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#26501 Nate River

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 01:13 AM

The impression I got was that Jiraiya turned down the offer of becoming hokage in favor of Minato. Orochimaru was once a good man before he became obsessed with immortality & knowledge, and was once Sarutobi's star pupil.

 

Orochimaru was a villain in part one but that was over once he was defeated by Tsunade allowing her to surpass the previous hokage by defeating him. But he couldn't be killed because he was the one that was going to train Sasuke, and the reason he leaves the village. So he stays around till he is defeated by Sasuke once he done training him, and sealed by Itachi once even his power was no longer needed. So that was the end of him.

 

However during the war arc someone got the bright idea that it would be great if some revived the old hokage, and had them join the good guys. However, not many people knew the resurrection technique. They couldn't use Kabuto because he needed to be defeated by Sasuke for his flip-flop again. So they brought back Orochimaru who knew the jutsu, and conveniently knew how to revive the hokage without grave-digging. So despite being a villain the was still evil, as well as still desiring Sasuke's body, but its the end of the world so he is helping the good guys. So he becoes a bored aid to Sasuke that help save the world, and because the story ends before they can deal with him. He is let go.

 

Then with the new series coming out they needed a third team member (clearly the lee clone was not good enough.) So an executive decision because orochimaru is popular, kishimoto out of spite, or someone thought it was a great idea; I don't know. Someone decided that Orochiumaru's son should be the third team-member allowing Orochimaru to remain relevant to the story. Though I doubt theme's were involved what so ever. Those were abandon with the rest of the story for Hinata.

 

I suspect the decision to do Boruto and to include his kid as character was made by this point and that was part of the reason Orochimaru was revived, if not the main reason. If they needed all the hokages Kabuto could have done it earlier and they could been broken free by say, Itachi, or some other ass pull. Coherence and internal consistent clearly hadn't been a big concern at that point.



#26502 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 02:10 AM

I suspect the decision to do Boruto and to include his kid as character was made by this point and that was part of the reason Orochimaru was revived, if not the main reason. If they needed all the hokages Kabuto could have done it earlier and they could been broken free by say, Itachi, or some other ass pull. Coherence and internal consistent clearly hadn't been a big concern at that point.

When did I say Orochimaru was brought back in order to have a kid for the next generation? He was revived way before Neji died which is the closest point in time kishimoto would have accepted nH ending, and the point talks about the next generation may have started. No. What I meant was the brought him back for popularity during the war arc."Then with the new series coming out they needed a third team member." And for whatever reason they wanted Orochimaru's son to be the third member.

 

Also Kabuto can't know how to revive the hokages because if he did why didn't he revive them for his army?



#26503 KClaws_2

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:47 AM

When did I say Orochimaru was brought back in order to have a kid for the next generation? He was revived way before Neji died which is the closest point in time kishimoto would have accepted nH ending, and the point talks about the next generation may have started. No. What I meant was the brought him back for popularity during the war arc."Then with the new series coming out they needed a third team member." And for whatever reason they wanted Orochimaru's son to be the third member.

 

Also Kabuto can't know how to revive the hokages because if he did why didn't he revive them for his army?

All the Hokage from Minato on up had their souls sealed by the Shinigami, which was why he couldn't.

 

Now how those masks worked to cut open the Shinigami and bring them back is a different story.



#26504 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 05:55 PM

Yeah, Orochimaru was such a good/interesting villain in the beginning. in fact, maybe even not straight-up a villain to begin with, because of how everyone else was so non-chalant about him being around. He seems to weave in and out of the storyline — Hiruzen's star pupil, the teammate worthy of saving by Jiraiya and possibly Tsunade, the post-Konoha nin who seems to still be able to charm people to team up with him, and the post-Akatsuki nin who either was liked enough or didn't pose enough of a threat after leaving Akatsuki that he was allowed to live. So he's a pretty complex character. Which is great when you have someone on the villain spectrum. 

