54175 replies to this topic

[BlueStarSaber]

I have the Box set for Fullmetal Alchemist 

[Phantom_999]

So time to begin my tirade.   what I will be adressing again today are two points of contention for me personally in the "universal truth" that all Hinata Hyuga Hieropahants preach about her boundless love for Naruto and why they are the perfect couple that deserve to be together despite not actually developing in the story. 1. Naruto is not a romance manga. 2. Hinata loved Naruto first.
 
Naruto is not a romance manga- As I've stated before and I'm sure others here have too, WHETHER NARUTO is a romance manga or not is irrelevant because of a single factor. For that argument to justify why Naruto would get together with a random female character with little to no development, he HAS TO BE not interested in ANY female. If Naruto was solely focused on becoming Hokage and did not harbor any interest in romance with the opposite sex, then sure, Hinata would not need any real development/ narrative cohesion with Naruto for them to be a couple. But what has been shown time and time again? Naruto always loved Sakura. Not liked. LOVED.  We've seen seen him put aside his feelings in consideration of Sakura on at least 2 occasions, when Sakura was hugging Sasuke in relieve after the latter was released from his Tsukuyomi illusion and when Naruto made the POAL to Sakura.  And duely note, that Naruto usually would try to get Sakura's attention like he would with everyone else because of being devoid of love and attention all of his life. But in those instances he put aside his wants and even toned down his hyperactivity to give Sakura space and comfort her respectively. Let's also put this into perspective. The other mainstream top shonen series of the past, Dragon Ball, Bleach, and One Piece have their MCs devoid of any attraction to the female population more or less (Ichigo's awareness of provacative sitiuations aside) therefore the not a romance manga is justified. Goku never showed interest in any girl or woman, same with Luffy, and Ichigo never made any preference for any female in his series clear. Naruto again though, showed his feelings for Sakura SINCE CHAPTER 3. And this is also something for consideration too, and that is  "Not a romance manga" is a plot convience to NOT DEVELOP a romantic relationship where the audience can see it "on panel" and make it happen for no reason or narrative consistency. Meaning, you can pair Goku with with Launch/Lunch (the girl with the split personality in early DragonBall that was quickly forgotten), Ichigo with with Soi fon, Luffy with Shirahoshi, And Naruto with Tenten, Ino or any other random named girl in the franchise and it would make JUST AS MUCH SENSE and have JUST AS MUCH validation. "Not a romance manga" MEANS that Naruto's wife DOESN'T have to be Hinata. I've said this before I'm sure.
 
Hinata always loved Naruto first- Love........ is a strong word for this situation if you ask me. Admired, sure. Has a crush on, definitely. But Love? I don't know about anyone else but for the dynamic between Hinata and Naruto to constitute as love for me, there would actually have to be a sort of established bond that is given focus. But as the story already stated before that "Hinata-central retcon movie" to have her and that "fake Naruto" tie the knot, the two were barely acquainted. Besides, all of that "Hinata always loved Naruto" is told not shown. I have never seen any flash backs of Hinata anywhere NEAR Naruto when he was being emotionally and socially abused by the villagers in their childhood. I don't see Hinata comforting Naruto when he's in distress about Sasuke, and if she knows him nearly as as well as her loony advocates THINK she does, she would know that Sasuke is an all too important presence in Naruto's life. If there was to be some sort of actual fact that Hinata loves Naruto she would at least interact with him and try to cheer him up when he's depressed or show that they hang out together at least some of the time, BUT SHE DOESN'T. And no, being shy is not an excuse. Being shy did not stop her from giving him that ointment after his match with Kiba in the preliminiaries for the third round in the Chuunin exam, did it? Not to mention, I've seen many rom-com manga/anime where there is a shy girl that is to not be the the endgame girlfriend/wife of the MC yet they do all of the above that I mentioned. They interact with their love interest, the MC on occasion and do things try cheer up the MC when he's down and have fun times together overall when the story so pleases to show it. And before Hinata Cultists can say another word for the nth time that this is "not a romance manga", need I remind them that those moments DO HAPPEN between Naruto and Sakura? Now you mean to tell me that Naruto can have such moments, platonic or not with whom the Hinata fanatics call a "she-devil" for daring to not love Naruto always and in their minds even friend zoned him, but not Hinata herself that always loved him? Okay, makes perfect sense to me.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

My point overall is that to establish that Hinata is Naruto's love interest because "she loved him first", THE MANGA would have gone out of its way to show intimacy between them and  "the Last" would not be needed. And Ironically, again, If Naruto is "not a romance manga" why is "the Last" all about turning Naruto Nardo into a love sick puppy for Hinata and falls into depression when she rejects him that he didn't care if the world ended and only fought back to win Hinata back from her "coerced marriage?"

