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Aftermath of the Ending


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#41 jak123

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 04:50 PM

Exactly and also, sometimes we don't have the best eye when it comes to pairings. They should cater to their culture more not ours. Sometimes, to me NH fans in America and else where don't fully understand Sakura's character and so they bash her for it. In Japan they do and I believe that is why Sakura is liked there more.

Exactly. I understood it and while I didn't really like fangirl Sakura in Part 1, she became really good in part 2.



#42 winter-serenade

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 04:51 PM

Exactly and also, sometimes we don't have the best eye when it comes to pairings. They should cater to their culture more not ours. Sometimes, to me NH fans in America and else where don't fully understand Sakura's character and so they bash her for it. In Japan they do and I believe that is why Sakura is liked there more.


Speaking of culture and pairings, isn’t it common for the mother to keep the umbilical cord of her child? Karin kept Sarada’s umbilical cord... Why would Kishimoto implement this? What’s the point if Sakura is the mother? Why couldn’t she have the umbilical cord? Mother red herring, I suppose? Or am I getting something wrong here?

#43 DrK

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 04:52 PM

Speaking of culture and pairings, isn’t it common for the mother to keep the umbilical cord of her child? Karin kept Sarada’s umbilical cord... Why would Kishimoto implement this? What’s the point if Sakura is the mother? Why couldn’t she have the umbilical cord? Mother red herring, I suppose? Or am I getting something wrong here?

I think, but don't ask me to read that kitten again because I won't, that the idea was that that was actually Karin's umbilical cord, and the machine for whatever reason just said that the DNA matched Karin's without saying that it was an exact match. I think that's what was going on, anyway. It was all stupid, though.



#44 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 06:14 PM

Speaking of culture and pairings, isn’t it common for the mother to keep the umbilical cord of her child? Karin kept Sarada’s umbilical cord... Why would Kishimoto implement this? What’s the point if Sakura is the mother? Why couldn’t she have the umbilical cord? Mother red herring, I suppose? Or am I getting something wrong here?

 

Courtesy of Wikipedia via me Googling it;

"When the mother leaves the hospital, the umbilical cord is given to her. This Japanese custom is based upon the belief that the umbilical cord has a direct relationship to the health of the baby. ... Additionally, the Japanese believe that the umbilical cord is a symbol of the child's fate."

So there's the short of it. Effectively, Karin is Sarada's biological mother according to Japanese customs, and the fact too DNA tests hardly lie, outside of some misreading of the DNA used in the test.



#45 griff142

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 06:57 PM

Courtesy of Wikipedia via me Googling it;
"When the mother leaves the hospital, the [/size]umbilical cord is given to her. This [/size]Japanese custom is based upon the belief that the [/size]umbilical cord has a direct relationship to the health of the baby. ... Additionally, the [/size]Japanese believe that the [/size]umbilical cord is a symbol of the child's fate."
So there's the short of it. Effectively, Karin is Sarada's biological mother according to Japanese customs, and the fact too DNA tests hardly lie, outside of some misreading of the DNA used in the test.[/size]

Like I said, our cultures are very different and how we interpret characters is also different. NH fans in America should have interpreted like a Japanese fan and all the glaring flaws to people's characters they point out (aka Sakura), would have made more sense. Honestly I still think it wouldn't change things because people are stubborn.

Edited by griff142, 22 March 2018 - 06:58 PM.


#46 winter-serenade

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 07:02 PM

Well, that’s pretty confusing... In fact, that was pretty much half of the aftermath of the ending. Confusion. Whether it came from people who cared about pairings to people who couldn’t care less.

People who care about pairings: I thought Naruto loved Sakura? But Sasuke showed no interest in Sakura, and Naruto showed no interest in Hinata? Wait, Naruto’s feelings were fake? But he knows about true love, not ramen love?

People who don’t: Where did Kaguya come from? Why wasn’t she mentioned more prominently? I thought this story had a “hard work beats talent” story? How is what Obito did so easily redeemable? Why can’t Naruto just use Kage Bunshin no Jutsu to do paper work and spend time with his family?

It’s very strange, this ending.

