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Boruto: Naruto Next Generation Anime Discusion

Naruto Boruto anime Next Generation Studio Pierriot

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#601 Gravenimage

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 11:47 AM

Yeah but unfortunately the problem was the anime team, they were the ones that painted a different picture.

They were the ones that exaggerated Hinata's moments from the manga and gave her so many more in the fillers, and her fans took that and in return exaggerated them even more.

Honestly I wish SP never got their hands on Naruto.

 

^For years I've asked myself why does it have to be studio Pierot to have Naruto's right's? When there are so many studios way better, not to mention they're not biased and obsessed with characters who are completely not important to the story. I could have imagine Naruto if it's Bones, Gonzo, White Fox any other studio asides from Pierot who got their hands on the rights of Naruto. 


Edited by Gravenimage, 11 September 2017 - 12:36 PM.

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#602 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 11:51 AM

There are many many that would have done it better than SP we all know what SP do after all below are the list of other anime studios that would have done Naruto better.
 
toei animation
 
studio ghibli
 
the studio that does Pokemon
 
They are two I know of the most I know that there is many more out there but we know that all would have do it better and not have tones of fillers all on one girl. And if they did have fillers then it would either be about Naruto Sakura or Sasuke and just them.

Toei would be good given how super has been going. And have funamation dub naruto it have better voices and the plus of Chris Sabat would be awesome. Plus the only filler hinata had any real point in was the bug hunt arc the others she did nothing and when with Naruto and kiba the always failed for obvious reasons. I liked the filler arcs where naruto was with guys team cause he works better with them, proving guy is the better teacher than kakashi, Asuma and kunreai.

Edited by VanitasDS76491, 11 September 2017 - 11:54 AM.


#603 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 07:28 PM

^For years I've asked myself why does it have to be studio Pierot to have Naruto's right's? When there are so many studios way better, not to mention they're not biased and obsessed with characters who are completely not important to the story. I could have imagine Naruto if it's Bones, Gonzo, White Fox any other studio asides from Pierot who got their hands on the rights of Naruto. 

  When Naruto had manage to pass the hurdle of not getting cancel by it first couple chapters, and they saw it as having potential. Shueisha started planning on having an anime to maximize profits; like they do with all their manga that survive early cancellation. So they went around to anime companies seeing which one wanted to buy the right to product the Naruto anime. SP was the one that bought it. They are close with Shueisha. They did shows for them before like Yu Yu hakusho. So they were probably on the of the first studios that they asked. Now they have the right to product the Naruto anime and (apparently) their spin offs.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 11 September 2017 - 08:06 PM.


#604 Gravenimage

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 01:05 AM

  When Naruto had manage to pass the hurdle of not getting cancel by it first couple chapters, and they saw it as having potential. Shueisha started planning on having an anime to maximize profits; like they do with all their manga that survive early cancellation. So they went around to anime companies seeing which one wanted to buy the right to product the Naruto anime. SP was the one that bought it. They are close with Shueisha. They did shows for them before like Yu Yu hakusho. So they were probably on the of the first studios that they asked. Now they have the right to product the Naruto anime and (apparently) their spin offs.

 

I wonder if they're earning the same profit with Boruto as they did with Naruto.


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#605 Derock

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 01:37 AM

  When Naruto had manage to pass the hurdle of not getting cancel by it first couple chapters, and they saw it as having potential. Shueisha started planning on having an anime to maximize profits; like they do with all their manga that survive early cancellation. So they went around to anime companies seeing which one wanted to buy the right to product the Naruto anime. SP was the one that bought it. They are close with Shueisha. They did shows for them before like Yu Yu hakusho. So they were probably on the of the first studios that they asked. Now they have the right to product the Naruto anime and (apparently) their spin offs.

 

I thought Masashi said in an old interview that he personally picked Studio Pierrot because they had done an anime movie he liked.


