54175 replies to this topic

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Just....just watch

....wtf? XD

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

[RulesofNature]

And shows how Studio Pierrot didn't give a damn about what Kishimoto had originally wanted to do, given we see some hints of it in the long haul, like how Sakura and Karin reacted when Naruto and Sasuke were dying as well as how if Hinata was planned to get together with Naruto, she just gives up when she trips on a rock and collapses while she still had TONS of Kurama's chakra going for her, even begging the dead Neji to save Naruto!

I mean, I have a colleague who is a Bleach fan and will talk about how the studio messed up Orihime's characterization early on and how this fed into the shipping wars. I used to be obsessed with Rumiko Takahashi's works, but there's no denying what happens when they get adapted for anime. Just look at this http://ranmarelated....ween-manga.html . Detective Conan, where they had to bring back Ai's sister just to kill her and act as motivation because they changed the ending to her case. Or there was Hideaki Anno adapting His and Her Circumstances, changing the plot halfway through to the point the original author wanted him to fired and he quit as a response. Not to mention other anime that change endings or even have one while the manga is still ongoing.

 

Makes me shudder to think what Dungeon Meshi, Shield Hero or Hamefura would have been like if they had anime with filler.

 

It just makes me think Naruto is the poster-child for a type of anime that just doesn't get made anymore because it's too expensive to do so. Back then, they could get away with these kinds of things because...well, they could justify them by saying they're selling to more general audiences. But now, as the industry becomes more oversatsurated and catering to more niche interests, arranging for 50 episodes to cover a series or multi-year anime for the most part aren't viable.  Naruto was everything that was wrong with anime back then, it's problems ones that have mostly died out...except for in it's spin-off.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Uhh... I am SO CONFUSED...

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I mean, I have a colleague who is a Bleach fan and will talk about how the studio messed up Orihime's characterization early on and how this fed into the shipping wars. I used to be obsessed with Rumiko Takahashi's works, but there's no denying what happens when they get adapted for anime. Just look at this http://ranmarelated....ween-manga.html . Detective Conan, where they had to bring back Ai's sister just to kill her and act as motivation because they changed the ending to her case. Or there was Hideaki Anno adapting His and Her Circumstances, changing the plot halfway through to the point the original author wanted him to fired and he quit as a response. Not to mention other anime that change endings or even have one while the manga is still ongoing.
 
Makes me shudder to think what Dungeon Meshi, Shield Hero or Hamefura would have been like if they had anime with filler.
 
It just makes me think Naruto is the poster-child for a type of anime that just doesn't get made anymore because it's too expensive to do so. Back then, they could get away with these kinds of things because...well, they could justify them by saying they're selling to more general audiences. But now, as the industry becomes more oversatsurated and catering to more niche interests, arranging for 50 episodes to cover a series or multi-year anime for the most part aren't viable.  Naruto was everything that was wrong with anime back then, it's problems ones that have mostly died out...except for in it's spin-off.

I hear that, Rules. And even some anime with filler that were popular still could be able to add some neat stuff to make it work. A good example is Inuyasha, even if some of it was odd for sure, but at the same time, there was some great stuff to do as well, as well as characters like Ayame and the Panther Tribe.

[RulesofNature]

I hear that, Rules. And even some anime with filler that were popular still could be able to add some neat stuff to make it work. A good example is Inuyasha, even if some of it was odd for sure, but at the same time, there was some great stuff to do as well, as well as characters like Ayame and the Panther Tribe.

Hell, I watched the first season of Legend of the Galactic Heroes. The original, not the new series, and I only dropped it. It had a lot of episodes that fleshed out stuff only mentioned briefly in the books (which I've read the entire series). That over-a-hundred-episodes OVA is a shining example filler doesn't have to be a bad word (I never finished it because 1) my laptop died, 2) Kissanime was performing worse and worse).

 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Hell, I watched the first season of Legend of the Galactic Heroes. The original, not the new series, and I only dropped it. It had a lot of episodes that fleshed out stuff only mentioned briefly in the books (which I've read the entire series). That over-a-hundred-episodes OVA is a shining example filler doesn't have to be a bad word (I never finished it because 1) my laptop died, 2) Kissanime was performing worse and worse).

 

 

In a case for me, even with some hiccups caused by its fillers, Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters was able to do some great filler for itself to make it expand differently from what was being done in the manga in my experience, as well as working more of the Yu-Gi-Oh! OCG/TCG and its rules while taking some liberties with card effects to differ from what they do IRL and such. I'm trying to think of any anime based on manga that have filler stuff I also have liked besides mentioning Yu-Gi-Oh! and Inuyasha as two big examples too.

[lupina]

I just remembered that Sakura actually said that Narutos' love for her was only the result of his rivaly with Sasuke.

