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Anime studios showing bias is becoming a problem


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#1 Moon_Girl

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 11:38 PM

I wasn't sure if this was the right area to post this. (If not, please move it to the right spot)

But it seems Naruto isn't the only anime to suffer from an anime studio's bias towards a certain character.
I browse tumblr a lot and the anti-ending group is still going strong. But what I found interesting was this.
It focuses on Naruto half-way through, but the resemblance is shocking. Not to mention this is a trend growing that is super disrespectful towards authors/manga artists.

The tragedy that fell upon Naruto could happen to almost any series.  :confused: I don't know about the rest of you, but this really upsets me. I don't know if I can trust anime studios to give us a faithful and true animated adaptation of an author/manga artist's original work. It's disgusting.

Edit: Bail o' Lies has the right idea. 
Here's the example pictures:

Author/Manga Artist's original work


Anime Studio's Version


And what was written:

OP


Person Responding


Edited by Moon_Girl, 23 June 2017 - 12:51 AM.

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#2 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:15 AM

....So they turned a girl that had a flat chest into...how big are those? Well I'll read through in case the tumbler post gets deleted:

 

First person

 

"So this is really my top gripe about anime at the moment, so succinctly summed up by an episode in the show Shirobako. So many times you will see a decent character “moe-ified”, that is, given a heavily amplified kawaii/tsundere/kuudere/nadeshiko/whatever type of personality, and then given awkward proportions in order to fanservice the audience. Cuteness and male-gazeworthy proportions trump everything else. Do the folks in that industry not realize just how derivative it all is when female characters in every show start looking the same?
 
Last year world famous director Hayao Miyazaki gave an interview in which he said that the anime industry was declining in quality due to it being full of otaku who didn’t observe real people. He also said that the content creators entrenched themselves in the tropes they were used to instead of observing real people. I happen to agree with him. It’s becoming more and more amplified as the characters get less and less relatable. Everyone seems like a carbon copy of each other. And women are represented worse than ever in a lot of these shows, which is highly disappointing. In a lot of ways, with a few exceptions like Fullmetal Alchemist, women in 90s anime were treated far better than their contemporary counterparts. They were far more realistic. Watch an anime like Blue Seed and then compare it to any anime that’s on air today and the difference is noticable.
 
A new concern of mine that I’m noticing is starting to creep into modern anime more and more is production teams re-interpreting characters and relationships from the original work and showing favoratism in certain areas while bashing others. For example, I just finished watching The Devil is a Part-Timer and I found the Emilia character really interesting. When I did some research into the series, I discovered that the anime director of the series liked another moe female character named Chiho more, so he played Chiho up in the anime and put down Emilia by purposly exaggerated Emilia’s negative qualities. Chiho was featured prominantly throughout the show and was pretty much exclusively featured in the ending credits. I didn’t mind Chiho as a character but I wasn’t intrigued at all by her like I was with Emilia. The director cranked Emilia’s tsundere-ness up to 11 in order to make her less appealing, and although Emilia a main character in the light novels, she was more or less demoted down to an extra in the anime. If you read the translated light novels of The Devil is a Part-Timer, it becomes apparent that Emilia is a lot more subdued and far more likable. She’s still a tsundere but she’s not her anime counterpart. It’s stuff like this that annoys me. When character bias creeps in the story loses. And I’m seeing it a lot more than I used to in anime, which is so disappointing because it means you’re not getting a good adaptation of the source material. I’m not saying that anime has to be 100% true to the source material but I am asking that today’s content creators try to keep their personal biases out of the story. It hurts the message when it becomes super apparent that the storytellers don’t like certain characters or a certain pairings.
 
I love anime, but lately I have found myself becoming increasingly frustrated with it. After awhile I get bored seeing the exact same tropes played out again and again ad nauseum across the different genres. They need to shake it up and stop pandering to the lowest common denominator. This is what makes series like Attack on Titan and Fullmetal Alchemist so captivating; in the anime world they’re very unique and the characters are far more multidminensional and realistic.
 
“A new concern of mine that I’m noticing is starting to creep into modern anime more and more is production teams re-interpreting characters and relationships from the original work and showing favoritism in certain areas while bashing others.”
 
