54175 replies to this topic

[Chatte]

The reason people see  Naruto's feelings for Sakura as shallow was because his pursuit at first for her love was shallow.

But not the feelings themselves.

 

We must remember that he downright tied-up Sasuke to get into Sakura's personal space and get a hold of what she thinks about him.

 

That was shallow on his part.

 

However, that's his point of origin from where he's supposed to develop.

 

By the end of Part 1 we see him giving Sakura the SPACE she needed to feel whatever she wants to feel, NOT be in her way of happiness and just downright selflessly giving up on his happiness for hers.

 

So yes, his pursuit of her affection starts shallow, but the affection itself isn't shallow. That's why for some it's easy to confuse or to downplay this, because there are those who don't know or downright refuse to make this distinction.

[Illnevergiveup3]

The reason people see  Naruto's feelings for Sakura as shallow was because his pursuit at first for her love was shallow.
But not the feelings themselves.
 
We must remember that he downright tied-up Sasuke to get into Sakura's personal space and get a hold of what she thinks about him.
 
That was shallow on his part.
 
However, that's his point of origin from where he's supposed to develop.
 
By the end of Part 1 we see him giving Sakura the SPACE she needed to feel whatever she wants to feel, NOT be in her way of happiness and just downright selflessly giving up on his happiness for hers.
 
So yes, his pursuit of her affection starts shallow, but the affection itself isn't shallow. That's why for some it's easy to confuse or to downplay this, because there are those who don't know or downright refuse to make this distinction.

nah, in my opinion. They think it is shallow because they refuse to see the truth. That Naruto's heart always belonged to Sakura-Chan and not Hinata. It further drives it home that NS was meant to be together and not SS and NH; and they can't stand it. It drives them crazy(NH) that Naruto is love with Sakura-Chan and drives(SS) insane that Sakura-Chan was falling for Naruto. I mean, if they were so confident in them happening, they wouldn't be sending Kishimoto threatening letters about him making that kitten happen. While meanwhile, we KNEW that NS is what will happen. They knew deep down inside where the story was going, and that's an NS ending.

I have literally seen someone say that the only reason Naruto thought that he loves Sakura-Chan is because Sai asked him and that made him believe he did. For some reason they refuse to believe that DIRECTLY after Sai asked if Naruto loves her and why he doesn't tell her how he feels. They refuse to believe that his answer was a indirect but still direct way of admitting he does love her and doesn't feel worthy of confessing until he keeps his promise. I bet if he would have said that about Hinata instead, then it would count as a confession of love.

I mean, no one in their right mind could see what Naruto is doing for her, putting her happiness first, always smiling around her, downright admitting that he loves her, willing to put all of her pain on his shoulders, etc. and say that he doesn't love her. All the while, somehow the one who faints everytime she's around him(Hinata to Naruto), and the one who downright prioritizes Naruto over the one she is claimed to like(Sakura-Chan to Sasuke) is deeply in love all because they confessed it while never SHOWING it like Naruto does for Sakura-Chan and Sakura-Chan does for Naruto.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 29 November 2020 - 12:07 AM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Eh, if a 12 y.o. is already mautre enough to put feeling of other person before his own, I can't say that they are shallow.
On other hand hipocrasy of Kishimoto is ridiculous, saying that Naruto was only trying to get Sakura because of Sasuke, when the only reason Sakura went for Sasuke was because Ino had fallen for him first, so he was "cool guy" of their class. 

I think she already had her little crush on Sasuke before she knew Ino did. But it doesnt change the fact that she turned it into a rivalry to see who could get him first and to beat each other in love. Its funny, because when Sakura-Chan would have inevitably ended up with Naruto, she would have literally beat Ino in love because Sakura-Chan would literally have someone who she actually loves and who loves her to the depths of his heart. While Ino would have chosen Sai because hes a Sasuke replacement in an attempt to one-up Sakura-Chan.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 28 November 2020 - 02:51 PM.

[Phantom_999]

The reason people see  Naruto's feelings for Sakura as shallow was because his pursuit at first for her love was shallow.

But not the feelings themselves.

 

We must remember that he downright tied-up Sasuke to get into Sakura's personal space and get a hold of what she thinks about him.

 

That was shallow on his part.

 

However, that's his point of origin from where he's supposed to develop.

