31576 replies to this topic

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

For as long as read the series, Kishi is halfhearted when it comes to romantic relationships in Naruto. Him giving up on Sakura character after Sand Arc was not only her final moments of being the female lead in Kishi's head (as he switched to Sasuke), it was the sole reason why we have the pairings as it is.

Kishi forcing himself to comeback to the Naruto franchise just because he failed to profit from his discontinued comic is beyond laughable.

My opinion is that Kishi's should reeevaluate his skills and turn over a new leaf and just work with many writers because all he's good at is illustration.

Even if that myth was true, no company would be happy with the excuse for low sales being, "they don't like Boruto, so they didn't buy a side manga made for them." Especially, since Boruto happened by making the end pairings nH/SS. 
 
Sakura lost her position due to fan-polling being used as a weapon against her, now 8 or so years later she is the third most popular character around the world. So she likely has both the data we can and cannot see behind her.
 
I think part of the reason they are focusing on Boruto right now beyond the years of low sales is; like how its happened in hopes of it keeping Naruto sales going when there at the time nothing to replace it. Now, most of the manga that did replace it are largely ending this year with nothing coming up seeming to be able to replace them. But instead of hoping it can hold up their figures while they wait for the new generation of shounen manga to make them money. They are finally looking at Boruto as its lost the manga that used to subsidize it. So now they pondering should they keep it around or just end it.
 
"What Kishi should've done: focus on making a good story, ignore the noises coming from the fandom. Especially the loud ones (looking at you NH/SS)." I'm pretty sure kishimoto made a comment like this after the ending...of course it backfired as the Japanese fans thought he was talking about them. I still think he was talking about his editors.
 

In theory, the genjutsu wasn't re-writing memories just showing Naruto and Hinata events that did happen. Showing Naruto that Hinata was always by his side, always loved him, and that they are bound by the red scarf of fate. Granted still a retcon by the anime staff
 
If you want an in-universe reason for why it happened. Ironically, Boruto last chapter gives a possible reason; an Otsutsuki likely used the shinjutsu 'Omnipotence' to rewrite the world so Naruto marries Hinata. So Boruto can be born. So femmy can possess his body. Of course, even with their minds re-written once Naruto and Hinata actually got together their lack of any chemistry made their marriage what it became.

Well do forgive me for that my knowledge comes from the final chapter of Naruto and the one-shot volume Naruto gaiden manga.

To my understanding that Kishi took over the previous author for the Boruto manga and killed off Kurama. That's pretty much I know sofar.

Kishi having to be hired back to perhaps ruined any chances of NS reboot, so it's reasonable that he cleans up after his mess with, starting with the canon relationships (unfortunately).

[Bail o' Lies]

For as long as read the series, Kishi is halfhearted when it comes to romantic relationships in Naruto. Him giving up on Sakura character after Sand Arc was not only her final moments of being the female lead in Kishi's head (as he switched to Sasuke), it was the sole reason why we have the pairings as it is.

Kishi forcing himself to comeback to the Naruto franchise just because he failed to profit from his discontinued comic is beyond laughable.

My opinion is that Kishi's should reeevaluate his skills and turn over a new leaf and just work with many writers because all he's good at is illustration.


Well do forgive me for that my knowledge comes from the final chapter of Naruto and the one-shot volume Naruto gaiden manga.

To my understanding that Kishi took over the previous author for the Boruto manga and killed off Kurama. That's pretty much I know sofar.

Kishi having to be hired back to perhaps ruined any chances of NS reboot, so it's reasonable that he cleans up after his mess with, starting with the canon relationships (unfortunately).

Kishimoto returned as an advisor, a position he had before leaving to do Samurai 8. I tended to go back and forth on certain things due to not having much information. However, the story of Boruto has not really changed that much whether kishimoto was there or not. So, as far as I can tell the story is made by Ikemoto with Kishimoto giving him some advice and ideas if asked. So I do not consider Kishimoto the writer of this, as no matter how bad he was, he should have had some overall effect on the story...at least more then what I saw. 

 

Though, I see his coming back more being order back to try to help fix Boruto then crawling back. Doesn't help him or Boruto either way though.

 

I see Kishimoto is good at characters, their introductions, and initial ideas. His problems are follow-through and plotting his story.

 

I just see this as the companies scratching their heads to try to make Naruto-Boruto profitable again. The obvious solution is NS, but they are likely not going to go for it

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 June 2023 - 07:24 AM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

My feeling is that Sakura was always "popular" maybe not as popular here in the west as in some other places, but she wasn't so hated that it warranted losing panel time/position as the "heroine" and love interest. What these poll results actually tell me is that all the Hinata fans have mostly left the franchise for one reason or another and that Sakura's fans linger. 

