54175 replies to this topic

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Sakura hasn't been seen in the original stuff in the Boruto manga yet, and since "Naruto is just Naruto to her" a year ago nothing from the anime as far as I know. I imagine they are too desperate selling BS to do anything else.

 

I see. Is Sakura dead in the Boruto manga?

[TheFirstEvil100]

 
I see. Is Sakura dead in the Boruto manga?

She might as well be the Sakura we once knew is long since dead her character destroyed thanks to the ending 693 and the novels, each one killed the badass woman Sakura used to be, this woman we now see in Bolt is not Sakura.

[VanitasDS76491]

She might as well be the Sakura we once knew is long since dead her character destroyed thanks to the ending 693 and the novels, each one killed the badass woman Sakura used to be, this woman we now see in Bolt is not Sakura.

I wish your Akira story could take the place of this.

[VanitasDS76491]

I see. Is Sakura dead in the Boruto manga?

If so I hope she went you fighting while hinata dies as the butch she is.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

She might as well be the Sakura we once knew is long since dead her character destroyed thanks to the ending 693 and the novels, each one killed the badass woman Sakura used to be, this woman we now see in Bolt is not Sakura.

 

What are the chances she died or ran away with Naruto? 

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Off topic but Stan Lee died today.

[jak123]

Off topic but Stan Lee died today.

f

[TheFirstEvil100]

 
What are the chances she died or ran away with Naruto? 

I think its better that she died then the kitten ending Sakura got.

[Branden]

I just want to throw this out there. Many of you may recall "Road To Ninja: Naruto the Movie".

 

 

Do you think that this movie was perhaps an attempt to do what they couldn't do in canon? I don't know who was really responsible for the build up of Naruto and Sakura's relationship. It may have been Kishimoto's idea, or one of the editor's ideas, or maybe it was an accident. Regardless of whose idea it was, the manga showed us Naruto and Sakura's relationship developing into love and slowly into romance. It was never fully realized of course, and we got NaruHina in the end, but that doesn't change what led up to that.

 

Road to Ninja seems like a glimpse into what could have been. For me personally, I view this film as a writer's desperation to show what they really wanted, but couldn't make happen. There are so many details in this movie that indicate to me that the canon manga was a mix of 2 different people influencing the story. Someone at Jump wanted Road to Ninja, and someone else wanted The Last. Whoever wanted The Last seems to have been given complete control of the manga in its final chapters and that sudden change of direction is what made the ending of the manga feel so wrong. I think the reason it felt like the ending to a different story is because it was someone else making the decisions at that point.

 

I don't know if these thoughts are old news but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. If anyone happens to know if there disagreements between Kishimoto and his Editors or Jump executives then I'd be interested to know.

[tricksie]

 

Road to Ninja seems like a glimpse into what could have been. For me personally, I view this film as a writer's desperation to show what they really wanted, but couldn't make happen. There are so many details in this movie that indicate to me that the canon manga was a mix of 2 different people influencing the story. Someone at Jump wanted Road to Ninja, and someone else wanted The Last. Whoever wanted The Last seems to have been given complete control of the manga in its final chapters and that sudden change of direction is what made the ending of the manga feel so wrong. I think the reason it felt like the ending to a different story is because it was someone else making the decisions at that point.

 

 

When it first came out, I remember thinking it was a fun, light-hearted take on Naruto with the types of hijinks that were there in the early part of the series. Like the personality switching and romantic stuff was only good for people who had been fans for a while. However, I also thought the reason for a light-hearted fun movie was because the ending was going to be so serious, so dramatic, so leveled-up in maturity, violence and character death scenarios that there needed to be a pause before it all started. 

 

Boy was I wrong.

 

It turns out this movie was just a last nod to the way the series had been up until then. Yes, it was a fun 'inside joke' type thing for people who had been fans. But it was also a 'what could have been' for those fans who shipped NS like the series had been building. This was the movie for them. Because after this it was clearly all going downhill — it was the end of the ship, there would be a main character death, and then the bait-and-switch ending to NH. 