This movie was such an Insult, I really wondered if the creators were even familiar with the source material.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I just remembered that Sakura actually said that Narutos' love for her was only the result of his rivaly with Sasuke.
This movie was such an Insult, I really wondered if the creators were even familiar with the source material.

The writers of the movie apparently never saw the series, neither watching the anime or reading the manga, Luminary. It's why things in The Last do NOT make a damn lick of sense like what Sakura said to Naruto about his feelings for her, or how other things were. But it's not like Studio Pierrot cared. All they wanted was to get what they wanted and they did, so they didn't care.

[lupina]

The writers of the movie apparently never saw the series, neither watching the anime or reading the manga, Luminary. It's why things in The Last do NOT make a damn lick of sense like what Sakura said to Naruto about his feelings for her, or how other things were. But it's not like Studio Pierrot cared. All they wanted was to get what they wanted and they did, so they didn't care.

 

Why am I not suprised.

What could've been archived with this movie:

 

- Show how Naruto transformes into a true leader

- Show how Naruto and Sakura matured emotionally

- Show how Hinata grows into the leader of her Clan

- Give Team 7 some screentime, show how Sasuke changed and matured

- Show the difference of Leadership between Kakashi and Tsunade

- Show how everyone ... enters a new chapter of their life. Make them Team leaders. Give them jobs. Maybe some left the village? Or joined? (Temari?)

 

What was archived:

- Naruto became "the worst scumbag" who was guilt tripped/brain washed into loving a girl he barely knew
- Hinata was given Sakuras' backstory and got reduced to a damsel in distress in a overly sexualized outfit

- Sakura ... well ... Sakura became ... some sort of plot decive that was supposed to make people belive in stupidiy and nonsense?

- Sasuke came to show his new Hobo-Outfit

- Kakashi was also allowed to give proof that he's still alive

- Scarf-kun was introduced and never heard from again

I don't remember much more, tbh. But it isn't really worth much more time, isn't it?
It has been so long ago and the older I get the more I'm amazed on how shallow this whole show really was and what it could've been if you just went through with what you've already established. But it dosen't matter anymore. We have Bolt and Salad now, right?

[Kagomaru]

 

Why am I not suprised.

What could've been archived with this movie:

 

- Show how Naruto transformes into a true leader

- Show how Naruto and Sakura matured emotionally

- Show how Hinata grows into the leader of her Clan

- Give Team 7 some screentime, show how Sasuke changed and matured

- Show the difference of Leadership between Kakashi and Tsunade

- Show how everyone ... enters a new chapter of their life. Make them Team leaders. Give them jobs. Maybe some left the village? Or joined? (Temari?)

 

What was archived:

- Naruto became "the worst scumbag" who was guilt tripped/brain washed into loving a girl he barely knew
- Hinata was given Sakuras' backstory and got reduced to a damsel in distress in a overly sexualized outfit

- Sakura ... well ... Sakura became ... some sort of plot decive that was supposed to make people belive in stupidiy and nonsense?

- Sasuke came to show his new Hobo-Outfit

- Kakashi was also allowed to give proof that he's still alive

- Scarf-kun was introduced and never heard from again

I don't remember much more, tbh. But it isn't really worth much more time, isn't it?
It has been so long ago and the older I get the more I'm amazed on how shallow this whole show really was and what it could've been if you just went through with what you've already established. But it dosen't matter anymore. We have Bolt and Salad now, right?

Don't forget that they ironically made Hinata into an even worse character by having her be more concerned over a damn scarf than her little sister. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Don't forget that they ironically made Hinata into an even worse character by having her be more concerned over a damn scarf than her little sister.

Oh yeah! And also making Sakura more or less a pathetic woman unable to move on from the terrible feelings she had for Sasuke and how he treated her, in spite of how "pure" her love for him is, which is still BS since she never had a real good reason to love him!

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 14 June 2022 - 06:59 AM.

[lupina]

Oh yeah! And also making Sakura more or less a pathetic woman unable to move on from the terrible feelings she had for Sasuke and how he treated her, in spite of how "pure" her love for him is, which is still BS since she never had a real good reason to love him!

This is something I've never understood. Why was she so attracted to him?
He was the popular guy and she wanted to be recognized by him. Ok. Typical childhood crush. But why? What was she thinking she'd gain out of this, in case he really did recognize her? Social status?

Why was she sooo desperate about being loved by a guy she barely knew and was emotionally distant? Did Sakura grew up in an absuive household? Was she emotionally neglected and thought that such behaviour was no big deal? Did she thought her "love" will heal him someday (Oh wait ... she actually thought that. LOL)

Why was she chosen as a bully victim? (Mentally stable children are NEVER picked!) And about something so superficial? Why does she care about looks so much?