I don't think its due to SS happening, I just think Sakura's endearing enough to people that she left a lasting impression on them. It wouldn't have mattered who she ended up with in the long run because the main draw is HER. 

As for Hinata, she really doesn't have anything substantial to her in the OG manga or in Burrito. She tries suiciding for Naruto twice, gets her cousin killed, knits a scarf to replace Naruto's dead mom's scarf. BECOMES BYAKUGAN PRINCESSU!! gets married, has kids. She's not doing anything outside of Naruto, seems retired from service. Even her clans "issues" are magically resolved without her help. Her son complains about being lonely "suck it up bucko." the village gets attacked or w/e "OH KIDS TAKE CARE OF YOUR FATHER!!" meanwhile, Sakura is raising her kid (alone.) if her kid's in trouble she goes berserk and protects THEM like a mom should. She's still working (someones gotta put food on the table and pay them bills. Ain't gonna be the Sauce.   ) Still fighting, so she's got the cool-factor left. 

Why would/should Hinata's popularity eclipse Sakura's? 

 

Sakura always had appeal as an insecure girl trying to figure out her place in the world and what she was going to do. This however was overshadowed by people that saw her as a friend-zoning slut that hit Naruto and was obsessed over Sasuke like an annoying fangirl. Kishimoto was too slow and indecisive in getting her away from that image.

 

The side manga, the poll result, and anything happening in the Boruto anime is probably why she is having more defenders recently.

To me, Sakura always came across as a mentally normal teenage girl. Yes, she could be a kitten, she could be bossy, haughty with a hair trigger temper, but she could also be insecure, courageous, strong, selfless and emotionally vulnerable in equal measure. She's all those things, jumbled together like most teens are at that age. Its that realistic mess that made her relatable. 

The whole, "Still obsessed with Sasuke after everything" Actually makes her less likeable imo. Most teenage girls would eventually realize "that ain't happening." and move on especially when told point blank to kitten off especially when there was never an actual romantic relationship to begin with.   
 

 

Sorry for reminding you of your childhood.

 

Anyways Naruto seemed to be Hokage for only a short amount of time. He could have honestly been Hokage less than a year as everything always treats him becoming hokage as a recent thing. 700 he just became Hokage, about to have his first 5 kage meeting, and Boruto was already acting out.

 

My impression has always been that Boruto was so unused to the idea that his father was not there 100% of the time, that he instantly acted out. Naruto understands why Boruto is acting out, but he busy trying to deal with an important job he always wanted but wasn't trained for, and with Boruto being so hostile it was easier to focus on that. Of course, that was fixed after the chunin exam, while Boruto is still a spoiled brat who refuses to bond with his father due to still not being at home 100%.

 

As for the Sasuke issue again. The group did that and got shot down by Naruto. She was the only one who had a chance he wouldn't just brush off due to his promise of a life time to her and his feelings for her. Him learning that even she had given up on Sasuke and was planning on killing him, was a major cause of his panic attack. Then he just double down afterwards.

Oh, I wasn't bothered--I volunteered that information.   My parents were busy to be sure, but most of my issues were being a teenager with unbalanced hormones.

I'm not terribly bothered by Naruto not leaping right into being Hokage after the war--but I don't see why KAKASHI should have taken the post when he never had an interest in it--even when he was nominated during the summit arc he seemed pretty reticent. Tsunade should have just carried on until she'd trained Naruto into the position. It sounds almost like--Burrito is offended on behalf of his mother who would want to spend 24/7 with her husband rather than his own issues.

Like, at Burrito's age having your parents around ALL the time is actually a drag. 

No one should ever talk to Naruto because he actually doesn't listen to anyone's opinions but his own. The only person to blame for Naruto's "unrealistic and idealistic perspectives" is Kishimoto, just like he's the only one to blame for whatever happened to Sakura's entire character. He tried to inject themes that were a little bit to big for his writing ability into the narrative and the whole story suffered for it. That and he just really didn't want to harm his precious Sasuke. 

[Phantom_999]

I wouldn't be so critical and negative about Naruto's unrealistic and overhyped ideals of bringing world peace if it weren't for the fact that he is a complete hypocrite and liar about it. He hasn't changed anything during his position as hokage. and let's not forget that " IF I CAN'T BJ MY BEST FRIEND THAT I NEVER ACTUALLY CONNECTED TO, I RATHER NOT LIVE ANYMORE." mentality H rather do a double suicide with Sasuke than change the world for the better like he promised the villain disillusioned by the ninja system and did what they did because of it. I'm not calling him incompetent for bringing a childish unrealistic goal into the story, more than I am calling him incompetent for not carrying it out. And also regarding any double standards that involve Sasuke. WHICH IS EVERYTHING. Plus let's not forget the bane of any good story, written or otherwise. When you let real life biases get in the way of writing it the way you want.

