #1 as well as some ship in Detective Conan which was voted high in rankings, people were pissed off. 

 

NS is popular in China, it was ranked #19 in popular ships. NH was #39 but SS was ranked #12. 

 

You misunderstood me. I mentioned only the big three. Was referring to the order (not the actually ranking) the big three came in. SS first place, NS second and NH third.

[Bail o' Lies]

 

By west I mean mainly international. My friends and I buy the manga despite reading online. DBZ is more popular than Naruto in the West, but Naruto takes second. Oda mention how he view Kishi as a rival because of international sells. OP is top in JP, but is weaker international sells. 

 

I do do read manga/ watch free online, but I still buy things to support.

I think attack of the titans along with a few other anime have taken Naruto's place in the past few years in sales.

[NeonRanger]

 

I still think it was all just for cash . The quality and originality  of the newer works is decreasing so  stereotypes are  used as compensation which is probably why this appears to be more common of late .

Same with Kishi , at the start the manga  was his top priority . Then it became popular and it started making lots of money and gradually Kishis' priorities started changing . With that , quality also started declining  which in turn meant less money . So  he   had to do something to boost popularity and keep the money coming in , probably also advised by the editors . They studied the market , saw that the Hinata stereotype as heroine brings in more money and Kishi adopted that into his work .

As for Kishi himself , I don't think he shares this view of Hinata being the ideal woman  . To me  he seems more like a SS type that dreams himself as the Sasuke type of man .

 

It was for cash, but values also played part. SS is canon, yet Kishi still made Sakura a full time housewife. Being a housewife isn't bad, but Sakura was never fit into that role compared to characters like Hinata. Kishi wrote and described Sakura as having dreams and ambitions, pursuing as a medical ninja. You saw Sakura having an active role beginning of part 2, being more independent and self assured. Yet as the series went on she became more doubtful and looking at others for assurances and a damsel. Kishi transformed Sakura into a "Hinata lite" in the end, more submissive and accepting. I noticed that during The Last. I don't expect Sakura punching Naruto for every stupid act, but she became a lot more calmer and kept in. Not many people liked the Sakura that was being portrayed, so Kishi must have changed Sakura into more of a Hinata like personality; he failed but tried. Money played a role, which was why NH happen, but the way problems were solved, like Sakura's role is clear roles in what is more liked/ hated for the majority. 

[NeonRanger]

I think attack of the titans along with a few other anime have taken Naruto's place in the past few years in sales.

 

Yeah they did, but it only happen recently. Naruto is third place in overall sales worldwide (OP/DBZ take first and second). AoT has been gaining but no enough yet (they haven't supassed sales yet). But as of lately TG and OPM are gaining more popularity in America over Naruto. I personally feel that OPM might surpass Naruto (and AoT); I really hope there is a second season. 

 

 

You misunderstood me. I mentioned only the big three. Was referring to the order (not the actually ranking) the big three came in. SS first place, NS second and NH third.

 

Oh, okay. Well yes, you're right. I thought you were talking about rankings. Sorry. But yes, NS is still strong in China. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Last year sales have OPM, TG, and AoT beating Naruto.

[Narufan85]

As others have noted, I don't see how you could read the conclusion along with Kishi's post-700 interviews and deny the huge influence cultural influence shaping the end of the manga. I think the article you posted, Tricksie, is certainly interesting and really resonated with me. I've posted before that I was a NH shipper in part 1, and even when I shifted to NS I still enjoyed Hinata's appearance in that she wasn't overly sexualized like Sakura or Ino. It was really telling that her look was completely redesigned in The Last.

 

With time to reflect, it's clear that Kishi relied on a lot of common tropes in his work. The SS relationship ends up being such a stereotypical (good girl falls for rich, dangerous, broody bad guy she wants to fix) that you find all over different books and movies.

 

I don't begrude folks having different ships, I just wish Kishi had actually taken the time to develop these other pairings the way he did NS and didn't fall back on really rigid gender expectations in his comments and interviews.

[alexander]

Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about. I didn't notice before, but since the ending (the hate of a self-reliant type like Sakura and the worship of a weak, submissive girl like Hinata) I've seen the stereotype more and more in Japanese culture/media/manga/anime. I originally thought that the switch of Hinata to heroine of Sakura was just for cash, but now I think it's deeper.