Edited by Phantom_999, 15 October 2020 - 05:26 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

So time to begin my tirade.   what I will be adressing again today are two points of contention for me personally in the "universal truth" that all Hinata Hyuga Hieropahants preach about her boundless love for Naruto and why they are the perfect couple that deserve to be together despite not actually developing in the story. 1. Naruto is not a romance manga. 2. Hinata loved Naruto first.
 
Naruto is not a romance manga- As I've stated before and I'm sure others here have too, WHETHER NARUTO is a ramance manga or not is irreleveant because of a single factor. For that argument to justify why Naruto would get together with a random female character with little to no development, he HAS TO BE not interested in ANY female. If Naruto was solely focused on becoming Hokage and did not harbor any interest in romance with the opposite sex, then sure, Hinata would not need any real development/ narrative cohesion with Naruto for them to be a couple. But what has been shown time and time again? Naruto always loved Sakura. Not liked. LOVED.  we've seen seen him put aside his feelings in consideration of Sakura on at least 2 occasions, when Sakura was hugging Sasuke in relieve after the latter was released from his Tsukuyomi illusion and when Naruto made the POAL to Sakura.  And due note, that Naruto usually would try to get Sakura's attention like he would with everyone else because of being devoid of love and attention all of his life. But in those instances he put aside his wants and even toned down his hyperactivity to give Sakura space and comfort her respectively. Let's also put this into perspective. The other mainstream top shonen series of the past, Dragon Ball, Bleach, and One Piece have thier MCs devoid of any attraction to the female population more or less (Ichigo's awareness of provacative sitiuations aside). Goku never showed interest in any girl or woman, Same with Luffy, and Ichigo never made any preference for any female in his seriess clear. Naruto again though, showed dhis feelings for Sakura SINCE CHAPTER 3. And this is also something for consideration too, and that is  "Not a romance manga" is a plot convience to NOT DEVELOP a romantic relationship where the audience can see it "on panel" and make it happen for no reason or narrative consistency. Meaning you can pair Goku with with Launch/Lunch the girl in early DragonBall that was quickly forgotten, Ichigo with with Soi fon, Luffy with Shirahoshi, And Naruto with Tenten, Ino or any other random named girl in the franchise and it would make JUST AS MUCH SENSE and have JUST AS MUCH validation. I've said this before I'm sure.
 
Hinata always loved Naruto first- Love........ is a strong word for this situation if you ask me. Admired, sure. Has a crush on, definitely. But Love? I don't know about anyone else but for the dynamic between Hinata and Nruto to constitute as love for me, there would actually have to be a sort of established bond that is give focus. But as the story already stated before that "Hinata-central retcon movie" to have her ant that "fake Naruto" tie the knot, the two were barely aqqainted. Besides, all of that Hinata always loved Naruto is told not shown. I have never seen Hinata anywhere NEAR Naruto when he was being emotionally and socially abused by the villagers in their childhood. I don't see Hinata comforting Naruto when he's in distress about Sasuke, and if she knows him nearly as as well as her loony advocates THINK she does she would know that Sasuke is an all too important precence in Naruto's life. If there was to be some sort of actual fact that Hinata Loves Naruto she would at least interact with him and try to cheer him up when he's depressed or show that they hang out together at least some of the time, BUT SHE DOESN'T. And no being shy is not an excuse. Being shy did not stop her from giving him that ointment after his match with Kiba in the pre,imiriaes for the third round in the Chuunin exam did it? not to mention I've seen many rom-com manga/anime where there is a shy girl that is PAINFULLY obvious to not be the the endgame girlfriend/wife of the MC yet they do all of the above that I mentioned. They interact with their love interest, the MC on occasion and do things try cheer up the MC when he's down and have fun times together overall when the story so pleaes to show it. And before Hinata Cultists can say aonther word for the nth time that this is "not a romance manga", need I remind them that those moments DO HAPPEN between Naruto and Sakura. Nowe you mean to tell me that Naruto can have such moments, platonic or not with whom the Hinata fanatics call a "she-devil" for daring to not love Naruto always and in their minds even friend zoned him, but not Hinata herself that always loved him? Okay makes sense to me, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

