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Who's the heroine? Sakura or Hinata?


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#41 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 05:38 PM

You're right, Sasuke is not the hero and Hinata the heroine, but the way these final chapters are made up and the way this movie is going to portray Hinata and her "role" in this...it is almost like they are trying to make us see them as such.

Probably but Sasuke didnt ended the story being a hero, he was pardoned for his crimes in a retarded way and the whole problem with the shinobi world was skipped, to be honest nothing was solved.

Kishimoto is goign to portray Hinata as his wife and show how they got canon, and i could not care less, Naruto ended as being an absent father with his kid wanting attention from him.

He hasnt give any clues that he surpassed the previous kages neither surpassed his own father.

Sasuke is a traveler.

I dont know what Kishimoto did with that but NS not happening did the least damage to the story overall, the whole kitten of the final chatpter was enough, the lack of development of Sakura is ridiculous she's dull, she's only the main heroine in name, she has nothing, no dreams, hope, objectives it's a total absence of personality.

Naruto's goals are absent too, what he did accomplished on the final chapter? he only saved Sasuke which in turn somehow saved the world, and changed the shinobi world i guess.

 

Even before the ending i was already disappointed with the series but the last chapter made me regret having read/watched it, should have give up before.


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#42 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 10:51 PM

Probably but Sasuke didnt ended the story being a hero, he was pardoned for his crimes in a retarded way and the whole problem with the shinobi world was skipped, to be honest nothing was solved.

Kishimoto is goign to portray Hinata as his wife and show how they got canon, and i could not care less, Naruto ended as being an absent father with his kid wanting attention from him.

He hasnt give any clues that he surpassed the previous kages neither surpassed his own father.

Sasuke is a traveler.

I dont know what Kishimoto did with that but NS not happening did the least damage to the story overall, the whole bullsh** of the final chatpter was enough, the lack of development of Sakura is ridiculous she's dull, she's only the main heroine in name, she has nothing, no dreams, hope, objectives it's a total absence of personality.

Naruto's goals are absent too, what he did accomplished on the final chapter? he only saved Sasuke which in turn somehow saved the world, and changed the shinobi world i guess.

 

Even before the ending i was already disappointed with the series but the last chapter made me regret having read/watched it, should have give up before.

Never thought I'd find myself saying this given our history, but I agree with you 100%, Dark.

It's funny, it took this indecency to make us come closer. XD


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#43 MangaReader

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:13 PM

Naruto lost the hero title basically when he was given a free pass on the power up


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#44 Kamina-Yoshi

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:20 PM

Every time someone writes "heroine", I keep thinking of "heroin". It explains a lot about this ending, to be honest.



#45 Iwantbuns

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 01:41 AM

Sakura was the heroine. But it seems like Hinata's gonna take that role now. That used to sound so nice in my ears before, but I didn't want it to happen like this. Sakura's character had so much potential, and Kishi just dumped it. But he takes Hinata's underdeveloped character and makes it shine. What is that?


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Why do people NOT ship these two? I just don't get it.

Probably cause they hate Sakura. When she's probably the most developed female character in the whole show.

I respect Hinata, but Sakura deserves some too.


#46 Tiller

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 01:59 AM

I enjoy reading manga for the same reason I enjoy reading any good work of art/literature. Because I like reading the stories.

 

But lately I keep hearing that "in Japan a heroine is the main character's love interest". Now I've never heard that before, and I've never really noticed it. So, I figured I'd throw it out to the more knowledgeable of us out there. To the real Japanophiles out there, or hell people who actually are in Japan if we have some.

 

Cause to me it just sounds like a BS excuse, but I can say I honestly don't know.



 


#47 harry4e

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 02:45 AM

This manga has no Heroine, a Heroine would not sacrifice her entire being for a man. A Heroine would be a role model for girls who read the story, a Female lead who teaches the young audience that you should fall in love with the first person you like, never even look elsewhere, Focus all your dreams and hope just to improve your chances of getting the person you like to notice you.

 

That is not a heroine, the only female charactors that came close to being Heroines were Temari and TenTen, they only had bit roles in the manga and looks like in the end they gave up on their dreams as well.


