44 replies to this topic

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Okay, so according to Kishimoto and what he endorses. (This is all the interviews, etc.)

Salad is actually Sasuke and Karin's kid and they lied to her the whole time because of some mysterious reasons.
SasuSaku and NaruHina get a divorce because they are horribly miserable
Naruto and Sakura have an affair because why not? Not like Sasuke and Hinata actually put out and seeing how their relationship is closer than anything else, it is easy to see them doing this.
Sasuke and Sakura never had sex period because Kishimoto never said they did.

And the Road to Ninja Universe is completely canon and that "was what he wanted to do the whole time." Got it.

Canon for the win.

 

Well, I never said the man was consistent or anything. Nothing he's written makes sense and much of it contradicts itself, but he's the writer and if he said it happened then it did. It's really all the same pile of crap to me.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 26 September 2015 - 04:38 PM.

[Hanabi]

i'd much rather be called salty than consider the last/gaiden/boruto/novels/sp fillers/whatever else as canon. i can accept the manga though.

 

the subsequent works really don't do justice to the manga that i once loved.

[rocci]

 
Well, I never said the man was consistent or anything. Nothing he's written makes sense and much of it contradicts itself, but he's the writer and if he said it happened then it did. It's really all the same pile of crap to me.

This.

Kishi is the writer of naruto. Anything that he consider canon is canon. No matter how bad or good it was.

[Yojeveka]

It's sad to think how "canon" does not mean anything anymore. Everything is so retconned that we can't trust what we see. 

 

Naruto loving Sakura was canon at some point, right? Oh, nevermind! Just rivalry.

 

Hard work all the way! No, wait, you need to be the chosen one in order to do something useful.

 

Naruto learned Kage bunshin when he was 12 and he saved Iruka. Ha! Gotcha, he used that jutsu to help Hinata when they were kids. 

 

Even now, with NH and SS being canon, who says it will remain like this forever? It's too late tho, Naruto was killed by Kishimoto's inconsistency.

[Nostradamus]

It's sad to think how "canon" does not mean anything anymore. Everything is so retconned that we can't trust what we see. 

 

Naruto loving Sakura was canon at some point, right? Oh, nevermind! Just rivalry.

 

Hard work all the way! No, wait, you need to be the chosen one in order to do something useful.

 

Naruto learned Kage bunshin when he was 12 and he saved Iruka. Ha! Gotcha, he used that jutsu to help Hinata when they were kids. 

 

Even now, with NH and SS being canon, who says it will remain like this forever? It's too late tho, Naruto was killed by Kishimoto's inconsistency.

100% accurate.

[James S Cassidy]

It's sad to think how "canon" does not mean anything anymore. Everything is so retconned that we can't trust what we see. 

 

Naruto loving Sakura was canon at some point, right? Oh, nevermind! Just rivalry.

 

Hard work all the way! No, wait, you need to be the chosen one in order to do something useful.

 

Naruto learned Kage bunshin when he was 12 and he saved Iruka. Ha! Gotcha, he used that jutsu to help Hinata when they were kids. 

 

Even now, with NH and SS being canon, who says it will remain like this forever? It's too late tho, Naruto was killed by Kishimoto's inconsistency.

That's what I keep saying. A lot of people keep saying on how canon is canon or what is canon or what is this, but how can we take anything as canon when even Kishimoto can't keep the story straight. He basically admitted in one interview that he changes and retcons things just to adhere to a story element so nothing ever remains.

So what is canon? Whatever Kishimoto wants at this time. You might as well say there is no canon because it is all over the place. Accept it? Accept what? What is there to accept when every time Naruto turns up another story element changes.

[Tiller]

What's canon officially? It's what Kishimoto wants it to be. What's my head canon? That's different.

[Hanabi]

It's sad to think how "canon" does not mean anything anymore. Everything is so retconned that we can't trust what we see. 

 

Naruto loving Sakura was canon at some point, right? Oh, nevermind! Just rivalry.

 

Hard work all the way! No, wait, you need to be the chosen one in order to do something useful.

 

Naruto learned Kage bunshin when he was 12 and he saved Iruka. Ha! Gotcha, he used that jutsu to help Hinata when they were kids. 

 

Even now, with NH and SS being canon, who says it will remain like this forever? It's too late tho, Naruto was killed by Kishimoto's inconsistency.

made me laughed

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

That's what I keep saying. A lot of people keep saying on how canon is canon or what is canon or what is this, but how can we take anything as canon when even Kishimoto can't keep the story straight. He basically admitted in one interview that he changes and retcons things just to adhere to a story element so nothing ever remains.