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 June 2023 - 06:48 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Naruto and Sasuke did connect--initially. That's the major issue for me. Is the wave arc enough to sustain a bond with someone who saved your life once but then left you, who is opposed to your ideals and has tried to kill you multiple times? is it enough to make up for Naruto's complete lack of support for what Sasuke believes he NEEDS to do? (which is kill his brother.) I don't think it is and I don't think Kishimoto did enough for Naruto, much less SAKURA to harbor obsessive tendencies for Sasuke. 

Whatever was between Sasuke and Naruto clearly wasn't enough for Sasuke either because he left it all behind and was willing to kill Naruto to get away. (Sure he had a cursed seal blah blah blah) but its not enough for him to attempt it once, he does it multiple times. 

Its like, In Naruto's mind saving Sasuke is saving the world because if he can't do that, then he literally can't do anything. Naruto's whole being comes to revolve around him rather than the larger, arguably more important goal of "changing the Ninja world." What does that even entail? Its never explained and other than the ninja version of the UN everything is more or less the same. They are still being told what to do by Daimyo, they are still training kids to fight/spy/kill and be mercenaries for hire. The evils of the world remain, whether its people like Orochimaru, regular kittenbags or aliens from alternate dimensions. 

And Kiri, where some of the worst atrocities were committed didn't require Naruto to do anything. They were already changing after Yagura was removed.

I don't think Kishimoto had any real idea on how to "change the world/system" other than "War/fighting is bad." (which in itself is naïve and simplistic but most of his broad sweeping "messages" are.) his story and the sequel require fighting--particularly children who fight since that's the target demographic therefore the status quo cannot change.

[Phantom_999]

That's true Naruto and Sasuke DID connect initially, but obviously not enough to make a believable friendship that would entail Naruto's obsession with Sasuke and Sasuke did not value it enough to change his mind. That is also what I have issue with, it is not really treated like a friendship in the sense that you could actually feel any camaraderie them. Looking at other shonen series, in WSJ especially and their so called "friendship" comes across as demented. Besides When I said that they never actually connected, I meant that in childhood they sympathized with each other in secret but never reached out or talked to eachother DESPITE knowing just how lonely the other boy is, so again how believable is their so called bond? And I agree on the the target demographic thing and how by nature it is contradictory to the message he wanted to portray, BUUUT my point on the matter is that again if he wanted to do that message he should have committed to it or not write it at all. I suppose he did realize he wrote himself into a corner at some point which is why he abolished the idea, meaning he had to end the series as a whole or continue it. I think he should have ended the series then and not consider any future sequels or projects if he REAALLY wanted to go for the world peace thing. Either way he did not commit, and that is what is so wrong with the series in many aspects.

Edited by Phantom_999, 13 June 2023 - 04:13 PM.

[milan kyuubi]

I agree with your guys posts. I always did think we needed at least one more major arc and two/three small arcs in part 1 to make tam 7 bond real. Because we got an obsessed Naruto and Sakura with Sasuke for no good reason. Now Asta and Yuno from Black Clover is how you make a true bond.

But I remember it was rushed because tournament arcs were all the rage back then. Wasn't some Kishi's editor who told him to do tournament arc because it was popular and what readers wanted?

[LuckyChi7]

When I think more and more about Black Clover is what Naruto should have been especially when it comes to the bond Asta & Yukino share throughout the series.

You can tell they are rivals and are really competitive with one another, but at the end of the day they are both friends. Weve seen it since the very beginning of the series and continue to see it in the current final saga.

Naruto and Sasuke were definitely lacking that a lot especially when we get into the timeskip with part 2.

[VanitasDS76491]

If Supergirl died.. Superman would cry.

pretty sure he did in crisis on infinite earths when that did happen

 

True, maybe people are waking up and seeing Hinata isn't well written.

 

I can see that being the biggest problem in why Naruto has become the hot mess it is now, and I still think you have ones that are still obsessed with Hinata. Not many, mind you, but the few who are still around still talk about Hinata like she is still the best thing to be created. But I feel that is also dying thanks to what is happening and more stories and shows coming out showing how a female character should be done.

 

I mean, look at Ashley from Resident Evil, for in the OG she was hated, but in the remake, many love her and say she is better than the OG version.

agreed plus they do more with her character i've seen in the remake like when she took leon's kife and when they met up

 

Ashly wasn't that bad imo. Unless you intentionally aimed for her, it was next to impossible to accidently kill her.

at least til you unlocked her knight outfit then it was a bit better

[VanitasDS76491]

When I think more and more about Black Clover is what Naruto should have been especially when it comes to the bond Asta & Yukino share throughout the series.