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#48 Princess Iris

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 09:39 AM

Sakura was the heroine. But it seems like Hinata's gonna take that role now. That used to sound so nice in my ears before, but I didn't want it to happen like this. Sakura's character had so much potential, and Kishi just dumped it. But he takes Hinata's underdeveloped character and makes it shine. What is that?


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#49 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 01:14 PM

Sakura was the heroine. But it seems like Hinata's gonna take that role now. That used to sound so nice in my ears before, but I didn't want it to happen like this. Sakura's character had so much potential, and Kishi just dumped it. But he takes Hinata's underdeveloped character and makes it shine. What is that?

I think people should stop saying Hinata is the heroine now, give the tratment of female characters, Hinata will be most play a secondary role as his wife and nothing less.

Sakura is still the heroine, but a bad one, she had nothing else of personal development other than the romance subplot, and it went back to the initial point on the final chapter, he goal to help Naruto/Sasuke is a role of a supportive character not a main, both Sakura and Hinata lack objectives of their own, that doesnt make them heroines.

Sakura is the main heroine but plays like a support character like the k11 and even some of the k11 had a better development than her like Ino while taking out Sasuke she had her own problems, and had her own development without being focused on "Muh pairings".


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#50 Konohakitten

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 06:21 PM

Sakura was always the heroine in my eyes, but thanks to poor writing she took too long to fill those shoes properly. This is why a good amount of people call her useless. All her bad ass moments always came too late, or they were overshadowed by someone else, in this case by Hinata. Sakura's biggest hit as heroine is when Hinata confessed. I remember Kishi said that Hinata acted more like a heroine by doing that and he wanted to write Sakura more into her role as time went on, but he failed, the damage was already done. In my eyes Hinata actions were selfish since she put Naruto in even more danger, and Sakura staying out of things showed her undying faith in him, but NH fans, and Sakura haters couldn't see that. 

 

Sakura's label of useless followed her throughout the entire manga, but I do believe that Kishi intended her to be the heroine he just butchered her up like he did all his characters. I mean the CPR scene was big, if she hadn't pumped Naruto's heart he'd be dead, there's no denying it. What made it even more significant is that Hinata who didn't have to appear was shown falling on her face. Like really? Why show us that if it meant nothing? Then we have her by Naruto and Sasuke side during their finally fight where she hits a god in the head. It was during this time that people started giving her props,but they all wanted to know what took her so long. However once everything was said and done Sakura just goes and executes herself. All the harsh words that haters used to described her came true in the last two chapters.

 

I don't think I'll ever understand what Kishi was doing with Hinata and Sakura. He handled both their characters horribly, but instead of making his mind up he went back and for with them. It's like we were never given a clear answer on who the leading lady was. We'd have Sakura being all bad ass and then Hinata would steal the spot light, just for it to go back to Sakura. It's just a mess and now with The Last they want to make Hinata the heroine, but in all honesty she's far from it. Do they want to make her heroine just because Naruto is the hero? I mean in my eyes the heroine is the strong one, the one that can take on anything for her friends,and that's Sakura. Hinata would do the same I guess but she is in no way anywhere near Sakura's skill level, but it seems that that doesn't matter, because being the heroine is all about getting into the hero pants.


Edited by Konohakitten, 19 November 2014 - 07:05 PM.

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#51 Qia

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 06:26 PM

Sakura was always the heroine in my eyes, but thanks to poor writing she took too long to fill those shoes properly. This is why a good amount of people call her useless. All her bad ass moments always came too late, or they were overshadowed by someone else, in this case by Hinata. Sakura's biggest hit as heroine is when Hinata confessed. I remember Kishi said that Hinata acted more like a heroine by doing that and he wanted to write Sakura more into her role as time went on, but he failed, the damage was already done. In my eyes Hinata actions were selfish since she put Naruto in even more danger, and Sakura staying out of things showed her undying faith in him, but NH fans, and Sakura haters couldn't see that. 

 

Sakura's label of useless followed her throughout the entire manga, but I do believe that Kishi intended her to be the heroine he just butchered her up like he did all his characters. I mean the CPR scene was big, if she hadn't pumped Naruto's heart he'd be dead, there's no denying it. What made it even more significant is that Hinata who didn't have to appear was shown falling on her face. Like really? Why show us that if it meant nothing? Then we have her by Naruto and Sasuke side during their finally fight where she hits a god in the head. It was during this time that people started giving her props,but they all wanted to know what took her so long. However once everything was said and done Sakura just goes and executes herself. All the harsh words that haters used to described her came true in the last two chapters.