So what is canon? Whatever Kishimoto wants at this time. You might as well say there is no canon because it is all over the place. Accept it? Accept what? What is there to accept when every time Naruto turns up another story element changes.

 

Which just sucks in the long run, because he could up and go "Oh, I'm sorry, everything I've done so far has been nothing but the Infinite Tsukuyomi and Madara really isn't dead. Gotcha!" ~_~

[Nostradamus]

That's what I keep saying. A lot of people keep saying on how canon is canon or what is canon or what is this, but how can we take anything as canon when even Kishimoto can't keep the story straight. He basically admitted in one interview that he changes and retcons things just to adhere to a story element so nothing ever remains.

So what is canon? Whatever Kishimoto wants at this time. You might as well say there is no canon because it is all over the place. Accept it? Accept what? What is there to accept when every time Naruto turns up another story element changes.

Precisely.

The reality with Naruto is that there is no canon. The so called ending combined with The Last and everything that came up after rendered the entire Naruto story from chapters 1 to 698 as pointless. Making them non-canon.

It doesn't matter what was said or done in those chapters because it has no meaning anymore because what came after erased them from existence. And the same thing could and will happen to whatever crap they're releasing these days.

 

One day they will release either new chapters or anime series or just a interview that will declare that what is done today never happened. Saying it's not canonical. Saying that whatever they do then is. But don't worry will be declared as non-canonical as well later on. In a way you could call it "The never ending cycle of Naruto" where nothing is really canon but what Kishi/they say in that moment in time.

 

And what Kishi/they said will only be canon until the next time Kishi/they say something else or do something else.

 

Nothing is canon. Everything is permitted.

Edited by Nostradamus, 27 September 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[archangel]

Precisely.

The reality with Naruto is that there is no canon. The so called ending combined with The Last and everything that came up after rendered the entire Naruto story from chapters 1 to 698 as pointless. Making them non-canon.

It doesn't matter what was said or done in those chapters because it has no meaning anymore because what came after erased them from existence. And the same thing could and will happen to whatever crap they're releasing these days.

 

One day they will release either new chapters or anime series or just a interview that will declare that what is done today never happened. Saying it's not canonical. Saying that whatever they do then is. But don't worry will be declared as non-canonical as well later on. In a way you could call it "The never ending cycle of Naruto" where nothing is really canon but what Kishi/they say in that moment in time.

 

And what Kishi/they said will only be canon until the next time Kishi/they say something else or do something else.

 

Nothing is canon. Everything is permitted.

For me, that where the story end. The rest come out from a different timeline. It literally make no sense and throw everything that happen before out of the window. What sad is that Naruto for me end up like on of those TV show that got good at some point, but the guys knew the show was cancel so they butchered and rushed the conclusion, making the whole experience a mess.

 

Thing is they now tried to milk the franchise, but it's not as great or as popular as it once was (at least for me.) On Netflix, Naruto 1st part arrive. The good old day. Seeing that make me feel sad, angry and disappointed at the same time. Either he didn't think it through with what he was doing or plain lose control, either still hurt by that. I didn't watch much anime and honestly Naruto didn't make me watch other anime. (The only other I watch was dragon ball)  

 

Thank god I watch Hunter X Hunter (2014), Kill la Kill, One Piece and Rurounin Kenshin afterward. Only One piece is still ongoing and while being longer than Naruto, it's doesn't feel like a drag to watch what happen (cuz that's how I felt during the whole war arc). All of those were fun, fight where great and for the 3 that got an ending, it end well and I felt closure on those story (Hunter X Hunter might continue in book, but there is no update for a long time)

 

Anyway, Kishi make a mess of this story. Even if it is the author and what he said is canon, as a writer, he must be coherent with his sotry and if he changes idea on a whim, it must be done within time and explanation, not just pop those in a story without a explanation, misleading everyone with OBVIOUS parallel and thing like the new generation will surpass the old one. But it is the freaking sage of the 6 path, who gave both Naruto and Sasuke power to ended the fight, which said to be the father of all ninja, how older can you get. Notstarting on the whole 4 Hokage incident showing how a whole battlefield of ninja are worthless.

 

It might sound whiny and all but at this point, he loses all right for me to tell me what to believe on his story. That why I say people decide what's canon. He failed to close the story properly. Those questions are just small example of what went wrong.