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#606 LuckyChi7

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:43 AM

 

I thought Masashi said in an old interview that he personally picked Studio Pierrot because they had done an anime movie he liked.

 

 

That news to me... not sure if that's true, but if it is I'm curious which movie it was. 


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#607 Derock

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:48 AM

 

 

That news to me... not sure if that's true, but if it is I'm curious which movie it was. 

 

I think its a movie or a series. Can't remember what it is but I definitely remembered that that was his decision alone in one of the old interviews.


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#608 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:08 AM

I thought Masashi said in an old interview that he personally picked Studio Pierrot because they had done an anime movie he liked.

Huh, did not know that, thank you for telling me. I just said what is probably the standard for when they want one of their manga to get an anime adaptation. Huh, so he "chose the form of his destroyer," since they were pushing for more hinata relevance since the first episode.

 

I wonder if they're earning the same profit with Boruto as they did with Naruto.

Doubtful.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 12 September 2017 - 04:08 AM.


#609 The Doctor forever

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 01:02 PM

 

I thought Masashi said in an old interview that he personally picked Studio Pierrot because they had done an anime movie he liked.

If so why not toei animation or studio ghibli as both are well more known, true with the latter they do films but Masashi was a fan of DB so why not have the same people who done DB, I mean look how many fillers DB did just one the Garlic Jr Saga the rest just made fights longer or had more training.

 

Its why I wish that Toei did Naruto as they would not have done what SP did.



#610 Nostradamus

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:42 PM

 

I think its a movie or a series. Can't remember what it is but I definitely remembered that that was his decision alone in one of the old interviews.

So even though this ending wasn't his decision, in the end it's still his fault. Fantastic.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#611 Derock

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:59 PM

So even though this ending wasn't his decision, in the end it's still his fault. Fantastic.

 

Well, technically it isn't his fault for choosing the studio. I'm not sure if the Japanese follow the same exact structure of film industry, as in people come and go because you can't expect the same exact people working on so many different projects at the same time (but then again, we're talking about Japan aka wanna be perfect in EVERYTHING until dying from overwork)


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#612 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:20 AM

Check this out about how anime openings and ending are selected.



#613 BlackBird19

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:30 AM

 

The ending was Kishimoto's intention however, and the anime studio has nothing to do with the manga.

 

Respectfully disagree. Remember, The Last was released exactly one month after chapter 700. Meaning, the movie's script (a script Kishimoto did not write) and production were greenlit well before the manga's end. The middle of 2013 appears to be most probable of when the final decision was made. The new era project was also greenlit around the same time when you consider it was advertised by Shueisha along with the release of the final chapter. Oh, and this is very important; Naruto is a manga and franchise, not a novel or series of novels. More people have more say than just the author in this type of publishing.

 

Now moving forward, chapter 572 shows the bijuu alluding to the possibility of Naruto being the sage's reincarnation due to his treatment of them and affinity to all of their combined chakra. However, a year later he is the spiritual reincarnation of one of the sage's sons. While subtle, it is a significant change in the long run.

 

Kaguya herself is a highly specific indicator that plans were changed at the end. Even you have noted how she lacked any real foreshadowing. That's because she most likely had never been planned. Not until the script for the Last called for the Hyuuga clan and their byakugan, the Otsutsuki clan and Hinata herself to be of greater importance. It's why Kaguya and her family suddenly played a bigger role in the final chapters, seemingly out of nowhere. They wanted better continuity from the manga to the movie that would not have been there without the change of direction. A change in direction that included the pairings. 

 

From this point on we get Neji's death. Hinata's speech to Naruto to alleviate his despair.  A chapter named "A True Ending" which depicts at it's end the proverbial deaths of Naruto and Sasuke and the women at their sides in that moment. Coupled with a severe lack of on panel affection between the canon pairings, even after their confirmation, points to a very reasonable possibility that the ending really wasn't Kishimoto's original intention. It was an ending solely done for the continuation of the franchise.