You can tell they are rivals and are really competitive with one another, but at the end of the day they are both friends. Weve seen it since the very beginning of the series and continue to see it in the current final saga.

Naruto and Sasuke were definitely lacking that a lot especially when we get into the timeskip with part 2.

or how deku and bakugo are in my hero they're growth to there bond more so in bakugo's character

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

pretty sure he did in crisis on infinite earths when that did happen

 

agreed plus they do more with her character i've seen in the remake like when she took leon's kife and when they met up

 

at least til you unlocked her knight outfit then it was a bit better

My thoughts exactly. 

[Bail o' Lies]

My feeling is that Sakura was always "popular" maybe not as popular here in the west as in some other places, but she wasn't so hated that it warranted losing panel time/position as the "heroine" and love interest. What these poll results actually tell me is that all the Hinata fans have mostly left the franchise for one reason or another and that Sakura's fans linger. 

I don't think its due to SS happening, I just think Sakura's endearing enough to people that she left a lasting impression on them. It wouldn't have mattered who she ended up with in the long run because the main draw is HER.  

Sakura has the problem most of the cast has, "people wanted her to have a story, while kishimoto was content with just having a moment at the last chapter." This bit him in two ways. One, him doing nothing with Sakura most of the time made people think he was sexist because she wasn't as important as her teammates. Two, most fans developed headcanons to fill the voids in the story, some that even contradict what actually happens...hell that SS manga clearly contradicts how the ninja world was set up.

 

Sakura clearly at least had the ability to invoke strong feeling in the audience. Most writers dream of having a character have as strong of an impact as some Naruto characters did.

As for Hinata, she really doesn't have anything substantial to her in the OG manga or in Burrito. She tries suiciding for Naruto twice, gets her cousin killed, knits a scarf to replace Naruto's dead mom's scarf. BECOMES BYAKUGAN PRINCESSU!! gets married, has kids. She's not doing anything outside of Naruto, seems retired from service. Even her clans "issues" are magically resolved without her help. Her son complains about being lonely "suck it up bucko." the village gets attacked or w/e "OH KIDS TAKE CARE OF YOUR FATHER!!" meanwhile, Sakura is raising her kid (alone.) if her kid's in trouble she goes berserk and protects THEM like a mom should. She's still working (someones gotta put food on the table and pay them bills. Ain't gonna be the Sauce.   ) Still fighting, so she's got the cool-factor left. 

Why would/should Hinata's popularity eclipse Sakura's?

Unfortunately, Kishimoto not going through Neji and Hinata story lead to fans filling in the blanks, some ended up working at SP, and their desires even up overwriting him. Of course they felt pity/sympathy/lust for her so they made her perfect. The hyuuga plot was Neji's with his death it was dropped. For Hinata Goddess Princess of the Moon.

 

Oh I heard something recently. Apparently, in Japanese folklore the moon is suppose to be the pure land of divine beings/gods live. So by making Hinata the princess of the moon is short hand in Japanese to making her the Princess of the Gods. The more I learn about Japanese culture, the more blatant you realize they were in trying to shove her down everyone throats.

 

To me, Sakura always came across as a mentally normal teenage girl. Yes, she could be a kitten, she could be bossy, haughty with a hair trigger temper, but she could also be insecure, courageous, strong, selfless and emotionally vulnerable in equal measure. She's all those things, jumbled together like most teens are at that age. Its that realistic mess that made her relatable. 

The whole, "Still obsessed with Sasuke after everything" Actually makes her less likeable imo. Most teenage girls would eventually realize "that ain't happening." and move on especially when told point blank to kitten off especially when there was never an actual romantic relationship to begin with. 

It is how I sum up how I've seen people reaction/how they connect to her. No one really likes her obsessing over Sasuke...to some extent not even SS fans; as they would at least like some development.

 

I'm not terribly bothered by Naruto not leaping right into being Hokage after the war--but I don't see why KAKASHI should have taken the post when he never had an interest in it--even when he was nominated during the summit arc he seemed pretty reticent. Tsunade should have just carried on until she'd trained Naruto into the position. It sounds almost like--Burrito is offended on behalf of his mother who would want to spend 24/7 with her husband rather than his own issues.

Like, at Burrito's age having your parents around ALL the time is actually a drag. 

No one should ever talk to Naruto because he actually doesn't listen to anyone's opinions but his own. The only person to blame for Naruto's "unrealistic and idealistic perspectives" is Kishimoto, just like he's the only one to blame for whatever happened to Sakura's entire character. He tried to inject themes that were a little bit to big for his writing ability into the narrative and the whole story suffered for it. That and he just really didn't want to harm his precious Sasuke. 