 

And you're right about Kishimoto having traditional Japanese ideals, meaning conservative towards women. I don't think he was like that at the beginning of the manga — Look at Naruto in the pilot! He's about as far from conservative as you can get! — but Kishi's grown that way of the course of the series. And sexism in Japan in a serious thing: Women who dare to return back to work after having a child are called 'devil wives'!!! Crazy! And combine that with social attitudes towards dating now (the Japanese youth are shunning it), taking the traditional salary-man jobs and working 70 hours a week (again, Japanese youth are shunning it), and the future numbers that show a decrease in population from lack of procreating couples...you can see how there's a social tug-of-war between the old ways and the new.

 

I just wonder if it was an issue Kishimoto didn't care about back in 1999 when he was in his early 20s and creating the manga, versus now, in his early 40s, with kids of his own, at the end of the manga. Because the end pairing doesn't fit the beginning. 

 

And it's not a hard leap to make that the marketing teams would be happy pitching a docile, easy-on-the-eyes heroine such as Hinata over one like Sakura, who doesn't have a real-life counterpart in current Japanese culture. 

 

Also, that's not to say there aren't modern girls/women who like Sakura and NS in Japan. Just that they clearly weren't allowed in the room when the decision to switch heroines was being made. If there are even any women in positions of authority in that industry at all!

 

I agree, the combination of the hardcore shipping of NH from the West, the prevalence of a feminine beauty ideal and the conservative views of women's behavior and roles in society were just too much to fight against. And who pays for it in the end? Sakura who winds up a single parent, doomed to clean Sasuke's house for the rest of her days!! Because to go to work now would make her one of those 'devil wives' in Japanese culture.

 

Hinata looks plump and happy in her role, but Sakura's homemaker role rings hollow. It's not a happy ending. It's uncomfortable. I think Kishimoto unwittingly made a statement about the problem of gender equality and stereotypes in Japanese society right now. 

 

The thing is that Japan right now is living in an giant double standard. In one side, their liberal and modern society allowed many personal freedoms. Now young adults can do as they please, and many shun dating and marriege for being too troublesome or frightening. While at the same time they hold tightly to the conservative ideals that a man must provide for the family, and that a woman must become a housewife once she gets pregnant. This ideal causes most men to have no confidence in themselves and cowering away from social life. And both of these situations combined caused a massive drop in birthrate in Japan. By 2060, it's expected the population to be reduced 33%. So because of that, I'm starting to think that the Japanese leadership in politics and media is desperately trying to convince people to start holding more tradionalist and simplistic values in order to increase the number of families. Such as "find yourself a nice and kindhearted wife that is supportive" or "stay away from the aggressive types, they're no good for relationships".

 

Maybe it's an shot in the dark here, but it does seem that the delicate social situation in japan is starting to affect everything, from day to day life to things such as entertaiment.

[Bail o' Lies]

The problem with that is that modern women are generally more like Sakura then Hinata. So finding a girl like Hinata in modern day is normally a fantasy. 

[Nostradamus]

The problem with that is that modern women are generally more like Sakura then Hinata. So finding a girl like Hinata in modern day is normally a fantasy. 

Thank God.

[Niky]

The problem with that is that modern women are generally more like Sakura then Hinata. So finding a girl like Hinata in modern day is normally a fantasy. 

 

It'a fantasy only because if a modern (or any time) woman was like Hinata would be abandoned three months from marriage. Yes, because the marriage would be such a bore...

 

Hinata is a 'lovely' girl in the fantasy world only.

Her male fans too wouldn't stand her in the real world (unless her dull - sorry, modest - behaviour was a cunning, fake, strategic behavioral - To play the idiot not to go at war, basically).

 

About the Yamato Nadeshiko (or Baifumei) trope...

Sorry, she is NOT in this trope... because she is really ugly (Nardo, however, is uglier than her ). It's only SP that makes her beautiful.  

 

About the traditional Japanese sexism...

It's not that the japanese males are all sexist (if you want to see TRUE sexism go to read shoujo mangas )... The Shonen Jump and SP's workers, they are.

