118 replies to this topic

[4000TMNT]

I we getting a chapter this week.

[FoolishYoungling]

Rumors are saying Tobi's identity will be shown in August. Is it true?

[sushi.]

Rumors are saying Tobi's identity will be shown in August. Is it true?

In a few weeks. Which is why it breaks my heart that there will be no chapter this week DSGØOJSFKGJDKSFLJS

Maybe in chapter 600

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Rumors are saying Tobi's identity will be shown in August. Is it true?

Yeah, I can't find the interview link, but Kishi has confirmed that he's revealing Tobi's identity this month. Remains to be seen if he'll be true to his word.

[Verilance]

Are you guys serious? I'm surprised he gave spoilers like that.

here is a link to SaiyanIsland where they give the translated interview it was in last issue of Jump

Kishimoto's Interview

Edited by Verilance, 08 August 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[Don-kun]

No chapter.

[4000TMNT]

Is their a chapter next week.

[Verilance]

Oban festival starts this week so no Weekly Shonen Jump next Monday with luck we will get early spoilers next week

Edited by Verilance, 08 August 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[ciardha]

Are you guys serious? I'm surprised he gave spoilers like that.

It's not that unusual for a manga creator to give spoilers like that for something that is coming up very soon in the manga- creates excitement.

[James S Cassidy]

As a practical matter, you're right. Kishimoto won't go through all that only to undermine one of his core themes by people going back to the way things were prior to the alliance. Is it realistic? Probably not, because it doesn't involve all nations and because we do not know many of the underlying reasons they why they hate each other. It's like many of Kishimoto attempts on the cycle of hate: it's is too simplistic. This one doesn't bother me though, because it easily has the potential to get way out of hand and distract from main story if he starts going down that road. It's like the Hyuuga Clan resolution after Neji's defeat. Too short and simple for a very complicated problem involving a lot of vested interests who benefit from the arrangement? Yeah, but it's not their story.

There is another factor you forgot. You don't necessarily have to revert back to the old ways after the Fourth Ninja War. In fact, Kishimoto could keep them friends for the rest of time, but eventually those generations die off and then later down the road some people from a newer generation might start the war all over again.

Story Arcs are amazing like that and has been done before. Look at "Legend of Korra." Aang brought peace when he was the Avatar, but when he died and left it to the newer generation, more trouble pops up and Korra is the one to deal with. Naruto can bring peace to his generation, but what of generations in the future after Naruto is dead and gone? If Kishimoto wanted, he could create a whole new story arc that way, but highly doubt it since he might do something else. So for Naruto, there will be peace in the end at least.

Sounds to me like your the one doing this by attempting to place that argument off limits because you cannot deal with it. I think Kishimoto is too much the slave to this idiom, but it doesn't change its existence or it's implications for the story.

Thanks for being a jerk, Nate. I mean I know you're an admin and everything, but you're human too. I'm sorry, but I am not going to live in fear of your admin power because I think you're wrong.

Whatever, let me show you how stupid this idiom is applied by how everyone uses it and show you why this is such a flawed argument to use IN LESS THAN PRACTICAL SITUATIONS.

Situation #1
Will NaruSaku happen? Well, by the logic that the idiom infersthat means it is already canon as people claim. We might as well claim victory right now. Okay everyone it is official. NaruSaku is canon because the new generation MUST surpass the previous generation. Jiraiya couldn't get Tsunade, Obito couldn't get Rin, and many other past relationships that didn't work out.

Break out the champagne Nate, NaruSaku is canon all thanks to this idiom. Congrats team, we did it.

Situation #1a
What about NaruHina? Well I guess the idiom can work for this too. What about the other pairings? Same thing.

Situation #2
Sasuke? Well obviously, he is going to be saved by Naruto because once again Naruto must surpass where the past have failed. So we already know the ending. Why bother keep reading? Sasuke gets saved, Naruto saves the day, end. Why even have the fight at all? Kishimoto, the master of twists, decides to do a straight forward ending? Well, I am satisfied.

Situation #3
Naruto is stronger than the original Sage of Six paths? According to this idiom he is. End of story.

Situation #4
Madara Uchiha becomes God? Well, too bad, he is stopped by the idiom. Someone, no matter how weak he/she is compared must beat him. I guess this could also be the "Hero always wins," but I think this only applies to Naruto.

Situation #5
Sasuke stronger than Madara? You guess it....Idiom.