 

By the end of Part 1 we see him giving Sakura the SPACE she needed to feel whatever she wants to feel, NOT be in her way of happiness and just downright selflessly giving up on his happiness for hers.

 

So yes, his pursuit of her affection starts shallow, but the affection itself isn't shallow. That's why for some it's easy to confuse or to downplay this, because there are those who don't know or downright refuse to make this distinction.

 

AND YET, they don't think Sakura's pursuit of Sasuke was shallow? Or how Hinata's love for Naruto originates from vicariously wanting his perceived self-confidence for herself which, logically speaking, is considered shallow? The never ending cycle of double standards for these shipping loonies continues, I tell you!

Edited by Phantom_999, 28 November 2020 - 10:24 PM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

So can anyone tell me why anyone would want their manga to get animated by SP, from what I can tell it means your creation is as good as done for if you let them get their hands on it?

 

Hell, the bigger question I have is how the hell haven't they gotten shut-down yet, I mean if I was someone big in Japan I would close it down as they give Anime a bad name.

[Luna]

This is what I meant. I was going by the Last logic. LOOL

 

 
Oh I think that what she meant was if NaruSaku was gonna be demolished as the last portrayed it, LeeSaku would have been the better alternative to SasuSaku. I think. But I will let Luna speak for herself, all things considered. 
 

[TheFirstEvil100]

Yeah, I agree, it's shame that Sakura was torn apart like this by Kishi, and more so SP.

[Dalton.T.R]

I really don't get how Kishi sleepts at night by doing what he did to one of his characters. As a writer of any kind you want the best for your characters. Sasuke was NOT the best option for Sakura, and I would argue Naruto might not have been either.

 

(Obviously the one she was REALLY falling for was the random ninja she healed before having that dark image of Sasuke pop up in chapter 540 or whatever it was) 

 

Reguardless however, I really don't get what keeps Kishimoto going now. He basiclly allowed SP to walk all over him and force him to do whatever they wanted. What he should have done was move to a different studio where he had FULL control over his story. I can tell your for a fact that no writer likes being told what to do and how and when to do it. It's OUR story you took interest in. It's OUR story you're going to follow!

 

As a writer you obviously know your characters inside and out. What are they scared of? Who do they want to be? What positions will they have by the end of the story? You have all this in your head for what you think is best for your characters, then a bunch of perverts come along and say to word "bewbs" every three words and refuse to accept the realities of the other characters.

 

If I were to ever become a good enough writer (maybe one day) to ever have my work turned into a series of some kind, I'd be making it damn clear that I'M the one in charge of MY story. And if I ever got a fanase as rabid as NH and SS, I'd probably kitten with them to no end and potentially even kill of that character. Sorry, but I'm not taking threats from my own fanbase. 

 

If there's one thing I carried over from Kishimoto's work, however, it's this: You NEVER mess with the protagonists' girl unless you got a death wish. 

[Bail o' Lies]

Because they are just "cartoon" characters. Really its his wife (and likely the rest of his family) being upset that probably affected him more. He was probably more focus on dealing with that. Naruto ending probably makes him feel bitter because he was pressured/gaslighted into doing it. When if he just stuck to the default story he could be like all the other successful shounen jump mangaka with finished manga.

 

I think he just kind of threw up his hands and stop caring at some point since their wasn't anything he could do. Which is going to be a problem for him now that he back in charge -more accurately the figure head- of this story.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 01 December 2020 - 06:21 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

If there's one thing I carried over from Kishimoto's work, however, it's this: You NEVER mess with the protagonists' girl unless you got a death wish. 

 

I'd say the only one to get away with killing the main characters love interest is Gerry Conway who killed off Gwen Stacy in The Night Gwen Stacy died storyline (Issues 121 to 122), since she was intended by Stan Lee to be Peter's true love. Granted parts of the fandom were not happy at first (and possibly Stan Lee depending which rumour you hear), hence you had Conway creating a Clone of her as a way to bring her back which as a result started the first clone story and the first appearance of Miles Warren becoming the Jackal & the clone that would become Ben Reilly which would eventually lead to the clone saga decades later. However the clone didn't stick around as many thought bringing Gwen would lose the impact of the story she died and how iconic it has become, not to mention Mary Jane was regarded as better love interest for Spiderman including Conway himself (and I believe Stan Lee eventually become fond of the pair hence he married them in the spider-man newspaper strips).