Response by another talking about Naruto
 
 
"…It’s literally the exact same events!
 
From characters being “moe-fied” in sexist animated renditions and the mention of fan-service, to remarks on studios’ [character & ship] bias influencing the plot, and the increasingly disgusting (mis)representation of women in more recent anime – it’s all a replica of what is wrong with Studio Pierrot, Hinata and NaruHina.
 
I think I’ve said before that, as a kid, I disliked Sakura. But as soon as I started the manga, she became my favourite character… The change and persuasion of Pierrot is that strong! I’m thankful that the timescale between watching the anime and experiencing Kishi’s canon work was less than a year apart for me, so I wasn’t as heavily brainwashed into the bandwagoning hatred that SP pioneered as much as the rest of this (delusional-ass) fandom.
 
Btw, there’s a reason that Fullmetal Alchemist is so highly praised when it comes to the handling of its characters, relationships and overall story – because it’s a shonen written by a woman!
⚠️ Side Note: “…featured prominently throughout the show…” ⚠️
 
The image linked here was one of countless examples that I could have used (as they all were, really). It conveyed how a mere few pages worth of canon was diluted quite heavily with filler in the anime. SP fabricated a ‘Hinata VS Pain’ “fight” that never happened in the manga, in addition to prolonging her confession and adding fake flashbacks.
↳ There is no battle in the original – there are two small panels of her running at him and failing to land an attack, before getting knocked out cold in one hit… The only flashbacks in the original were three small panels: two depicting her hiding behind a tree – having given up (and supposedly crying) in one and stalking Naruto in another – with the remaining square’s dialogue stating that seeing Naruto’s smile (from afar) saved her. I mean, the comparison of Kishimoto’s volume cover and Pierrot’s DVD cover of the same event says it all, am I right?
*Remember that this is the most considerable reason behind where her (canonically inaccurate) power hype formulated, as well as the scene that saw her wankers skyrocket in their numbers.
 
I could just as well have linked the entire Naruto episode list here, because Hinata was a side (practically ‘background’) character in canon – appearing in less than 50 pages out of approximately 12,500(+) – yet featured overwhelmingly in fillers, even from the first episode of the original series. Seriously, the entire final arc of the 15-year-long show was dedicated exclusively to her!
 
“[it’s] so disappointing because it means you’re not getting a good adaptation of the source material…I am asking that today’s content creators try to keep their personal bias out of the story. It hurts the message when it becomes super apparent that the storytellers don’t like certain characters or a certain pairings.”
 
Honestly, thanks to SP and the type of anime material that OP has mentioned, I’m starting to find anime intolerable… I only really enjoy reading manga now. SP’s tactics (as explained above, since they happen to completely parallel another series) have made me sceptical and kind of hateful toward any animated renditions, to the point that I can’t watch a series without having read the source material first; to only know of canon and not be freakin’ brainwashed. Like, how kitten is that? "

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 June 2017 - 12:22 AM.


#3 Wyle23

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 01:27 AM

Wow. Character goes from lookin' cool and otherwise aight to fat neck-beard fap material. :goodjob:,  anime studio! Just about R34'd the guy's character.



#4 Phantom_999

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 01:46 PM

I wasn't sure if this was the right area to post this. (If not, please move it to the right spot)

But it seems Naruto isn't the only anime to suffer from an anime studio's bias towards a certain character.
I browse tumblr a lot and the anti-ending group is still going strong. But what I found interesting was this.
It focuses on Naruto half-way through, but the resemblance is shocking. Not to mention this is a trend growing that is super disrespectful towards authors/manga artists.

The tragedy that fell upon Naruto could happen to almost any series.  :confused: I don't know about the rest of you, but this really upsets me. I don't know if I can trust anime studios to give us a faithful and true animated adaptation of an author/manga artist's original work. It's disgusting.

Edit: Bail o' Lies has the right idea. 
Here's the example pictures:

Author/Manga Artist's original work


Anime Studio's Version


And what was written:

OP


Person Responding

 

What anime is that by the way?


