31569 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

Which is why Orochimaru was great. Even if we got a small idea of his motivation, which was being affected by his parents' deaths, he just seemed as if he despised his roots to be why he wanted to destroy the Leaf besides seeking immortality. It's a shame it got cast aside eventually, but how Orochimaru was written made him dangerous because of ambition and not pain alone, like with Obito and Nagato, or pettiness and jealousy, like Madara and Sasuke.

 

The writing for Orochimaru ended being a disservice to his early characterization.

[LuckyChi7]

 

The writing for Orochimaru ended being a disservice to his early characterization.

 

 

Part 1 is where Orchimaru truly peaked and he was really menacing too. 

 

 

There is honestly so much Part 2 did that really made things go south. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The writing for Orochimaru ended being a disservice to his early characterization.

Amen to that, Phantom.

And ironic too how as strong as he got thanks to him, Sasuke still seemed honestly afraid of Orochimaru, since he decided to bide his time to try to beat him, and even then, Orochimaru was still too strong for him since he couldn't keep him repressed forever, as shown in his fight with Itachi until Orochimaru was sealed (or part of him)

[Bail o' Lies]

The writing for Orochimaru ended being a disservice to his early characterization.

Orochimaru was pretty much done as a threat once Tsunade beat him. To show her as the new capable hokage. She could have killed him off right then & there and it would better off for the story, except, Kishimoto already got the idea in his head to have the three Sannin be team 7's masters during the time-skip. 

 

Amen to that, Phantom.

And ironic too how as strong as he got thanks to him, Sasuke still seemed honestly afraid of Orochimaru, since he decided to bide his time to try to beat him, and even then, Orochimaru was still too strong for him since he couldn't keep him repressed forever, as shown in his fight with Itachi until Orochimaru was sealed (or part of him)

Cautious is a better word for it. He spent three years with a ticking clock over his head of either he became stronger than him or he would be absorbed. He even acknowledged that he barely won because Orochimaru was crippled, both by the third sealing his arms therefor his ability to use jutsu and his brother by giving him a mental obsession with the sharingan, and he still had to deal with him inside his body until Itachi forced him out during their battle to seal him away. Granted that wasn't long. Kind of faded though once Orochimaru was revived and became the token evil teammate.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 13 July 2022 - 09:18 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

 

Thanks Vanitas!

 

 

I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your father at the beginning of the year. 

 

 

 

My late condolences go out to you and your family! 

to make it worse with my dad it was 2 days before his birthday and the last time i talked to him was new year's eve and i didn't even get to say good bye since he moved to Orgon in 2018 

[LuckyChi7]

to make it worse with my dad it was 2 days before his birthday and the last time i talked to him was new year's eve and i didn't even get to say good bye since he moved to Orgon in 2018 

 

Oh my god,   that really does make it worse.   I really am sorry that happened to you Vanitas. 

 

 

When I saw my uncle two days before he passed away last monday, he was like "Lets have a lot of fun with the sparklers and  poppers on the 4th! Even though I'm bedresting in this condition, I'll watch outside the backyard from the window!" 

 

and I was like "don't worry we'll make it memorable." 

 

 

then I got the call from my cousin that he passed away that morning on the 4th, and I just couldn't believe it. That happened. 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 13 July 2022 - 11:05 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

 

Oh my god,   that really does make it worse.   I really am sorry that happened to you Vanitas. 

 

 

When I saw my uncle two days before he passed away last monday, he was like "Lets have a lot of fun with the sparklers and  poppers on the 4th! Even though I'm bedresting in this condition, I'll watch outside the backyard from the window!" 

 

and I was like "don't worry we'll make it memorable." 

 

 

then I got the call from my cousin that he passed away that morning on the 4th, and I just couldn't believe it. That happened. 

wow that must hurt to at least you a had fun last time with him.

last time i talked to my dad i couldn't even understand him when he talked

[Nostradamus]

Since we're on the more serious discussion, this year has been rough for me. While I haven't dealt with loss like some of you, I'm truly sorry for anyone who went through that pain, I did however go through my own stuff. I opened up a bit, but wasn't to clear and not specific. When I said I didn't want to continue anymore, I meant it literally. I just wanted to end it. And the reason is because I went through a operation for one of my eyes and it had problems that even now are not solved. And for months I thought I lost my vision, went into depression, lost a lot of hair, also got a few white hairs, and I just wanted to end it all. And when I got some good news, then the good news were followed immediately by bad news. That's why I haven't been posting in these past months.

 

I once created a thread here, but didn't post it. I couldn't even get my words out and one thing I don't like is being a burden on anyone.