#47 DrK

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 07:45 PM

People who don’t: Where did Kaguya come from? Why wasn’t she mentioned more prominently? I thought this story had a “hard work beats talent” story? How is what Obito did so easily redeemable? Why can’t Naruto just use Kage Bunshin no Jutsu to do paper work and spend time with his family?

There was a scene where he sent a bunshin to Himawari's birthday party but it vanished so the cake fell on the ground. Because apparently, he's not very good at using that jutsu! Or, well, they established that a clone can disappear from damage or running out of chakra. I guess he must have ran out of chakra! He must not have very much. How did such a weak ninja become the Hokage?



#48 winter-serenade

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 08:00 PM

There was a scene where he sent a bunshin to Himawari's birthday party but it vanished so the cake fell on the ground. Because apparently, he's not very good at using that jutsu! Or, well, they established that a clone can disappear from damage or running out of chakra. I guess he must have ran out of chakra! He must not have very much. How did such a weak ninja become the Hokage?


Once again, it makes little to no sense if we remember the fact he would use shadow clones to do different types of rigorous training all at once. Consistency where?

Edited by winter-serenade, 22 March 2018 - 08:01 PM.


#49 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 11:22 PM

I never knew anybody who liked Naruto and Hinata together. I don't see how they thought the international fanbase liked it. They shouldn't cater to us anyway. They need to cater to Japan and we are just extras. 

I used to know a few people that liked nH. They are exactly how you imagine how they would look. Youtube, and fan letters. You're right. Sadly, the big thing about Naruto was its international fanbase.

 

Exactly and also, sometimes we don't have the best eye when it comes to pairings. They should cater to their culture more not ours. Sometimes, to me NH fans in America and else where don't fully understand Sakura's character and so they bash her for it. In Japan they do and I believe that is why Sakura is liked there more.

They thought this was the one franchise that could live with its international fanbase alone. But they needed to pick the pairing that would give them the fanbase that would keep it going; they pick the wrong one. For two reason one) nH/SS were loud, and two) SP wanted them to be the fanbase because they were Hinata fans.

 

It's actually absurd how unpopular it is in Japan. There was some list with popularity #s and it MIGHT have made the top 30, barely. The interest in it was nonexistent. NS was not popular on the level of Kakashi and Iruka, but it had enough fans.

Most people In Japan from what I understand assumed that NS happening was a forgone conclusion. So even if they didn't like it they had accepted it long ago. So the pairing they like were generally what ifs they were playing around with instead. When it happened the Japanese were confused but were willing to give it a shot. Then everything that happened afterwards soured them to it almost immediately.

 

The thing with yaoi pairings, at least in Japan is that most DON'T expect them to become canon. It's just a fun little "what if?" thing for them to explore in doujinshi.

 

It's even funnier that SP tells people that they "knew" NH and SS were going to be canon from the beginning, yet they still promoted NS in many of their fillers, their openings and endings, oh, and let us not forget that OVA with Aqua Timez. It tells me that either they really didn't know what was going to happen (except maybe the higher ups) or they knew the end was going to create a fallout and they had to make all the extra NS stuff to keep the true fans on board until the end. 

 

Their approach to appealing to the "International" fanbase was also way off. They should have looked at $ signs and not internet youtube comments. If we're talking about popular international appeal, I've heard NS is popular in Spanish-speaking countries and Indonesia...that's already more than a 3rd of the world. So by that logic they should have went with NS. Granted, many of these countries are 3rd world as well, but popular media tends to do well enough among the people who can afford them.

Wheras in the US, we generally try to check out as many things as we can...for free.

I've been asking where people are from and what the general feel of the Naruto ending in the country for a while. From what I've seen. Only SP and the US has fanatical nH fans but the US pirate almost everything. Europe (mostly the western part) 'likes' nH, but if it didn't happen they would have been fine with it as well. Canada is mixed. Everywhere else do not like the ending. So because SP was so desperate for their goddess to get what they wanted her to have. They now have a series that only has strong support in a country where it is pirated, and everywhere else it is tolerated but most aren't interested in the franchise anymore.