 

I now leave you to disregard this very real logic as a simple conspiracy theory. Later.  



#614 sushi.

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:24 PM

man do you even know what a conspiracy theory is??


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#615 BlackShirtGuy

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:45 PM

But moving away from speculation, we have Kishimoto saying he planned the Sasuke vs. Naruto fight, and planned the end game pairings. That we can trace development for them makes sense. I'm not sure why holding hands doesn't count as on panel affection, but considering Kishimoto's conservativeness, we can more than understand the lack of it, or at least what you are calling "on panel affection". Are we also ignoring 699? But considering no other pairing really had any development pointing to 700 in the 600s, or "on panel affection", I'm not sure where we are getting at. 

 

Oh really now? and what is this thing right here then?
thenk_you.jpg
(This is also in the same manga you said holding hands is such a big deal btw, just in case you didn't know)
 

I'm not gonna bother with the rest, it's the same stuff all day, everyday with you, this was just to let you know that if you make such a big deal of hand-holding I don't know how you, who refer yourself as a NS fan, can write all that, hypocrite much, Analyzer?


Edited by BlackShirtGuy, 13 September 2017 - 02:47 PM.

“There are many types of monsters in this world, monsters who will not show themselves and who cause trouble. Monsters who abduct children, monsters who devour dreams, monsters who suck blood, and, monsters who always tell lies. Lying monsters are a real nuisance, they are much more cunning than other monsters. They pose as humans, even though they have no understanding of the human heart. They eat, even though they've never experienced hunger. They study even though the have no interest in academics. They seek friendship even though they do not know how to love. If I were to encounter such a monster, I would likely be eaten by it, because in truth, I am that monster.”   -L. Lawliet

 

#616 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:19 PM

We live in a world where we go, "It's my opinion that it's a fact..."



#617 Nostradamus

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:39 PM

We live in a world where we go, "It's my opinion that it's a fact..."

I'm right everyone else is wrong. /s


Edited by Nostradamus, 13 September 2017 - 02:39 PM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#618 BlackBird19

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:52 PM

Kishimoto did not write the last. But he did superivse and edit the script, so much so that he makes a comment that he was worried he was frustrating the writers. He wanted them to get it right.

 

The Last was released a month after the last chapter, yes. 

 

Chapter 572 does not all in all imply that Naruto is the reincarnation of the Sage of Six Paths necessarily. Equal case simply is that this is the person that would unite them on that day as the old man spoke of would come. But going with this, that he is the son isn't even a significant change, as it points to a connection that he is a descendant and thus shares similar traits, to which the former thoughts of the Jinchuuriki make more sense, as they share relation.

 

Kaguya did suffer from poor foreshadowing. While there is no source to support this theorymaking, we could speculate that she was a device meant to help bridge things, but what occurs really is that later material works to help develop and explain Kaguya more into things. In other words, she functions fine within the material, bar the poor foreshadowing. Her family though? The Sage himself is mentioned in 572. It's merely Kaguya herself that lacks the foreshadowing, and even then her Byakugan is not super played up, nor is Hamura really explored that much. 

 

It's quite common for hero stories to end as they do, by the way, a sort of pass on to the next generation. It passes the baton onto Boruto here, but whether or not this is explored is up to the author. Kishimoto does explore this a little, but he had no intention of really writing a sequel. See Bleach. See also Harry Potter. Bleach has no continuation I am aware of, and Harry Potter only years later did any sort of substantiation with its characters. These endings -allow- further exploration, should the desire be there, but this happy ending is not at all an uncommon frame for an end to this sort of hero's journey. To go further, of course we were going to conclude with a scene that Naruto ended up being Hokage. Considering the evidence at hand, it makes perfect sense that Shikamaru is his advisor, as that aspect was played up at the end, that his son is named after Neji, Hinata is his wife, etc. 