Kakashi was made Hokage for Hinata's big movie. Then he had to stay hokage to justify him being there for that movie. Shortening the amount of time Naruto could be hokage and screwing over Tsunade's role in the manga. As she was suppose to be hokage till Naruto was ready.

 

Part of it was him being upset for his mother. Of course when she keeps explaining that his father has an important job, he still act like a brat.

 

A story can only be deep if its set up beforehand. The problem is Naruto isn't allowed to reflect on anything too much, which prevents him from learning or growing too much. Because Kishimoto didn't want to or know how to deal with it. Which means in order for Naruto to work it has to be kept simple and avoid the hard topics as much as it can. It did that under Yahagi but afterwards it slowed down and tried to be deeper and more nuanced without any of the build up.

 

Look at what One Piece is doing right now with the Reverie arc, that story has been set up and building since at least the Drum Island arc.

 

Now compare to... Dark Naruto. When Naruto meets his evil side containing all the dark thought he ever had they only thing that is brought up is that he didn't give those two random mooks at the start of the arc his autograph. And he find inner peace by coming up with an autograph that he will give out to anyone who asks from then on.

 

Naruto and Sasuke did connect--initially. That's the major issue for me. Is the wave arc enough to sustain a bond with someone who saved your life once but then left you, who is opposed to your ideals and has tried to kill you multiple times? is it enough to make up for Naruto's complete lack of support for what Sasuke believes he NEEDS to do? (which is kill his brother.) I don't think it is and I don't think Kishimoto did enough for Naruto, much less SAKURA to harbor obsessive tendencies for Sasuke. 

Whatever was between Sasuke and Naruto clearly wasn't enough for Sasuke either because he left it all behind and was willing to kill Naruto to get away. (Sure he had a cursed seal blah blah blah) but its not enough for him to attempt it once, he does it multiple times. 

Its like, In Naruto's mind saving Sasuke is saving the world because if he can't do that, then he literally can't do anything. Naruto's whole being comes to revolve around him rather than the larger, arguably more important goal of "changing the Ninja world." What does that even entail? Its never explained and other than the ninja version of the UN everything is more or less the same. They are still being told what to do by Daimyo, they are still training kids to fight/spy/kill and be mercenaries for hire. The evils of the world remain, whether its people like Orochimaru, regular kittenbags or aliens from alternate dimensions. 
And Kiri, where some of the worst atrocities were committed didn't require Naruto to do anything. They were already changing after Yagura was removed.

I don't think Kishimoto had any real idea on how to "change the world/system" other than "War/fighting is bad." (which in itself is naïve and simplistic but most of his broad sweeping "messages" are.) his story and the sequel require fighting--particularly children who fight since that's the target demographic therefore the status quo cannot change.

Sasuke had two scenes: he was the first to offer Naruto food during the bell test and he protected Naruto during the wave arc. Those two scenes had to hold up the entire story from then on. Which includes chasing after him for what...ten maybe twelve years real time? No matter how good those two scenes are, those years will stretches the believability of Naruto still chasing after him, and more importantly the audiences' patience. 

 

Kishimoto made Sasuke returning the village=saving the world because he wanted them to be the final battle without really justifying why it should be.

 

In theory, Naruto wanted ninja to see themselves as humans instead of tools of war...wasn't as explored as "how to get Sasuke to return to the village?" Of course the lessons Boruto is learning how to become the perfect ninja weapon...which goes to show how far Naruto failed.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 November 2023 - 10:26 AM.

[milan kyuubi]

Just found this. Don't know to laugh or.....

 

New official Naruto tarot cards

Cards

[Bail o' Lies]

Just found this. Don't know to laugh or.....

 

New official Naruto tarot cards

Cards

...They have both Sakura and Hinata as Number 3 (III.) Which is incorrect. Sakura is the high priestess 2 (II,) while Hinata would be the empress 3 (III.) Also Sasuke wrong as the magician is the first (I) as the fool is Zero. Neji should be XI as VIII is strength...or are they using persona's tarot instead of the actual lists?

 

If those are official and not fan made that is embarrassing mistake.

 

So, Naruto is the Emperor (IV,) Authority Structure Control Fatherhood or tyranny, rigidity, coldness. The just ruler or a tyrant...they probably just gave that to him because he is Hokage...but a lot of the meaning can be ironic...He should be the fool as he is the main character on his journey.

 

Sasuke is the Magician (I,) willpower, desire, creation, manifestation or trickery, illusion, out of touch. The wise man or the conman. Its also is the a mentor that sets the hero off on his journey...granted chasing after him became Naruto's obsession.