 

NS was the default end pairing. So despite SP (animators and some of the writers) really wanting nH to happen unless they can convince everyone else they worked with to go for it; they had to make scenes to support NS. While Kishimoto was working on Naruto no one felt the need to rock the boat, once he decided to start ending the manga; they wanted to have a sequel that would have the biggest following to get the biggest profit. In comes SP convincing the editors to go with nH, and the editors convincing Kishimoto with letters and youtube videos.

 

Yeah it's INSANE how popular it is in Latin America. You always have a ton of Spanish speaking people commenting on fanworks. They deeply screwed up.

Shame they didn't look to there instead but they must have figured that most of the international fan would like what the Americans liked.

 

Speaking of culture and pairings, isn’t it common for the mother to keep the umbilical cord of her child? Karin kept Sarada’s umbilical cord... Why would Kishimoto implement this? What’s the point if Sakura is the mother? Why couldn’t she have the umbilical cord? Mother red herring, I suppose? Or am I getting something wrong here?

Yes, the normally the case. From what I recall it was a red herring to really convince people. Or he was seriously considering it, but SS fans quickly threaten a boycott so he backed down. 


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 March 2018 - 02:44 AM.


#50 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 01:07 AM

I used to know a few people that liked nH. They are exactly how you imagine how they would look. Youtube, and fan letters. You right. Sadly, the big thing about Naruto was its international fanbase.

 

That's so true, and so rough, buddy.



#51 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 01:51 AM

That's so true, and so rough, buddy.

I knew a few people the were Hinata fans, I was not friends with them.



#52 KClaws_2

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 08:56 AM

Once again, it makes little to no sense if we remember the fact he would use shadow clones to do different types of rigorous training all at once. Consistency where?

I've stopped trying to make sense of anything in this series a while ago. Every time I ask a question, it plays out like this:

 

 

I used to know a few people that liked nH. They are exactly how you imagine how they would look. Youtube, and fan letters. You're right. Sadly, the big thing about Naruto was its international fanbase.

 

They thought this was the one franchise that could live with its international fanbase alone. But they needed to pick the pairing that would give them the fanbase that would keep it going; they pick the wrong one. For two reason one) nH/SS were loud, and two) SP wanted them to be the fanbase because they were Hinata fans.

 

Most people In Japan from what I understand assumed that NS happening was a forgone conclusion. So even if they didn't like it they had accepted it long ago. So the pairing they like were generally what ifs they were playing around with instead. When it happened the Japanese were confused but were willing to give it a shot. Then everything that happened afterwards soured them to it almost immediately.

 

I've been asking where people are from and what the general feel of the Naruto ending in the country for a while. From what I've seen. Only SP and the US has fanatical nH fans but the US pirate almost everything. Europe (mostly the western part) 'likes' nH, but if it didn't happen they would have been fine with it as well. Canada is mixed. Everywhere else do not like the ending. So because SP was so desperate for their goddess to get what they wanted her to have. They now have a series that only has strong support in a country where it is pirated, and everywhere else it is tolerated but most aren't interested in the franchise anymore.

 

NS was the default end pairing. So despite SP (animators and some of the writers) really wanting nH to happen unless they can convince everyone else they worked with to go for it; they had to make scenes to support NS. While Kishimoto was working on Naruto no one felt the need to rock the boat, once he decided to start ending the manga; they wanted to have a sequel that would have the biggest following to get the biggest profit. In comes SP convincing the editors to go with nH, and the editors convincing Kishimoto with letters and youtube videos.

 

Shame they didn't look to there instead but they must have figured that most of the international fan would like what the Americans liked.

 

Yes, the normally the case. From what I recall it was a red herring to really convince people. Or he was seriously considering it, but SS fans quickly threaten a boycott so he backed down. 

Please elaborate on the NH description.

 

As far as international fans go, piracy isn't the main problem. It seems to be Japan's reluctance to adapt to future technology (ironic given how they are generally viewed as being very forward thinking technologically speaking). Streaming and downloading makes it so much easier for us to check out a series, and now it can be done legally. However, for most series, this at best meets the production cost of the series. They want to sell tangible products in order to make a profit. However, only hardcore fans are still buying DVDs and Bluray. Others are turning to digital. I myself have practically converted over to digital media; I have so much anime on my cloud and I haven't made any physical purchases in years.