 

But moving away from speculation, we have Kishimoto saying he planned the Sasuke vs. Naruto fight, and planned the end game pairings. That we can trace development for them makes sense. I'm not sure why holding hands doesn't count as on panel affection, but considering Kishimoto's conservativeness, we can more than understand the lack of it, or at least what you are calling "on panel affection". Are we also ignoring 699? But considering no other pairing really had any development pointing to 700 in the 600s, or "on panel affection", I'm not sure where we are getting at. 

 

As for the two women part? Perhaps instead of making a shipping connection, as implied, we make a "These are both medics and if they declare them dead, they're dead". connection. Plus considering 615 and some of the stuff you mentioned happens -before- this, does this not hurt your case? If we are championing this chapter as "on plan", what about the stuff prior? Plus right after is the Sage of Six Path's revelation, so your argument weakens substantially after your 572 jump away. 

 

This is not to say 100% of the ending is as he imagined it from the start, we can only source the pairings and the Naruto/Sasuke fight as completely intended. 

 

To conclude, you -are- theorizing, and in points of the above where stated, so am I. The only things that are not a theory are that the Naruto/Sasuke fight was intended and so were the canon pairings, as they can be sourced. We can source that Kishimoto had more say over the Last than prior material, he red inked the script several times. It is by definition a conspiracy theory to point against sources, even with your "logical evidence". But your evidence only has a basis, a slight jump from a vague uncompleted thought to something confirmed later, which is not all that much of a difference, as I illustrated. I don't really buy into theories that state otherwise, simply because you have to point to a moment, and then twist and call things out as a lie, and then you start unveiling "corporation" meddling, and the like, and need so many variables to be true, that cannot be proved or can be disproved. This makes your foundation shaky. 

 

First off, no movie is greenlit without having an initial script of ideas already been written. That's a fact. Edits and rewrites can always be done during preproduction, well after that first draft of the script. Again, a script that Kishimoto did not write.

 

To be honest, I don't think you truly grasped what I was saying in my post all that well considering you went off in directions I hadn't even touched upon. Plus I had already stated that the decision was made by no later than mid 2013. Thus prompting 615 and all instances afterward, including giving a parting shot to NS. Also, it can be confusing at times reading your replies because you post question marks at very odd points. It's hard to tell whether you're actually asking a question. 

 

No matter, on to Kaguya and the Otsutsuki clan. I pointed them out because they had merely been utilized as storyboard to tell the history of the shinobi. They were never foreshadowed as playing an actual role in the current timeline. That just seemed to appear out of nowhere and again, needed to be explained outside of the original manga. Which is why logic dictates to me that something prompted them to make that change. 

 

Now I realize that because the end pairings match with your opinions you feel you are never in the wrong. But the writing does not support you to the level you believe it to. Case in point, you claim to have felt the same as us in terms of NS before going back to reread the manga to make better sense of the ending. You should know, your first read through will always be the one least biased and least subjective. Meaning, if you didn't see it before the end, then your knowing of the end game has warped your perspective and you're merely inferring that the canon pairings were always intended. You really don't know that for a fact.

 

Naruto vs Sasuke however, was something that was never in doubt because the writing actually supports the notion that it was supposed to happen. It's one of the few things the entire fandom truly agrees on.

 

Lastly, you need to understand that all those sources you lean on so heavily all come from one place. The publisher of Naruto, Shonen Jump and it's parent company Shueisha. Just about every piece of info we've ever received about Naruto has actually come from the publisher itself. All those interviews and anecdotes about the franchise were always published by the actual franchise's publisher. So forgive me if I find them to be less than 100% credible. You know, because of the whole conflict of interest thing.

 

And just to add on. InoxSai, ChojixKarui and all the children being the same age, is all the evidence I needed to know that this ending was done solely to continue the franchise. 


Edited by BlackBird19, 13 September 2017 - 03:05 PM.


