68 replies to this topic

[rocci]

@harry
I expect Karin to move on, the same goes with ino.
It's the byproduct of ss become canon.

Unless you want her to become the next villain, because she can't have sasuke.

[James S Cassidy]

The only pattern I notice here is that all the girls in this series are hated for liking Sasuke. Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke....why is he so popular? Why? People say it is because of this "cool guy" persona, but why do they ignore all the abuse he has given to so many that didn't deserve and even now to this day?

What am I missing? How can this guy make every girl, no matter who they are, get so much hate all because they fall "in love" with him. How do all the girls fall in love with him when he gives them nothing to fall in love with?

What sort of delusion are girls seeing today? No offense to the females here, but what the hell is up with the girls falling in the love with the biggest douchebags on the planet? The same girls then complain on why they can't have romance or nice guys in their life, but they always fall for the wrong people. Not that I can say much seeing how I seem to always fall for the girls who apparently hate affection so much and even just hugging them is considered rape to them, but...what the hell happened?

A time ago, it used to be that Prince Charming was the go to guy and now....now all I see is "how cool Sasuke is" and how "he is so sexy" but the dude gives no craps and would rather be a loner the rest of his life. Yet if I tried to be that way, I get insulted and called a bad guy.

Why? Why is all this happening? Why couldn't NaruSaku be together and actually be a happy loving family? Why did it have to be this shallow, one dimensional, family drama that leads to nothing and NOBODY learns a lesson in anything?

Why are some people okay with this and even think it is amazing writing? Why is Karin and Naruto moving on seen as strength, but Sakura moving on seen as weakness? Why....

Why don't I belong in this world any more?

My idea of love is when you truly care for someone. When you're willing to anything for them and in turn they are the same for you. Where you want to be in their arms and have nights where it is just the two of you. Where you can have romantic and sexy night and not be ashamed of it. Where you trust each other so much that you can tell them anything and not be ashamed or afraid that they will think negatively of you. Like someone put an angel on earth to save you and just you. Where you go through anything and be happy. Politics, wars, religion, none of it mattered...just the two of you.

Apparently "true love" today is living in fear every day, neglect, anger, frustration...."sex is bad and even thinking about having sex makes you a rapist," and living in a fake delusional fantasy world where in real life you are so neglected that even the other person just spitting in your direction is more romantic than anything. You're so thirsty for attention you become obsessive and craving for even a glance.

 

I'll be honest...this world really makes me want to put a bullet in my head sometimes. I know that sounds dark, but if this is truly what the world has come to, then there is no point in living it because apparently me being the "nice, loving, hopeless romantic guy" makes me the biggest "Sexist, rapist, misogynist, women hating man on the planet," but a guy who hits you, calls you names, tells you to get back in the kitchen, doesn't give a kitten whether you live or die is the "new age hottie" that every girl wants to bang harder than a drum.

I'm sorry for being so dark about this, but this is all I have been feeling lately and this entire Naruto fandom is making me feel like life and love are nothing more than words to justify the cruelest reasons why people do the most disgusting acts against each other.

Being in love used to mean something.....now it means nothing. People used to say that Gay Marriage would have killed the sanctity of love and such....no, it was already bleeding and dead on the ground before any of that was a thought...and these new age "love affairs" are the downfall of it all.

 

@harry
I expect Karin to move on, the same goes with ino.
It's the byproduct of ss become canon.

Unless you want her to become the next villain, because she can't have sasuke.

yeup...the entire series is full of "terrible women" according to Kishimoto.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 July 2015 - 03:14 AM.

[tricksie]

But I thought a woman's feelings couldn't change when they fell in love!

Lol - exactly!! Silly Kishimoto forgetting this!

 

I didn't gain any NEW respect for Karin, because she got over Sasuke ONLY because SasuSaku forced her character to. No other reason.
If anything, I lost some for Kishimoto =_=

Yes! This! There was nothing that made her get over him. If his attempted murder didn't do it...then we're supposed to believe her undying love just suddenly dried up and she became bffs with Sakura? I mean, Sakura's couldn't keep her own bff from childhood because of their fight over Sasuke...so we're supposed to believe there would be a BETTER outcome with crazytownbananapants Karin who is psycho and obsessed with Sasuke?!?!