 

This are the only valid reasons I can think of, honestly. The "Sakura was just a good person and wanted to save him from the darkness" explanation lacks just as much substance and, on top of that, is pretty self entitled. I understand Team 7 has been through a lot together and bonded through that. There is no way around it. But that guy ... he did not want to, nor could he have been saved by Sakura or her love. Why do you keep pushing yourself onto him?

 

De deeper you go, the more shallow it gets, and the more reasons you find that it would've made so much more sense for her to emotionally connect with Naruto, rather than Sasuke - if she was just a normal girl.

 

[BlueStarSaber]

The only reason I can think of is that still thinks sasuke is the one the complemented her forehead not naruto

[Bail o' Lies]

The only reason I can think of is that X still thinks sasuke is the one the complemented her forehead not naruto

Who?

 

If Sakura then yes that is likely the reason she fell in love with him. The story hints even after they got together in even Boruto that was the moment she fell in love with him. As well as, for her to move on to Naruto would require the truth coming out to break Sasuke's uninterested hold over her.

 

If the SS fans no. They know Naruto was the one to do it, but they ignore it because they like Sasuke more and like to fantasize about him.

 

This is something I've never understood. Why was she so attracted to him?
He was the popular guy and she wanted to be recognized by him. Ok. Typical childhood crush. But why? What was she thinking she'd gain out of this, in case he really did recognize her? Social status?

Why was she sooo desperate about being loved by a guy she barely knew and was emotionally distant? Did Sakura grew up in an absuive household? Was she emotionally neglected and thought that such behaviour was no big deal? Did she thought her "love" will heal him someday (Oh wait ... she actually thought that. LOL)

Why was she chosen as a bully victim? (Mentally stable children are NEVER picked!) And about something so superficial? Why does she care about looks so much?

 

This are the only valid reasons I can think of, honestly. The "Sakura was just a good person and wanted to save him from the darkness" explanation lacks just as much substance and, on top of that, is pretty self entitled. I understand Team 7 has been through a lot together and bonded through that. There is no way around it. But that guy ... he did not want to, nor could he have been saved by Sakura or her love. Why do you keep pushing yourself onto him?

 

De deeper you go, the more shallow it gets, and the more reasons you find that it would've made so much more sense for her to emotionally connect with Naruto, rather than Sasuke - if she was just a normal girl.

During the academy he was the popular guy all the girls wanted. If she got him that means she is better than all of them, even Ino. He was also cool, smart, rich, and handsome, so it was easy to have a crush on him. He was the best guy available girls wanted him and guys wanted to be him. Since, he never talked to anyone just being this cool mysterious handsome guy she could admire from afar without ever getting reject more than any of the other girls. 

 

The thing is, in chapter 3 she had a moment of doubt that Sasuke could ever find her attractive; especially with her huge forehead being her only noticeable feature. Then Naruto came in disguised as Sasuke and complimented her forehead, the one feature she felt no one could love. So, she fell in love with him at the moment. Again, for her to move on, the truth had to come out. 

 

If Naruto never did that, Sakura's crush would have remained a crush and the cold indifference he always showed her would have been seen as a rejection to her, eventually. Allowing her to move on much sooner and easier, since she would realize, he will never love her.

 

Instead, she thinks deep down he loves her but her awful comment about Naruto disgusted/upset him and his running to the bathroom was him being shy. So, she thinks she just has to be be near him devoted and remorseful. He will eventually he will open up return to the loving man during the time on the bench, she just has to stay devoted.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 29 June 2022 - 08:16 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

This is something I've never understood. Why was she so attracted to him?
He was the popular guy and she wanted to be recognized by him. Ok. Typical childhood crush. But why? What was she thinking she'd gain out of this, in case he really did recognize her? Social status?

Why was she sooo desperate about being loved by a guy she barely knew and was emotionally distant? Did Sakura grew up in an absuive household? Was she emotionally neglected and thought that such behaviour was no big deal? Did she thought her "love" will heal him someday (Oh wait ... she actually thought that. LOL)

Why was she chosen as a bully victim? (Mentally stable children are NEVER picked!) And about something so superficial? Why does she care about looks so much?

 

This are the only valid reasons I can think of, honestly. The "Sakura was just a good person and wanted to save him from the darkness" explanation lacks just as much substance and, on top of that, is pretty self entitled. I understand Team 7 has been through a lot together and bonded through that. There is no way around it. But that guy ... he did not want to, nor could he have been saved by Sakura or her love. Why do you keep pushing yourself onto him?

 

De deeper you go, the more shallow it gets, and the more reasons you find that it would've made so much more sense for her to emotionally connect with Naruto, rather than Sasuke - if she was just a normal girl.
 

 

Exactly, Lupina. And it sucks because Sakura even ignored times Naruto needed her early on, like in the Bell Test, where even as much as he ran around like an idiot, Naruto tried to do what he could without helping from the others, while Kakashi pointed out how Sakura had the chance to help Naruto since he was in fronmt of her, but she was more focused on Sasuke, who was further away, which can also be a metaphor to how things still are NOW.

