169 replies to this topic

[db84x]

@ BlackBird19 & TheFirstEvil100

 

Based on data 62,9 % WSJ reader is under fourteen, even there are adult reader they are not as influential as their child and preteen counterpart.  Don't generalize Naruto fans like you follow it from kid, most of adult fans dropped Naruto simply because they too old for follow kid and preteen manga.

[Bail o' Lies]

@ BlackBird19 & TheFirstEvil100

 

Based on data 62,9 % WSJ reader is under fourteen, even there are adult reader they are not as influential as their child and preteen counterpart.  Don't generalize Naruto fans like you follow it from kid, most of adult fans dropped Naruto simply because they too old for follow kid and preteen manga.

https://en.wikipedia...and_demographic What your post brought me to. 

 

"Weekly Shōnen Jump is the bestselling manga magazine in Japan.In 1982, Weekly Shōnen Jump had a circulation of 2.55 million. By 1995, circulation numbers swelled to 6.53 million. The magazine's former editor-in-chief Masahiko Ibaraki (2003-2008) stated this was due to the magazine including "hit titles such as Dragon Ball, Slam Dunk, and others." After hitting this peak, the circulation numbers continued to drop.1998's New Year's issue was the first time in 24 years that Weekly Shōnen Jump lost as the highest selling shōnen manga magazine (4.15 million copies sold), ceding to Weekly Shōnen Magazine (4.45 million). It was not until 2007 that the magazine saw its first increase in 11 years, from 2.75 million to 2.78 million. An increase that Ibaraki credited to One Piece.

 

By publishing shōnen manga, the magazine is targeted to young boys. However, Index Digital reported in 2005 that the favorite non-shōjo magazine of elementary and middle school-aged female readers is Weekly Shōnen Jump at 61.9%. Strengthening it, Oricon conducted a poll among 2,933 female Japanese readers on their favorite manga magazines in 2007. Weekly Shōnen Jump was the number one answer, with One Piece, Death Note, and The Prince of Tennis cited as the reasons. In 2009, it was reported that 62.9% of the magazine's readers were under the age of fourteen."

 

2009 let's see it 2016 right now. So that's about oh 7 years out of date? Also that was during the anime boon during the US before Toonami ended. Well if they were 14 back then well 14+7=21. Also if 63% are under 14 then 37% is still over fourteen. Well 7 years ago mind you. So they numbers most likely have changed with the time. Can't you find more up to date information? Like at least 2012?

 

Also Powerpuff girls had a reboot/relaunch/whatever they want to call it recently. That ran from 1998-2005. So it was last on eleven years ago? I have heard dozens of adults complain about this new series. Samurai jack is also getting a new season some time this year, and it was last on 2004. Twelve years ago. And I have long stop counting how many time I've heard adult gushing about it. Naruto ran straight for 15 years and was apart of a lot of people childhoods especially in Japan. Even if they stop reading it they are not be happy about ending and may prevent their kids from reading Bolt.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 May 2016 - 07:46 AM.

[BlackBird19]

@ BlackBird19 & TheFirstEvil100

 

Based on data 62,9 % WSJ reader is under fourteen, even there are adult reader they are not as influential as their child and preteen counterpart.  Don't generalize Naruto fans like you follow it from kid, most of adult fans dropped Naruto simply because they too old for follow kid and preteen manga.

First off, that info is out of date and Wikipedia is not the end all be all of information. It has proven to be quite unreliable on many instances.

 

Second, you have made just as many generalizations about the Naruto fandom as anyone else here. You're last sentence was proof of that.

 

Third, WSJ numbers don't automatically mean Naruto's numbers. Longer running manga don't get picked by younger generations in large numbers. Instead it maintains a loyal following of readers as both grow older. One Piece is the exception to that rule which is why it blows everyone else out the water in terms of sales, because it can keep bringing in new young readers. Naruto wasn't good enough to do that.

[db84x]

@ BlackBird19

 

Your argument is valid in Bleach case, but we can't equalize Naruto and Bleach since Naruto always in upper rank for years while Bleach now sunk in bottom rank (sometimes Bleach manage to middle rank but it sometimes).

 

@ Bail o' Lies

 

We debate about manga not cartoon

[NeonRanger]

I won't call Kishi sexist...he's just a traditional man that needs to realize the progressive world.

He's not the type to see women as sex objects or flaunt it, like how SP treats Hinata, from what I've seen in the manga, but he carries a extreme conservative view with women and love in general. The reason why The Last even took place two years after the war was because Kishi wanted the characters to be of "adult" age.

[harry4e]

Well if you try to argue your points to a NH fan, they'll throw the same old 'Kishi's not good at romance, so that's why there are no NH non plot device moments' argument. For some reason they don't seem to understand having two people interact and being shown to enjoy the other persons company doesn't need some grand 'Sleepless in Seattle' plot. Anyone with any half talent could put in them moments.

