(First post ever)

 

I might say "no" today, but I think somewhere down the line I'll end up checking his new series out online or something.

The fillers will never end as long as some poor kid flips on the tv, sees an episode of Naruto without really knowing what's going on, and then looks it up online because it "looks cool". They'll find out about chapter 700, see who gets with who in the end, buy up merchandise and become rabid shippers of these end game couples without ever reading or comprehending the story in its entirety. Logic and storytelling be damned.

 

 

On a different note, I don't think School Days is a terrible story, in the same way that Naruto is terrible anyhow. School Days never tries to trick people into thinking that the hero is a good guy (in the anime). Everyone who watched it agrees that he's an utter scumbag, and he gets his just desserts by the last episode. (Of course that could be my bias as a player of the original School Days VN talking...)

 

Naruto started out as a mediocre, but charming-in-its-own-way battle manga series that eventually imploded on itself.

Hey there, elisha!

 

In my opinion, it's more fun to hang out with the neutral fans and the anti-ending fans these days because you won't find two people with the exact same reasons and feelings towards the Naruto series, which invites lots of discussion.

 

I'm a fairly new member too, but I hope you'll find lots to talk about here. :)

@skarow
Neji already have it. He just doesn't show it in pleminary fight.

I think many nh fan think naruto like Hinata since he said that "he like people like her". I think they misinterpret it (like Hinata) that naruto like her.
What naruto said is he like the people who shy and awkward like her. He doesn't say that he romantically like her.

Have kishi follow up it with some romantic feed back from naruto, than nh argument will be valid. But it didn't.

 

 

If what you say about Neji is true, then I stand corrected.

 

I thought Naruto told Hinata that he liked "people like her" because she never gave up and all that good stuff? Not because she was shy and awkward (in fact that doesn't sound like Naruto at all... more like a guy who's inserting himself into Naruto). Basically he identified with her because they were both losers who never gave up... which in hindsight makes sense because Hinata was copying Naruto's nindo in part 1 so of course he'd like her.

 

 

EDIT: ninja'd

What chapter of Naruto Gaiden was this?

That's what I keep saying to those NH-ers who try to make out the blood oath as some sort of "love declaration" (though completely unbeknownst to Naruto...however the heck that works...); it was never about Hinata herself, but rather the fact that it boiled down to his beliefs vs. Neji's beliefs, and so when Neji beat down and belittled Hinata, who had chosen to steal and represent Naruto's beliefs for herself, Naruto saw Neji's actions as more of a personal insult to himself and his beliefs and so he was vowing to prove his beliefs to Neji with his own hands as Hinata completely failed.

Naruto has shown he has no problem killing people who refuse to convert to his ways or, at the very least, that he can't relate to in some way. Same to when it comes to helping people; no problem helping those who he can make out a relatable situation. Otherwise, he'll only do it because it's his mission.

 

Wait, when exactly did Naruto kill someone/show potential for killing someone for refusing to convert to his ways? 0_o That sounds almost sinister.

 

Also, I thought Naruto's TnJ worked on anyone he could, and not just people he relates to, because he was he was just as heroic and kindhearted as... let's say, Luffy. I guess that's what happens when I read too much fanfiction.

 

 

thats why i say that fight could easily have been Lee versus Neji to the same end and effect and even greater emotional resolution.

 

Lees determination and hard work would have resonated with Naruto as would his dream of being a fine shinobi. And nejis casual destruction of that dream and willingness to hurt a teamate and comerade while insulting that dream and kevetching about fate would have angered naruto no end espeically when Neji drives the dagger home at the end of it by telling Naruto--albeight slightly indirectly--that losers can never be hokage because fate.

 

that would drive Naruto to end neji hadcore and push him to fight evne harder then the first go around.

 

Wouldn't Neji have lost against Lee in the prelims, though? Lee had lol!speed and five Gates.

Naruto has this habit of making situations all about himself, really. When Hinata got beaten by Neji, he only made the blood promise because Neji told him that losers would always be losers (manga vol 9, chapter 81), and Hinata herself was a distant second on his mind.

