DrK

No. i am just wondering. Have read the manga or watch the anime to make your claims or are you just making assumptions?

Bail I get that you put your time into writing about this and so you don't like it when people respond without properly reading what you wrote... But so what if people dismiss this series out of hand without properly experiencing it first? IMO it's not deserving of that level of respect and I don't think you would even disagree with that. This series is miserable. And I say that having read the manga. I stopped after the chapter with the rich kid and his collectible ninja cards.

Does it really matter if James wants to make a shallow/uninformed criticism of Sarada or any other aspect? Even if that WAS what happened.

Who loves it besides the NH shippers? Even when you take out the terrible couples, the ending overall was trash.

The pairings and the ending can't be looked at separately. It was trash because of them.

You can't force all 3 main characters (team 7) into roles they were never meant to be in and have anything positive come out of it. Every other character is connected to one or more of them in some way and so they fail to get a proper resolution because of the main 3 not getting a proper resolution.

Everyone should understand that nothing good will come out of something that is FORCED. Naruto forces himself to be with Hinata and so he is miserable. A good movie comes out and the studio forces a sequel to make more money and so it sucks. Kishi forces himself to do NHSS for whatever reason and his work as well as all offshoots of it suck (and I get the impression he wasn't even prescient enough to know that this would happen. For whatever reason.)

There aren't very many exceptions to this. If something good comes out of something that was forced then it's because someone with talent and passion for whatever it is got involved. No one like that works at SP.

Don't ever force anything creative that you do. It will suck.

Sakura was never really vain. The extent that she was vain was just a result of her trying to be a lower case version of Ino. She was deeply insecure and basically not proud of any aspect of herself. Other than those which Ino brought out and slowly built up piece by piece.

Ino was and is vain, and for good reason. Sarada's "Ino" is a walking fat joke. Who IIRC was also vain, but not for good reason.

Yes but that runs the risk of having NH from beginning and Sakura being ruined more it's why I'm worried if Naruto gets remade.

Illnevergiveup3 is correct. That would never happen. NH basically happened as a result of Kishi being scammed. SS is a little less fraudulent but he didn't want that either.

Oh yeah, BUT given how Narutos dream to be Hokage was ruined, whats to say if he did end up with Sakura that something wouldnt have happened to ruin THAT as well?? But I feel we wouldnt have the cluster **** we have now if things had been stuck with what the story showed us instead of just erasing it by Kishimoto thinking popularity would win over a factual story.

The pairings have kittening nothing to do with what happens in the Boruto anime or manga. If the same people were in charge of it, then it would still suck. Just Naruto and Sakura would probably be less ruined, but who knows really? Maybe even if you got the real pairings, they would show Hinata not being happy with Kiba and Naruto would feel guilty about it.

Kishi should not have allowed them to make this atrocious Boruto series in any event. He should have known that this would just poison it for everyone. Even more than it already was. At this point even the NH people are sick of Boruto because it is awful. So he even lost that 2% of the fanbase that him and SP were trying to appeal to.

Plus his new manga would have succeeded despite its mediocrity if he had not done that. Simply because his name would have still been worth a lot in Japan. He screwed up so badly.

that is the exact scene I am talking about.

Not to rain on your parade but I don't remember finding that very romantic. The vibe was basically just "Oh that doofus is still the same (even though he has and is now a dictator with no morals), not like the cool guy I married!"

She refused to acknowledge the way she felt about Naruto even back when it actually mattered. Why would she do it now? (though ironically she did come close to doing so in the less visually ugly but still appalling Boruto anime)

I am not sure to be honest. I saw the scan floating around and it kind of interested me. But I do not read the manga to know what came before or after it.

I read it once but my eyes burned too much from the horrific art style to continue. I actually think the scene you are referring to happened in the very first chapter though now that I think of it. Like he has this really dumb expression on his face and Sakura-chan with her dopey Uchiha crest on her back views him and is like *sigh*.

I get that some people are interested in it but the whole idea of those characters somehow being together in the Boruto verse disgusts me to be honest. They deserved to do it right. Not to mention that both were kittened over beyond repair and no justification for that would ever be believable. Short of all of it being a genjutsu.

I can't decide whether Kishi's career is more sad or more embarrassing.

To be honest the idea of a boy trying to win the affection of the girl -who had feelings for another guy- instead of her just falling in love with her at some point is what made the pairings interesting. Even if some felt it should be dropped because they identified with him too much and decided he should get the easy girl. Now its a destine princess so their won't be the giant pairing conflict, but the problem is that this is boring.

 

Oh, the nH fans love this and defend it constantly on twitter...at least those that read it.

You said Kishi was being tepid with it, and he was, but the thing is that that would have made it even better. It was (or seemed to be) BUILDING to something. And it could have been completely devastating. In a good way. Like with how the anime constantly inundates the viewer with sentimental flashbacks. There would have actually been LICENSE to do that. It would have been EARNED. And if he clearly locked it in before that, the effect would not have been the same.

Instead he made the resolution to his 15 years of work tepid instead. Just flat. You feel nothing. And the war arc was so tedious and boring. And the reader gets NOTHING for it.

It wasn't even rushed like Bleach. He just gave up at the last hurdle.

And if he really expected the Japanese fanbase to buy into his next manga, then I'm concerned for his sanity.

Oh that is kitten and they know it.

 

...

 

pff...yeah, it is so realistic that a girl would stay in love with a guy who abuses her physically and mentally, attempt to murder her multiple times, and this is even before they get married and have a kid to which he ignores the family, pays no bills, and just up and leaves.

I actually have no issues with that person's view because to me it is not particularly compelling either way. But irrespective of that (and once again) I cannot agree with engaging with it. You are never going to find an instance of me saying that Sakura would or should leave Sasuke or that staying with him fractures her character because she was already fractured. 