There's also the difference in what kind of profit both Japan and the US get. Japan has always been about profiting off of high price per unit cost. The norm used to be $30 an episode, a model that clearly would never work in America. Ironically, Japan tells to sell LESS anime in their homeland, but make up for it with high unit costs. Conversely, the US sells MORE anime, but to compete with mainstream series they sell the episodes at a standard price, and most of that money to my knowledge goes towards the licensing companies. They have the nightmare of dubbing the anime, replacing text, reformatting the episodes so you can get 4 episodes a DVD instead of 2, and make enough money to not only pay the new voice actors, but pay the licensing fee and STILL turn a profit. Therefore the parent company sees barely any of that money outside of the fees which they were being paid anyway. So I find this "appeal to the international fans" approach flawed.

 

Not only that, but they assumed views on youtube/synopsis on Reddit/downloads=people who will pay for this. But it's more complicated then that. Many might enjoy the series, but not enough to buy it. Others may not even like it that much, but will give scenes a view because it has something they like. Kind of like me and ecchi anime; I may enjoy LOOKING at them from time to time and see how absurd the plot is to justify a nude scene, but I'm not going to pay for it because I already have a sense the show is crap to begin with. 

 

They should have stuck with their Japanese fanbase. They bought the most stuff from them to begin with, and if for some odd reason THEIR tastes were so much at odds with OURS (well, the other "THEIR" but you get the point), they would have done fine and the haters would have gotten over it soon enough. 
 

DragonBall has had huge success internationally so much that they added the Buu saga to DragonBall Kai, but it's not like they pulled new material out of their arse to suddenly have the characters become ridiculously more American. Japan is still footing most of that bill and it's mostly because they STILL have fans there they can also appeal to the rest of the world.



#53 James S Cassidy

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 05:53 PM

The different between Naruto and Bleach. Naruto was considered the international best seller, and Kishimoto was a company man. While Bleach was a international seller; Kubo argued with his editors.

 

They wanted that international fanbase because they could always get another manga to hit the domestic markets. They knew nH was not popular in Japan beyond the otaku in SP, but they believed that it was popular in the States therefor internationally. The reason Boruto is still going is pride, and it what's holding SP up till another series takes off to support it (black clover.)

So the difference is basically favoritism. Hinata was not in Bleach and if she was they probably would have abused Bleach as a means.
 

 

It's actually absurd how unpopular it is in Japan. There was some list with popularity #s and it MIGHT have made the top 30, barely. The interest in it was nonexistent. NS was not popular on the level of Kakashi and Iruka, but it had enough fans.

NS may not be the most popular pairing in the Japan, but it is the most popular Hetero-pairing in Japan which says something about it.

I still find funny that Kishimoto himself once said in the interview that Shikamaru wasn't going to have a love-life and yet ShikaTema is the ONLY pairing 100% of the fandom agrees on. Is that what they call Irony?


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#54 griff142

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 06:27 PM

So the difference is basically favoritism. Hinata was not in Bleach and if she was they probably would have abused Bleach as a means.
 
 


NS may not be the most popular pairing in the Japan, but it is the most popular Hetero-pairing in Japan which says something about it.
I still find funny that Kishimoto himself once said in the interview that Shikamaru wasn't going to have a love-life and yet ShikaTema is the ONLY pairing 100% of the fandom agrees on. Is that what they call Irony?

Exactly, the closest character in Bleach that resembles Hinata is Orihime but she had a more significant role in her manga than Hinata did so she didn't need her hand held like Hinata.

NS is only the favorite hetero- pairing is because Japan like their yaoi pairings but it is mostly a fanfic pairing and they know it, which a guy like you and everybody else here knows it too. NS is the most popular, realistic pairing in Japan.

Yeah it doesn't surprise me Kishi contradicts himself with that with Shikamaru. The ending everybody had to be with someone. Even Orchimaru got with someone and had a kid, like what the heck?