 

NH had no interaction, no actual conversations, no proof of the concept that the two as human beings were compatible with each other. That is something that no matter hw much you argue never gets across to those with their lavender tinted glasses.

[BlackBird19]

@ BlackBird19

 

Your argument is valid in Bleach case, but we can't equalize Naruto and Bleach since Naruto always in upper rank for years while Bleach now sunk in bottom rank (sometimes Bleach manage to middle rank but it sometimes).

 

@ Bail o' Lies

 

We debate about manga not cartoon

Again if the ToC meant as much as you think it does then Bleach would have been cancelled a long time ago. However since it still sells manga volumes well enough it's still ongoing no matter what the ToC says.

 

Remember the ToC is a popularity vote utilized by fans willing to vote, not by every reader. It's not 100% reliable therefore WSJ uses it as a partial gauge and a guide to set next weeks manga lineup. The true gauge is volume sales. Naruto's volume sales dropped towards the end because it's quality could not bring in new readers. It just maintains a hardcore fan base much like Bleach does, only slightly larger therefore they stayed in the top 10 of the ToC no matter what. Where as One Piece continues to draw in new fans because it's a higher quality manga no matter how long it's been ongoing. Even with it not being  #1 in the ToC every week, it stays #1 in sales every month and year.

[Skarrow]

I don't understand what point db84x is trying to prove. Is he arguing that we should forgive and overlook Naruto's storytelling failures because "it's for kids/preteens"? Or is he just trolling? I can't tell, so I hesitate to answer his posts.

Edited by Skarrow, 08 May 2016 - 12:38 AM.

[Yyubie]

I don't understand what point db84x is trying to prove. Is he arguing that we should forgive and overlook Naruto's storytelling failures because "it's for kids/preteens"? Or is he just trolling? I can't tell, so I hesitate to answer his posts.

Wow ... that guy still here??? ... i guess it's because many people still feeding him.

[db84x]

@ BlackBird19

 

ToC is WSJ business method for years whatever you like it or not, submit your complain to Shuheisha since ranting here about ToC system won't change anything but made NS community looks silly. I think all of us knew that Oda still have motivation for go on while Kishi already want to go honeymoon with his wife, their manga show mangaka intention anyway.

 

@ harry4e & Skarrow

 

I just felt sad saw NS when came to Naruto fandom always act like oldies and always use assumption manga = cartoon, in fact Naruto fandom now consist of kid and preteen who hate lectured by oldies and manga =/= cartoon.  What your act in Naruto fandom just made they felt iritated and made them hate on NS idea.

[BlackBird19]

@ BlackBird19

 

ToC is WSJ business method for years whatever you like it or not, submit your complain to Shuheisha since ranting here about ToC system won't change anything but made NS community looks silly. I think all of us knew that Oda still have motivation for go on while Kishi already want to go honeymoon with his wife, their manga show mangaka intention anyway.

 

@ harry4e & Skarrow

 

I just felt sad saw NS when came to Naruto fandom always act like oldies and always use assumption manga = cartoon, in fact Naruto fandom now consist of kid and preteen who hate lectured by oldies and manga =/= cartoon.  What your act in Naruto fandom just made they felt iritated and made them hate on NS idea.

Now you're just being repetitive and a bit naïve. I don't want to go so far as to call you ignorant, but you seem to not pay attention to what others actually post. I said the ToC was partially something they used to determine success but not the only thing they used. ToC, whether you believe it or not, is not the sole method they use to measure success. No business relies on one sole method to measure success. Especially a business like Shueisha, which is more than just WSJ. I didn't complain about it. I just pointed out your argument is flawed and easily disproved by giving you a specific example.

 

You however just keep posting wiki pages that make little to no sense in your arguments. No one knows what Oda's or Kishi's intentions are or were, not me not you. All I know is the Naruto manga took a nose dive in storytelling as it went on and made very little sense at the end, in my opinion. If you don't agree with me that's fine. But to be arrogant enough to think you know what Kishi was thinking or intended for some time only shows you think far too highly of yourself and your opinions. You're no better or smarter than any other member here. You're just a fan interpreting this manga in your own way to justify the end product, while casting aspersions and accusations at the NS community that are unwarranted and unjustified just to make you feel superior even though you are not.

[Skarrow]

Wow ... that guy still here??? ... i guess it's because many people still feeding him.

I've seen BlackBird19 argue back and forth with db84x in other threads too, about the same topics, so I wasn't sure. They're like the SNS of H&E. db84x is BlackBird's Sasuke, LOL. /jk
(plz don't hurt meee)

If you can't see his posts, I assume that you blocked him?