 

My theory about the end of the manga is that they didn't alter the chapters from NS, they just added a NH ending. And my theory with this movie is that it might have been the true 'last' movie had they decided not to go NH. But instead of changing it, they just added a super romantic, sappy Hinata centric movie to explain their romance and launch the next series. Thus the crowd pleasing last movie that might have been Road to Ninja instead became the second-to-last movie and the NS consolation prize.

[James S Cassidy]

When it first came out, I remember thinking it was a fun, light-hearted take on Naruto with the types of hijinks that were there in the early part of the series. Like the personality switching and romantic stuff was only good for people who had been fans for a while. However, I also thought the reason for a light-hearted fun movie was because the ending was going to be so serious, so dramatic, so leveled-up in maturity, violence and character death scenarios that there needed to be a pause before it all started. 

 

Boy was I wrong.

 

It turns out this movie was just a last nod to the way the series had been up until then. Yes, it was a fun 'inside joke' type thing for people who had been fans. But it was also a 'what could have been' for those fans who shipped NS like the series had been building. This was the movie for them. Because after this it was clearly all going downhill — it was the end of the ship, there would be a main character death, and then the bait-and-switch ending to NH. 

 

My theory about the end of the manga is that they didn't alter the chapters from NS, they just added a NH ending. And my theory with this movie is that it might have been the true 'last' movie had they decided not to go NH. But instead of changing it, they just added a super romantic, sappy Hinata centric movie to explain their romance and launch the next series. Thus the crowd pleasing last movie that might have been Road to Ninja instead became the second-to-last movie and the NS consolation prize.

Hindsight is a jerk.

Kishimoto even wanted to put a pro-NS scene at the end of Road to Ninja, but they made him change it. I wonder why now. Although, Road to Ninja really makes me believe that Kishimoto wanted NS, but they made him change it. The evidence is there in both the manga, the interviews, and so much more. I truly believed they forced him or somehow convinced him that people wanted NH when really they all expected NS.

By the way, I made a thing.
This is what it feels like when people say "Naruto is not a romance manga."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 14 November 2018 - 10:35 PM.

[Phantom_999]

EXACTLY, Naruto is not a romance manga, It is about how intimately Naruto and Sasuke entwine their d***s together ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ according to Kishi and he DID MAKE IT CLEAR that was the only theme he ever really cared about or thought deeply of. So why was Hinata the sole focus of the only movie called canon to the manga?

[Branden]

I suppose we have to remember that we're in the minority in the west. Other than this website, it seems like everyone on the internet hates Sakura more than anything in the world and they support Hinata simply because she's not Sakura.

 

Maybe I looked too closely at the characters and lost the ability to relate with the average fan. Maybe the real mass appeal was ninjas and fighting, and anything that impeded that got looked at with scorn. Sakura was often put in positions where she was either a liability in the fight or far outclassed by the other fighters. If you combine that with her bratty fangirl attitude at the start you can see why more casual viewers would hate her.

 

And then I have to ask myself, did anyone consider the ending to be good? If 100 random fans read the final chapter, how many would have thought it was a good end to the series? Would that number have been higher or lower if we got a NaruSaku end?

 

Honestly I think it would have been lower. Even if it was better writing, even if it was truer to the characters, even if it led to a better sequel series, it still would have been utterly rejected by the masses. Ultimately Naruto is just a product, and Jump is a business.

 

I would just really like to know Kishimoto's thoughts on what happened. It's frustrating even years later not having answers to all these questions and Naruto's continued relevance even if diminished serves only to remind me of the way Jump butchered a decade long story so they could keep it going just a little bit longer.

[ultranx]

I suppose we have to remember that we're in the minority in the west. Other than this website, it seems like everyone on the internet hates Sakura more than anything in the world and they support Hinata simply because she's not Sakura.