 

Different from Itachi who is straight up bad news. Defected, murdered everyone, including his parents, his bff and his lover, and then only comes back to torture his brother. Even redeeming him in the end couldn't redeem him. He was just that bad.]]

 

But Orochimaru was central to the plot, had characters that revolved around him, a compelling backstory, and a complicated and even uncertain future. He wasn't as far gone as Itachi. (However yeah, he did kill off a few Kage, so...even if he did have a change of heart, he probably would have been put to death anyway!) But a lot of characters came out of his association. A LOT. Sai, Kabuto, Karin and Team Taka. Way more than Itachi brought.

 

Anyway, my point is, that Orochimaru was a vital character early on who impacted a lot of the storyline...but then who simply just fades away. Disappointing. So it makes it even more confusing/disappointing when they bring him back into the story, stripped of his original purpose and drive, and then use him as a plot foil.

 

That's why I sortof hate the character in Boruto who is his son(?) - it seems like such weak storytelling. I like your idea about how they could have treated Orochimaru differently.

 

Also, in trying to finish my fanfic, I've been thinking about Orochimaru lately, as well as Kabuto, Chiyo and Tsunade. There is so much in Naruto that could have been picked up on, even the tiniest bit, and fleshed out. But it wasn't. Like all these character (plus a few more) are healers. That's their storyline. But none of that is woven into a single bit of backstory about how Tsunade and Orochimaru got their skills, even though they were teammates. And there is no residual competition between Sakura and Kabuto as you would expect there would be between the apprentices of the two best medics-types in the Narutoverse.

 

Let's just say that, in an effort to build out Sakura's backstory, I'm exploring that avenue.... :D And it's funny because early on in writing it, I didn't really have any thought about adding Orochimaru to the fanfic. But now thinking that he and Tsunade grew up together, both trained extensively in some kind of medical ninjutsu, both grew into adulthood with some major character flaws, and both have highly gifted young apprentices...why didn't Kishimoto play up that angle more? It's like built in tension for Sakura with an opponent for her to overcome in Kabuto, plus revealing Tsunade and Orochimaru's backstory. It would have been so easy!

Funny thing is that one of the very first things he says when he's resurrected by Sasuke is that he STILL wanted Sasuke's body....and then nothing. Never brought up again.


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#26505 jak123

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 06:01 PM

Funny thing is that one of the very first things he says when he's resurrected by Sasuke is that he STILL wanted Sasuke's body....and then nothing. Never brought up again.

They dropped a lot of the Orochimaru plots.



#26506 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 07:05 PM

They dropped a lot of the Orochimaru plots.

They dropped a lot of plots in general.



#26507 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 09:56 PM

They dropped a lot of plots in general.

 

Along with a lot of characters possible growth. Sometimes I wonder if there was a plan by Kishi for some stuff, and it keeps making me think for my fanfic how I wanna make things work so I don't forget plots I've had in mind.



#26508 hisaberpie

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 05:27 PM

Shounen jump celebrating 50 years of heroines. I wish salad wasn't there.

 

iuu5yysg9pn11.jpg



#26509 Nostradamus

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 06:17 PM

Shounen jump celebrating 50 years of heroines. I wish salad wasn't there.

 

iuu5yysg9pn11.jpg

Two DB characters. Nice.


Edited by Nostradamus, 22 September 2018 - 06:17 PM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#26510 jak123

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 07:02 PM

Shounen jump celebrating 50 years of heroines. I wish salad wasn't there.

 

iuu5yysg9pn11.jpg

But I've been told that Sakura wasn't the heroine of Naruto. Even though she clearly was.

 

Also, it sucks to see what happened to Rukia when she clearly was the heroine of Bleach. Became a useless side character who married one of the most annoying characters in the entire series. 


Edited by jak123, 22 September 2018 - 07:03 PM.


#26511 DrK

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 07:13 PM

It says a lot that that's the art for Sakura that they went with. Like looking at the art for Nami and Bulma etc you really get a lot from their character out of it. The facial expression and the lines etc. Whoever chose it obviously didn't really like her that much (not that anyone could blame them for that now.)