[Kagomaru]

 

I'd say the only one to get away with killing the main characters love interest is Gerry Conway who killed off Gwen Stacy in The Night Gwen Stacy died storyline (Issues 121 to 122), since she was intended by Stan Lee to be Peter's true love. Granted parts of the fandom were not happy at first (and possibly Stan Lee depending which rumour you hear), hence you had Conway creating a Clone of her as a way to bring her back which as a result started the first clone story and the first appearance of Miles Warren becoming the Jackal & the clone that would become Ben Reilly which would eventually lead to the clone saga decades later. However the clone didn't stick around as many thought bringing Gwen would lose the impact of the story she died and how iconic it has become, not to mention Mary Jane was regarded as better love interest for Spiderman including Conway himself (and I believe Stan Lee eventually become fond of the pair hence he married them in the spider-man newspaper strips).

Hell, before his death,  Stan Lee's last cameo appearance in the Spiderman 2018 video game had him saying that he always thought they were great together.

[Nostradamus]

I really don't get how Kishi sleepts at night by doing what he did to one of his characters.

[Dalton.T.R]

His stockpile won't last forever, though. Had he gone with NS it would have lasted a lot longer. 

 

Hell, I doubt many would have complained if LeeSaku happened. 

[Illnevergiveup3]

His stockpile won't last forever, though. Had he gone with NS it would have lasted a lot longer. 
 
Hell, I doubt many would have complained if LeeSaku happened. 

personally, I would drop Kishi's punk ass just as fast if LeeSaku happened over NS.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 02 December 2020 - 01:13 AM.

[Dalton.T.R]

personally, I would drop Kishis punk ass just as fast if LeeSaku happened over NS.

Well... it would still make more sense than what we got. At least Sakura actually showed kindness to Lee after his fight with Gaara. 

 

Now, I wouldn't have been HAPPY about LeeSaku happening, but I definitely would have been more than willing to just accept it sense the two DID have a little development.

[Chatte]

LeeSaku is way better by comparison than NaruHina, tbh.

 

At least Lee and Sakura have a connection, Sakura spoke to Lee after he also risked his life in Forest of Death to protect her from the Sound Nin.

 

The man basically confessed there, the same way Hinata did later in Pein Arc.

 

With boys they don't say it outright I like you. They say I will protect you till the day I die or whatever.

 

Whereas with girls is I like you, yadda yadda.

 

So yeah.. as I was saying, at least Sakura spoke to Lee after that incident. Naruto never spoke to Hinata tho'...

[Phantom_999]

I really don't get how Kishi sleepts at night by doing what he did to one of his characters. As a writer of any kind you want the best for your characters. Sasuke was NOT the best option for Sakura, and I would argue Naruto might not have been either.

 

(Obviously the one she was REALLY falling for was the random ninja she healed before having that dark image of Sasuke pop up in chapter 540 or whatever it was) 

 

Reguardless however, I really don't get what keeps Kishimoto going now. He basiclly allowed SP to walk all over him and force him to do whatever they wanted. What he should have done was move to a different studio where he had FULL control over his story. I can tell your for a fact that no writer likes being told what to do and how and when to do it. It's OUR story you took interest in. It's OUR story you're going to follow!

 

As a writer you obviously know your characters inside and out. What are they scared of? Who do they want to be? What positions will they have by the end of the story? You have all this in your head for what you think is best for your characters, then a bunch of perverts come along and say to word "bewbs" every three words and refuse to accept the realities of the other characters.

 

If I were to ever become a good enough writer (maybe one day) to ever have my work turned into a series of some kind, I'd be making it damn clear that I'M the one in charge of MY story. And if I ever got a fanase as rabid as NH and SS, I'd probably kitten with them to no end and potentially even kill of that character. Sorry, but I'm not taking threats from my own fanbase. 

 

If there's one thing I carried over from Kishimoto's work, however, it's this: You NEVER mess with the protagonists' girl unless you got a death wish. 