 

I don't think I'll ever understand what Kishi was doing with Hinata and Sakura. He handled both their characters horribly, but instead of making his mind up he went back and for with them. It's like we were never given a clear answer on who the leading lady was. We'd have Sakura being all bad ass and then Hinata would steal the spot light, just for it to go back to Sakura. It's just a mess and now with The Last they want to make Hinata the heroine, but in all honesty she's far from it. Do they want to make her heroine just because Naruto is the hero? I mean in my eyes the heroine is the strong one, the one that can take on anything for her friends,and that's Sakura. Hinata would do the same I guess but she is in no way anywhere near Sakura's skill level, but it seems that that doesn't matter, because being the heroine is all about getting in the hero pants.

It's actually sad how it seems that way. :ermm: *shudders*


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#52 shisui

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 08:38 PM

Sakura.

 

Kishimoto said it in his most recent interview as well. Sasuke is the rival, Sakura is the heroine.



#53 Iwantbuns

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 01:41 AM

Hinata seems to be getting a lot of attention for the few things that she does, even though Sakura's done much more. She's worked much harder, endured much more, and developed a heck of a lot more. Yet it feels like Hinata's the one who's taking credit for it. Hinata seems to shine more as long as Sakura is downplayed some more. Make Naruto randomly hook up with the "better" girl, and let Sasuke get the girl who resorted to fangirling like in Part 1.

 

In this manga, what I got now is Hinata > Sakura. When that's obviously not the case. Kishi made it the case though.


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Why do people NOT ship these two? I just don't get it.

Probably cause they hate Sakura. When she's probably the most developed female character in the whole show.

I respect Hinata, but Sakura deserves some too.


#54 shisui

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 05:45 AM

How did it make the case? One movie doesn't change the manga.



#55 James S Cassidy

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 08:28 AM

How did it make the case? One movie doesn't change the manga.

Apparently it does seeing how it wants to rewrite it all.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 20 November 2014 - 08:28 AM.

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#56 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 08:38 AM

Apparently it does seeing how it wants to rewrite it all.

 

Which is just PATHETIC to the nth degree. Dare I go on?



#57 Lady_duckish

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 09:06 AM

Hinata is the heroine of this movie, but I dont think that makes her the heroine of the manga. It takes more to be the heroine than be with the lead. I remember JKR saying Hermione was still her female lead, despite Harry's relationship with Ginny and it shows. Ginny had her moments but ultimately Hermione is THE girl of the Harry Potter franchise. I dont think Hinata getting shine in the finale stretch of the manga makes her the female lead or the heroine. 


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#58 tricksie

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 02:08 PM

Hinata is the heroine of this movie, but I dont think that makes her the heroine of the manga. It takes more to be the heroine than be with the lead. I remember JKR saying Hermione was still her female lead, despite Harry's relationship with Ginny and it shows. Ginny had her moments but ultimately Hermione is THE girl of the Harry Potter franchise. I dont think Hinata getting shine in the finale stretch of the manga makes her the female lead or the heroine. 

 

I've always thought what JKR did with the Harry Potter series was commendable. She made the female lead be a definite friend role, while the secondary girl was the love interest. And she never betrayed those two roles, confused or muddied them, made a love triangle, or belittled either girl for the sake of the story. (Of course, people could've shipped or hoped for different pairings, but that's a different story.)

 

Because JKR took care in building her story that way. She never swapped the character's importance once Harry's interest was determined. Ginny didn't slide forward and edge Hermione out of her spot as an equal and irreplaceable member of the three. Hermione didn't fall backward and become less important to the story.

 

That's not what's happening here. As evidenced by the last two chapters, the movie and the series, Kishimoto is pushing Sakura out of the storyline and replacing her with Hinata.

 

It's not as simple as just a little attention for Hinata at the end. Sakura's the active character wheras Hinata's the passive one. Even the plot of this movie, with Hinata apparently as the damsel in distress that Naruto has to save which suddenly awakens his latent feelings, is the most stereotypical passive romance storyline ever.