My point overall is that to establish that Hinata is Naruto's love interest, THE MANGA would have gone out of its way to show intimacy between them and  "the Last" would not be needed. And Ironically, again, If Naruto is "not a romance manga" why is "the Last" all about turning Naruto Nardo into alove sick puppy for Hinata and falls into depression whne she rejects him that he didn't care if the world ended and only fought back to win Hinata back from her "coerced marriage?"

 

And that is what we call a mike drop!

[totherpage95]

https://www.cbr.com/...suke-questions/
#1 : so did sasuke try to break it off with sakura with a chidori to the heart? ah young love



ps. sasuke and everyone deserved better than the ending

Edited by totherpage95, 09 October 2020 - 05:44 AM.

[Riverkid]

What's really infuriating about this fanbase is that those who attempt to argue for the legitimacy of NH have no real stance.

 

This simply shows how people receive a story.

 

It's less about the argumentation and the points of view, but why one takes this position in the first place. The arguments, whether they are right or wrong, are only the by-product of their own conclusion to take a certain position. If you stand up for something, you will argue for it - exaggeratedly or reasonably.

 

Where the core motivation to support Naruto and Hinata comes is more interesting than dealing with the arguments about them itself.

 

The good thing is that the search for the answer does not take that long, because there were just short, sporadic - but concise - events between Naruto and Hinata. Her confession in a dramatic situation with Pain and their cohension in the tragic case of Neji stand out the most here. There are many more events, but most of them are only characterized by Hinata's one-sided admiration towards Naruto. Of course, on the mentioned points, one can open the case for a possible romantic relationship between the two of them - if the romantic relation was a single-usecase in the story.

 

There are no alternatives from Hinata's point of view. This lies in the nature of the character - to have only eyes for Naruto. In addition, Hinata herself is not an unlikable character and people who are very sympathetic to her character commit themselves to her attentions aswell.

 

It is a bit more difficult from Naruto's point of view, because there are several variables involved. There are alternatives and the audience has to weigh them up for themself. The real problem becomes clear in this case. Of course, one can go into more detail and interpret and evaluate every spoken word and every action, however It becomes clear how many people take the sporadic events with Hinata more strongly, where the author also emphasized them psychologically in the process, than the constant and long lasting relationship with Sakura. The relationship with Sakura is not directly triggered, it is a slow building relationship with dynamic states. The relationship with Hinata is only characterized by events that trigger the psychological approach - which i will be mention below.

 

For this reason TV-Shows are often strongly criticized. The plot and the subject is usually in the background, because it is preferred to play around with interpersonal constellations to hit some emotional nerves from the audience. Oh, this is a post-apocalypse? Medieval Setting? a trip to an unknown planet? - Let's build in a triangular relationship with jealousy and unwanted pregnancy. How about we add an amazing backstory to person A that turns the tide. We are about to rob a bank? Anyway, we have to settle unresolved arguments from the past here and now!

 

The main thing is that the viewer is constantly confronted with drama in order to take a psychological position, which is actually completely irrelevant in the respective scenario and world setting. Many people like to be driven by such things, which is why many people like to watch such things in the end. It also leads to the misleading prediction that complex stories are profound and contain quality - whereby the complexity here is simply reflected in the fact that most people want to be emotionally touched in several facets. They see the event of Hinata risking her life and confessing her love - and it trumps 400 episodes of long-term development between Naruto and Sakura. The bad thing is that the author is also actively involved in making this happen, not only with Hinata - but in general.

 

Hinata could have been used to developed the setting in so many ways in relation to the Hyugas, but instead she is only used as a psychological tool, which works in a simple and naïve way on most people - as if a growing person is fed by someone else's hand (in this case by the author) and can't resolve the natural process of the story on his own.

 

The natural process that the author deliberately breaks for his naïve methods and to push for his desired outcomes.

 

EDIT: Wording / Additions

Edited by Riverkid, 11 October 2020 - 04:35 PM.