 

Maybe I looked too closely at the characters and lost the ability to relate with the average fan. Maybe the real mass appeal was ninjas and fighting, and anything that impeded that got looked at with scorn. Sakura was often put in positions where she was either a liability in the fight or far outclassed by the other fighters. If you combine that with her bratty fangirl attitude at the start you can see why more casual viewers would hate her.

 

And then I have to ask myself, did anyone consider the ending to be good? If 100 random fans read the final chapter, how many would have thought it was a good end to the series? Would that number have been higher or lower if we got a NaruSaku end?

 

Honestly I think it would have been lower. Even if it was better writing, even if it was truer to the characters, even if it led to a better sequel series, it still would have been utterly rejected by the masses. Ultimately Naruto is just a product, and Jump is a business.

 

I would just really like to know Kishimoto's thoughts on what happened. It's frustrating even years later not having answers to all these questions and Naruto's continued relevance even if diminished serves only to remind me of the way Jump butchered a decade long story so they could keep it going just a little bit longer.

we're not really a minority in the west, there's plenty of fans like us who supported sakura and hated the ending,there wouldn't be such a huge backlash otherwise. the key thing here is all these so called "majority" fans were ones who pirated the series and treated what they read in fanfics as canon and were just more vocal than us, having the bigger youtubers and everything. heck when the last was first in the works they were spamming the movie pages begging for naruhina to become canon, before the ending even happened.

Edited by ultranx, 15 November 2018 - 06:30 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

nH/SS fans were the vocal minority that they assumed was the overall opinion of the fanbase. While the silent majority was quite and ignored until they realized we were the ones buying stuff to support the series, while nH/SS fans just pirated.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I'm  watching FMA and the more I see EdWinry the more they remind me of NaruSaku.

[James S Cassidy]

I suppose we have to remember that we're in the minority in the west. Other than this website, it seems like everyone on the internet hates Sakura more than anything in the world and they support Hinata simply because she's not Sakura.

 

Maybe I looked too closely at the characters and lost the ability to relate with the average fan. Maybe the real mass appeal was ninjas and fighting, and anything that impeded that got looked at with scorn. Sakura was often put in positions where she was either a liability in the fight or far outclassed by the other fighters. If you combine that with her bratty fangirl attitude at the start you can see why more casual viewers would hate her.

 

And then I have to ask myself, did anyone consider the ending to be good? If 100 random fans read the final chapter, how many would have thought it was a good end to the series? Would that number have been higher or lower if we got a NaruSaku end?

 

Honestly I think it would have been lower. Even if it was better writing, even if it was truer to the characters, even if it led to a better sequel series, it still would have been utterly rejected by the masses. Ultimately Naruto is just a product, and Jump is a business.

 

I would just really like to know Kishimoto's thoughts on what happened. It's frustrating even years later not having answers to all these questions and Naruto's continued relevance even if diminished serves only to remind me of the way Jump butchered a decade long story so they could keep it going just a little bit longer.

 

But there is more people in the world than just Japan and the West and Kishimoto said he knew that he raised such a controversial problem with the battle between NS and NH. So the fact that he acknowledged it means that he was aware that the West wasn't just NH oriented.

In fact, United States is the only place that has a huge NH following. Literally every where else they loved NS, Sakura, and even loved Sasuke. Even the English VAs loved SNS and NS more than NH and they even expressed how they hoped SNS was more of a thing than NH. They didn't have a care in the world for Hinata or NH.

Brazil, Spain, Portugal (a lot of spanish speaking countries), Venezuela, the list keeps going were all in support of NS. Even in Britain and most of Europe, the fanbase was very SNS or NS oriented. The SNS fans weren't salty about SNS not being a couple because they knew it was never gonna happen. They knew that the shonen was going to end in a straight couple and most of them said "Well, if it is gonna be that then it has to be NS and SK." This is why the SNS joined our side.