 

Or more importantly how can he say with a straight face that Sakura letting go of Sasuke would make her a terrible woman? So what if he's her "first love"? Is he saying that women that leave an abusive relationship are WRONG? That every woman that that has been battered, beaten and even killed are wonderful women and their circumstances with staying with an abusive kitten of a boyfriend/husband should be celebrated? And on topic of of that DISGUSTING abomination of an of an excuse, neither he nor any writer of Sasuke and Sakura's relationship is showing any signs of a stable healthy marriage anyway, and Kishi DEFINITELY did not give any good impression of a loving relationship DURING Naruto, despite CLAIMING The two are in love. IT DOESN'T MATTER if that Hinata wanking WEEB WANNABE Sawyer7mage said that "Sakura getting over Sasuke would make her a terrible woman", no matter how many likes his damn videos get from Hinata worshipping cultists, Kishi SHOULD REALIZE how insulting it is to women to say that getting over your first love makes you a "terrible woman" if your first love is the completely wrong person for you, or is completely and utterly abusive especially. That is just plain common sense.

Edited by Phantom_999, 04 December 2020 - 11:20 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Well... it would still make more sense than what we got. At least Sakura actually showed kindness to Lee after his fight with Gaara. 
 
Now, I wouldn't have been HAPPY about LeeSaku happening, but I definitely would have been more than willing to just accept it sense the two DID have a little development.

 
 

LeeSaku is way better by comparison than NaruHina, tbh.
 
At least Lee and Sakura have a connection, Sakura spoke to Lee after he also risked his life in Forest of Death to protect her from the Sound Nin.
 
The man basically confessed there, the same way Hinata did later in Pein Arc.
 
With boys they don't say it outright I like you. They say I will protect you till the day I die or whatever.
 
Whereas with girls is I like you, yadda yadda.
 
So yeah.. as I was saying, at least Sakura spoke to Lee after that incident. Naruto never spoke to Hinata tho'...

 
alright. I understand what you mean now. If you mean in comparison to NH/SS then yeah, LS is better than both. But, I've personally never considered it at all. It's pretty much, NS for me or you better try to figure out why that red beam is on your chest. 
 
But seriously, I don't accept less than what I want. Especially from a experienced Mangaka who knows better and knows that NS is the best option. Especially when Naruto is about a hyperactive, knuckleheaded dude who is all about making all of his dreams happen.  I don't want LeeSaku, SasuSaku, ShikaSaku, NejiSaku, RasenganSaku, RamenSaku, ChidoriSaku, Ultimate BarrageSaku, none of that. Give me NaruSaku or you're getting verbally decimated everyday until you do make it happen(Kishi). I'm giving this dude no room for second thoughts. =D
 

You crack me up lmaoo!

I have to agree with this overall. Though I think it's more of in theory thing - in theory it contrasted way better in comparison with the other secondary x main character pairs.

I forgot to reply to this. Everything you stated here is straight facts. It really highlights one of the key problems with this damned fanbase, at least here in the West.

That was the word I was looking for - entitled. Let's throw in selfish in there as well, since it applies. You know, I seriously hope that these crazy a** fans and anime studios aren't out here polluting other series with the same mentality.

The same people screaming at the top of their lungs for us to 'accept the canon' are the same ones who couldn't accept the basic fundamentals/facts of the story from the very beginning to the very end. They never cared about the facts of the story. There were so many instances in the manga where there was no room for interpretation, yet they didn't care. Hell, look at how they tried to insert Hinata into a love TRIANGLE that was exclusive to Team 7. They don't acknowledge the fact that she falls under the category of secondary characters who had feelings for the main characters (Ino -> Sasuke, Lee -> Sakura, Hinata -> Naruto). Thankfully, the facts never cared for their feelings. We will always have the overwhelming majority of the manga and SP and co. will never be able to erase it.

Oh, and Lee is technically more involved in the story than Hinata is, so he is above her in terms of relevance. Hinata, out of the Konaha 12, only ranks above some of them. Even Ino is likely above her given her relationship with Sakura and Team 10 being the most involved with 7. It's hilariously horrendous how these 'fans' idolized such a non-involved character. The anime is definitely to blame here for all of their filler that glorified her while also simultaneously tearing down Sakura, a main character.