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#5 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 06:37 PM

 

What anime is that by the way?

Devil got a part time job or something like that. https://en.wikipedia...Is_a_Part-Timer! Is what the first poster is complaining about in their post. But I don't know who that is in the picture cause chiho has a different hair color.

 

Literally looks up: *she was a racer but she raced in a swimsuit for some reason. anime.* That from episode 23 of Shirobako...I still can't find that girl though.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 26 June 2017 - 06:43 PM.


#6 Derock

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 09:12 PM

What in the world? Now the studios are having field days with females? It like they hired the hentai/otaku animators. The f is going on in Japanese animation? :mad:

 

The girl from the example went from a nice looking design to a damn WTF waifu with big eyes and huge knockers. But its not only anime, video games are getting the same treatment too.


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What's Happening with the Naruto series as of now!


#7 Phantom_999

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:46 PM

Devil got a part time job or something like that. https://en.wikipedia...Is_a_Part-Timer! Is what the first poster is complaining about in their post. But I don't know who that is in the picture cause chiho has a different hair color.

 

Literally looks up: *she was a racer but she raced in a swimsuit for some reason. anime.* That from episode 23 of Shirobako...I still can't find that girl though.

 

What's the name of the character?


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#8 Young Kubrick

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 10:03 AM

Here's my theory on all this: what I've noticed is that some anime fans Americans and Westerners in particular from what I've seen favour these exact things. They seem to operate on literally the most basic sense. If you have stuff like this in a series they will sing its praises. It's like that's all they want. I've seen this all too much in the fandom so my idea is that maybe studios are trying to appeal to this lower common denominator especially in the West. And the fans excuse this just saying "it's escapism" in other words you don't need a good story realistically written characters that even in scenarios that could not logically happen behave in a way that feels real and a clear sense of direction so it's ok to make crap

 

I can't say objectively that this is the truth but from what I have seen amongst the fandom this is the only logical explanation I can come up with


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#9 T XD

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 10:24 PM

I've seen the same thing in some other anime. It seems there are animators / writers / directors who are playing favorites with the characters that is damaging the story, especially female characters, or alter some canon details in the plot to replace it with filler. Not all the studios though.

 

As for Studio Pierrot, they are known now to have some people who play favoritism and play with canon material. In Naruto, apart from playing with canon material, favoritism started to show significantly after one-third through of Part 2.

 


What's the name of the character?

I've searched all characters listed, but this character isn't among them. Maybe she's a filler character.


Edited by T XD, 08 August 2017 - 10:28 PM.


#10 Phantom_999

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 10:31 PM

Yeah but they had BETTER not show any negative Bias towards Noelle. :hm: I see death flags already with the way they draw her


Edited by Phantom_999, 22 August 2017 - 10:31 PM.

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#11 Kagomaru

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 04:45 AM

Devil got a part time job or something like that. https://en.wikipedia...Is_a_Part-Timer! Is what the first poster is complaining about in their post. But I don't know who that is in the picture cause chiho has a different hair color.

Of course, in the case of Devil is a Part-Timer!, this tactic backfired completely because most fans of the anime  version seem to hate Chiho from my experience in the fandom while they find Emilia a far more compelling character and enjoy her complicated relationship with Maou.  But I had no idea that Naoto Hosoda (the director of the anime) harbored such biases. I guess that also explains why Maou and Emi's adopted 'daughter' Alas=Ramus never appeared in the anime since she helps to further develop Maou and Emi's relationship in the novels.

 

As for Noelle, given her popularity in Japan and her importance to the plot,  I'm not too worried about her. Pierrot literally can't afford another Tokyo Ghoul incident of manipulating or altering canon since their cashcow, Boruto, is drying up fast.


Edited by Kagomaru, 23 August 2017 - 05:20 AM.

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#12 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:17 AM

Of course, in the case of Devil is a Part-Timer!, this tactic backfired completely because most fans of the anime  version seem to hate Chiho from my experience in the fandom while they find Emilia a far more compelling character and enjoy her complicated relationship with Maou.  But I had no idea that Naoto Hosoda (the director of the anime) harbored such biases. I guess that also explains why Maou and Emi's adopted 'daughter' Alas=Ramus never appeared in the anime since she helps to further develop Maou and Emi's relationship in the novels.