#55 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 07:35 PM

I imagined That NH fans would look like Bill and Ted or Beavis and Butthead.

509356167_759751.gif?4


#56 Frankie

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 01:32 AM

I imagined That NH fans would look like Bill and Ted or Beavis and Butthead.


*Snorts* Heh heh, you said butthead!

#57 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 03:49 AM

*Snorts* Heh heh, you said butthead!

*They walk in Kohona for some Weird reason. They see Hinata and her boobs.*

Beavis:Whoa, check it out Butthead. This chick has big boobs.*Butthead sees Hinata lying down after seeing Naruto.

Butthead:uh yeah but she looks dead. Heh heh heh. Let's check that pink haired chicked that just slapped us.

Edited by NaruSaku fan in Kentucky, 26 March 2018 - 03:50 AM.

509356167_759751.gif?4


#58 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:18 AM

Please elaborate on the NH description.

 

As far as international fans go, piracy isn't the main problem. It seems to be Japan's reluctance to adapt to future technology (ironic given how they are generally viewed as being very forward thinking technologically speaking). Streaming and downloading makes it so much easier for us to check out a series, and now it can be done legally. However, for most series, this at best meets the production cost of the series. They want to sell tangible products in order to make a profit. However, only hardcore fans are still buying DVDs and Bluray. Others are turning to digital. I myself have practically converted over to digital media; I have so much anime on my cloud and I haven't made any physical purchases in years.

There's also the difference in what kind of profit both Japan and the US get. Japan has always been about profiting off of high price per unit cost. The norm used to be $30 an episode, a model that clearly would never work in America. Ironically, Japan tells to sell LESS anime in their homeland, but make up for it with high unit costs. Conversely, the US sells MORE anime, but to compete with mainstream series they sell the episodes at a standard price, and most of that money to my knowledge goes towards the licensing companies. They have the nightmare of dubbing the anime, replacing text, reformatting the episodes so you can get 4 episodes a DVD instead of 2, and make enough money to not only pay the new voice actors, but pay the licensing fee and STILL turn a profit. Therefore the parent company sees barely any of that money outside of the fees which they were being paid anyway. So I find this "appeal to the international fans" approach flawed.

 

Not only that, but they assumed views on youtube/synopsis on Reddit/downloads=people who will pay for this. But it's more complicated then that. Many might enjoy the series, but not enough to buy it. Others may not even like it that much, but will give scenes a view because it has something they like. Kind of like me and ecchi anime; I may enjoy LOOKING at them from time to time and see how absurd the plot is to justify a nude scene, but I'm not going to pay for it because I already have a sense the show is crap to begin with. 

 

They should have stuck with their Japanese fanbase. They bought the most stuff from them to begin with, and if for some odd reason THEIR tastes were so much at odds with OURS (well, the other "THEIR" but you get the point), they would have done fine and the haters would have gotten over it soon enough. 
 

DragonBall has had huge success internationally so much that they added the Buu saga to DragonBall Kai, but it's not like they pulled new material out of their arse to suddenly have the characters become ridiculously more American. Japan is still footing most of that bill and it's mostly because they STILL have fans there they can also appeal to the rest of the world.

This was in high-school but their were two types of Hinata fans I saw for both sexes the casual (naruto was only just falling out of popularity), and the fanatical. The casual were the people that still watched Toonami though it had pretty much devolved into only Naruto by that point. The were regular people and nerds that just thought that hinata was shy and that it would be nice if she and Naruto got together. The fanatics were even greater weirdos then I was who wore their resentment of life on their shoulders. They saw Naruto/Hinata as their dream girl/self, and Sakura as either the kitten that didn't put out for them leaving them a virgin or the girl that stole the boy that was rightfully theirs. I saw far more casuals then the fanatics growing up, but online the fanatics became the face.