I believe a long time ago there was someone who posted something about how Hinata's Japanese VA was popular and had a lot of fanboys. This would explain why SP was out here with all of the filler involving her and consistently fanboying. Nana herself is also quite attractive. It also doesn't help that Hinata's character traits panders to the weirdos who love the shy, soft spoken, submissive, busty, worshiper, Moe type. So you have the extremely biased rotten editors/SP directors who are presenting skewed evidence that Hinata, a character who doesn't appear often in the manga, is popular and the answer to extreme success. Talk about recipe for disaster.

 
lol. I understand what they mean now. Just the type of person I am, I don't accept alternatives. And the moment Kishi assumes that we will, will put it in his mind that it's alright. I'm giving that fool no space to do anything else but give Naruto what he worked hard for and giving Sakura-Chan her ultimate happiness. Which is each other. Throw in some more fights with her kicking ass and that will add to it.
 

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 02 December 2020 - 08:46 AM.

[Narut0Uzumak1]

Hello everyone! 

 

Wow, it's been a long time since I was here, although I read the forums from time to time. I'm basically new haha. So I'm sorry to intrude on this close knit, intricate circle. I hope you'll accept me!

 

For me, the anatomy of NaruHina or NaruSaku is quite close and the fans of both are rather similar. Let's take a look at this, and how their lives and the lives of the characters in Naruto showcase their own desires and reflect upon their choices of OTP and other miscellania. 

 

Naruto is the main character, and as such, readers and viewers will see things from his point of view almost all the time. His experiences as a relatively lonely child, one viewed upon with disgust and disinterest, matches many of those who read the manga growing up. I personally remember picking up the first volume a few weeks after it was first being sold in my country back in the early 2000's, whilst I was hiding from some unruly classmates, to give a personal example. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this was the case for the majority of us. Thus, we associate well with Naruto who also had to face similar issues of social acceptance, avoiding derision and dissatisfaction with our status quo. We too desired to be the Hokages of our own reality, and finally earn a modicum of respect after years of nonchalance. 

 

Along with that came the desire to be liked. And here, we see the primary buliding block of the NaruHina fan. Hinata already had a crush on Naruto. As unsatisfied individuals, NaruHina fans viewed this as a magical concept, and were immediately attracted to it, perhaps viewing it as something they desire, something we all desired, to have some love us or cherish us. 

 

Along with that came the desire to be loved with the person that we loved in return. To have our love acquiesced is one of the warmest things a human being can experience, and this is what the NaruSaku fan is built on. THIS IS NOT THE MAIN REASON I SUPPORT NARUSAKU, no not at all indeed, there are plenty of reasons to do so, mostly the fact that it has the greatest amout of actual development in the series, and the fact that it makes sense for Naruto, an individual who does not give up to be paired with the person who he did not give up on. But it is the foundational block for the NaruSaku fan. We all have intense desires to be with the one we love and to have the love returned is, I think, the greatest treasure someone can possess.

 

Anyway, that's just my two cents on that issue.

 

One thing I utterly despise is how people hate or bash or understate Sakura and her contribution or overstate Hinata's contribution in order to downplay Sakura.  

 

NaruHina fans will consistently state how powerful Hinata is/was, without ever giving any evidence showing that fact other than a few fights, in which she doesn't seem to perform that well. At the same time, they castigate Sakura, for the simple reason that she isn't shown to be as powerful or as meaningful in some cases as Naruto or Sasuke. But what they fail to mention, is that Sakura came from a civilian family, and had to train basically on her own or with academy instructors, whilst Hinata was given first hand Shinboi training at the hands of one of the heads of the most famous clans not just in Konoha, but in the world as well. And to top it off, she possess a Dojutsu, a visual kekkai Genkai in the byakugan, granting her 359 degrees of vision and the ability to see through solid objects, something the hidden cloud were willing to go to war over.

 

Sakura, did not possess those advantages, yet in her own right became one of the most powerful Kunoichi ever, and one of, if not the greatest medical ninja ever, and was undoubtedly one of the most influential shinobi of her time.

 

Yes, she was trained by Tsunade. But that only came towards the end of part 1, whilst Hinata had been trained privately her whole life. 