 

Sakura is the High Priestess (II,) intuitive, unconscious, inner voice, or lack of center, loss of inner voice, repressed feeling. Someone who understand themselves and can guide others or not... it fits with what happened to her.

 

Hinata is the Empress (III,) motherhood, fertility, nature, or dependence, smothering, emptiness, nosiness. The ideal mother figure or the overbearing mother...so did they give this to her because she married Naruto or the reverse meanings?

 

Iruka is the Hierophant...think Pope or high priest (V,) tradition conformity morality ethics, or rebellion, subversiveness, new approaches. The symbol of the status quo or rebellion against it...did they give this to him because he was the first teacher? He would make a better magician.

 

Shikamaru is the Chariot (VII,) direction control, willpower, or lack of control, lack of direction, aggression...normally means charging towards victory or defeat.

 

Neji is Justice (XI,) cause and effect, clarity, truth, or dishonesty, unaccountability, unfairness. Justice or injustice...were they being ironic with this one?

 

Kakashi is the World (XXI,) fulfillment, harmony, completion, or incompletion, no closure. Completion of the story's goal or failure to achieve it. So Kakashi is the world because he was the hokage at the end or something?

 

 

Some of these feel like they are being ironic. The mistakes make them pathetic.

 

Neji was paired up with Hinata instead of Naruto and Hinata being paired up. Same with no Sakura and Sasuke. Also these seem to be their pre-ending part two selves again.

 

Honestly, part one Naruto should be the fool and Hokage Naruto should be the World to show him completing his journey. As that what the tarots are suppose to represent; a fool on a journey of self discovery. Having Kakashi as the World instead comes off as Naruto's failure to achieve his goals and Kakashi replacing him as the Sixth Hokage. 

 

Thinking on it, Iruka should be the Magician as he sets Naruto off on his journey while Kakashi as the hierophant as Naruto's main mentor that resigned has himself to the establish ninja system while supporting Naruto's desire to change it. The Emperor should be either the 3rd or the 4th Hokage...where would people put Sasuke?

 

What are the other Tarots?

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 12 June 2023 - 06:15 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

You know thinking on it some more and some of the stuff I've been hearing today; Japanese companies are starting to focus on their ESG scores (Capcom and Square.) It looks like Western investors are finally getting interested in Japanese media; especially after the success of the Mario movie.

 

Disney is crashing: The Live action Little Mermaid is flopping hard, Super Hero movies are almost dead, Elemental is expected to flop, and Lucasfilm has burnt down all their IPs as Dial is Destiny is pretty much expected to flop.

 

Tarot cards are often an obsession 'progressive' women have to replace spirituality of religions like Christianity with new age mysticism such as tarot reading or horoscopes/astrology. So when a company starts making tarot cards out of nowhere its often a sign of it 'going woke.' Since woke women that work in marketing often recommend it; since it is what they like.

 

So that maybe what is happening here.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 11 June 2023 - 12:02 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

I don't see how this thread is suited to have on the genreal topic of woke to be honest and should probably be on the political thread or on a thread generally abouts films if it's in relation. Unless you want to discuss the topic on any possibilty about naruto being woke, which I doubt since naruto ended before topics about that became so heated on the Internet.

Especially naruto's female cast, which is generally considered to be portrayed badly and in some cases sextet. Heck you can see this on naruto series Wikipedia page and sakura's by critic Yukari Fujimoto

Sakura's page:
Critic Yukari Fujimoto says that Sakura is an example of Naruto showing a conservative view of women. Ino, Sakura and Hinata place priority on love, treating it as more important than excelling as a ninja. Fujimoto states that during the ninja examinations, Sakura's climactic fight with Ino, her love rival, is conducted on a purely physical level, contrasting this level of skill with the supernatural abilities displayed by her male classmates at this point. When the medical ninja Tsunade is introduced, Sakura takes on a daughter-like role, learning to heal others from Tsunade's teaching, which Fujimoto regards as reinforcing a conservative idea of women — that women do not belong on the battlefield as warriors, only as nurses.[75]

Naruto series page theme section:
Fujimoto argues that the story has overly traditional gender roles, noting "[...] its representations suggest that men are men and women are women and that they differ naturally regarding aptitude and vocation". For example, the girls initially outperform the boys in the Ninja Academy, but "once the boys get serious, the girls cannot keep pace". Fujimoto points out that this does not upset Sakura, who is now surpassed by Naruto. Character development based on female roles, when it does occur, again uses stereotypical roles: Tsunade, for example, a middle-aged woman with large breasts, is a clear mother figure, and when she teaches Sakura to be a medical ninja, which requires special skills possessed only by women, the story reinforces the idea that women only belong on the battlefield as healers. Tsunade herself, who is a figure of authority in Naruto, is portrayed as ridiculous in a way that men in the same position are not. Fujimoto suggests this presentation of women may explain why the female characters are often the most disliked characters among readers of the manga.[234]

Frankly I find the word woke has lost all meaning and cringe whenever it's used. I remember when the trailers of Mario came out the anti woke crowd was saying the movie was a super woke feminist movies because of how princess peach was portrayed in the trailers, only to heal turn when the movie did well and tried to say it was anti woke when it was probably nether.

