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#51501 James S Cassidy

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 04:37 PM

Id like to add about Orihime specifically that she was a much better developed character then Hinata, She had actual plot points away from Ichigo, her entire existence does not revolve around ichigo. and her removal from the story would cause some plot holes, 

 

I can say I would have preferred Rukia and Ichigo as a couple but I can as a reader see where Ichigo and Orihime had actual relationship development and where their relationship took solid progressive steps forward throughout the story and wasnt just dropped on peoples heads out of nowhere

She was much better developed. Essentially, she is what Hinata could have been in the Naruto story, but yet...Orihime is HATED by the Bleach community while Hinata is loved.

Every time I see posts about Bleach they all say "OMG, Orihime is so useless. All she is is boobs and a damsel," but Hinata is loved.

That's why I can't get my head around it.
Why do people love Hinata so much? Whatever reason people give, it is never consistent when compared to how they feel to similar characters.
"They love Hinata because she has big boobs," but they hate Orihime because she is big boobs.
"They love Hinata because she was loyal to Naruto," but they hate the fact that Orihime loves Ichigo since the beginning.
"They love HInata because she is shy," while they hate Orihime because she is reserved.

Orihime is everything that Hinata could have been and they hate her in comparison.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 19 August 2019 - 06:32 PM.

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#51502 catsi563

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 05:27 PM

I think part of it may be Orihimes character development.

 

In many ways Hinata is a blank slate. Shes defined by one singular characteristic; namely her devotion to Naruto.

 

but beyond that like I said blank slate. She has no other development or plot points. take her out of the manga and replace her with generic hyuga girl #2 and you would literal see the story of Naruto not skip a beat

 

so because shes that blank slate, the people that worship her are able to transplant their own feelings and desires onto her character because theres so much room for interpretation. In many ways shes an incels dream. 


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#51503 Derock

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 05:48 PM

I think part of it may be Orihimes character development.

 

In many ways Hinata is a blank slate. Shes defined by one singular characteristic; namely her devotion to Naruto.

 

but beyond that like I said blank slate. She has no other development or plot points. take her out of the manga and replace her with generic hyuga girl #2 and you would literal see the story of Naruto not skip a beat

 

so because shes that blank slate, the people that worship her are able to transplant their own feelings and desires onto her character because theres so much room for interpretation. In many ways shes an incels dream. 

 

Who will like a character who is a blank state and one-dimensional/characteristic? It calls automatic, "BORING!"


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#51504 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 06:05 PM

 

Who will like a character who is a blank state and one-dimensional/characteristic? It calls automatic, "BORING!"

 

As someone who uses a lot of imagination, Derock, I gotta agree with you. SOmeone who's a blank slate and one-dimensional IS boring!



#51505 James S Cassidy

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 06:31 PM

I think part of it may be Orihimes character development.

 

In many ways Hinata is a blank slate. Shes defined by one singular characteristic; namely her devotion to Naruto.

 

but beyond that like I said blank slate. She has no other development or plot points. take her out of the manga and replace her with generic hyuga girl #2 and you would literal see the story of Naruto not skip a beat

 

so because shes that blank slate, the people that worship her are able to transplant their own feelings and desires onto her character because theres so much room for interpretation. In many ways shes an incels dream. 

I think this is probably the only thing that comes close to the real answer. She is such a blank slate that people love self-inserting her "obsessive-ness" into her and using that to fulfill their own fantasies. Case and point, look at the abridged series of Naruto and how MasakoX made HInata say "Sorry, Naruto, but I am going out with MasakoX"

We here can definitly say why we like Sakura, but we also admit she has issues that should have been fixed. In fact, we are insulted that she was reduced down to pairing fodder because we saw her as so much more. (Many Pro-enders say that if you are a true fan of Sakura, then you want her to be Sasuke because that is what she wanted. I make the argument for being a fan for Naruto means you want him to be with Sakura, but then they once again brush that off which means, by their own logic, I have proven they are not NH fans because there is no "Naruto" they worship. They only care about the "H" in NH.)

These Hinata fans seems to insert facts they want rather than use the facts that are there.
 

 

 

Who will like a character who is a blank state and one-dimensional/characteristic? It calls automatic, "BORING!"

Yeah, but these people want to believe Hinata is their love interest. That Hinata loves them and they can make her anyway they want.

Maybe behind the shy exterior she is a sex goddess in their eyes. Behind the shy "N-N-Naruto-kun" she wants a gangbang so hard with tons of Naruto clones and just be this.....well, you can fill in the rest. That's what they want. It is not the reality, but the fantasy they crave. Dare I say, we sometimes want that too, but we are more conservative about it. We don't say "this is the canon because we want it to be." We say "this is the canon because that is how it happened."