 

That shot is so generic. I don't even know where it's from, since she has the seal but she's not wearing her war arc outfit. It's really bland and it doesn't say anything about her. Which makes a lot of sense because her positive traits were surgically removed so that they could ruin the franchise and make less money.

 

And once again Sarada doesn't look like her. She looks like Fem Sasuke. If you showed this cover to anyone what would they say if you asked them if those two were mother and daughter?


Edited by DrK, 22 September 2018 - 07:18 PM.


#26512 Moon_Girl

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 07:43 PM

Shounen jump celebrating 50 years of heroines. I wish salad wasn't there.

 

iuu5yysg9pn11.jpg

I thought Hinata was the 'true heroine'.

Oh wait.  :fu:

Salad really doesn't belong there.

Oh hey, there's a lack of Rosario+Vampire... :umm:


Edited by Moon_Girl, 22 September 2018 - 07:46 PM.

NaruSaku will always be better than crack and fan fiction
 

#26513 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 07:46 PM

But I've been told that Sakura wasn't the heroine of Naruto. Even though she clearly was.

 

Also, it sucks to see what happened to Rukia when she clearly was the heroine of Bleach. Became a useless side character who married one of the most annoying characters in the entire series. 

She was for 15 years, and beyond some schemes from SP she remained so; especially in the eyes of the readers in Japan.

 

Kubo stated several times long before the ending Ichigo, and Rukia relationship wasn't romantic. It was also clear that IO, and RR were the intended pairings. Their a difference between a last minute change that destroys the story, and an intended pairing that you don't like.

 

It says a lot that that's the art for Sakura that they went with. Like looking at the art for Nami and Bulma etc you really get a lot from their character out of it. The facial expression and the lines etc. Whoever chose it obviously didn't really like her that much (not that anyone could blame them for that now.)

 

That shot is so generic. I don't even know where it's from, since she has the seal but she's not wearing her war arc outfit. It's really bland and it doesn't say anything about her. Which makes a lot of sense because her positive traits were surgically removed so that they could ruin the franchise and make less money.

 

And once again Sarada doesn't look like her. She looks like Fem Sasuke. If you showed this cover to anyone what would they say if you asked them if those two were mother and daughter?

It looks like most of those images are from cover art (I even recognize a few)...But it is actually shocking how low quality Sakura's image is compared to the rest. She actually become the character that your eye is drawn to because of it. The rest sort of blend in together if you look at them long enough.

 

It honestly look like they took her iconic pose from part 2 where she's putting the gloves on, added her diamond seal, and then colored it. Looks like the did the same to Bulma, the taking a page image and coloring it, or is that from a cover who knows?

 

You can only really dress her like Sakura which kishimoto did by the gaiden to address the complaint that she looks nothing like her mother, but you are right she is SK's daughter that was turned into a SS's daughter at the last minute.

 

I thought Hinata was the 'true heroine'.

Oh wait.  :fu:

Only from the ending to the last...a time that Shounen jump wants everyone to forget about.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 September 2018 - 07:03 AM.


#26514 hisaberpie

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 07:53 PM

It says a lot that that's the art for Sakura that they went with. Like looking at the art for Nami and Bulma etc you really get a lot from their character out of it. The facial expression and the lines etc. Whoever chose it obviously didn't really like her that much (not that anyone could blame them for that now.)

 

That shot is so generic. I don't even know where it's from, since she has the seal but she's not wearing her war arc outfit. It's really bland and it doesn't say anything about her. Which makes a lot of sense because her positive traits were surgically removed so that they could ruin the franchise and make less money.

 

And once again Sarada doesn't look like her. She looks like Fem Sasuke. If you showed this cover to anyone what would they say if you asked them if those two were mother and daughter?

 

I agree with you. Salad looks like shes from a whole other manga.