 

What makes Sakura the main heroine of the story is not that she's designated to be so. It's her capacity to change. She recognized that she didn't like who she was in part one, and decided to change for herself and those around her. And she did, becoming the best kunoichi and the top medic.

 

Hinata's capacity to change is significantly less, thus she is a secondary character.

 

A better analogy from Naruto to HP would be Harry pairing with Luna, rather than Ginny. Luna, a sweet girl who has her moments of bravery, but who is ultimately is a passive type character with limited skills that only work in conjunction with those around her. And who's never been on Harry's radar at all.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's so casual as Hinata just getting her moment in the sun. The authors/editors have apparently changed the direction of the whole series. And in doing so, they had to remove Sakura from the mix. Why? Because Sakura clearly is the heroine and the love interest, and if she's still in the storyline then there's no way someone like Naruto would fall for someone like Hinata. 

 

Ultimately they're not just removing Sakura from the storyline, they're radically changing Naruto too. 

 

Sure Hinata may be the heroine of this movie. But if that's the case, then this is no longer a story I'm interested in. If I want to see damsels-in-distress who finally get the love they deserve, through no action of their own, then I'll go down to the grocery story and buy a bodice-ripper romance.

 

What made Naruto and Sakura stand out and perfect for each other in the manga was that they were two active, modern characters in an old-fashioned shinobi-era world, both working in tandem to break set rules and change the world around them. By removing Sakura, for all intents and purposes, and replacing her with gentle, passive, old-fashioned clan princess Hinata, it takes the steam out of the storyline. The hook is gone. The story becomes a reward story for Hinata, and all the emphasis on Naruto and changing their world through their own actions is swallowed up by it.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be a LAP. You're post just set me thinking. I think the editors/author/marketing department want us to believe it's a simple thing. That Naruto's just the same as ever, Sakura's still the same girl as before, although *coughcough* you're just not going to see much of her anymore *coughcough* and oh look! Now Hinata's the love interest! 

 

But taking away one of Naruto's main goals, one that shaped the course of his life, is like knocking a leg out from underneath a chair. It never sits quite right again.

 

Replacing Sakura as the heroine in the story with Hinata, even for a moment, confuses the whole thing. And we know that once's they've done that, they're not going back. It's Hinata from here on out. Sakura will fall back to being a secondary character.

 

If JKR had done this to her characters, paired Harry with Luna, made her the star of the show, and dropped both Hermione and Ginny back to secondary roles, I doubt people would stick that series either.



#59 Narufan85

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 03:22 PM

 

I've always thought what JKR did with the Harry Potter series was commendable. She made the female lead be a definite friend role, while the secondary girl was the love interest. And she never betrayed those two roles, confused or muddied them, made a love triangle, or belittled either girl for the sake of the story. (Of course, people could've shipped or hoped for different pairings, but that's a different story.)

 

Because JKR took care in building her story that way. She never swapped the character's importance once Harry's interest was determined. Ginny didn't slide forward and edge Hermione out of her spot as an equal and irreplaceable member of the three. Hermione didn't fall backward and become less important to the story.

 

That's not what's happening here. As evidenced by the last two chapters, the movie and the series, Kishimoto is pushing Sakura out of the storyline and replacing her with Hinata.

 

It's not as simple as just a little attention for Hinata at the end. Sakura's the active character wheras Hinata's the passive one. Even the plot of this movie, with Hinata apparently as the damsel in distress that Naruto has to save which suddenly awakens his latent feelings, is the most stereotypical passive romance storyline ever.

 

What makes Sakura the main heroine of the story is not that she's designated to be so. It's her capacity to change. She recognized that she didn't like who she was in part one, and decided to change for herself and those around her. And she did, becoming the best kunoichi and the top medic.

 

Hinata's capacity to change is significantly less, thus she is a secondary character.

 

A better analogy from Naruto to HP would be Harry pairing with Luna, rather than Ginny. Luna, a sweet girl who has her moments of bravery, but who is ultimately is a passive type character with limited skills that only work in conjunction with those around her. And who's never been on Harry's radar at all.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's so casual as Hinata just getting her moment in the sun. The authors/editors have apparently changed the direction of the whole series. And in doing so, they had to remove Sakura from the mix. Why? Because Sakura clearly is the heroine and the love interest, and if she's still in the storyline then there's no way someone like Naruto would fall for someone like Hinata. 