#619 tricksie

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:27 PM

 

Respectfully disagree. Remember, The Last was released exactly one month after chapter 700. Meaning, the movie's script (a script Kishimoto did not write) and production were greenlit well before the manga's end. The middle of 2013 appears to be most probable of when the final decision was made. The new era project was also greenlit around the same time when you consider it was advertised by Shueisha along with the release of the final chapter. Oh, and this is very important; Naruto is a manga and franchise, not a novel or series of novels. More people have more say than just the author in this type of publishing.

 

...

 

From this point on we get Neji's death. Hinata's speech to Naruto to alleviate his despair.  A chapter named "A True Ending" which depicts at it's end the proverbial deaths of Naruto and Sasuke and the women at their sides in that moment. Coupled with a severe lack of on panel affection between the canon pairings, even after their confirmation, points to a very reasonable possibility that the ending really wasn't Kishimoto's original intention. It was an ending solely done for the continuation of the franchise.

You're right. Ultimately, we have no idea what the managerial structure for Naruto the Franchise is. But we do know it's a whole franchise, of which the manga is just one part. If Kishimoto has signed over rights to most of the items, but retained some limited editorial oversight, then he may be very removed from the direction of the rest of the franchise, past what he's contractually obligated to fulfill for the manga. 

 

For example, Kishimoto's contract may have allowed him to continue his job with the manga — writing illustrating and directing his artistic staff — as well as giving him free rein to do what ever he wanted. As long as he ended it with NH, and fulfills they're alotted time scheme to coincide with the movie, the live-action play, the novels, Boruto, and whatever else the New Era project can push out. 

 

This is not a conspiracy theory, it's business. And this hypothetical scenario above takes into account the whole franchise, not just the ending of the manga. 

 

We do know the franchise is continuing beyond the end of the manga, and we know that Kishimoto has stepped back his involvement in the series. Thus we know that Kishimoto has struck a deal to be compensated for his original concept, to retain some artistic and editorial rights in future endeavors, and to reap profits from the sales of past and future Naruto franchise ventures.

 

And we can take an educated guess that this deal was struck at some point before the end of the manga.

 

At this point, blaming Kishimoto for the NH ending is like blaming Walt Disney because you didn't like the way A Bug's Life turned out. He may have had very little choice in the matter. 

 

I agree that "The True Ending" is a very telling chapter title. To me, if Kishimoto was a creator with limited artistic control of his art, then a title would be an easy way to insert a bit of his own direction — his own thought on the matter — into a manga that he already knew was going to go a different direction and disappoint a huge section of his fans. An ending which would make him look like a liar after so many years building up NS. 

 

And for the record, I think 'The True End' was the ending he had planned, with Naruto and Sasuke going out in balance, with the clear support of Sakura and Karin, but never even being a fulfilled romance. Instead ending like Jiraiya's novel where the romance was left off-page. 

 

Kishimoto did not write the last. But he did superivse and edit the script, so much so that he makes a comment that he was worried he was frustrating the writers. He wanted them to get it right.

 

The Last was released a month after the last chapter, yes. 

Unfortunately, just because Kishimoto red-inks something does not mean he's heavily involved. It just means that he saw it, altered it and ultimately passed it back. We can't infer if Kishimoto was pleased with it or not. 

 

But all of the language of teamwork and Kishimoto's heavy involvement would be standard in presenting a future of Naruto to the general public. If Kishimoto came out and said,"Eh, it's okaaay...." then that undermines the movie/ending/Boruto franchise.  

 

And if Kishimoto's under contract to support the New Era stuff, then he will do that. 

 

Ultimately, my point is that aside that pointedly strange chapter title "The True End" I don't think there is anything to be gained by analyzing the manga. Or even Kishimoto's statements. Naruto is a business. A multi-tiered international franchise, with interests in everything from perfumes and plushies to fashion, books, and movies. Kishimoto is going to do what is good for business. 

 

Telling people it's going exactly as he planned, from the beginning? Yes. Absolutely. Even if it's a lie, and he knows it. He's not going to go against the direction that Naruto is taking.