I doubt superhero movies are dead and are more just nor as popular as they use to be, mostly because for many the mcu has gotten stake and doesn't feel is has a sense of direction with this multiversial saga. Plus you still have good films coming out like Gaurdians of the Galaxy volume 3 and across the spiderverse.

I haven't seen the life action little mermaid so I can't comment on its quality, though I say it's a bit too soon to it's a financial failure as its still out in cinemas currently on 370 million when I last checked on the box office. Given how it's budget is 250 million it probably needs to make less than 500 million to actually be considered flop.

As for elementals no idea if it will flop or not, currently it's expected to get 40 million on its opening weekend, if it gets less than that maybe it will. For indiana Jones possibly since is its one of the most expensive films ever made with a budget of 300 million and it got mixed reviews from critics. Though we will have to see when it comes out.

For investment in Japan media, I say its mostly the game side of things rather than anime that are currently bring invested, heck I hear illumination have gotten the rights to do a zelda film. https://twitter.com/...MoAHt1q4uQ&s=19

Anime just not yet, though maybe something like the live action one piece film will change things if its good.

[Derock]

Disney is crashing: The Live action Little Mermaid is flopping hard, Super Hero movies are almost dead, Elemental is expected to flop, and Lucasfilm has burnt down all their IPs as Dial is Destiny is pretty much expected to flop.

 

Tarot cards are often an obsession 'progressive' women have to replace spirituality of religions like Christianity with new age mysticism such as tarot reading or horoscopes/astrology. So when a company starts making tarot cards out of nowhere its often a sign of it 'going woke.' Since woke women that work in marketing often recommend it; since it is what they like.

 

So that maybe what is happening here.

 

For LA Little Mermaid, it's only at Chinese and Korean box office markets because they're still in the mindset of "characters that were white initially should stay white" mentality. There's an article online about it. The movie did well in here in the domestic box office.

[Bail o' Lies]

For LA Little Mermaid, it's only at Chinese and Korean box office markets because they're still in the mindset of "characters that were white initially should stay white" mentality. There's an article online about it. The movie did well in here in the domestic box office.

Sadly, that's not correct. Hollywood is obsessed with the box office numbers and they want their big movies to make the big millstone which at the moment is 1 billion at the box office.

 

The Last and Boruto are not flops if you just go by earning; as their budgets were only a couple million each. However, once those new shounen jump anime movies were making hundreds of millions. Then they became flops by being disappointment's as, why couldn't the Naruto movies make hundreds of millions like the others when it used to be the king of international sales?

 

Little Mermaids has a budget in the hundreds of millions and from what people are saying, in order to break even it needs to make at least 500-800 million to break even, but what they really want is for it to hit is 1 billion like the Lion King and Aladdin. If it doesn't it is a flop. It is at $414 million right now. So going by how it doing, it needs to make at least another 80 million over the next few weeks to possibly break even, but it will still be a disappointing flop if it does not come close to a billion.

 

The US is the only market it is doing well in but even that isn't meeting expectations.

 

Granted, at least it has a chance of breaking even without hitting a billion. From what people have been saying, Dial of Destiny needs to make a billion to break even because Kennedy gave her ego trip vanity movie a massive budget. 

 

I don't see how this thread is suited to have on the genreal topic of woke to be honest and should probably be on the political thread or on a thread generally abouts films if it's in relation. Unless you want to discuss the topic on any possibilty about naruto being woke, which I doubt since naruto ended before topics about that became so heated on the Internet.

Especially naruto's female cast, which is generally considered to be portrayed badly and in some cases sextet. Heck you can see this on naruto series Wikipedia page and sakura's by critic Yukari Fujimoto

Sakura's page:
Critic Yukari Fujimoto says that Sakura is an example of Naruto showing a conservative view of women. Ino, Sakura and Hinata place priority on love, treating it as more important than excelling as a ninja. Fujimoto states that during the ninja examinations, Sakura's climactic fight with Ino, her love rival, is conducted on a purely physical level, contrasting this level of skill with the supernatural abilities displayed by her male classmates at this point. When the medical ninja Tsunade is introduced, Sakura takes on a daughter-like role, learning to heal others from Tsunade's teaching, which Fujimoto regards as reinforcing a conservative idea of women — that women do not belong on the battlefield as warriors, only as nurses.[75]