 

As for Dragonball we live in a time after it was revitalize and we are anime fans so it hard to remember that their was a time after it was no longer on toonami that it was no longer popular. Yes there were still fanatical fans that worshiped it but that doesn't mean it was making that much profit. For example Xenoverse was the first financially successful dragonball video game in years when it came out. In fact I believe that both One Piece and Naruto surpassed Dragonball manga sales at one point in both Foreign and Domestic markets as well. Also at the time they were contemplating a Naruto sequel either Toriyama hadn't commit to reviving Dragonball, or they weren't sure that it would be successful. Not only that but even they were convince that Dragonball revived would be successful; SP wasn't doing the anime, and WSJ wasn't doing the Super manga, so neither of them would see sales in their products that they would get from a Naruto sequel. So off they went to do a Naruto sequel, and picking what they feel was the pairing that would please the most amount of international fans so they see more sales & profit.

 

Of course ending Naruto caused a vacuum that was quickly filled both in Japan and internationally by new series such as Attack of Titans, Overlord, Black Clover, One Punch Man, My Hero Academy, and the revived Dragonball.

 

Also yes, the focus on the international market but completely sacrificing the domestic market sounds insane. But it was the only way for the nH at SP and the editors to convince everyone to go with it, and they had spent years convincing their bosses that the international fanbase was huge enough to make up for it.

 

 

So the difference is basically favoritism. Hinata was not in Bleach and if she was they probably would have abused Bleach as a means.
 

NS may not be the most popular pairing in the Japan, but it is the most popular Hetero-pairing in Japan which says something about it.

I still find funny that Kishimoto himself once said in the interview that Shikamaru wasn't going to have a love-life and yet ShikaTema is the ONLY pairing 100% of the fandom agrees on. Is that what they call Irony?

Exactly, the closest character in Bleach that resembles Hinata is Orihime but she had a more significant role in her manga than Hinata did so she didn't need her hand held like Hinata.

 

NS is only the favorite hetero- pairing is because Japan like their yaoi pairings but it is mostly a fanfic pairing and they know it, which a guy like you and everybody else here knows it too. NS is the most popular, realistic pairing in Japan.

Yeah it doesn't surprise me Kishi contradicts himself with that with Shikamaru. The ending everybody had to be with someone. Even Orchimaru got with someone and had a kid, like what the heck?

Also Orihime was not the popular girl in the fanbase that award goes to Rukia. So even if some clowns at SP tried that they would have their collective head chewed off. Then Kubo did have her end up with Ichigo. The Irony.

 

Everyone accepted it as the end pairing except for a few people that eventually worked on Naruto.

 

I think everyone agreed that it was going to happen, hell Shikamaru even stated his goal was to marry and have two kids, and Kishimoto just said that so he wouldn't seem so predictable.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 28 March 2018 - 08:26 PM.


#59 Yyubie

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 10:20 AM

This was in high-school but their were two types of Hinata fans I saw for both sexes the casual (naruto was only just falling out of popularity), and the fanatical. The casual were the people that still watched Toonami though it had pretty much devolved into only Naruto by that point. The were regular people and nerds that just thought that hinata was shy and that it would be nice if she and Naruto got together. The fanatics were even greater weirdos then I was who wore their resentment of life on their shoulders. They saw Naruto/Hinata as their dream girl/self, and Sakura as either the kitten that didn't put out for them leaving them a virgin or the girl that stole the boy that was rightfully theirs. I saw far more casuals then the fanatics growing up, but online the fanatics became the face.

You forgot about the other group of Hinata fans , the group that got friendzoned by the first girl they like. People like Sawyer .... who obviously wants revenge and instantly hate any girl or character that have similarities with the girl that rejected him ....

People like this should stop , quit being reviewer .... because they are kids who can't grow up and be a professional. All their judgement is clouded by personal feelings.


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An out of control man needs a strong woman to control him.
And even a violent woman will become soft and tender to the man she love.


#60 KClaws_2

KClaws_2

    Chakra Tree Climber

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 03:32 PM

If I were to meet those people, I would straight up tell them "They're not the reason you were rejected...you are." 

 

Think about it. If you are bitter after all these years for some girl in High School rejecting you, she saw who you really were coming a mile away and said "No Thanks." If anything, you should be lucky you got "Friend-Zoned". At least being friends ain't a bad thing, but if you can't accept that, that goes out the window as well.






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