 


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#51506 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 06:54 PM

She was much better developed. Essentially, she is what Hinata could have been in the Naruto story, but yet...Orihime is HATED by the Bleach community while Hinata is loved.
Every time I see posts about Bleach they all say "OMG, Orihime is so useless. All she is is boobs and a damsel," but Hinata is loved.
That's why I can't get my head around it.
Why do people love Hinata so much? Whatever reason people give, it is never consistent when compared to how they feel to similar characters.
"They love Hinata because she has big boobs," but they hate Orihime because she is big boobs.
"They love Hinata because she was loyal to Naruto," but they hate the fact that Orihime loves Ichigo since the beginning.
"They love HInata because she is shy," while they hate Orihime because she is reserved.
Orihime is everything that Hinata could have been and they hate her in comparison.

appealingly fairness doesn't exist. Would it be shocking if Sakura was made 8th hokage in bolt.
Also Sakura hate makes no sense when people like danzo, orochimaru, madara and obito are characters especially danzo.
  

I think part of it may be Orihimes character development.
 
In many ways Hinata is a blank slate. Shes defined by one singular characteristic; namely her devotion to Naruto.
 
but beyond that like I said blank slate. She has no other development or plot points. take her out of the manga and replace her with generic hyuga girl #2 and you would literal see the story of Naruto not skip a beat
 
so because shes that blank slate, the people that worship her are able to transplant their own feelings and desires onto her character because theres so much room for interpretation. In many ways shes an incels dream.

at least orihime has a personality and an identity outside ichigo we see her be friends with others namely rukia and she has a good drive to want to help but needs work to help.

I think this is probably the only thing that comes close to the real answer. She is such a blank slate that people love self-inserting her "obsessive-ness" into her and using that to fulfill their own fantasies. Case and point, look at the abridged series of Naruto and how MasakoX made HInata say "Sorry, Naruto, but I am going out with MasakoX"
We here can definitly say why we like Sakura, but we also admit she has issues that should have been fixed. In fact, we are insulted that she was reduced down to pairing fodder because we saw her as so much more. (Many Pro-enders say that if you are a true fan of Sakura, then you want her to be Sasuke because that is what she wanted. I make the argument for being a fan for Naruto means you want him to be with Sakura, but then they once again brush that off which means, by their own logic, I have proven they are not NH fans because there is no "Naruto" they worship. They only care about the "H" in NH.)
These Hinata fans seems to insert facts they want rather than use the facts that are there.
 
 


Yeah, but these people want to believe Hinata is their love interest. That Hinata loves them and they can make her anyway they want.
Maybe behind the shy exterior she is a sex goddess in their eyes. Behind the shy "N-N-Naruto-kun" she wants a gangbang so hard with tons of Naruto clones and just be this.....well, you can fill in the rest. That's what they want. It is not the reality, but the fantasy they crave. Dare I say, we sometimes want that too, but we are more conservative about it. We don't say "this is the canon because we want it to be." We say "this is the canon because that is how it happened."

Canon in Naruto means nothing since the last undid the whole canon.

#51507 KClaws_2

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Posted Yesterday, 10:56 AM

I think part of it may be Orihimes character development.
 
In many ways Hinata is a blank slate. Shes defined by one singular characteristic; namely her devotion to Naruto.
 
but beyond that like I said blank slate. She has no other development or plot points. take her out of the manga and replace her with generic hyuga girl #2 and you would literal see the story of Naruto not skip a beat
 
so because shes that blank slate, the people that worship her are able to transplant their own feelings and desires onto her character because theres so much room for interpretation. In many ways shes an incels dream.

  
I still don’t get how that makes her appealing. There’s NOTHING there, and she’s into Naruto, not them. We all have our biases on how certain characters are to us, but blank slates are no fun. You have to do all the work the author was supposed to.

I think this is probably the only thing that comes close to the real answer. She is such a blank slate that people love self-inserting her "obsessive-ness" into her and using that to fulfill their own fantasies. Case and point, look at the abridged series of Naruto and how MasakoX made HInata say "Sorry, Naruto, but I am going out with MasakoX"
We here can definitly say why we like Sakura, but we also admit she has issues that should have been fixed. In fact, we are insulted that she was reduced down to pairing fodder because we saw her as so much more. (Many Pro-enders say that if you are a true fan of Sakura, then you want her to be Sasuke because that is what she wanted. I make the argument for being a fan for Naruto means you want him to be with Sakura, but then they once again brush that off which means, by their own logic, I have proven they are not NH fans because there is no "Naruto" they worship. They only care about the "H" in NH.)
These Hinata fans seems to insert facts they want rather than use the facts that are there.
 