 

Let's view the battle with Pein. Whilst Hinata diving in to "save" Naruto was admirable, in the Manga it played the role of motivating Naruto to re-engage with Nagato, thus Hinata took on the role Naruto usually played, which was to re-ignite the fires in Shinobi in which the desire to keep going had perished. And in the Manga, it was short. The anime stretched it to a full quarter of an episode, and exaggerated her impact greatly. NaruHina fans look upon this with great fondness, because it was Hinata's confession of course, but at the same time, they look at sakura with disgust, because she did not do this, preferring to sit back and let Naruto fight.

 

But Sakura was not in the position to do so, because she was busy rescuing and reviving the villagers and the Shinobi who had been injured in Pein's annihilation of the Hidden Leaf. 

 

It disgusts me when NaruHina fans, or indeed anyone, says Sakura was useless here. As if being essentially single handedly responsible for saving the lives of countless Shonbi/Civlians isn't admirable, or isn't exactly what Naruto wanted her to do. 

 

I'd also like to add that when it comes to risking your life to save someone, Naruto did that with Sakura plenty of times, like when he battled an insane Gaara to save both her and Sasuke. And when he ran after her and took a giant shuriken for her when she went after Sasuke on her own. Or how about when he saved her from Sasuke's Raikiri by lifting her up princess style or how about etc....

 

NaruHina fans view the Chuunin exam fight between Hinata and Neji as an important event in their lexicon, because Naruto stood up for Hinata and because the fight exhibited the incredible powers of the Byakugan. Whilst viewing the Sakura fight with Ino with contempt and disgust, because it was a draw and didn't appear to showcase much Shinobi skill.

 

But again, both Hinata and Neji possessed the Byakugan, an exclusive Hyuuga-only technique which granted them extraordinary abilities. Sakura and Ino...did not possess this. 

 

Whilst Sakura and Ino's fight was not as intricate as Hinata and Neji's, it was a perfect example of character development. Sakura decided that her decision to enagage in the life of a shinobi was more than just to get closer with Sasuke, she decided to engage with Ino, a foe who possessed the ability to enter her mind and force her to submit. She decided to gain strength and to move forward and to make herself worthy of wearing the headband of a ninja of the hidden leaf. That's why she put it on with much pride during the fight and in other subsquent fights she was in.

 

We see this same attitude earlier on, when confronted with Zaku and the Sound ninja, and that even if the rumours of Sasuke liking girls with long hair were true, it didn't matter, because she would need to cut her hair to win that fight in order to, oh you know, single handedly defend Sasuke and Rock Lee from three separate shinobi of unknown skill. Not bad for a "useless" person right?

 

One of the most visually powerful scenes in the entire series, is when Sakura, despite being incapcitated by having her hands tied behind her back, jumps out and pushes Zaku down, biting into his wrist, and he's punching her in the head repeatedly, while blood is streaming down her face. This was at halfway through part 1, so we haven't seen much bloodshed yet, it's an incredible piece of aesthetic literature and showcases Sakura's pure heart and determination.

 

She manages to scrape a draw against Ino, when pretty much all the odds were against her. Meanwhile, Hinata's highlights include.....getting curbstomped by Neji.

 

Remember at this point, Sakura does not possess any abilities that make her stand out from her classmates and compatriots, who possess kekkai genkais like Sasuke, Neji and Hinata, tailed beats like Naruto, and their own Clan techniques like Kiba with his animal techniques and Akamaru partnerships, Shino with his insect controls, Ino with her mindstalking, Shikamaru with his shadow walking, Chouji with his expansion jutsus, Lee with his gates and taijutsu, and Tenten and her weapons.

 

And as for Naruto promising to avenge Hinata's defeat, that was moreso because Neji beat her up way more than he needed to, humiliating her and seriously hurting her in the process whilst insulting her throughout the whole fight.

 

And Naruto was cheering for Sakura wholeheartedly during her entire fight. Something NaruHina fans forget to mention.

 

Oh, yeah, one thing that made me despise Kishimoto was that he admitted having Neji killed off so that Naruto and hinata would get closer. Forgetting how ridiculous that idea is, the fact that he had to have someone killed in order to make NaruHina happen, hilarious as it is, is disturbing. Imagine being in a relationship because your cousin died to save your life, it doesn't even make sense. And to top it off, that wasn't apparently enough, because they had to retcon an entire movie in order to make it remotely plausible. So Neji's death was essentially for naught. 

Edited by Narut0Uzumak1, 05 December 2020 - 11:20 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Well said.