 

I still love the character of Karin and the potential she had.

 

I stand on her actions during the Killer Bee fight, and during the fight with Madara where she bypassed her limits and activated the chakra chains to save Sasuke in both instances she embraced the gaining greater strength to protect the one you love meta of the story.

 

which I might add is one more then Sasuke did.

 

Her 'creepy obssession' is overblown and done for comedic purposes as Sakuras hitting Naruto is, and I don't see anyone kevetching about that-- add in that she is the ONLY female to stand on equal ground with him and call Sasuke out on his bullcrap. Not eve gaiden Sakura--doormat-- does this. 

Ok so I was skeptical about Karin when you initially brought this theory up ages ago. But I have to say, I think Sasuke ending up with a self-assured, post-attempted-murder Karin would have been a much better outcome than we had. 

 

Knowing that she was that self-assured person for a while, when Sakura was healing her and she was heading to Konoha, it was like we got a glimpse of what she might have been. There definitely could have been some interesting character development for her, and in the end it would have turned out to be a better suited relationship than the SS we got.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Lol - exactly!! Silly Kishimoto forgetting this!

 

Yes! This! There was nothing that made her get over him. If his attempted murder didn't do it...then we're supposed to believe her undying love just suddenly dried up and she became bffs with Sakura? I mean, Sakura's couldn't keep her own bff from childhood because of their fight over Sasuke...so we're supposed to believe there would be a BETTER outcome with crazytownbananapants Karin who is psycho and obsessed with Sasuke?!?!

 

Ok so I was skeptical about Karin when you initially brought this theory up ages ago. But I have to say, I think Sasuke ending up with a self-assured, post-attempted-murder Karin would have been a much better outcome than we had. 

 

Knowing that she was that self-assured person for a while, when Sakura was healing her and she was heading to Konoha, it was like we got a glimpse of what she might have been. There definitely could have been some interesting character development for her, and in the end it would have turned out to be a better suited relationship than the SS we got.

 

Wow, Tricks, you were on a roll! :clap: I can dig it though, and I agree for sure. This is one reason I admire you so much

 

I also think too that Karin may still love Sasuke, but I also think she was lying to Suigetsu, since you would THINK Sakura would keep Sarada's umbilical cord, not Karin, which is why I think she was lying, and Sakura is too, since Sakura hasn't even been KISSED by Sasuke, yet they are "married"? That tells you obviously something is up and once again, it is being glazed over because Kishi is a hack.

[AHK]

@harry
I expect Karin to move on, the same goes with ino.
It's the byproduct of ss become canon.
Unless you want her to become the next villain, because she can't have sasuke.

Lol, too bad Ino was busy slobbering over Sasuke in this latest chapter. Feel bad for Sai, the man is just a stand in. Ino used him, just as Sakura used Naruto and Sasuke, and Hinata used Naruto. The only decent woman alive is Tsunade.

[tricksie]

 

Wow, Tricks, you were on a roll! :clap: I can dig it though, and I agree for sure. This is one reason I admire you so much

 

I also think too that Karin may still love Sasuke, but I also think she was lying to Suigetsu, since you would THINK Sakura would keep Sarada's umbilical cord, not Karin, which is why I think she was lying, and Sakura is too, since Sakura hasn't even been KISSED by Sasuke, yet they are "married"? That tells you obviously something is up and once again, it is being glazed over because Kishi is a hack.

Yes, once again, Kishimoto is insinuating a lot then tacking on an ending that doesn't fit with the rest of the story.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yes, once again, Kishimoto is insinuating a lot then tacking on an ending that doesn't fit with the rest of the story.

 

Just as he did with 699 and 700, which is just damn dumb... =/ If you can't write a decent ending, you should have your writer's card revoked, cut, burnt to ashes, and then scatter those ashes somewhere barren, like, I dunno, the Sahara!

[James S Cassidy]

 

Wow, Tricks, you were on a roll! :clap: I can dig it though, and I agree for sure. This is one reason I admire you so much

 

I also think too that Karin may still love Sasuke, but I also think she was lying to Suigetsu, since you would THINK Sakura would keep Sarada's umbilical cord, not Karin, which is why I think she was lying, and Sakura is too, since Sakura hasn't even been KISSED by Sasuke, yet they are "married"? That tells you obviously something is up and once again, it is being glazed over because Kishi is a hack.