[BlackBird19]

I've seen BlackBird19 argue back and forth with db84x in other threads too, about the same topics, so I wasn't sure. They're like the SNS of H&E. db84x is BlackBird's Sasuke, LOL. /jk
(plz don't hurt meee)

If you can't see his posts, I assume that you blocked him?

Man, I think I should feel insulted by that. Oh well, it is what it is. I'm just not one to ignore someone just because we don't agree on something. That's just me.

[Yyubie]

I've seen BlackBird19 argue back and forth with db84x in other threads too, about the same topics, so I wasn't sure. They're like the SNS of H&E. db84x is BlackBird's Sasuke, LOL. /jk
(plz don't hurt meee)

If you can't see his posts, I assume that you blocked him?

I'm honestly tired and done remind people here not to feed that NH troll, but i just realize your post still low and that means you are new member so yeah ... db84x is NH / Hinata fans, he always insult NS fans outside this forum

This is just one of MANY things he said to NS fans in other forum, i suggest/advice you to ignore him and his feeder, but if you want to join them feel free ...

[BlackBird19]

I'm honestly tired and done remind people here not to feed that NH troll, but i just realize your post still low and that means you are new member so yeah ... db84x is NH / Hinata fans, he always insult NS fans outside this forum

This is just one of MANY things he said to NS fans in other forum, i suggest/advice you to ignore him and his feeder, but if you want to join them feel free ...

You know you don't have to be insulting just because you don't like us debating each other. Don't just go lumping me in with him.

[Yyubie]

You know you don't have to be insulting just because you don't like us debating each other. Don't just go lumping me in with him.

I don't mention ANY name except his name, and i talking to skarrow ... why are you upset ?? look again please where in my post that i mention and insulting your name ??? i'm not editing my post. Look at that screenshot that guy insulting NS fans / us here and you defending him ...!? hm ... weird ...

[rocci]

He's trolling and he's not even good on that.

[Anthony]

b a s e d dbx fooling everyone what did they do to you for you to come and do this, man

a 

s

e

d

Edited by Anthony, 08 May 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[BlackBird19]

I'm honestly tired and done remind people here not to feed that NH troll, but i just realize your post still low and that means you are new member so yeah ... db84x is NH / Hinata fans, he always insult NS fans outside this forum

This is just one of MANY things he said to NS fans in other forum, i suggest/advice you to ignore him and his feeder, but if you want to join them feel free ...

The bolded came off like you lumping me in with him just because I was being polite and engaging him. Calling anyone who does so a "feeder". I just felt that was uncalled for. Why would it bother you so much if someone felt like debating him? But if I just took that wrong then I apologize.

 

 

I don't mention ANY name except his name, and i talking to skarrow ... why are you upset ?? look again please where in my post that i mention and insulting your name ??? i'm not editing my post. Look at that screenshot that guy insulting NS fans / us here and you defending him ...!? hm ... weird ...

Also, please read below before you question whether I was defending him.

 

.

 

You however just keep posting wiki pages that make little to no sense in your arguments. No one knows what Oda's or Kishi's intentions are or were, not me not you. All I know is the Naruto manga took a nose dive in storytelling as it went on and made very little sense at the end, in my opinion. If you don't agree with me that's fine. But to be arrogant enough to think you know what Kishi was thinking or intended for some time only shows you think far too highly of yourself and your opinions. You're no better or smarter than any other member here. You're just a fan interpreting this manga in your own way to justify the end product, while casting aspersions and accusations at the NS community that are unwarranted and unjustified just to make you feel superior even though you are not.

This was the last thing I wrote to you know who. A defense of the NS community, not of him. But no worries this will be the last time I mention it.

[Yyubie]

The bolded came off like you lumping me in with him just because I was being polite and engaging him. Calling anyone who does so a "feeder". I just felt that was uncalled for. Why would it bother you so much if someone felt like debating him? But if I just took that wrong then I apologize.

 

 

Also, please read below before you question whether I was defending him.

 

This was the last thing I wrote to you know who. A defense of the NS community, not of him. But no worries this will be the last time I mention it.

I can turn the bolded part right back at you, i was being polite and help answering Skarrow questions

 

I don't understand what point db84x is trying to prove. Is he arguing that we should forgive and overlook Naruto's storytelling failures because "it's for kids/preteens"? Or is he just trolling? I can't tell, so I hesitate to answer his posts.

 

And i said he is a NH/Hinata troll, i provide an evidence. While you on the other hand said i'm insulting you, first i never mention your name, second i said "I ADVICE/SUGGEST" that means no force, i'm not forcing Skarrow to do what i said, where's the word of insulting you in that???

 

You ask why is it bother me so much if someone like debating with him?? again i repeat i'm just answering Skarrow questions he still new, he has the right to know who he is.