 

More clearly, they don't want a weak woman... They want a NOT PROBLEMATIC WOMAN.

 

Too busy with work to bother with dates or to build a relationship, they want a woman who takes all responsibility.

 

A woman who keeps the home neat, takes care of children, doesn't complain.

Who is dedicated and loyal, loving (SHE loving THEM, of course) and tolerant. 

A woman pure and young-looking but a sex's bomb when they are in THE mood.

And, lastly, a woman of good standing and wealthy.

 

Pretty much the lazy and useless men's dream.   

 

But then again, it's only a fantasy.

They will never get it (and they KNOW). 

 

That's why they wouldn't take a NO in Naruto's manga.

Edited by Niky, 29 January 2016 - 02:07 AM.

[alexander]

 

It'a fantasy only because if a modern (or any time) woman was like Hinata would be abandoned three months from marriage. Yes, because the marriage would be such a bore...

 

Hinata is a 'lovely' girl in the fantasy world only.

Her male fans too wouldn't stand her in the real world (unless her dull - sorry, modest - behaviour was a cunning, fake, strategic behavioral - To play the idiot not to go at war, basically).

 

About the Yamato Nadeshiko (or Baifumei) trope...

Sorry, she is NOT in this trope... because she is really ugly (Nardo, however, is uglier than her ). It's only SP that makes her beautiful.  

 

About the traditional Japanese sexism...

It's not that the japanese males are all sexist (if you want to see TRUE sexism go to read shoujo mangas )... The Shonen Jump and SP's workers, they are.

 

More clearly, they don't want a weak woman... They want a NOT PROBLEMATIC WOMAN.

 

Too busy with work to bother with dates or to build a relationship, they want a woman who takes all responsibility.

 

A woman who keeps the home neat, takes care of children, doesn't complain.

Who is dedicated and loyal, loving (SHE loving THEM, of course) and tolerant. 

A woman pure and young-looking but a sex's bomb when they are in THE mood.

And, lastly, a woman of good standing and wealthy.

 

Pretty much the lazy and useless men's dream. 

 

But then again, it's only a fantasy.

They will never get it.

 

That's why they wouldn't take a NO in Naruto's manga.

 

I don't know about that. I mean, how is it that over 70% of adult men in america are not married? Half of the complaints is because of the utterly one sided way the law deals with divorce were the men lose everything and the woman gains everything. While the other half is made up of complaints of women behaviour, with them being too confrontational, aggressive and emetionaly unstable.

 

We may complain about how Hinata is portrayed, but the truth is that western men treat her type as the desirable one in these days. Agreeable, accepting and doesn't complain about anything. Strong and independent woman scare off men, while the more feminine and meek types get more attention. And I can't deny that I see were they are coming from. I mean, I consider myself a MGTOW. After analyzing our current society, and deciding I have no interest in the relationship types it presents me.

Edited by alexander, 29 January 2016 - 02:15 AM.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

I was reading this post from one of the anime forums and it hit the spot real good.

I am not sure if all of this is real but I remember a french friend of mine who told me that there was a documentary about Naruto that stated
 
- The magazine does have a considerate amount of power over the mangakas
- The magazine really cares about the feedback of the fans for the weekly chapter by sending some kind of grading.
- Shonen mangas are judged by their popularity and not their quality. Half of the series that are not really popular are replaced. 
- When a series is popular it gets an anime adaptation to aim the mainstream.
- The workload is absolutely mental, mangakas work 7 days a week almost all day.
- The magazine heavily rules the life of the mangakas and tend to refuse almost all interviews so they remain focus on their work. The magazine picks the assistants and editors. In fact, the mangakas are completely controlled by the magazine.
- Naruto created its success by using the basic shonen codes used by DBZ (tournament, friendship, protagonist growing stronger, enemies turning into friends)
- They have noticed an increase interest from female readers.
- The manga was really popular especially in france but was published in a kitten load of countries (US of course) and most of europe and the countries surrounding Japan.
 