 


Yeah, but these people want to believe Hinata is their love interest. That Hinata loves them and they can make her anyway they want.
Maybe behind the shy exterior she is a sex goddess in their eyes. Behind the shy "N-N-Naruto-kun" she wants a gangbang so hard with tons of Naruto clones and just be this.....well, you can fill in the rest. That's what they want. It is not the reality, but the fantasy they crave. Dare I say, we sometimes want that too, but we are more conservative about it. We don't say "this is the canon because we want it to be." We say "this is the canon because that is how it happened."

I just wish they would come out and admit that they only like Hinata for her sex appeal (which in my opinion, she never had any).

It really feels like these so-called fans can not distinguish between fantasy and reality. I don’t know whether it is because most of these outspoken fans are teenagers still growing up, or if these are adults with serious problems. Probably a bit of both.

Honestly, it really feels like a no-win situation these days when it comes to female characters. A female character isn’t a powerhouse, people want her written off without any chance of improving. A female is strong, suddenly she is a Mary Sue and it’s part of some feminist agenda. Female is rather perfect in some way, people want her to go through some struggle or reveal skeletons in her closet. Other female has real-life character flaws, suddenly she’s a horrible person who deserves to be murdered and raped, in that order. Female looks rather plain or even athletic, people will poke fun at the flat-chested kitten. Female character is curvy, she’s called a slut.

Can’t there be some sort of middle ground with all of these traits?

#51508 jak123

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Posted Yesterday, 01:45 PM

 A female is strong, suddenly she is a Mary Sue and it’s part of some feminist agenda. 

The only reason people think like that is because the constant push for "strong female characters" and they just happen to be mary sues because those people don't understand that a legit "strong" character has both strengths and weaknesses. Also, most of the other types you describe are all slammed by the same people who constantly demand that all females characters must be "strong". 



#51509 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted Yesterday, 04:59 PM

The only reason people think like that is because the constant push for "strong female characters" and they just happen to be mary sues because those people don't understand that a legit "strong" character has both strengths and weaknesses. Also, most of the other types you describe are all slammed by the same people who constantly demand that all females characters must be "strong". 

 

Amen to that. It's why I feel Wonder Woman for the DCEU did things right for a strong female character, because we see even with Diana's drive to want to protect people when she's on the battlefields of World War I, that she is bothered by what happens with Ares and how it doesn't stop the war, and how everything else shapes her to be as she is currently.

 

Captain Marvel had that a bit too, but I also feel it felt a little more forced SOMETIMES, but not all the time. Not the best MCU movie, but it's enjoyable at least.



#51510 James S Cassidy

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Posted Yesterday, 05:27 PM

  
I still don’t get how that makes her appealing. There’s NOTHING there, and she’s into Naruto, not them. We all have our biases on how certain characters are to us, but blank slates are no fun. You have to do all the work the author was supposed to.

I just wish they would come out and admit that they only like Hinata for her sex appeal (which in my opinion, she never had any).

It really feels like these so-called fans can not distinguish between fantasy and reality. I don’t know whether it is because most of these outspoken fans are teenagers still growing up, or if these are adults with serious problems. Probably a bit of both.

Honestly, it really feels like a no-win situation these days when it comes to female characters. A female character isn’t a powerhouse, people want her written off without any chance of improving. A female is strong, suddenly she is a Mary Sue and it’s part of some feminist agenda. Female is rather perfect in some way, people want her to go through some struggle or reveal skeletons in her closet. Other female has real-life character flaws, suddenly she’s a horrible person who deserves to be murdered and raped, in that order. Female looks rather plain or even athletic, people will poke fun at the flat-chested kitten. Female character is curvy, she’s called a slut.

Can’t there be some sort of middle ground with all of these traits?

As Jak said, the very people who want "strong female characters" are the same people that keep saying that women are weak pathetic and the only way women can be strong is if men are brought down a peg and shown to be evil A-holes that are extremely sexist in every way and are stereotypical that you wonder if these people ever met a real male in the street before.

Wonder Woman is the good example of a women done right. She is strong and can do thing on her own, but never once put down the men in her group because "man are bad, wahmen forever" ideologies that are plaguing the industry. Steve Trevor is still commended for his valor despite not having the same powers and Diana respects him and his sacrifice. This is unlike Captain Marvel which all she seems to want to talk about is smashing the patriarchy, but doesn't really do anything. She is super powerful, but dos nothing really useful with it while making excuses.