 

While we like to think that Kishimoto is like the character he drew...he's not. The story is about a romantically high ideal. But Kishimoto is in the business of manga creation. Business. He's been at this a long long time. And he is always going to do what is good for his business. 

 

On a personal note, I think one day Kishimoto will give an interview, perhaps 20 years from now, and confirm that yes, he did intend for NS to happen. That the True End was what he had thought, years and years before when he was writing the Pain arc. But then he'll shrug and go didn't work out that way, and that *gasp* he didn't really care.

 

Because I think that by the end of the manga, he was just pissed that the shipping had overtaken the whole series. That's why he threw all the pairings up in the air, so that no one got what they wanted. Neither fans nor characters. (Well, excpet Shika, but he looks pretty miserable too.)

 

And last, after understanding Japanese culture a little better, and know that he's been writing this for f20 years, I honestly think that Kishimoto himself changed. And in the end, he wanted Naruto to have a traditional Japanese wife like Hinata. Very sweet, and very much focused on the family — something that is of large concern in Japanese society right now with the well-publicized downturn in population. Sakura was a role-breaker. As was Naruto originally. That's why they were both so perfect together. But in the end, neither of them broke out of their traditional roles. Naruto didn't usher in massive changes, instead returning to be a leader like his father. And Sakura returned to become a housewife, with no word of a career outside of housekeeping.

 

The message to me was clear: In the end of 20 years of writing the manga — going from a 20yo college student/manga contest winner to a 40yo family man and engine behind a multi-million dollar business — Kishimoto had changed his mind on what was important for these two main characters. Instead of radically changing their world, they went home to have families and uphold traditional Japanese values. 

 

So, I don't think the ending was what Kishimoto planned. And yes, I think he's fibbing when he says he did. But I don't think he's unhappy with the ending. Because it was a good business decision to extend Naruto into the new series, and in Japanese culture, it would be nearly unthinkable to not do what was best for the group.

 

We can't infer these things from the manga pages, or even from the interviews. But we can make fairly educated guesses about the nature of business and the impact of traditional Japanese culture. And in that light, it helps me see why Kishi went the route he did. (Doesn't make me thrilled, but at least I understand why.)



#620 tricksie

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:44 PM

 

Lastly, you need to understand that all those sources you lean on so heavily all come from one place. The publisher of Naruto, Shonen Jump and it's parent company Shueisha. Just about every piece of info we've ever received about Naruto has actually come from the publisher itself. All those interviews and anecdotes about the franchise were always published by the actual franchise's publisher. 

 

Right! It's so hard to remember that in this day and age press releases are carefully crafted from the publicity engines within companies. Even when they have quotes from the original author, it's still an article written by another hand.

 

It is never about what the creator thinks or wants — it is only about the marketing goal that the parent company is trying to hit.

 

We are fortunate to have a few massively popular authors who tweet periodically, so we can know where they stand (JK Rowling, for instance). But Kishimoto seems to be intensely private. So we don't have a direct connection from him, on twitter or any other source.

 

And I tend to think, with Japanese culture being focused on community and going all-in on a project or goal, that he would never tweet something that undermined Naruto, whether he was contractually obligated to or not.

 

But yes, yes, yes - everything we've ever gotten from Kishimoto has been framed in an interview or story that is to build up Naruto the franchise. Specifically by the publishers. Kishimoto didn't personally arrange those interviews, he didn't write those stories, he didn't send them out to magazines. The publicity engines of the parent company did. They lined up meetings, took the best quotes, wrote the stories and circulated them. 

 

So when you want to look to Kishimoto's words to find truth behind them, remember he's functioning as Naruto the Franchise's spokesman. And if Naruto had ended on the darkest timeline and turned out to be the hand behind Pain or the true leader of the Akatsuki...then Kishimoto would have been saying that that had been planned from the beginning! :lol:







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