Sakura loving Sasuke was always uncomfortable and this was actually a THEME of the story. To reject it for the reason that it got FAR MORE uncomfortable is understandable, but it is never going to matter to them and honestly it doesn't even really matter to me.

Sakura was never a particularly realistic character... But in the end her behavior was kittening bizarre. I wish we knew what her problem was.

Wait, we do! It's that Hinata exists and her desires were given priority over everything else in the story. There is a metric ton of evidence for this now, so arguments should be centered around that.

Or maybe something else like her connection to Naruto... I like this one, not because it's the most convincing but because it is POIGNANT.

I think when most people use the term "realistic", what they really mean is that it is RELATABLE to them/their life in some way. And that is an assertion that can't be disproven as you don't know what's going on in their head.

But I digress. What this really is is a red herring.  I would just ignore the point or even surrender it. Arguing it amounts to a concession, because if you do so then there is the unspoken implication (whether or not you intend it) that NHSS/the ending has, at a minimum, face validity. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think this is what you want.

I went back and read through some of this thread and I have to say that the ham-handed way he seems to be handling the pairing in this is really sad in terms of what it implies about Naruto... I wonder if the NH editors/fanbase who caused this debacle notice or care about this at all?

And I admit I haven't read this (and don't really plan to) but honestly it doesn't seem like it would appeal to me. Though I do appreciate and like the interactions of NS (to the point that I wrote way too much about their significance)... And I know I might be completely alone on this from reading sentiments expressed in this thread (and many many others)...

But the dynamic of Sasuke is actually what I like THE MOST about them. Just the angst it creates for Sakura. The way she hates herself for doing so. The fact that Naruto could win for free by simply abandoning him but he won't and actually CAN'T... And that's less because of Sasuke being important to him as well but because that's simply not who he is.

What the final revelation for Sakura realizing she loves Naruto might have been like. And how freeing it would have been for her.  How much more comfortable and happy it would make her life.

And Naruto being gobsmacked that she actually did choose him which he never thought would happen. And NOT because of him being a hero (as in tool of a village dedicated to savage ninja practices)... But because he actually has value as a person, someone who's lovable (he's certainly not this anymore)... Being a person who someone as incredible as he thinks Sakura is could fall in love with... He wouldn't be able to deny his own value anymore.

All of that stuff is entirely dependent on Sasuke's presence and involvement... And these are not things that you find in just any old love triangle. IMO it's really cool and I don't think I would appreciate or even care about them that much if I was instead being constantly bashed over the head with "These two will definitely get together! Don't worry!" from the VERY BEGINNING.

To me, that sounds so GOD DAMN BORING in comparison. Just my $0.02.

Thank you. That is sweet.

This is why I love this place.

 

I do have to say it's going to be a rant. Even though I said back in 2015 that I was done with rants, I even called it "truly my last rant", this thing made me go back on my word because of how much it affected me. It destroyed me like Naruto did, only this time a lot worse.

If there's people out there who can literally destroy lives by confessing some insipid romantic feelings that they have, then maybe all the NH folk can take heart in possibly someday finding their dream girl! (or boy? idk.)

 

I also think when Sarada asked Sakura if she and Sasuke were really married, she was mad about the idea too that her supposed daughter (sure she raised her, but she isn't Sarada's mom, no matter what's said, Karin is since she has the umbilical cord AND DNA tests can be pretty damn accurate) had the gall to do that and just doesn't like to be reminded she didn't really "win" Sasuke, just like how she lost Naruto just because she didn't think deep down (if you ask me) she "deserved" him for hurting him. SO WHAT?!!

It was Karin's own umbilical cord. I think  So the DNA machine result had nothing to do with Sarada whatsoever.

But it doesn't matter to me if Sakura had one, ten, or zero kids with Sasuke. I don't acknowledge that Sakura as being the character I read, because it was nonsensical. She's a pathetic clown. Naruto is also a pitifully hypocritical clown.

Basically there was a reason why I made that one thread... I wanted to show that the ending wasn't something that SHOULDN'T have happened... but something that strictly WOULDN'T have happened.

But maybe I failed at that. But anyway, when someone approaches the postcanon materials in this way, making some allowance for Sakura being completely unreasonable, or whatever... All you're really doing is dignifying them.

The non-destroyed version of Sakura is just the only one that I care about. And Naruto as well. I don't care about some dude who kittens his pants making a shadow clone while Orochimaru experiments on kids.

You know this is my take, but Id rather Sakura go through a state of ptsd after Sasuke tried to kill her in the 5 Kage summit.

Narratively it would make sense because like Naruto, she wanted to try Sasuke and that moment shouldve left her questioning herself about what shes been doing. You know give her a reality check which I think wouldve been a good push for her character.

The only problem with that that I can see is that entire Iron Country ordeal was being framed as a reality check for Sakura already... And then Kishi decided to keep her head in the clouds.

How can you even compare this?
It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Greta Thunberg and asking "who is the better sports player?" How can you even do this? And instead of admitting that Greta is just not a sports player, they rather reverse argue to say "well, when was the last time Babe Ruth did anything for the environment?"

Like I said... Moving the goalposts.

If you choose to argue with someone who thinks this way (I don't recommend it), you just need to wait for the moment when they move the goalposts and call them out on doing so.

Like "If Michael Jordan is so great then why did he keep losing in the first round in the 80's?" News flash, the argument was (possibly) about Jordan being better than whatever player you like, not Jordan being better than God. He can lose and still be the best player potentially.

"If Sakura should be with Naruto then why did she hit Naruto and treat him badly?" News flash, she can treat Naruto badly on a few occasions and still be better than Hinata! The argument is Sakura being better than Hinata, not a hypothetical perfect love interest that never existed in the manga.

Just watch out for that.