Well, they lied to Salad for over a long time and refuse to tell the truth even to their closet friends...who is to say they still aren't lying now? Honestly, why is Salad's birth such a big huge secret if it is no big deal? There is no reason or logic in any of this even at the most basic process. They aren't protecting Salad from anything or anyone trying to get her and she has no enemies. The villains didn't give a crap so it is not like there were threats.

We are supposed to believe that the massive strength was a genetic hand me down? Oh well I guess Sasuke had sex with Tsunade then....that seems more logical than Sasuke and Sakura at this point which is pretty sad if you think about it.

These are ninja too....ninja who keep secrets and lies sometimes years at a time...even to death...so who can say really is the truth?

[Nate River]

Seriously?  She`s such a contrast from her part 2 self.  In just a few panels, she showed more maturity then all of
team 7.  I think that`s worth something at least.

1. At least four other people said the same thing and I'm getting singled out?

2. Karin clearing a bar that low isn't impressive nor does it erase the ghastly handling Karin got prior to that. Karin was more mature than an absentee father and a mother who couldn't be straight with her daughter for no apparent reason. Big deal.

3. Broken Figurine about covers it. We never see a friendship develop. We never see its results on screen. After finding her half dead, Sakura and Karin never interact on screen again. The only reason we know they were friends is because the manga says so as part of explanation to the DNA results. When people complain about telling instead of showing this is a great example. It's not impossible for that relationship to help her character, but we have to see it. As it is, their friendship means nothing to me.

There was an opportunity in Part 2 and instead she runs to the guy who, in their last interaction, left her for dead. The comedic relief in the aftermath of this is so inappropriate and behaves like the incident never happened. He crossed a line for her character at that moment, not that he noticed.

4. I've been unequivocal in my dislike of Team Not Seven in its entirety. I still stand by claim that the existence makes no sense and that they should never have been introduced. They were, especially Suigetsu and Juugo, characters who constantly were in a position where the author had to find something for them to do. So, yeah, there isn't alot out their that's going to suddenly improve my opinion of them.

Knowing that she was that self-assured person for a while, when Sakura was healing her and she was heading to Konoha, it was like we got a glimpse of what she might have been. There definitely could have been some interesting character development for her, and in the end it would have turned out to be a better suited relationship than the SS we got.

Indeed. When it really matter most she threw all that aside and ran right back to her would be murderer. And then the manga started laughing at later on down the line.

[Nostradamus]

Yes my feelings towards her have changed. It's no surprise that I said she's nuts; I mean I did mention this a couple of times.

But now my feelings towards her really changed.

 

Now I see her as a terrible woman.

[Nate River]

Well, they lied to Salad for over a long time and refuse to tell the truth even to their closet friends...who is to say they still aren't lying now? Honestly, why is Salad's birth such a big huge secret if it is no big deal?

Hey.

Hey!

Stop asking reasonable questions.

This is Naruto we are talking about. I mean what do we expect? Rational behavior? How unreasonable of us!

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Hey.

Hey!

Stop asking reasonable questions.

This is Naruto we are talking about. I mean what do we expect? Rational behavior? How unreasonable of us!

 

And Kishi isn't a reasonable writer so...

 

But seriously, Nate, I still think Karin is Sarada's real mom, having lied to Suigetsu just to protect her from something Kishi is never gonna explore because he's a hack who doesn't even deserve his writer's card after the boneheaded moves he has made in the last several months.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Honestly, I'm just well past the point of caring. All of Kishimoto's characters ended up being horribly written, Karin's no different.

[catsi563]

Im sorry nate but I just cant agree with you. I think Takas creation ahd amazing potential in the story if Kishmoto had ended it correctly.

 

they to me would represent Sasukes new life as a wanderer. they would represent the change in position with Naruto.

 

I hold that the original authors intent was to have Naruto and Sasule switch places.

Sasuke starts out the cool guy everyone admires the prince and most respected yada yada

 

Sasuke ends as the guy everyone hates no one trusts no one respects, and the one who has to regain everyones trust and admiration.

 

the one who has to build bonds from scratch

 

that is where taka comes in.