Situation #6
Asspulls. This idiom can be used to defend them. Enough said.

And so many other stupid and impractical arguments I have seen where people just push aside all logic because of this idiom. People are using this idiom wrong which is what I have been trying to say these past several posts. There are many ways to surpass the previous people. There are many truths to this idiom, but people want to use it in ways that are stupid and almost contradict the manga itself.

You say I can't accept things I don't agree, Nate? On the contrary, I am willing to keep an open mind. And no, I don't flip the chessboard like you claim. However, I am not about to let people use checker pieces to make things "easier."

I am at least willing to keep an open mind about how this manga will turn out. You can say and think what you want, but I am tired of hearing the bullcrap that things must happen this way and the ending must happen this way because the previous generation must be surpassed by the newer generation. There are things I would like to happen, but even you admins say that we should be more open minded.

To deny possible outcomes goes against what you guys try to establish here at the NaruSaku Forum and you know it. Whether you agree or not, you can at least say "That is a possible outcome, but I don't think it will happen that way" and not going down the road. "No, you're stupid. It MUST happen this way cause the newer generation must surpass the previous generation. So that means Naruto must win and it must happen this exact way."

If you can't even accept that, then you failed in everything this forum tried to stand for.

Why do want Sasuke to die so badly? I don't see dying as a self-sacrificing hero much of a punishment for his deeds. He'd be remembered for his sacrifice not his evil deeds.

I have explained this a thousands times already, Nate. Do I really have to say this again? Fine. It is the best outcome I can see that at least appeases almost most of the fan bases. Sasuke gets to be the hero like people wanted. Naruto learns a lesson about life and how just because you failed in one aspect, doesn't mean you fail in another. Sasuke gets the punishment he deserves AND gets redemption at the same time.

No matter what, Sasuke will NOT be remembered for his evil deeds anyway. Not by Naruto, not by the fans, no one.

People want Sasuke to be the hero, to live, to get the girl, to rebuild the clan. Some people don't want him to be punished at all BECAUSE of this stupid idiom. And that Naruto is so weak of heart and in love with Sasuke that any other outcome would be criminal to Naruto. He is such a pathetic hero that everyone in the village could die and he could live on, but god forbid Sasuke dies. Oh no, Naruto will commit suicide.

At least this outcome lets Sasuke get praised for something he actually does and not because the idiom told us to or because we want Naruto to succeed. Not only that, but Naruto keeps his word at that.

Understand? I much prefer Sasuke to die a horrible death at the hands of Tobi and suffer the rest of his existence, but no, we can't have that thanks to this idiom. So I like this outcome because it is not giving a free-ride, but instead gives him a chance to do good in his life. Understand now? I must have said this so many time. I at least wrote 5 books on why I like this ending better than most endings everyone else has come up with and for better reason than just because Naruto would be devastated that he didn't succeed.

This made me realize why Sakura's confession was such a great turning point and why it wasn't fake. I think you guys can make this connection on your own or maybe not. Maybe I'll explain later.

Unless you think Sasuke just saying "I'm sorry" is a better outcome?

[Nate River]

Thanks for being a jerk, Nate. I mean I know you're an admin and everything, but you're human too. I'm sorry, but I am not going to live in fear of your admin power because I think you're wrong.

Whatever, let me show you how stupid this idiom is applied by how everyone uses it and show you why this is such a flawed argument to use IN LESS THAN PRACTICAL SITUATIONS.

I do what I can.

Besides, your the one who basically claimed that the people who used that argument are big babies who throw tantrums rather than admit defeat. I'm one of the people who believe that argument is why Sasuke won't die.

Of course I have a problem with your claim and the way you phrased it. The difference is I never tried to effectively declare your argument illegitimate by equating it with a temper tantrum. From my perspective, I'm just calling out your attempt to do so.

Anyway, what on earth does my admin power have to do with anything here? Your claim irritated me. I'm offering my opinion on it.

No one is asserting mod power of any kind here.

Situation #1
Will NaruSaku happen? Well, by the logic that the idiom infersthat means it is already canon as people claim. We might as well claim victory right now. Okay everyone it is official. NaruSaku is canon because the new generation MUST surpass the previous generation. Jiraiya couldn't get Tsunade, Obito couldn't get Rin, and many other past relationships that didn't work out.

Bridge too far.