 

Rereading the manga, I'm on vol 26 right now and the only time Naruto didn't turn the conversation to himself was during the Wave Arc, when he TnJ'ed Zabuza... which makes me wonder, what if Naruto met an enemy that was like Gato? As in, someone he couldn't sympathize with (and thus fail to TnJ him)?

^Mangapanda or mangastream? Or does the translation not count, you just want an image?

in the context of the story Neji could beat Lee becausefor all lees speed and power at the time he ran into the same issue he ran into with gaara an impenetrable defense with the kaiten that would turn that energy back on him as it did with naruto who won when he out thought neji in the end.

this is late, but...

also in the context of the story, Neji didn't have the Kaiten yet during the preliminaries, right? Which means all he has going for him is shutting down people's chakra networks... something that Lee would easily overcome if they did fight each other during those preliminaries.

 

 

EDIT:

 

NH Fans I have the ultimate Question for you. WHAT. Did. Naruto. Like about Hinata? And NO the fact that she never gave up and is a proud loser don't count, those was traits that she picked up from him. Anime only scenes don't count either, so don't even bring up that crap about her cooking for him and he (Naruto) saying she'd make a good wife WHAT did Naruto like about Hinata, be it her looks or her personality?

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. ...........................................

As a former NH fan, I feel obligated to answer.

The things Naruto liked about Hinata were entirely my headcanon. Specifically: wish fulfillment, headcanon, and overhype of part 1 Hinata.

It’s just like the Team 7 moment in the war arc. Excitement was at an all time high at first but when I took a minute to look beyond this delusional effect, NH (and the ending in general) made me feel... used.

My "winning couple" didn't have proper positive development, and there are still unresolved problems such as Naruto's other important bonds and Hyuuga Branch enslavement. We were told (more like bashed in the head over and over in the Hiden novels) that Naruto and Hinata had "amazing chemistry and were perfect for each other!" but I couldn't accept that anymore. Because by this point headcanons just didn't cut it for me anymore regarding plot or pairings or anything. I wanted actual content.

 

When Naruto The Last and the novels came out, I couldn't even defend my ship because Kishimoto couldn't even give me anything worth defending. To this day I still roll my eyes whenever someone calls Hinata (or any character) derogatory names because harassment of a fictional character is still harassment, but when faced with people who have legit arguments, all I can say in response (quite pathetically) is that "at least NH doesn't seem as bad as SS, in-universe".

 

Rather like a placebo effect, at the end of it all I only felt emptiness. And then anger. ...And then disappointment. Nowadays I look back on my old Naruto stuff (including my NH headcanons) with nostalgia. In those days I was young and naive, and had no idea how badly Kishimito was going to FUBAR his series.

 

 

 

TL;DR - Everything that Naruto supposedly liked about Hinata was my own imagination. It was never real. Just like the red scarf that connected the couple together; no matter how many times it was alluded to in N:TL, one look at the original manga would reveal that it was all a fantasy, and the connection never existed.

Here ya go... I think.

@skarrow
It's the side effect of his bijuu plant on him.
Garra doesn't get the wind attack from the one tail.

He can control the sand through magnetism or wind manipulation or simply by his will. It never get indepth explanation.

 

Thanks. What about the thing with his mother that was revealed in the War Arc? How does that factor into it?

Tbh I think it could have been much, much worse than ch 699-700 and The Last.

"Hiruzen Obito Uzumaki, you were named for two Konoha shinobi. One of them was an Uchiha, and he was probably the coolest man I ever knew."

@skarrow
The only time Hinata become main character is in the last which is the movie dedicate for her.

 

 

I never claimed otherwise.

 

Sakura got replaced by Hinata as a main character in The Last.

 

and

 

Sakura has potential but kishi never live up nor fulfil it.

 

I said that too.

 

 

Sakura has the same relevancy with kakashi. The difference is one of them is fan favorite while the other is fan hate character who I think the hate is as big as jar jar bink.

 

We're essentially saying the same thing, but from two opposite sides of the situation.

 

 

 

Oh Hinata background only interesting for her fan.

 

I don't know what you're trying to argue here.

 

I know it's frustrating, but now that Hinata is officially the heroine, her background is relevant to the story at hand.