 

three people close to Sasuke in several ways that he has to build bonds with. Juugo the one whose loyal to him thanks to kimmimaros legacy. Suigetsu the sort of rival who he ahs to build mutual understanding with, and Karin the only woman hes ever respected--canonically shown--as the love interest he ahs to win over.

While I do agree their reunion was poorly handled she almost certainly should've gotten some of her own back from him. that could have been worked around and more development shown in a more serious fashion later.

[ThroughWithLove]

Im sorry nate but I just cant agree with you. I think Takas creation ahd amazing potential in the story if Kishmoto had ended it correctly.

 

they to me would represent Sasukes new life as a wanderer. they would represent the change in position with Naruto.

 

I hold that the original authors intent was to have Naruto and Sasule switch places.

Sasuke starts out the cool guy everyone admires the prince and most respected yada yada

 

Sasuke ends as the guy everyone hates no one trusts no one respects, and the one who has to regain everyones trust and admiration.

 

the one who has to build bonds from scratch

 

that is where taka comes in.

 

three people close to Sasuke in several ways that he has to build bonds with. Juugo the one whose loyal to him thanks to kimmimaros legacy. Suigetsu the sort of rival who he ahs to build mutual understanding with, and Karin the only woman hes ever respected--canonically shown--as the love interest he ahs to win over.

While I do agree their reunion was poorly handled she almost certainly should've gotten some of her own back from him. that could have been worked around and more development shown in a more serious fashion later.

Kishimoto said Taka was the editor's idea, not his. So it makes sense that their importance diminished greatly after the editor left.

[sushi.]

Kishimoto said Taka was the editor's idea, not his. So it makes sense that their importance diminished greatly after the editor left.

All of the great ideas were the editor's ideas. Which is why characters have their moments just to turn to a little kitten again.

[Nate River]

Im sorry nate but I just cant agree with you. I think Takas creation ahd amazing potential in the story if Kishmoto had ended it correctly.
 
they to me would represent Sasukes new life as a wanderer. they would represent the change in position with Naruto.
 
I hold that the original authors intent was to have Naruto and Sasule switch places.
Sasuke starts out the cool guy everyone admires the prince and most respected yada yada
 
Sasuke ends as the guy everyone hates no one trusts no one respects, and the one who has to regain everyones trust and admiration.
 
the one who has to build bonds from scratch
 
that is where taka comes in.
 
three people close to Sasuke in several ways that he has to build bonds with. Juugo the one whose loyal to him thanks to kimmimaros legacy. Suigetsu the sort of rival who he ahs to build mutual understanding with, and Karin the only woman hes ever respected--canonically shown--as the love interest he ahs to win over.
While I do agree their reunion was poorly handled she almost certainly should've gotten some of her own back from him. that could have been worked around and more development shown in a more serious fashion later.

The reason I say they make no sense is because Sasuke bailed on Konoha was because of bonds. He was forced by the system into a team and despite his desires to the contrary, ended up forming bonds with this teammates. He lated complains those bonds hindered him.

So, naturally, the first thing he does upon going completely solo is form a new team.

Taka's creation, especially at the time he does it, makes no sense in light of his personal experience and motivation. The reason for this was to aid in his pursuit of Itachi, but they never do that. Itachi comes to him and no one interferes in the fight.

I'll grant you that there are things he could have done to make it better and that potential does exist, but I think their entire introduction would have to be redone to deal with glaring issue of Sasuke repeating an experience he just openly stated was a problem. But with one exception, they were always characters in search of role and that's generally not a good place to be.

It appears the real divide between you and I on this is I'm more focused on what they were when I say they should not exist and your more focused on what they could have been in the hands of a better author. As I said, I'll agree that they could have been much better than they ended up being.

[rocci]

Kishimoto said Taka was the editor's idea, not his. So it makes sense that their importance diminished greatly after the editor left.

The same goes with sasuke and sakura.

@nate
No one interfere with a duel.

Edited by rocci, 13 July 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Ryriena]

Not really no but it was really low to begin with due to that destroying of her development with being done with him but going back to her would be murder.

[ThroughWithLove]

The same goes with sasuke and sakura.

@nate
No one interfere with a duel.

 

Exactly. Hence why in the end, their characters were utterly destroyed.