It is a fairly common argument as to why it will become cannon. but it alone is not sufficient proof of that. Kishimoto can obviously abandon or modify it for a given situation or in full. It is always a possibility. It's simply not likely that he will.

Break out the champagne Nate, NaruSaku is canon all thanks to this idiom. Congrats team, we did it.

Sorry, dood. I don't drink.

Situation #1a
What about NaruHina? Well I guess the idiom can work for this too. What about the other pairings? Same thing.

How so?

Situation #2
Sasuke? Well obviously, he is going to be saved by Naruto because once again Naruto must surpass where the past have failed. So we already know the ending. Why bother keep reading? Sasuke gets saved, Naruto saves the day, end. Why even have the fight at all? Kishimoto, the master of twists, decides to do a straight forward ending? Well, I am satisfied.

Situation #3
Naruto is stronger than the original Sage of Six paths? According to this idiom he is. End of story.

Situation #4
Madara Uchiha becomes God? Well, too bad, he is stopped by the idiom. Someone, no matter how weak he/she is compared must beat him. I guess this could also be the "Hero always wins," but I think this only applies to Naruto.

Situation #5
Sasuke stronger than Madara? You guess it....Idiom.

Situation #6
Asspulls. This idiom can be used to defend them. Enough said.

You make two major mistakes here.

(1) What is done in Chapter threads (besides commentary) is a prediction on what he will do. A good indicator is obvious what has come before and things like what are the common themes are useful barometers for predicting what he will do next. He change themes, modify theme, create caveats, whatever. Nothing prevents him from doing so, but again, I don't see any evidence that this is likely. And, if you do pick certain themes, you will be somewhat locking in what you can do if you want to maintain consistency with it. Which brings to me to my next point. Consistency does not require slavish devotion, which is what your argument amount to.

You claim it stupid impractical, but you only get there by using a bunch of strawman. What you do is.....

(2) You treat consistency as slavish devotion. You aren't the only one doing this, but I think you examples and a number of other posters take the concept far too literally. An easy hanging curve is your claim Sasuke will becoming stronger than Madara. Why is that necessary? What significance would it mean if he did. Surpassing doesn't have to me getting stronger than the next guy. In fact, that is a really superficial approach to it. If Naruto becomes stronger than the Sage, but still fails to save his friend then, yeah, he surpassed the old dood in the previous generation, but not where it really mattered.

I think that particular theme is essentially what connects the old generation to the young. Specifically, the fact that it's the older generations mess that has led to some of the problems in the current one (Sasuke is a prime example) and it is the younger generation who is largely cleaning it up. Yes, surpassing the previous generation will (probably often) result in the younger being stronger (or at least on that path), but I think the real focus of theme is basically looking at where the previous generation screwed up and correcting (or not repeating) those errors. It's all over the place. It was all over Itachi's conversation to Naruto and it's demonstrated Itachi could not and did not finish the job with Sasuke.

You say I can't accept things I don't agree, Nate? On the contrary, I am willing to keep an open mind. And no, I don't flip the chessboard like you claim. However, I am not about to let people use checker pieces to make things "easier."

I am at least willing to keep an open mind about how this manga will turn out. You can say and think what you want, but I am tired of hearing the bullcrap that things must happen this way and the ending must happen this way because the previous generation must be surpassed by the newer generation. There are things I would like to happen, but even you admins say that we should be more open minded.

To deny possible outcomes goes against what you guys try to establish here at the NaruSaku Forum and you know it. Whether you agree or not, you can at least say "That is a possible outcome, but I don't think it will happen that way" and not going down the road. "No, you're stupid. It MUST happen this way cause the newer generation must surpass the previous generation. So that means Naruto must win and it must happen this exact way."

EDIT: By the way, who said that you were stupid? Whatever you intent behind that, it comes across as an attempt to put words in people's mouth for the purpose of characterizing them in a negative light. It's a cheap caricature of the actual argument. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I never claimed you were stupid.

No, I don't know that.

I wasn't aware that is what we stood for. You completely warp and distort what we mean about being open minded. As an admin, I don't really give a crap whether the members of this form refuse to alter already disproven theories, hold tight to improbably ones, or whatever else they believe.

All we ask is you don't bash and treat other members with respect. Nothing about that requires you to be open-minded about what you think will happen in the series itself. As to that....as long as people obey the rules, I don't really give a damn.