How Naruto surpasses the previous Kage? With hard work or by being a godlike entity? Without Kurama, does Naruto surpasses the previous Kages? How many wind ninjutsu Naruto knows except Rasen-Shuriken?

[starlitestarbrite]

 it looks like there are MANY versions of the same series! first about ninjas' did anyone notice the plot shifting several times from small little OOC outbursts' like "i hate people who lie to themselves" to HUGE things like plots' pulled out of NOWHERE like the reincarnation thing, kaguya, ect then you have the last, and gaiden, and boruto which are a timeline of their own! plus other mini novels', rock lees series,various OVAs' and MORE

 

and THAT everyone is how you make scrambled eggs studio pierrot style! this isn't a series at all! just a bunch of ideas' crammed into one big giant mess! with no imagination, no creativity, too much carelessness about the characters', and the main original series, it seems like several different people besides kishi wrote naruto cause he can't do ANYTHING on his own!.

 

so, what's canon? fanon is canon! because even though they're kishimoto's characters' the series is EVERYONE ELSE'S' series! so...NOTHING IS CANON! it's every fans nightmare...or dream. i have read predictions for the chapters',doujinshi, fanfiction, seen fan art of naruto WAAAY better than what we really got!

Edited by starlitestarbrite, 01 October 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[RisenFromTheAshes]

 it looks like there are MANY versions of the same series! first about ninjas' did anyone notice the plot shifting several times from small little OOC outbursts' like "i hate people who lie to themselves" to HUGE things like plots' pulled out of NOWHERE like the reincarnation thing, kaguya, ect then you have the last, and gaiden, and boruto which are a timeline of their own! plus other mini novels', rock lees series,various OVAs' and MORE

 

and THAT everyone is how you make scrambled eggs studio pierrot style! this isn't a series at all! just a bunch of ideas' crammed into one big giant mess! with no imagination, no creativity, too much carelessness about the characters', and the main original series, it seems like several different people besides kishi wrote naruto cause he can't do ANYTHING on his own!.

 

so, what's canon? fanon is canon! because even though they're kishimoto's characters' the series is EVERYONE ELSE'S' series! so...NOTHING IS CANON! it's every fans nightmare...or dream. i have read predictions for the chapters',doujinshi, fanfiction, seen fan art of naruto WAAAY better than what we really got!

I agree. I'd say that for me, canon ends at the end of the Pein Arc. I wasn't too thrilled with the whole forth shinobi war arc at all but I was completely done with it when the multiple power-boost transformation happened. I've truly read many fanfictions, doujinshi and fan art that are well developed, cohesive and make sense. I'd put all of those over the canon but I digress. I'd say that all of it would be canon technically because of how there isn't really canon system established in Naruto. I think the only things that are even considered to be non-canon are the movies (except for The Last and The Boruto film) but I have friends who consider it all canon. 

[James S Cassidy]

Precisely.

The reality with Naruto is that there is no canon. The so called ending combined with The Last and everything that came up after rendered the entire Naruto story from chapters 1 to 698 as pointless. Making them non-canon.

It doesn't matter what was said or done in those chapters because it has no meaning anymore because what came after erased them from existence. And the same thing could and will happen to whatever crap they're releasing these days.

 

One day they will release either new chapters or anime series or just a interview that will declare that what is done today never happened. Saying it's not canonical. Saying that whatever they do then is. But don't worry will be declared as non-canonical as well later on. In a way you could call it "The never ending cycle of Naruto" where nothing is really canon but what Kishi/they say in that moment in time.

 

And what Kishi/they said will only be canon until the next time Kishi/they say something else or do something else.

 

Nothing is canon. Everything is permitted.

 

 

Which just sucks in the long run, because he could up and go "Oh, I'm sorry, everything I've done so far has been nothing but the Infinite Tsukuyomi and Madara really isn't dead. Gotcha!" ~_~

Exactly. Madara might as well be alive at this point and Naruto is basically just living in a dream world. It would make sense seeing how everything just magically fixed itself without Naruto having to do anything. The whole ending reeks of "anti-climatic." We can;t even say "If Kishimoto endorsed or made it..." because then Road to Ninja would be considered canon and noone wants to admit that one.

So like Marvel and DC, Naruto is written in several universe.

You have the original universe also known as "Earth-1" which is Chapters 1 - 698.