Which is why I thought ending it would be better than basically forcing someone to take care of me.

Even now as I'm writing this I don't really know how and what to say and in what order.

 

This next part is something that might get some of you mad because it goes against the current narrative. But please don't take anymore shots, if you took one or more then stop, if you haven't take any of them then don't take them. They're just not good.

I give you links and links with data, research about them if you want. Ultimately I'm not here to dictate to any of you what you should or shouldn't do, I can only say please don't take them anymore.

I've seen it with my own eyes what damage they can do. Last year when my mother took hers, that night I thought she was going to die in front of me. Now my grandmother had a stroke because of it. I say because of it because that's what the doctors at the hospital said.

 

I know very well just me saying what I said, might put me in different light to some of you. Then so be it. I just don't want anyone to suffer.

[totherpage95]

sorry to hear that 🫂 also 2 people i know have said theyre not fans of shots either so i get what youre saying about them

Edited by totherpage95, 14 July 2022 - 11:47 PM.

[totherpage95]

my condolences to you luckychi and vanitas

[TheFirstEvil100]

Same here Ive just got over Covid.

[LuckyChi7]

my condolences to you luckychi and vanitas

 

 

Thank you tother 

[Nostradamus]

Just want to give some clarifications. In case people didn't figure it out, I was talking about the covid shots. I'm not here to force you to take it or not to take it. Nor to convince anyone to do as I say. It is your choice and that's how it should be. A choice that you make based on all the information that you're willing to read/listen to. I'm not going to treat anyone differently based on their choice.

I can only tell you to take into consideration my advice which is not to take it. What you chose to do is on you.

 

The next part is why I decide to open up about ending it. The reason is because I know the feeling and thoughts of thinking you're alone.

That people don't understand what you're going through in that moment. But remember that they do. Everyone has problems. They're not dealing with the exact 100% problem as you, but they do have their own.

Remember you're not alone. And I would say don't be afraid to open up. It does help. Even to a complete stranger on the other side of the planet. In fact I think that's way easier.

 

Now enough of that since this isn't the place for it, I will return to post about Naruto. I did see some posts here that made me want to add some things. So don't worry, I'm done with being offtopic.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Just want to give some clarifications. In case people didn't figure it out, I was talking about the covid shots. I'm not here to force you to take it or not to take it. Nor to convince anyone to do as I say. It is your choice and that's how it should be. A choice that you make based on all the information that you're willing to read/listen to. I'm not going to treat anyone differently based on their choice.

I can only tell you to take into consideration my advice which is not to take it. What you chose to do is on you.

 

The next part is why I decide to open up about ending it. The reason is because I know the feeling and thoughts of thinking you're alone.

That people don't understand what you're going through in that moment. But remember that they do. Everyone has problems. They're not dealing with the exact 100% problem as you, but they do have their own.

Remember you're not alone. And I would say don't be afraid to open up. It does help. Even to a complete stranger on the other side of the planet. In fact I think that's way easier.

 

Now enough of that since this isn't the place for it, I will return to post about Naruto. I did see some posts here that made me want to add some things. So don't worry, I'm done with being offtopic.

 

It can be very tough I'm sure, Nostradamus, but at least you were able to work around it. :)

[catsi563]

Well My advice is take it. Im fully boosted and its made sure Ive not gotten sick and kept my family safe.  And youre right this isnt the place for unfounded opinions on something not remotely tangential to Naruto

[Phantom_999]

Well feel free to disagree with me if you wish, but when I stand by what I said when I said the plot hit the halt button in many ways when the plot revolved around Naruto chasing after Sasuke as his primary goal. For all of the complaining that Naruto ended up disregarding it's world building, it is a consequence of Naruto stopping whatever he is doing to chase after Sasuke. Think about it. At the beginning of the time skip things were great, we got to see the Sand village, personal growth form both Sakura and Naruto, and not to mention how Naruto showed an important bond that was not of his home, in Gaara. After that the plot revolved on rescue Sasuke attempt 2 and we got basically nothing out of it except for a nice moment showing how much Sakura cares about Naruto (and it was hinted to be romantic feelings) For the next 2 story arcs it was revolved around Sasuke again which again did nothing for the plot. Sure learning rasenshuriken was a good powerup for Naruto but again not really world building there and his primary objective was to catch up to Sasuke in which there is a undermining problem which I'm bringing up if no one is actually thinking about it. Rasenshuriken actually is useless for bringing Sasuke back because would Naruto, in good conscience use it against Sasuke after seeing the damage it inflicted on Kakuzu? When it was only half completed? Now for the next arc, Sasuke is the MC this time around and he is not advancing the story much because his goal is to kill Itachi, and for the first time and surely not the last, Naruto was pushed to the side to give Sasuke significance to the plot which, when I think back on it is *YAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWN* because it again does nothing for the plot as a whole. The Pain invasion arc though is the highlight of the series for many of us if not all I'm sure, because that was when the story started moving forward again and might I add if it wasn't for editors wanting to rush things to have Naruto back in the spot light for the end of the year, Tsunade could have had a proper fight with Pain and show off her stuff for the first time since Orochimaru. Not to mention Naruto got the acknowledgement he always wanted. Now I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment, with the Five Kage summit arc which is where things went REALLY sour for all of us. For all of its flaws, and yes I admit what I'm about to say will never make it better, but at least there was an attempt at world building with introducing the other Kages. It's not much, but it was there at least and I would have rather have that then any Sasuke centric plot point any day because again he brings nothing to the table, He is Naruto's princess musse, if I'm going to be blunt.