 

As for Noelle, given her popularity in Japan and her importance to the plot,  I'm not too worried about her. Pierrot literally can't afford another Tokyo Ghoul incident of manipulating or altering canon since their cashcow, Boruto, is drying up fast.

I haven't watched that much of that anime but even from what I saw Chiho comes off as very bland, while Emilia came off as far more interesting.

 

I don't think they can afford it. Tokyo Ghoul happened before the fall of Naruto. So they were arrogant enough to think that they could do what ever they wanted, and it wouldn't matter because the company always has Naruto to fall back on. This lead to the mangaka from what I understand restarting/made a sequel/did a time skip (or something like that) his manga so they could try again and they still kittened up. Which has badly damaged Toyko Ghoul ability to expand without an anime. If SP kittens up Black Clover then after that, the collapse of Naruto, the failure to launch that was Boruto, Bleach, and their screw ups with Toyko Ghoul; no matter how strong their relationship Shueisha is, they not going to trust them with anymore shounen battle manga. Also does Noelle even have any rivals that SP can try to use to take her place? What the nun? Maybe a cousin? That dancer?

 

So SP can't afford it, and thankfully they don't have really anyone to replace her...unless they do something like "the clone" and make their own girl they want to be the heroine and the love interest. But they would be complete morons to do that.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 August 2017 - 10:31 AM.


#13 Saku-chan

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 03:00 AM

While I can't stand hipsterism, I feel like it might be better to disconnect with series once they become popular. I don't want to deal with such a disappointment from something that's supposed to be entertaining.

 

This isn't totally related, but I was thinking about how there's not really much mainstream yet interesting plot type anime anymore and I got sad. I was watching Nana and I couldn't remember the last time something so interesting was released. I know that's apples and pears since it's josei, but oh well. How's BNHA on the moefication front? I want a new shounen manga to read and I don't want it to disappoint me. lol


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#14 Moon_Girl

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:30 PM

While I can't stand hipsterism, I feel like it might be better to disconnect with series once they become popular. I don't want to deal with such a disappointment from something that's supposed to be entertaining.

 

This isn't totally related, but I was thinking about how there's not really much mainstream yet interesting plot type anime anymore and I got sad.

 

Yeah, I'm starting to feel like mainstream anime is a death sentence unless there's somehow great control over it.


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#15 Young Kubrick

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:50 AM

 

Yeah, I'm starting to feel like mainstream anime is a death sentence unless there's somehow great control over it.

 

Which kind of goes into what I'm saying. That the mainstream anime that get the most attention are the ones that cater to people's crude and base senses. Fanservice, unrealistic characters that can act like a total perv and/or jerk with little to no consequence, and fight scenes that although may be intense well-choreographed and epic are between characters that are written so mediocre that we have no investment in them at all so we don't care, all take precedence over story and character development

 

Again my hypothesis that it's the studios doing this to cater to Western audiences is just that: a hypothesis that I can't exactly prove. After all a lot of times Japanese creators and studios well don't exactly have American fans at the top of their priorities. Like seriously how many games have come out over there but have never been brought over here? But as anime is becoming less of a niche and more commonplace in America, and American film studios have even taken their stab at making movies based off of anime series. Movies that are not too bad I might add. (Course I also have to add that said movies are decent on their own but in terms of being adaptations they fail on so many levels and oh yeah white people...but I digress). So the idea that maybe they're looking to appeal to this crowd of American fans who don't exactly have the highest of tastes would just make sense from a business perspective

 

Like I said before I can't say this is a fact but this is the only logical conclusion I can come up with


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#16 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:15 AM

 

Which kind of goes into what I'm saying. That the mainstream anime that get the most attention are the ones that cater to people's crude and base senses. Fanservice, unrealistic characters that can act like a total perv and/or jerk with little to no consequence, and fight scenes that although may be intense well-choreographed and epic are between characters that are written so mediocre that we have no investment in them at all so we don't care, all take precedence over story and character development