 

Except, they make no mention of it in The Last and just focused entirely on her feelings for Naruto. And then make her irrelevant in the Bolt movie and in Naruto Gaiden.

I know this is usually 4life's little style, but I'm gonna borrow it just this once...  

 

 

If Naruto: The Last was a story about the sisterly bond between Hinata and Hanabi  kinda like Frozen and it focused on that as it's primary plot,  and the NaruHina  romance was a subplot to the film instead, then it would make the film better. 

 

 

Agree or Disagree? 

 

Definitely agree. The Last was what made me stop supporting canon NH in the first place.

 

They shouldn't just make the romance a subplot. They should fix a lot more things about the movie's actual plot. If I was at home right now, I would list these things down, but instead I'll talk about one thing they shouldn't have done:

 

Hinata's bullying scene existed not only to create that stupid red scarf metaphor, but also to highlight the Byakugan. If they wanted to give attention to the Byakugan they should scrap the scene entirely (seriously, trash that scarf metaphor) and replace it with an in-depth look at Kumo's attempted kidnapping of Hinata, which will not only give the audience an idea of how prized the doujutsu is, but will FINALLY explain how an ambassador from Kumo managed to infiltrate a clan compound full of ninjas who can see through walls. Then they should follow this flashback with an explanation of the different levels of Byakugan, contrasting it with the Uchiha's Sharingan. And finally they should talk about the Hyuuga clan in general, and their relationship to Hamura.

Bit of a stretch to think it was a look of longing. Honestly I think he just looked concerned and it actually reminded me of the old naruto. The POAL one who just wanted what was best for Sakura. In this picture Naruto seems like he just wants Sarada and possibly Sakura to be happy. Compared to how he treated Boruto at the end of 700 and gaiden it is really refreshing.

 

...Looking at the picture again, I guess you're right. Maybe I got the wrong panel/page, then? I never really read Naruto Gaiden myself, I just read various chapter by chapter reviews to get the gist of what was happening.

 

 

 

--

 

 

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but can someone explain to me how Gaara controls sand?

Wow. This thread exploded.


I dislike Yamcha for personal reasons, but never to the point some other DB fans are. I lost contact with one of my betas because he wanted me to bash Yamcha in my fanfic and I told him I was just going to not include him in the story (other than flashbacks) since he doesn't have a specific role.

Wait why didn't he do that after the war and bring everyone who died back.

Because if he did, NH and SS wouldn't happen. LOL.

It was obvious by the time Kaguya showed up in the manga that Kishi had like zero f-ks to give. Interviews can't be trusted anymore because he can't stay consistent. Story can't be properly analyzed because nothing is consistent. Retcons, retcons everywhere.

 

 

 

I knew toriyama would be number 1 from the get go BUT I HAD NO IDEA HE WAS THE ONE WHO MADE THE CHARACTER DESIGNS OF CHRONO TRIGGER!! huh the more you know xD

 

LOL I thought everybody knew it just by looking at Chrono Trigger's official artwork? Even if you don't think it's Toriyama's immediately, you can't help but think "these designs looks familiar..."

Remember guys, this Sakura novel has Sakura and Ino opening a clinic for children's healthy mental development.

Pray tell, why weren't Boruto and Sarada helped with their family issues? Why is Chouchou so worried about her weight? Why hasn't anyone in that clinic tried to make an intervention when they discovered Mitsuki's previous living conditions? Why is Kawaki going to destroy Konoha and (maybe) kill Naruto? Why is Sakura never shown actually working??

It's useless, it's all useless. Sakura has been living in self denial for so long, who's to say that this entire Sakura novel isn't a fabrication of her mind?

And don't even get me started on the villain of her novel.

Plus, this is supposed to be a novel about Sakura's "hidden feelings". This is pure baloney. A waste of time and money, because there is nothing in this novel that contributes to the main story and influences it in a meaningful way. ...I suppose they got that part of Sakura consistent.

What ultimately disappointed me about Sakura was the fact that she was one of the four main characters of Naruto (that's Team 7, basically).

 

People would claim in the past that "Hinata makes a better heroine than Sakura" but these are the shippers talking. Anyone who seriously compared the two of them before The Last had their shipper goggles on full power, fighting over whether Naruto should father Hinata's babies or Sakura's babies. Other than Uzumaki Naruto, they had nothing relevant to compare with each other.