Anyway, Kishimoto could down a bunch of LSD tomorrow and have Sasuke fart pixie dust just before he discovers a magic want lodged up his rear that he suddenly uses to become Harry Potter. It's possible. You can't prove to me he won't suddenly go on a bender and do that. It's beyond unlikely, completely unreasonable, but not impossible.

I don't like dealing solely in the realm of it's possible without at least some indication within the story that there is a basis for that possibility. Proving something is not possible requires proving a negative, which is something that is often impossible to do.

As I said before he's picked a couple of major themes, by picking do so, yes, there is some possibility that are closed off or limited IF he wants to maintain consistency with that theme and when making predictions I'm going to look to those. Murdering Sasuke in cold-blood, for example, would not be all that consistent with ending the cycle of hate, right? Unless, he's going for the literal approach or the hero of the story is going to be the example instead of Sasuke (which has not been the case up until now). It's always a possibility, but looking at the series as a whole and what we have seen so far....do you honestly suspect such thing will happen?

When you pick themes and ideas to convey in your story, you can't simply do whatever you want and pray your internal consistency survives or the events line up with the message you try to convey.

I'm not a huge fan of either theme, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend they are something other than they are or deny the implications of what they mean going forward.

I have explained this a thousands times already, Nate. Do I really have to say this again? Fine. It is the best outcome I can see that at least appeases almost most of the fan bases. Sasuke gets to be the hero like people wanted. Naruto learns a lesson about life and how just because you failed in one aspect, doesn't mean you fail in another. Sasuke gets the punishment he deserves AND gets redemption at the same time.

I think Naruto should learn that lesson as well, but if he does I can't see Sasuke being the example. I think you can argue whether going out a hero is genuine punishment, especially if he gets to do it on his terms. Redemption....maybe. It depends.

By the way, it's not that I think a hero's death couldn't accomplish it. It could. In addition to this theme, there are other reasons why I simply think it will not happen. Among those that, at it's most basic core, this story is a hero's journey for Naruto. Sasuke is an element of that. If it were the other way around, I'd expect Sasuke to die and die tragically.

I don't know that this is what people want. Some Sasuke and SS fans? Sure, I bet some do. Many people who think that he will live still want him to get his comeuppance. I'm one of those. I'm just not going to cover my eyes and pretend that his death is how it will be accomplished or that it's the only method.

No matter what, Sasuke will NOT be remembered for his evil deeds anyway. Not by Naruto, not by the fans, no one.

By the fans? You serious? I've seen those things repeated so often on this forum that is simply impossible for me to believe that the fans won't remember those deeds.

People want Sasuke to be the hero, to live, to get the girl, to rebuild the clan. Some people don't want him to be punished at all BECAUSE of this stupid idiom. And that Naruto is so weak of heart and in love with Sasuke that any other outcome would be criminal to Naruto. He is such a pathetic hero that everyone in the village could die and he could live on, but god forbid Sasuke dies. Oh no, Naruto will commit suicide.

Again, I'm sure some fans do. But just because many of us think he will doesn't mean we want any of that. The idiom doesn't require any of that and your argument is just another strawman and a gross exaggeration AND simplification of those who believe Sasuke will live. You also constantly reduce the belief that Sasuke will live down to this idiom. I won't speak for anyone else, but it's not the only reason I feel that way.

At least this outcome lets Sasuke get praised for something he actually does and not because the idiom told us to or because we want Naruto to succeed. Not only that, but Naruto keeps his word at that.

You keep assume that because I think he will live I must therefore want certain things from his character and that those things are all good.

Understand? I much prefer Sasuke to die a horrible death at the hands of Tobi and suffer the rest of his existence, but no, we can't have that thanks to this idiom. So I like this outcome because it is not giving a free-ride, but instead gives him a chance to do good in his life. Understand now? I must have said this so many time. I at least wrote 5 books on why I like this ending better than most endings everyone else has come up with and for better reason than just because Naruto would be devastated that he didn't succeed.

Hey...nobody made you do anything. You could have ignored the question.

Unless you think Sasuke just saying "I'm sorry" is a better outcome?

You present his death and simple "I'm sorry" as the only two possibilities that exist. They aren't.

There is another factor you forgot. You don't necessarily have to revert back to the old ways after the Fourth Ninja War. In fact, Kishimoto could keep them friends for the rest of time, but eventually those generations die off and then later down the road some people from a newer generation might start the war all over again.

I didn't forget it. It's part of the basis for calling it simplistic.