#26515 Yyubie

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 08:02 PM

Agreed with DrK , and pretty much everyone. The first thing i immediately do when i saw that cover is searching for Hinata ... weird right? but it's what i feel , because they said Hinata is the new heroine replacing Sakura , but where is she?.

 

And looking at Bulma and Rukia , they were both drawn with their "NEWEST" model , that Bulma is from Dragon Ball Super , and that Rukia is from the last arc (Quinshi invasion arc before the last chapter). But why they didn't use Sakura from the newest model in the Boruto anime or from the Gaiden? why they still using Sakura from Shippuden? :confused:

 

And about Salad .... well i have nothing to say except she's just a waste of space. They should put Lucy or maybe Asuka (i mean they put Anzu from yugioh season 1 why not add another one?).


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#26516 Nostradamus

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 10:52 PM

Hinata is the heroine for SP, but not because she's heroine material, but because they fantasize about her and being with her along with her fanbase.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#26517 jak123

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 10:59 PM

 

 

Kubo stated several times long before the ending Ichigo, and Rukia relationship wasn't romantic. It was also clear that IO, and RR were the intended pairings. Their a difference between a last minute change that destroys the story, and an intended pairing that you don't like.

 

 

 

The problem with that though is that Rukia and Ichigo had way better chemistry with each other than he ever did with Orihime and she ever did with Renji. If he had it planned that way, he did it wrong. Orihime felt like she had a shallow crush on Ichigo like Sakura had on Sasuke. Frankly, Orihime had the best chemistry with Chad. Rukia ending up with Renji felt like she only ended up with Renji because she didn't end up with Ichigo. I would have been less surprised if Rukia ended up with her "brother". 


Edited by jak123, 22 September 2018 - 11:02 PM.


#26518 Yyubie

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 01:57 AM

 

The problem with that though is that Rukia and Ichigo had way better chemistry with each other than he ever did with Orihime and she ever did with Renji. If he had it planned that way, he did it wrong. Orihime felt like she had a shallow crush on Ichigo like Sakura had on Sasuke. Frankly, Orihime had the best chemistry with Chad. Rukia ending up with Renji felt like she only ended up with Renji because she didn't end up with Ichigo. I would have been less surprised if Rukia ended up with her "brother". 

Bold , So you think Ichigo x Inoue is almost the same like Sakura x Sasuke ?

 

Second bold , where did you see Inoue and Chad have chemistry ?


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#26519 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 02:42 AM

And looking at Bulma and Rukia , they were both drawn with their "NEWEST" model , that Bulma is from Dragon Ball Super , and that Rukia is from the last arc (Quinshi invasion arc before the last chapter). But why they didn't use Sakura from the newest model in the Boruto anime or from the Gaiden? why they still using Sakura from Shippuden? :confused:

 

And about Salad .... well i have nothing to say except she's just a waste of space. They should put Lucy or maybe Asuka (i mean they put Anzu from yugioh season 1 why not add another one?).

Because that's her Iconic look, and that could be a jab saying, "Naruto doesn't continue into Boruto." Who knows.

 

Lucy is owned by a competitor magazine, and Asuka is an anime created character even if NGE had a manga on WSJ she isn't their character...why is their not a single Yu-gi-oH girl on there? No wait Anzu is near the top. Right next to the girl from Act-Age.

Bold, So you think Ichigo x Inoue is almost the same like Sakura x Sasuke ?

 

Second bold, where did you see Inoue and Chad have chemistry ?

I always figured Ishida was the spare for Orihime. Didn't Chad try to get Ichigo to notice Orihime new outfit in the last arc? Anyways he seemed like the guy that would have either ended up with one of the girls we didn't get much focus on or no one at all. Those two were close because they were the two "who do anything for Ichigo but are useless in a fight."


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 September 2018 - 02:55 AM.


#26520 Toy Ninja

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 02:54 AM

Shounen jump celebrating 50 years of heroines. I wish salad wasn't there.

 

 

Well Misa Amane is there so they clearly didn't set the bar very high for what they consider a heroine to be..







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