 

Because Sakura was a main character, and Hinata was a side character. That's all there is to it.

 

Hinata was a side character, so expectations for her were relatively low.

 

Sakura on the other hand was a MAIN character, and her character development and relevancy to the plot was supposed to be keeping up with Naruto's, Sasuke's, and Kakashi's. Or at least keeping up with Kakashi's development/relevancy because one of the major focuses of the manga was the Naruto/Sasuke rivalry.

 

Her development in part 1 was... okay. She started out as a noisy brat who didn't understand orphans. Then she had the scene where she was unable to keep from crying when Sasuke was presumed dead in the Waves arc. She then protected Naruto and Sasuke from Sound ninja in the Chuunin Exams. Her fight with her rival Ino in the prelims was a moment of strength for her. POAL happened. And then she goes up to Tsunade and asks for training.

 

At the beginning of part 2 her development/relevance skyrocketed so much, fans were going crazy. She singlehandedly saved Kankuro from death by poison, a poison that no one knew how to treat, with the skills she'd picked up during the timeskip. She teamed up with Chiyo to fight with Sasori and beat him, when in the past all she could do was just act as a meat shield with a kunai.

 

Expectations of Sakura were hyped up like crazy... and Sakura herself just stopped. She was just there. Or used as a device, like a side character. She failed to live up to the weighty expectations that had been placed on her. In comparison, Sasuke and Naruto's characters got loads and loads of attention and relevancy. Kakashi faded from the spotlight for a while, but bounced back when Obito's identity was revealed. But Sakura's development/relevance just came to a halt after the Gaara Rescue arc. Worse, her development/relevancy took a nosedive during the Kage Summit arc.

 

The Kage Summit arc was arguably one of the worst arcs of part 2 and the entire series, because while the War arc created plot hole after plot hole, the Kage Summit arc gave all four main characters negative character development. Sakura got hit by it the worst, because up until then her relevancy/development had been completely static. I'm not talking about her confession to Naruto. I'm talking about when she had the chance to kill/seriously injure Sasuke, and didn't take it.

 

We already know about how her spine had been ripped away from her and all she began to focus on was Sasuke, resetting any development she had left, so I won't talk about it here. I think everyone would agree that Sakura was beyond saving when Sasuke told her "sorry" and she replied with "for what?".

 

Sakura had the potential. Kakashi had pointed out in part 1 that Sakura was intelligent, had a talent for chakra control and genjutsu, and was "the same as Naruto" in the sense that she hated giving up and refused to go down easily. In part 2 Kakashi also noted that at the rate of her development, Sakura would soon surpass Tsunade herself. Chiyo commented that Sakura had a noble heart, which was rare (among kunoichi). Ignoring the slight sexist undertones, Chiyo was referring to Sakura's strength of character as a person and as a shinobi. Sakura had the potential... and she failed to live up to everyone's expectations.

 

So.

 

Sakura got replaced by Hinata as a main character in The Last.

 

Now that the focus was on Hinata and not on Sakura (who was officially a side character at this point), we see the exact same problems.

 

Hinata actually has a workable backstory: her father issues, her self-esteem issues, and the Hyuuga Branch enslavement issues. Mysteriously, they are never brought up, and her shyness isn't acknowledged by the narrative as a character flaw. Instead, it gets heavily romanticized.

 

Hinata is shown to not have changed at all since her part 1 self. She is unable to give Naruto a scarf without some serious prodding from Sakura. Actually, it's even worse because in part 1, Hinata mustered up the courage to give Naruto the medicine herself (and succeeded), but in The Last she was literally unable to talk to Naruto for two whole years, and was unable to give the scarf to Naruto until they were in the middle of dangerous enemy territory, with her own sister suffering from missing eyeballs close by.

 

When she learns about Toneri's plans to destroy the world and what he did to Hanabi's eyes, she keeps the information to herself instead of informing her teammates about it, then proceeds to romantically frolic with Naruto through a destroyed city and fix the red scarf. When she finds out that she is the Byakugan Princess in that very same city, destined to save the world, from Hamura Otsutsuki himself, she again keeps that vital information to herself instead of coming up with a plan together with her teammates and continues to knit the red scarf, then goes off by herself with Toneri without a word. She isn't even shown worrying about Hanabi, her own sister, at all.