You then have the Studio Perriot universe which is the anime, chapters 699-700, Naruto the Last, Naruto Gaiden, and Bolt the movie. Several interviews showcase that Kishimoto didn't plan this at all at most he just "contributed" to the universe. He was basically the add on like how Toriyama was to Dragonball GT. Didn't write it, but provided drawings and stuff. (People would argue Bolt the movie, but then I would argue that the plot of Naruto and Sasuke fighting a new threat together was the plan and not the fact that Bolt is in it or any of the other crap.)

and then you have the Road to Universe which is an AU, but still canon because it exists parallel. (Sad that there was supposed to be a NS scene in it at the end, but they took it out.)

You could also bring in the movies, but like Dragonball, they are what if scenarios.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 October 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[Kobolum]

I think most people are ignoring the actual point of this conversation because let's face it the ultimate fact is the entire manga and whatever Kishimoto says is canon is canon, as much as we all hate it we have to accept it.

No the real point is what we all want to be canon and there is a lot we want to be canon and a lot we don't want to be canon unfortunately the facts are the facts and that's that. But as many smart people have been pointing out it is possible for Kishimoto to come back and change a lot of what he did because it was ultimately his manga and he can do that.

What I think most people don't realize is that there are several gaping a plot holes throughout the actual cannon that Kishimoto can come back and take advantage of later. For example the prophecy (no not that prophecy, the other prophecy) about how when Naruto and Sasuke fight they're going to die!

Yes you could go and say "Well it's a metaphorical death." And you may be right. I personally have a hard time believing that considering the severity of the tone in which the toad and Naruto were speaking when they brought up this very topic.

If you don't like accepting Naruto canon, fine, you don't have to like or accept the Naruto canon. But if you wanna do something about it and not be a complainer there's only one thing you can do.

 

Become a Fanfiction writer!

 

That's all you have to do and honestly that's all you can do because the sad fact is it's basically impossible for any of us, the masses, to change anything in the current cannon. No don't take this wrong, it's not necessarily a bad thing. There's this one Harry Potter fan fiction that so popular it's even got its own wiki page on the Harry Potter wiki. Rather than focusing on what we can't change let us focus on what we can change, instead of focusing on Canon pointlessly let us focus on what it is to write a good story even if it isn't canon. Because ultimately that's all we can do. That's all we'll ever be able to do and we just have to accept that, no matter how much we hate it.

[Toby]

^yeah that's why I write fanfiction

and then when people tell me I have no right to complain because people don't like hearing about my negative criticisms about a series that already ended, I think "But I like reading people's complaints about naruto, it actually inspires me!"  -basically-

Edited by Toby, 07 October 2015 - 01:27 AM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Exactly. Madara might as well be alive at this point and Naruto is basically just living in a dream world. It would make sense seeing how everything just magically fixed itself without Naruto having to do anything. The whole ending reeks of "anti-climatic." We can;t even say "If Kishimoto endorsed or made it..." because then Road to Ninja would be considered canon and noone wants to admit that one.
So like Marvel and DC, Naruto is written in several universe.
You have the original universe also known as "Earth-1" which is Chapters 1 - 698.
You then have the Studio Perriot universe which is the anime, chapters 699-700, Naruto the Last, Naruto Gaiden, and Bolt the movie. Several interviews showcase that Kishimoto didn't plan this at all at most he just "contributed" to the universe. He was basically the add on like how Toriyama was to Dragonball GT. Didn't write it, but provided drawings and stuff. (People would argue Bolt the movie, but then I would argue that the plot of Naruto and Sasuke fighting a new threat together was the plan and not the fact that Bolt is in it or any of the other crap.)
and then you have the Road to Universe which is an AU, but still canon because it exists parallel. (Sad that there was supposed to be a NS scene in it at the end, but they took it out.)
You could also bring in the movies, but like Dragonball, they are what if scenarios.

An NS scene? Can I see it?

[starlitestarbrite]

it would be nice if whenever theres an NS cut scene, or ANYTHING it was posted here...you know at NARUSAKU.com...where NS supporters are.

[TheFirstEvil100]

it would be nice if whenever theres an NS cut scene, or ANYTHING it was posted here...you know at NARUSAKU.com...where NS supporters are.

true but its finding them all.

[griff142]

I consider everything up to 692 canon because everything after it ducks and goes against everything the Manga stood for. Man after almost a year it still hurts. I can't talk to anybody else about it since they believe Hinata was actually the heroine so I just agree to disagree.