The problem was NOT majority vs minority....the problem was which pairing fans has the positions of power which unfortunately it was the Hinata fan wankers that  held the positions. Half or most of SP, including the staff heads, and even Kishimoto's later editors all loved Hinata dearly. So they pushed for it...hard. They loved Hinata so much they wanked her every chance they got.

It wasn't even about NH per say. Hinata wanting Naruto was a bi-product of their lust for her. They didn't care if NH was canon. They only cared about what Hinata wanted which so happened to be Naruto. She could have loved Kiba and they would have pushed for Kiba to marry Hinata.

Kishimoto didn't care about Hinata. She was just some random girl in the village that had a crush on the MC. Kishimoto has no intention or plans for her until people wanted her to be more important. This is why Kishimoto didn't focus on her until much much much later in the story.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 16 November 2018 - 07:00 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

I'm  watching FMA and the more I see EdWinry the more they remind me of NaruSaku.

You watching brotherhood it's really good and Ed and winry are perfect together and had more interaction and development in the whole series then that bs NH movie and here's a shock ed and winry had a real past together unlike the forced past NH had.

[Bail o' Lies]

 

But there is more people in the world than just Japan and the West and Kishimoto said he knew that he raised such a controversial problem with the battle between NS and NH. So the fact that he acknowledged it means that he was aware that the West wasn't just NH oriented.

In fact, United States is the only place that has a huge NH following. Literally every where else they loved NS, Sakura, and even loved Sasuke. Even the English VAs loved SNS and NS more than NH and they even expressed how they hoped SNS was more of a thing than NH. They didn't have a care in the world for Hinata or NH.

Brazil, Spain, Portugal (a lot of spanish speaking countries), Venezuela, the list keeps going were all in support of NS. Even in Britain and most of Europe, the fanbase was very SNS or NS oriented. The SNS fans weren't salty about SNS not being a couple because they knew it was never gonna happen. They knew that the shonen was going to end in a straight couple and most of them said "Well, if it is gonna be that then it has to be NS and SK." This is why the SNS joined our side.

The problem was NOT majority vs minority....the problem was which pairing fans has the positions of power which unfortunately it was the Hinata fan wankers that  held the positions. Half or most of SP, including the staff heads, and even Kishimoto's later editors all loved Hinata dearly. So they pushed for it...hard. They loved Hinata so much they wanked her every chance they got.

It wasn't even about NH per say. Hinata wanting Naruto was a bi-product of their lust for her. They didn't care if NH was canon. They only cared about what Hinata wanted which so happened to be Naruto. She could have loved Kiba and they would have pushed for Kiba to marry Hinata.

Kishimoto didn't care about Hinata. She was just some random girl in the village that had a crush on the MC. Kishimoto has no intention or plans for her until people wanted her to be more important. This is why Kishimoto didn't focus on her until much much much later in the story.

Why do you think I write the pairing as nH? It was never about Naruto it was always about Hinata.

 

As for why they focused on the American fanbase? Well you already answered part of that yourself. The people that were in the position to influence kishimoto in the later half of part two were largely Hinata fanatics who wanted her to get want she wanted. At first, they just tried out-right convincing him that Hinata should be the new heroine after the Pain arc due to the scene the editor told him to write. Which he rejected outright because it was a stupid idea to replace the heroine so far into the story for no reason, especially for a character he doesn't care about. So, they switched tactics and started using the fans desires to force him to make her the heroine. So, they were not going to show him the various countries that preferred NS, and didn't care about nH. They were going to find the areas where nH support was huge, and used that to force Kishimoto to change the end pairing. After the Pain arc because finally gave them a scene, and the next arc put their pairing under threat again because Sakura finally confessed her feeling to Naruto that motivated nH fans to send kishimoto many letters about how awful Sakura is, and how perfect Hinata is. After that all the editors had to do was just ignore everyone else, and just keep showing Kishimoto the American fanbase. 

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 16 November 2018 - 11:36 PM.

[DrK]

The American fanbase really shouldn't even be a factor. Talk about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It's not like Marvel is over here asking how well their kitten is going to go down with the Japanese.