 

Again my hypothesis that it's the studios doing this to cater to Western audiences is just that: a hypothesis that I can't exactly prove. After all a lot of times Japanese creators and studios well don't exactly have American fans at the top of their priorities. Like seriously how many games have come out over there but have never been brought over here? But as anime is becoming less of a niche and more commonplace in America, and American film studios have even taken their stab at making movies based off of anime series. Movies that are not too bad I might add. (Course I also have to add that said movies are decent on their own but in terms of being adaptations they fail on so many levels and oh yeah white people...but I digress). So the idea that maybe they're looking to appeal to this crowd of American fans who don't exactly have the highest of tastes would just make sense from a business perspective

 

Like I said before I can't say this is a fact but this is the only logical conclusion I can come up with

The thing is most Japanese products are Japanese centric. They only send out stuff internationally if they know/hope its a success. Either it a series that made it big from one big success that they then keep sending out in hopes the international fanbase will love it as well and make them more money, or they think it good enough that they think that if they sell it internationally they will then be able to make the product like the first group eventually. Naruto's ending was a rare case where they decided to focus on the international fanbase over their Japanese one, but that was because they had always seen Naruto as more of a International money maker then a Japanese one, and there were sympathetic ears that worked in those companies that wanted Hinata to win..


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 27 November 2017 - 04:35 AM.


#17 Analyzer

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:46 PM

 Naruto's ending was a rare case where they decided to focus on the international fanbase over their Japanese one, but that was because they had always seen Naruto as more of a International money maker then a Japanese one, and there were sympathetic ears that worked in those companies that wanted Hinata to win..

 

Source?

 

There is zero evidence of this, and plenty of evidence that this is what Kishimoto wanted to do because it worked with his narrative flow.

 

Side note: She's also not a moe character. 

 

But to bring things back to the OP:

 

There is fan-service used, yes, and it's consistent through anime in general. The things and changes they do are probably catered to its audience. In general the pandering can work or be very annoying. It's a flaw of Anime, I think. 

 

Sakura gets more attention than most credit her for, in the latest Boruto anime episode her fight with Shin was (awesomely) extended. 

 

So in defense of SP, and a point against them, they get characters wrong, a lot of them, and just...do awful things with them sometimes, Hinata too. (Team 8 IMO holds one of the worst filler episodes ever during the second chuunin exams arc, with some of the worst villains SP has ever created). There are biases for pairings too, all of them are played up, NS too. 

 

I think we also need to separate the animators from the story-board people. I have empathy for the former. The latter? Not so much.


Edited by Analyzer, 07 September 2017 - 05:51 PM.


#18 Moon_Girl

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 03:15 AM

 

Source?

 

There is zero evidence of this, and plenty of evidence that this is what Kishimoto wanted to do because it worked with his narrative flow.

 

Side note: She's also not a moe character. 

 

"Moe is a Japanese term used in connection with manga or anime to describe something precious, usually (but not always) the ideal of youthful and innocent femininity. Written with the kanji for "to bud or sprout" (萌), the concept covers a range of ideal behaviour for youthful female characters in manga or anime." -Anime News Network

"
Moe (萌え, pronounced [mo.e] (11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png is a Japanese slang loanword that refers to feelings of strong affection mainly towards characters in anime, manga, and video games. Moe, however, has also gained usage to refer to feelings of affection towards any subject." -Wikipedia

Yeah. Hinata fits the 'moe' stereotype. 

Also a lot of attention was put onto the Western fandom. I believe Kishimoto was shown a video by a huge NH fan and that was mentioned in an interview. Said NH fan even made a video about it. Plus, what part of the world worships Hinata like some sort of goddess? The western fandom. 
When the movie "The Last" came out, the Japanese fandom bashed her to high heaven. There were several anti-Hinata and anti-Naruhina forums on 2ch. The Last is rated the lowest rated Naruto movie ever and it would have rated even lower than it had if it weren't for the fake positive reviews. This was on a Japanese yahoo review site.
There's plenty of proof of this. You just need to go check it out. Most of us witnessed this happening while it was happening anyways.