"There are other planets that are in need of people."

Yeah, but I think when the whole universe is at stake you can put smaller stuff on the back burner or you won't have any planets at all. Thanos has been wrecking planets for a REALLY long time and you only NOW notice it? What the hell were you doing the whole time? Where was she when Xander was under attack by Ronin? Where was she when the Chitari were on Earth? Where was she when Ego was causing issues on MULTIPLE PLANETS?! Apparently, she was nowhere to be found and no explaining why other than "I was taking care of other things."

It is ridiculous and sad.

This is why I hate Rey in Star Wars too. She has no real formal training. She basically just becomes that good for no reason and the producers and directors themselves literally say "It is because she is a woman and the force is now female."

This society....this culture confuses me. I love Sakura because she was strong, but not flawless and she overcame so much, but apparently I am the one being sexist because I didn't support the useless big boobed, no brain bimbo who only defining feature was being subservient to a man. Is there a gas leak? Did I fall into the twilight zone or something? Why am I sexist cause I wanted to treat a women equally and wanted her to be realistic and independent?


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#51511 Nostradamus

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Posted Yesterday, 07:50 PM

 

Amen to that. It's why I feel Wonder Woman for the DCEU did things right for a strong female character, because we see even with Diana's drive to want to protect people when she's on the battlefields of World War I, that she is bothered by what happens with Ares and how it doesn't stop the war, and how everything else shapes her to be as she is currently.

 

Captain Marvel had that a bit too, but I also feel it felt a little more forced SOMETIMES, but not all the time. Not the best MCU movie, but it's enjoyable at least.

Take a look at this:

Perfect role model. /s


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#51512 jak123

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Posted Yesterday, 08:06 PM

Take a look at this:

Perfect role model. /s

That was a combination of Carol Danvers just generally being a poorly written character ever since taking up the CM mantle + Brie Larson being a terrible actress. It also didn't help that anyone who criticized the movie was called a sexist troll. I'm honestly glad she didn't play a major role in Endgame. 



#51513 VanitasDS76491

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Posted Today, 01:25 AM

That was a combination of Carol Danvers just generally being a poorly written character ever since taking up the CM mantle + Brie Larson being a terrible actress. It also didn't help that anyone who criticized the movie was called a sexist troll. I'm honestly glad she didn't play a major role in Endgame.

Or we wouldn't have a awesome movie if she was in more of it.

#51514 VanitasDS76491

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Posted Today, 01:26 AM

As Jak said, the very people who want "strong female characters" are the same people that keep saying that women are weak pathetic and the only way women can be strong is if men are brought down a peg and shown to be evil A-holes that are extremely sexist in every way and are stereotypical that you wonder if these people ever met a real male in the street before.
Wonder Woman is the good example of a women done right. She is strong and can do thing on her own, but never once put down the men in her group because "man are bad, wahmen forever" ideologies that are plaguing the industry. Steve Trevor is still commended for his valor despite not having the same powers and Diana respects him and his sacrifice. This is unlike Captain Marvel which all she seems to want to talk about is smashing the patriarchy, but doesn't really do anything. She is super powerful, but dos nothing really useful with it while making excuses.
"There are other planets that are in need of people."
Yeah, but I think when the whole universe is at stake you can put smaller stuff on the back burner or you won't have any planets at all. Thanos has been wrecking planets for a REALLY long time and you only NOW notice it? What the hell were you doing the whole time? Where was she when Xander was under attack by Ronin? Where was she when the Chitari were on Earth? Where was she when Ego was causing issues on MULTIPLE PLANETS?! Apparently, she was nowhere to be found and no explaining why other than "I was taking care of other things."
It is ridiculous and sad.
This is why I hate Rey in Star Wars too. She has no real formal training. She basically just becomes that good for no reason and the producers and directors themselves literally say "It is because she is a woman and the force is now female."
This society....this culture confuses me. I love Sakura because she was strong, but not flawless and she overcame so much, but apparently I am the one being sexist because I didn't support the useless big boobed, no brain bimbo who only defining feature was being subservient to a man. Is there a gas leak? Did I fall into the twilight zone or something? Why am I sexist cause I wanted to treat a women equally and wanted her to be realistic and independent?

I agreed James still waiting game for them to ruin wonder woman like that you know they would. I'm worried about Tifa in ff7 remake cause of this sjw kitten.




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