Thoughts: I think the magazine clearly rates their series based on their popularity and could care less about the quality as long as it sells and the magazine has an enormous control on the mangakas by hiring the assistants and editors themselves. Its not factual but the magazine could be considered the equivalent of the studio system in the US because they are the ones who decide which series live or die because they are the ones putting the money into the project. Naturally, if I put money into a project I would expect some satisfying return and would put my hand on the work itself to make sure that the product sells to as many people as possible. A lot of  directors constantly complain about investors ruining their films by changing the stories, deleting key scenes, and adding things that are pointless to the story to sale more tickets. I am thinking about Spiderman 3 flooded with pointless subplots and Venom never being intended into the story cause he was so damn popular and could get the most hardcore comic fans on board. The studio could care less about the quality due to the good reception of the second film and they knew people would see it no matter how kitten it was. I don't see how Shonen would be different considering that they are also driven to make as much money as possible and could make more than questionable inputs and changes to the story to please as many people as possible.
 
Edit: Hierarchy and respecting authority are fundamental values in Japanese society. Parents tend to always have the last words on their children and women still tend to be considered as second class citizens (the generation in the 60's were definitely raised that way at least).

[Bail o' Lies]

Alexander.I think that is the backlash of the really (overly) aggressive feminism in the past few years.

[Yyubie]

 

It'a fantasy only because if a modern (or any time) woman was like Hinata would be abandoned three months from marriage. Yes, because the marriage would be such a bore...

 

Hinata is a 'lovely' girl in the fantasy world only.

Her male fans too wouldn't stand her in the real world (unless her dull - sorry, modest - behaviour was a cunning, fake, strategic behavioral - To play the idiot not to go at war, basically).

 

About the Yamato Nadeshiko (or Baifumei) trope...

Sorry, she is NOT in this trope... because she is really ugly (Nardo, however, is uglier than her ). It's only SP that makes her beautiful.  

 

About the traditional Japanese sexism...

It's not that the japanese males are all sexist (if you want to see TRUE sexism go to read shoujo mangas )... The Shonen Jump and SP's workers, they are.

 

More clearly, they don't want a weak woman... They want a NOT PROBLEMATIC WOMAN.

 

Too busy with work to bother with dates or to build a relationship, they want a woman who takes all responsibility.

 

A woman who keeps the home neat, takes care of children, doesn't complain.

Who is dedicated and loyal, loving (SHE loving THEM, of course) and tolerant. 

A woman pure and young-looking but a sex's bomb when they are in THE mood.

And, lastly, a woman of good standing and wealthy.

 

Pretty much the lazy and useless men's dream.   

 

But then again, it's only a fantasy.

They will never get it (and they KNOW). 

 

That's why they wouldn't take a NO in Naruto's manga.

I doubt a girl like Hinata can even protect herself. Having a perfect girl like that as your wife/girlfriend means you have to be EXTRA careful, no doubt there's gonna be a tons of other otaku/beta male who will try to steal her. Just take a look at Hinata herself, she always submissive to ALL around her even to stranger. And eventually you like or not it will lead into a dark story ... some evil guy will try to drug her to .... you know .... it is inevitable because like the portray says ... she is the PERFECT girl.

 

But girl like Sakura ?? everyone will think twice or more if they wanna do bad things with her or you, you know she is scary. Take a look at Kushina and Chi-Chi, nobody dare to mess with them. BUT ... like Shikamaru's dad said [don't remember his name] : "Even the most violent girl will become tender to the man they love".

 

She will show the submissive side of her "ONLY" to the man they love, while girl Hinata will show the submissive side of her to ANYONE.

Edited by Yyubie, 29 January 2016 - 02:53 AM.

[NeonRanger]

I agree with Alexander, but it isn't just noticed in the West. Japan is still having a battle with sexism. Women in power are not cast in a positive light (not negative either, but they question personality and lifestyle). 

 

Db84x was right in that Sakura-type characters are becoming less popular over submissive types over the years. IMO is has more to do with intimidation than anything. More men prefer a girl like Hinata that's been supportive since the beginning. Not only that, but she's attractive (except her eyes, lol) in body and looks and is not the type to argue much. Then you have Sakura who is much more demanding and you actually have to work for her attention. This is also very attractive to men as well. The problem is now lately people  in general are preferring soft- hearted over boisterous personalities. With Sakura, she's very loud and aggressive towards Naruto and she was submissive towards Sasuke. 

Edited by NeonRanger, 29 January 2016 - 03:45 AM.