To top it all off, compare Kishimoto's "You say Hinata, Hinata, Hinata, I say she's not Hinata" (Sakura, whom he said was the heroine) interview before the end of the manga, to his current interviews.

There is overwhelming evidence that the series was drastically changed by corporate meddling. At this point, it's not a matter of whether this is 'true' or 'false'. It's a matter of being in denial or accepting it. The sky is blue. Are you going to accept that or say "NO IT'S NOT"?


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#19 Analyzer

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:59 PM

 

"Moe is a Japanese term used in connection with manga or anime to describe something precious, usually (but not always) the ideal of youthful and innocent femininity. Written with the kanji for "to bud or sprout" (萌), the concept covers a range of ideal behaviour for youthful female characters in manga or anime." -Anime News Network

"
Moe (萌え, pronounced [mo.e] (11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png is a Japanese slang loanword that refers to feelings of strong affection mainly towards characters in anime, manga, and video games. Moe, however, has also gained usage to refer to feelings of affection towards any subject." -Wikipedia

Yeah. Hinata fits the 'moe' stereotype. 

 

Moe is an archetype Hinata does not fill, because her shyness, self-esteem issues, and the like are never used in a sort of romanticized way; they’re never used to invoke this sort of protective draw to Hinata. Never. 

 

 

 

Also a lot of attention was put onto the Western fandom. I believe Kishimoto was shown a video by a huge NH fan and that was mentioned in an interview. Said NH fan even made a video about it. Plus, what part of the world worships Hinata like some sort of goddess? The western fandom. 
When the movie "The Last" came out, the Japanese fandom bashed her to high heaven. There were several anti-Hinata and anti-Naruhina forums on 2ch. The Last is rated the lowest rated Naruto movie ever and it would have rated even lower than it had if it weren't for the fake positive reviews. This was on a Japanese yahoo review site.
There's plenty of proof of this. You just need to go check it out. Most of us witnessed this happening while it was happening anyways.

To top it all off, compare Kishimoto's "You say Hinata, Hinata, Hinata, I say she's not Hinata" (Sakura, whom he said was the heroine) interview before the end of the manga, to his current interviews.

There is overwhelming evidence that the series was drastically changed by corporate meddling. At this point, it's not a matter of whether this is 'true' or 'false'. It's a matter of being in denial or accepting it. The sky is blue. Are you going to accept that or say "NO IT'S NOT"?

 

The Japanese Fandom also rated the Last Movie to be critically acclaimed. That we are using Yahoo Japan as a serious movie review site, when it doesn't serve that function is faulty, particularly, that there are posts here, literally, saying that they would rate the movie poorly, on this site. Literal confessions of wanting to do so. Fake Negative Reviews. Yet we are claiming fake positive ones made it worse.

 

The Last did well, very well, it sold more than any of it's predecessors, and I don't get why we push a narrative that suggest otherwise, and let our hate turn it into this monster that it's really not.

 

There's overwhelming evidence that the end was as Kishimoto attended, simply,  because he said so. The sky matches with his presentation. I have accepted Kishimoto's choices, respected them even. I no longer am in denial about things. I do not understand why some continue to do so. 


Edited by Analyzer, 12 September 2017 - 07:03 PM.


#20 RulesofNature

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 04:26 AM

A big problem is the anime industry is over-saturated. In the old days, anime was more focused on selling toys or promoting the source material. OVAs were a thing because either there wasn't enough interest in the thing justify a full TV series, or there was content that couldn't be shown on TV. This is before anime began airing late at night to niche otaku markets. I've seen Sunrise staff say that the shift began when Evangelion showed the industry that the show itself could be a major product. Forget the toys or the manga, they could make major bank just selling the show itself. This leads to a rise of animated programming and importance being placed on video sales.

 

Now, there's too much anime being made. This has lead to more focus-tested releases, if these shows aren't going to appeal to normal people then they have to make sure to catch otaku's attention. If someone sells well it sets a trend that everyone and their uncle follows. Like Hollywood and AAA gaming, they are less likely to take risks now because there's less to fall back on if the show itself doesn't work out.


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