 

Ultimately they're not just removing Sakura from the storyline, they're radically changing Naruto too. 

 

Sure Hinata may be the heroine of this movie. But if that's the case, then this is no longer a story I'm interested in. If I want to see damsels-in-distress who finally get the love they deserve, through no action of their own, then I'll go down to the grocery story and buy a bodice-ripper romance.

 

What made Naruto and Sakura stand out and perfect for each other in the manga was that they were two active, modern characters in an old-fashioned shinobi-era world, both working in tandem to break set rules and change the world around them. By removing Sakura, for all intents and purposes, and replacing her with gentle, passive, old-fashioned clan princess Hinata, it takes the steam out of the storyline. The hook is gone. The story becomes a reward story for Hinata, and all the emphasis on Naruto and changing their world through their own actions is swallowed up by it.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be a LAP. You're post just set me thinking. I think the editors/author/marketing department want us to believe it's a simple thing. That Naruto's just the same as ever, Sakura's still the same girl as before, although *coughcough* you're just not going to see much of her anymore *coughcough* and oh look! Now Hinata's the love interest! 

 

But taking away one of Naruto's main goals, one that shaped the course of his life, is like knocking a leg out from underneath a chair. It never sits quite right again.

 

Replacing Sakura as the heroine in the story with Hinata, even for a moment, confuses the whole thing. And we know that once's they've done that, they're not going back. It's Hinata from here on out. Sakura will fall back to being a secondary character.

 

If JKR had done this to her characters, paired Harry with Luna, made her the star of the show, and dropped both Hermione and Ginny back to secondary roles, I doubt people would stick that series either.

 

JKR also made the right decision of showing you who Harry's love interest would be right from the start, when he looked back at platform 9 3/4 as the train pulled away and his attention was drawn to Ginny running after the train. Had Kishi made pairings clear from Part I, and stuck to his guns, then we'd all be here posting on NaruHina.com. But he didn't. He showed growth and evolution and we saw the bonds between Naruto and Sakura grow and mature. I think your reference to a modern relationship in a traditional world a sound one.

What frustrates me, and I've mentioned this previously, is that Kishi validates criticisms of Sakura. Yes, she had a moment in the sun against Sasori. Yes, she had a moment in the sun alongside Naruto and Sasuke against the Juubi. And yes, she had two more with the CPR moment and against Kaguya. But look at how much of those final chapters are about Sakura's feelings. Kakashi constantly mentions them, her begging Sasuke not to fight Naruto, and her begging him to take her with him. It's maddening and insulting.

 

But what bothers me most, is that we see those bonds with Naruto completely ignored in 699! Sasuke just tried to kill Naruto, but she shows no concern for him, no appreciation. She's reduced to her lovestruck fangirl from Part I and shunted off to the house.



#60 tricksie

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 03:31 PM

 

JKR also made the right decision of showing you who Harry's love interest would be right from the start, when he looked back at platform 9 3/4 as the train pulled away and his attention was drawn to Ginny running after the train. Had Kishi made pairings clear from Part I, and stuck to his guns, then we'd all be here posting on NaruHina.com. But he didn't. He showed growth and evolution and we saw the bonds between Naruto and Sakura grow and mature. I think your reference to a modern relationship in a traditional world a sound one.

What frustrates me, and I've mentioned this previously, is that Kishi validates criticisms of Sakura. Yes, she had a moment in the sun against Sasori. Yes, she had a moment in the sun alongside Naruto and Sasuke against the Juubi. And yes, she had two more with the CPR moment and against Kaguya. But look at how much of those final chapters are about Sakura's feelings. Kakashi constantly mentions them, her begging Sasuke not to fight Naruto, and her begging him to take her with him. It's maddening and insulting.

 

But what bothers me most, is that we see those bonds with Naruto completely ignored in 699! Sasuke just tried to kill Naruto, but she shows no concern for him, no appreciation. She's reduced to her lovestruck fangirl from Part I and shunted off to the house.

 

QFT. Truer words have never been spoken.






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