I just don't think there will be a sequel.

[Sora no Kitsune]

I returned from inactivity for who knows how long to reply to this thread because i feel it has gotten out of hand. You guys aren't looking at the bigger picture, which is Kishimoto is losing his touch and might not even know where he's going with the story in terms of such tiny details as pairings. Who's to say there even will be pairings? Lets take a look.

In the story so far kishimoto has only directly displayed one pairing to have come to fruition: Kurenai/Asuma. So far they are the only pairing to actually get together and do something with it (and even then there wasn't much detail put into the pairing) Despite the fact they were secondary characters, they had a legitimate relationship and a baby in the process, thus being the only evidence of true romance in the series. With this in mind, I don't feel this series will have any more real romance in it and I'm positive Kishimoto won't be delving into anything in any great detail if he does, especially after seeing what happened with Hinata's confession (i.e. tossed aside and hidden under the blanket like it never happened) as well as the completely simplistic and one sided affections of each of the characters (i.e. Naruto->Sakura, Sakura->Sasuke, Hinata->Naruto). They haven't shown any real feelings or reasons to like the other and the topics haven't even been touched since the Pein Arc. While the idiom has a point and might ensue Naruto and Sakura will get together, there is little evidence kishimoto will actually display it in any detail, or even make it happen in the first place. For all we know Kishi could pull another giant twist out of his ass and toss the idiom into the dirt, showing a truly human and realistic occurrence of history repeating itself AND having childish idioms tossed aside in the face of cold, hard truths. At the moment though, there has been no truly meaningful Sakura moments, Hinata moments or Naruto flashback moments, and with the pace things are moving, nothing will happen until after the battle, which won't be anything more than a brief epilogue. I still feel there hasn't been enough ground for any pairing to actually occur, but if some do, they won't be as detailed or as satisfactory as we are hoping, of that i am sure.

[TerrorKing]

I agree that, even if NS becomes canon, It most likely won't be given all that much attention. Still, I'll repeat what I said a long time ago. I don't think that it's unreasonable to wan't Kishi to dedicate at least a couple of chapters to having Naruto and Sakura really sort of their feelings for each other. Hell, even 5 or 6 chapters isn't really that much considering that this series has already been going for 506 chapters. Also, if it true that the series won't end until 2014, then it will probably end up somewhere between 650 - 700 chapters.

[kirabook]

I returned from inactivity for who knows how long to reply to this thread because i feel it has gotten out of hand. You guys aren't looking at the bigger picture, which is Kishimoto is losing his touch and might not even know where he's going with the story in terms of such tiny details as pairings. Who's to say there even will be pairings? Lets take a look.

In the story so far kishimoto has only directly displayed one pairing to have come to fruition: Kurenai/Asuma. So far they are the only pairing to actually get together and do something with it (and even then there wasn't much detail put into the pairing) Despite the fact they were secondary characters, they had a legitimate relationship and a baby in the process, thus being the only evidence of true romance in the series. With this in mind, I don't feel this series will have any more real romance in it and I'm positive Kishimoto won't be delving into anything in any great detail if he does, especially after seeing what happened with Hinata's confession (i.e. tossed aside and hidden under the blanket like it never happened) as well as the completely simplistic and one sided affections of each of the characters (i.e. Naruto->Sakura, Sakura->Sasuke, Hinata->Naruto). They haven't shown any real feelings or reasons to like the other and the topics haven't even been touched since the Pein Arc. While the idiom has a point and might ensue Naruto and Sakura will get together, there is little evidence kishimoto will actually display it in any detail, or even make it happen in the first place. For all we know Kishi could pull another giant twist out of his ass and toss the idiom into the dirt, showing a truly human and realistic occurrence of history repeating itself AND having childish idioms tossed aside in the face of cold, hard truths. At the moment though, there has been no truly meaningful Sakura moments, Hinata moments or Naruto flashback moments, and with the pace things are moving, nothing will happen until after the battle, which won't be anything more than a brief epilogue. I still feel there hasn't been enough ground for any pairing to actually occur, but if some do, they won't be as detailed or as satisfactory as we are hoping, of that i am sure.

Kushina and Minato also got together, though it didn't happen over the course of the manga, it did happen, and they had a back story.

[MangaReader]

Watch the manga shift to a different story next week...just to add more suspension to story

[Kuraudo]

Kakashi, so damn genius. I love him.