Naruto series page theme section:
Fujimoto argues that the story has overly traditional gender roles, noting "[...] its representations suggest that men are men and women are women and that they differ naturally regarding aptitude and vocation". For example, the girls initially outperform the boys in the Ninja Academy, but "once the boys get serious, the girls cannot keep pace". Fujimoto points out that this does not upset Sakura, who is now surpassed by Naruto. Character development based on female roles, when it does occur, again uses stereotypical roles: Tsunade, for example, a middle-aged woman with large breasts, is a clear mother figure, and when she teaches Sakura to be a medical ninja, which requires special skills possessed only by women, the story reinforces the idea that women only belong on the battlefield as healers. Tsunade herself, who is a figure of authority in Naruto, is portrayed as ridiculous in a way that men in the same position are not. Fujimoto suggests this presentation of women may explain why the female characters are often the most disliked characters among readers of the manga.[234]

Frankly I find the word woke has lost all meaning and cringe whenever it's used. I remember when the trailers of Mario came out the anti woke crowd was saying the movie was a super woke feminist movies because of how princess peach was portrayed in the trailers, only to heal turn when the movie did well and tried to say it was anti woke when it was probably nether.

I doubt superhero movies are dead and are more just nor as popular as they use to be, mostly because for many the mcu has gotten stake and doesn't feel is has a sense of direction with this multiversial saga. Plus you still have good films coming out like Gaurdians of the Galaxy volume 3 and across the spiderverse.

I haven't seen the life action little mermaid so I can't comment on its quality, though I say it's a bit too soon to it's a financial failure as its still out in cinemas currently on 370 million when I last checked on the box office. Given how it's budget is 250 million it probably needs to make less than 500 million to actually be considered flop.

As for elementals no idea if it will flop or not, currently it's expected to get 40 million on its opening weekend, if it gets less than that maybe it will. For indiana Jones possibly since is its one of the most expensive films ever made with a budget of 300 million and it got mixed reviews from critics. Though we will have to see when it comes out.

For investment in Japan media, I say its mostly the game side of things rather than anime that are currently bring invested, heck I hear illumination have gotten the rights to do a zelda film. https://twitter.com/...MoAHt1q4uQ&s=19

Anime just not yet, though maybe something like the live action one piece film will change things if its good.

I was answering, "why they suddenly decided to do a deck of Tarot cards?" Since, it seems random if done out of a blue, because I can't see much of a demand for it. Not helped that the mistakes make it look cheaply and quickly made. However, I often seen IP that are going woke do tarot because some western/progressive/liberal/woke -pick you preferred word- women obsess over things like tarots to get their spiritual needs. They often seem to be the people pushing it in companies they are involved in as it one of the things they like. Therefor everyone should like it, in their minds. Tarot does not mean going woke, in of itself, but can be a sign of it.

 

With western companies like Disney burning to the ground; along with Mario's success. I made a guess that its a sign that Western investors are finally taking an interest in Japanese media and one of the things those investors obsess over is the company's ESG scores. Which several Japanese companies have had articles talking about them focusing on that.

 

Why they are currently focusing on the games, one would be a poor entrepreneur if they did not branch out. So it is likely they are also looking at anime/manga as well.

 

Naruto maybe over, Boruto isn't (sadly,) and it is one of the few big IPs they have that isn't being protected by its creator. As Kishimoto has pretty much given up and would let them do whatever they want with it. So, why not make it "go woke," to see if it earns some money. If it does great (terrible) more anime/manga will likely do the same. If it doesn't make any money....well, it wasn't making them much money anyways.

 

I was giving an answer to milan Naruto tarot questions. I wasn't trying to be political...well, I guess no more than was needed to give a possible answer. If you have another answer and thoughts on the cards feel free to tell us. I rather have someone try to explain why these characters are on those cards. As I never understood tarot despite trying to figure it out; as it keep popping up.

 

Netflix has a live action One Piece tv show in production right now. Apparently, they are on reshoots. At least before the latest writers' strike. 

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 12 June 2023 - 06:42 AM.

[totherpage95]

I think naruto is in a similar situation as star wars right now but i don't know how either series will end up. There are some fans who support the star wars sequels but many don't

[TheFirstEvil100]

Yeah Im hoping Japan stays as far away from ESG weve all seen what that can do to a company. Look at Bud Light? They hired that inexperienced woman who single handily destroyed them the same with Kennedy with all the things shes done and then all the kitten happening at Marvel.

I mean I dont care what they do with Naruto hell Id welcome the woke to destroy Naruto even more as they can be crazy.

At this point they are just doing all they can to get the Naruto name to sell money but it wont.