 

Despite her newly acquired powers she'd gained from Hamura as the Byakugan Princess, which supposedly makes her stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke, she is unable to follow through and destroy the Tenseigan. Even if her success was dictated by destiny itself. Toneri, who doesn't trust Hinata at all, for some inexplicable reason covers his entire face right in full view of her because the pain of his developing doujutsu is too great, and Hinata doesn't capitalize on it. It's Sakura failing to capitalize on her chance to kill Sasuke all over again, except now it's Hinata's turn to fail.

 

The only important things Hinata got to do in her own movie were: 1) Infiltrate Toneri's castle 2) pluck out Hanabi's eyeballs from Toneri's eyesockets 3) Do a combination attack with Naruto.

 

And then when everything ended, Hinata invites Toneri, the same guy who nearly ended all life as we know it, the same guy who tried to force marriage on her (and most likely rape her later on), the same guy who stole Hanabi's eyeballs, the same guy who destroyed Naruto-kun's red scarf that she worked so hard on since the beginning of this movie, to live with them on earth. Toneri refuses the offer and decides to live alone on the moon to repent. Basically, Hinata did the same thing as Sakura and instantly forgave Toneri for all the atrocities he'd committed, and Toneri pulled a Sasuke by staying away to "repent" but instead of becoming a wanderer, he's on the moon. And thus he got away with everything. Sasuke had the excuse of being one of those who saved the world, what's Toneri's excuse?

 

When the Bolt movie came out, she was made irrelevant again.

 

The conclusion is thus: Sakura failed as a main character, and her relevancy/story arc/character development just went full circle, all the way back to her chapter 3 self. And Hinata also failed as a main character, because she also went full circle by going from being irrelevant, to being a relevant main character and failing to meet the standards placed on her, and then falling quickly back to her irrelevant status. If the title "heroine" means "which girl successfully banged Naruto" and nothing else, then I don't give a damn anymore.

Sasuke will obviously pull a Nagato and bring Naruto back to life with his Rinnegan. I mean if Kakashi can completely bypass the requirements for Susanoo with the power of friendship, who says Sasuke (who is already known for Deus ex Sharingan in the original series and is currently getting wanked by the current writer Ukyo) can't do the same?

Statement: It would have been a better idea to have female characters to do stuff but in return, plenty of fan service. Regardless, it would have been better than what we have today.

Agree or disagree?

 

Agree, because 95% of the original fanservice was provided by a boy who transforms into a sexy girl.

 

...Kishi should have went with a gay battle manga or something if he loved pretty boys so much

 

 

 

On a different note, seeing how antagonistic Naruto is acting after ch 700... Maybe Kishi will finally reveal the details of Naruto's past to us and end up retconning even more stuff in the process. Since he loves developing his villains more than his heroes.

Statement: Kaguya is the main problem to War Arc or even in general. While the series has other flaws, the reason to say she made it worse, if not solidly destroyed it, was because not only she was the starting point of all mayhem but it also made everything in life manufactured, everything was in controlled, and barely anything was genuine to their problems or characters.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree. The main problem of the war arc is the numerous plot holes and tumors and retcons it gave birth to. And said war arc dragged on for years and years. Kaguya was just another cool idea in the "cool idea" pile with horrible execution. Like all the other cool ideas.

If the point of a tv drama's plot is waiting for two main characters to finally hook up and - later on - get married, and one of the two central characters is getting removed from the story completely, the studio might as well discontinue the series.

 

 

Currently different websites say different things. Some say that she was fired, some say that no one asked her yet to return for another season (other actors have been saying that they haven't been asked either, so who knows).

 

 

Then maybe there's hope. Maybe it's still too early to call foul on ABC. If it's budgetary concerns then maybe the show will be put on hiatus for a while instead, since some other actors haven't been asked yet.

Or maybe Katic is getting replaced with another actress that will play her role? To my understanding, extending actor contracts can get really expensive.