 

As for the rest well You know as well as I do and I don't feel like debating past that point because I primary point is addressing everything before that. Naruto had the potential for world building and making us as readers appreciate the setting Naruto was in and the bonds Naruto COULD have made had there been focus on it again like with Gaara. Sasuke ruined that because not only his his goal petty, It does nothing for the plot. It is just a "force down your throat anti-vengeance message, which by the way rings shallow with how other revenge goals are completely justified with Shikamaru's being the prime example, and trying to make Sasuke and all of the Uchiha Sob story victims later on.

 

Again I'm okay with my points being debated, It's just how I feel

Edited by Phantom_999, 04 September 2022 - 09:36 PM.

[catsi563]

I dont disagree entirely

 

be maybe more accurate to say that the plot became railroaded with the hunt for sasuke pushing all other things including character development aside for this one hyper obsessive goal. 

 

the quest to return and redeem sasuke should be a major plot point but it should have been so as part of the meta-arc which was redeem and reform the ninja system as a whole which was what had caused all the problems in the first place.

 

Its why i think Madara who was both emblematic of and a victim of the broken system should've been its final villain. Once he was defeated then you have Sasuke and Narutos final battle which is to decide how the future would go, Sasuke changing the world through fear of the shadows or Naruto bringing the world slowly but steadily into the light of hope

 

allowing Sasuke to become the Meta-arc forced the story and stunted the develpment of several characters all over this one broken kid who had some legit grievances but ended up being basically given a free pass in the end getting every powerup and the girl all in one go and all it cost him was an arm

[Phantom_999]

The meta-plot set up with Sasuke, like with trying to make MOST villains tragic is again a last second change that had no real buildup and no foreshadowing so when it was incorporated you don't really feel anything from it. Him contrasting Naruto's goals doesn't give any real impact with how late it popped up and at a very random time in the middle of the war, all it does is give them the excuse for their last fight. Madara is as you say, and embodiment of the past broken ninja system that when defeated could symbolically show times are about to change, but even that was overcomplicated with him and Hashirama being living mirrors of Naruto and Sasuke and being the previous reincarnations of Indra and Ashura, which again undermines the whole Naruto and Sasuke dynamic in the first place. Not to mention it spat on the whole message of Naruto telling Neji to stop using destiny as an excuse for anything that goes wrong in his life. And ultimately, with all the build up of trying to change the ninja system, Naruto DID NOTHING

Edited by Phantom_999, 24 July 2022 - 08:54 PM.

[catsi563]

I dont agree that it was last second theyd been building it up since the chunin exams Sasukes feelings of insecruity and superiority combined with his need for vengance then learning about itachi from orochimaru as well. Naruto being contrasted with him by his hard work and Jiraiya

 

there was plenty of foreshadowing of their conflict and build up to it all the way to the valley of the end. 

they diverged away from it with the whole indira ashura thing though i agree thats stacking mud on top of mud to make what you hope is a castle its not needed when you allready established the bricks at the bottom

[Phantom_999]

Oh, I was specifying his declaring he will be hokage and his way of changing the ninja system as a direct contrast to Naruto. THAT was last second to me not the build up to his conflict with Naruto. That was obviously set up early on, the only problem with it is that because it was set up as it was, there was actually no room to set up a friendship with Naruto at the same time. It was a tell don't show kind of thing because again the story focused more on their rivalry. Rivals can be friends obviously but not the way that Kishi set up Naruto and Sasuke's relationship. That, ironically, was done better with Hashirama and Madara and their respective clans were bitter enemies in an era of war. so think of the potential Naruto and Sasuke could have been shown as friends AND rivals had Kishi decided not to rush it

Edited by Phantom_999, 20 November 2022 - 01:56 AM.