[totherpage95]

kishi: all the parallels are a red herring
also kishi: this movie is about naruto breaking up with kushina
 

[Phantom_999]

Kushina in the manga/ anime: Thank you for being born to us!!!

 

Nardo in "The Last": F#@& EVERYTHING (including my parents)!!! I'm nothing without my baby factory/dutch wife Hinata Hyuga in my life!!!     

 

just saying

Edited by Phantom_999, 24 October 2020 - 01:24 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Kushina in the manga/ anime: Thank you for being born to us!!!

 

Nardo in "The Last": F#@& EVERYTHING (including my parents)!!! I'm nothing without my baby factory/dutch wife Hinata Hyuga in mylife!!!     

 

just saying

 

Sad part is, that's basically what happened. XD

[James S Cassidy]

kishi: all the parallels are a red herring
also kishi: this movie is about naruto breaking up with kushina
 

That really is a messed up part.

Naruto's mother is considered an obstacle for Hinata. So, Kushina is NOT Hinata because if Hinata is like Kushina, then Kushina would not be an obstacle

[Phantom_999]

Weren’t Hinata Hierophants being all like, Naruto is like Kushina, Hinata is like Minato?

[James S Cassidy]

Weren’t Hinata Hierophants being all like, Naruto is like Kushina, Hinata is like Minato?

They said that after Minato said Sakura was like Kushina, but again...Kushina is not only not compared to Hinata, but thanks to Naruto the Last was seen as an obstacle because Hinata got jealous of Kushina's scarf.

Think about that one.

[Phantom_999]

Yeah I know. "Red sring of anihilation" I've said. EVERYTHING had to get axed for Hinata to get the d* from her dream man because he wouldn't notice her otherwise

Edited by Phantom_999, 12 October 2020 - 01:52 AM.

[Dalton.T.R]

I'm very curious as to what the dating stage would have been like with Naruto and Sakura had they gotten together and Kishimoto actually wrote it out.

 

I'm picturing some pretty comical stuff here. Imagine if Naruto ever tried to prank Sakura by sneaking up on her and randomly tickling her out of nowhere. It would be funny to see him actually win against her for once. Of course, it'd likely be short victory because she'd launch him into orbit when he was done, but it'd still be pretty comical. In my opinion anyway. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I'm very curious as to what the dating stage would have been like with Naruto and Sakura had they gotten together and Kishimoto actually wrote it out.

 

I'm picturing some pretty comical stuff here. Imagine if Naruto ever tried to prank Sakura by sneaking up on her and randomly tickling her out of nowhere. It would be funny to see him actually win against her for once. Of course, it'd likely be short victory because she'd launch him into orbit when he was done, but it'd still be pretty comical. In my opinion anyway. 

 

I could imagine her bonking him rapidly, and Naruto, bruised up, going "I may have won the battle, but I lost the war!" Reminded me from the dub of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba, when Zenitsu was doing some training and grabbed Aoi only for her to bonk him and for him to say something similar.

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 12 October 2020 - 02:19 AM.

[Dalton.T.R]

 

I could imagine her bonking him rapidly, and Naruto, bruised up, going "I may have won the battle, but I've lost the war!" Reminded me from the dub of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba, when Zenitsu was doing some training and grabbed Aoi only for her to bonk him and for him to say something similar.

Of course...there's always the possibility she'd actually like it.   There are people out there like that, where being tickled is more of a sexual turn on than it is a form of torture. 

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I think she would secretly love his tickles because he's doing it out of love.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I think she would secretly love his tickles because he's doing it out of love.

 

Yeah, but given her feistiness, I imagine Sakura would probably either whack Naruto a few times, or send him flying accidentally.

[Derock]

I will say Sakura will send Naruto flying or whack him a couple of times if he does that in public. Privately, however...   

[totherpage95]

interviewer: so lets talk about sasuke and sakura
kishi: wait i still haven't decided i might have them go their separate ways

[totherpage95]

https://www.animenew...omic-con/.94186
so in this interview kishi says hinata was decided in the middle of the story when he realized she loved him before iruka but in another one he says hinata was always meant to marry naruto

https://web.archive....ival-of-boruto/

 

Attached Files

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Edited by totherpage95, 12 October 2020 - 09:37 PM.