[Bail o' Lies]

If people are wondering about how would it be different if Naruto never disguised himself and complimented Sakura's forehead.

 

Here is how I see it: When they were on the team she would have continue try earning Sasuke's affection but barely even able to receive any of his attention. This would depress her. Naruto would try to cheer her up with mix results. The Sasuke leaving the village scene may happen but less emotional, and the promise of a life time is unlikely. By part two, Sakura's feeling for Sasuke would have waned as both absence and lack of any affection when he was there weaken her feeling for him. Without the Promise, Naruto isn't held back from pursuing Sakura unless he does believe she is still holding the torch for Sasuke. If he doesn't feel that then those two are likely dating midway if not early in part two, and if he compliments her forehead she falls in love with him.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 15 June 2022 - 04:16 PM.

[lupina]

Instead, she thinks deep down he loves her but her awful comment about Naruto disgusted/upset him and his running to the bathroom was him being shy. So, she thinks she just has to be be near him devoted and remorseful. He will eventually he will open up return to the loving man during the time on the bench, she just has to stay devoted.

 

 

This is definetly the mentality of someone who suffered mental and/or physical abuse in their childhood....
You did not recive the propper love and care you were supposed to when you were the most vunrable (as a child!), so when someone is just remotely nice to you, you might fall madly in love because this might've been the best thing you've ever recived. You fit yourself to crap and are ready to endure whatever it takes just to get that tiny little breadcrumb again. What a miserable life. And they portray such behaviour as "Strong and desirable". URGH. 

 

.

Edited by lupina, 15 June 2022 - 03:15 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

This is definitely the mentality of someone who suffered mental and/or physical abuse in their childhood....

You did not receive the proper love and care you were supposed to when you were the most vulnerable (as a child!), so when someone is just remotely nice to you, you might fall madly in love because this might've been the best thing you've ever received. You fit yourself to crap and are ready to endure whatever it takes just to get that tiny little breadcrumb again. What a miserable life. And they portray such behavior as "Strong and desirable". URGH. 

Wasn't there a twitter post in general topic about that a few months back.

 

She suffered emotional abuse from her peers for her forehead making her insecure of her appearance when she was very young. Her best friend when she was young teased her about it and it was clear she was the lesser of the two in the friendship to the point she felt she had to break away and rival her to be her equal, at least in her own mind. Due to that she didn't have friends for a long period of her childhood.

 

She chase after a guy who didn't give her the time of day, but he did that with everyone, so it was fine.

 

She likely hated Naruto bugging her because he was unpopular and disliked and if she was friendly with him then she would suffer for that.

 

Not sure about the parents because we barely see anything. Her mother seems strict with her, and he father liked to make jokes.

 

Remember that Inner Sakura is Sakura's suppressed feelings, what she actually felt about a situation not some split personality. For most of part one, she is maintaining a façade to have people think positively of her, especially Sasuke. That slowly goes away during part one and is gone by part two because Naruto and Tsunade help her be herself.

 

Though I doubt there are many of the Naruto essay youtube videos doing any analysis like that.

 

In the end doesn't matter people are just inserting into her so they can have the dreamy bad boy fantasy. 

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 15 June 2022 - 10:00 PM.

[lupina]

 

Not sure about the parents because we barely see anything. Her mother seems strict with her, and he father liked to make jokes.

 

Controlling, over"protective" mother while the father takes a backseat. It would fit the pattern.

 

 

In the end doesn't matter people are just inserting into her so they can have the dreamy bad boy fantasy

 

It's kinda easy to do so ... Sakura has feelings, ambitions, wishes, etc. but they are very detached from a solid/established background/reasoning. You can only assume and I seriously wonder if this was done on purpose.
As the series went on, I was wondering when Naruto and Sakura will finally reach a point (everything pointed towards this!) where all mental armor falls of. When they would just stop acting strong in front of each other or being each others "wish fulfillers". A point, when their feelings and wishes finally connect FOR GOOD, without just throwing glimpses (like the Hug after the Pain fight or what Yamato said after Naruto turned 4-Tails). 
They have a lot of connection points besides just "bringing Sasuke back" and comic relief (which got pretty annoying after a while, because the Ship was not moving anywhere). They are just never adressed.

That reminds me ... why was Sakura so sure that Sasuke would understand her? In what way? He was so far away from her in EVERY aspect I can think about.

 

 

She likely hated Naruto bugging her because he was unpopular and disliked and if she was friendly with him then she would suffer for that.

 

It would've been great if the series dealth with this sort of superficiality. But it never did.
This is the only point where I give kudos to Part 1 Hinata.

Edited by lupina, 15 June 2022 - 06:37 PM.