54175 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 
Hmm this is true. Well At least I'm happy that this attitude did not extend to BlackClover at least. (I miss the anime so much, even though I have so many problems being animated by SP, but at least it wasn't the Naruto/Boruto team)

True but there was still a lot of crap they did with the Black Clover anime even if it was still pretty well done in its own ways

[TheFirstEvil100]

True but there was still a lot of crap they did with the Black Clover anime even if it was still pretty well done in its own ways

How the hell are they still in business with the kitten they pull, you think by now someone would tell them to stop.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

How the hell are they still in business with the kitten they pull, you think by now someone would tell them to stop.

THAT... I dunno! Maybe because they've been in the game for so long. That's all I got.

[Phantom_999]

True but there was still a lot of crap they did with the Black Clover anime even if it was still pretty well done in its own ways

Yeah I’m aware. Mimosa for instance -__- Still, I can’t complain because it is Black Clover and I still treasure it since My mom really enjoyed it too and we watched every week when it aired. I think it could actually be argued as her favourite WSJ animated series

Edited by Phantom_999, 23 November 2021 - 05:41 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah Im aware. Mimosa for instance -__- Still, I cant complain because it is Black Clover and I still treasure it since My mom really enjoyed it too and we watched every week when it aired. I think it could actually be argued as her favourite WSJ animated series

It sure is leaps and bounds over what Naruto became thats for sure!

[Bail o' Lies]

How the hell are they still in business with the kitten they pull, you think by now someone would tell them to stop.

Find a person that analyzes anime studios for that answer.

 

But a guess, its because their anime tend to be mega-successful (or them just riding off Naruto again) that mangaka were willing to put up with it for the most part. Companies don't care about anything other then profit and image. They probably took a big hit once what happened with Naruto happened as well as Boruto. But that just tells you how high they were to land around average with as big of a fall they had.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 27 November 2021 - 03:28 PM.

[Nate River]

 
But what does Naruto know? He didn't understand love.  the movie painted Sakura as a manipulator and false friend and Naruto a hormone driven simpleton that accepted Hinata's love as a pity prize and became jealous AFTER THE FACT. Beut he doesn't know what love is unless it comes to Hinata, despite having a certain emotional maturity because he always wanted to be loved by a family. that movie was a disservice to the fans and the characters themselves in every worst possible way. And let's not forget, Naruto competing with Sasuke for Sakura= bad. Sakura and Ino competing for Sasuke and Naruto competing with Toneri for Hinata = A-Okay
 

 
Minus the wing woman part, That's what I've been saying. Sakura is Naruto's actual best friend, because she is his constant emotional support and biggest supporter throughout the series. the Last ruined that however, and no I'm not talking about any romance between them but it SPAT on their very friendship because Naruto HAD to have his true love be Hinata.

 

For me, this, writing wise, was the one of the worst things he did. Some of my favorite moments from this series were Part 1 instances of Naruto's selflessness. Regardless of how the pairings turned out in the long run Naruto did a number of things for her because he believed it would make her happy, even at his own expense. I think the hospital scene was where he became convinced she loved Sasuke and wasn't going to love him. Though he would have gone for Sasuke regardless, he made the promise he made to her because he cared about her. Her happiness was his priority not whether he ever won her affection. In Chapter 3, he empathized with her pursuit of Sasuke. 

 

It's evident he knows what love is and knows its not just his love his Ramen. This feels like a homage to Goku thinking marriage is food, but it doesn't work here because its clear he knows what it is and he's nowhere near as socially inept as Goku is. It really can't be reconciled cleanly with anything that happens before that, but to the extent any reconciliation is possible, it makes him look terrible and ruins many of his best character moments. 

 

This is one of the reasons I feel, that if NH fans want they can have him. I have no interest in this version of Naruto being paired with anyone.

[Derock]

 

For me, this, writing wise, was the one of the worst things he did. Some of my favorite moments from this series were Part 1 instances of Naruto's selflessness. Regardless of how the pairings turned out in the long run Naruto did a number of things for her because he believed it would make her happy, even at his own expense. I think the hospital scene was where he became convinced she loved Sasuke and wasn't going to love him. Though he would have gone for Sasuke regardless, he made the promise he made to her because he cared about her. Her happiness was his priority not whether he ever won her affection. In Chapter 3, he empathized with her pursuit of Sasuke. 

 

It's evident he knows what love is and knows its not just his love his Ramen. This feels like a homage to Goku thinking marriage is food, but it doesn't work here because its evident throughout he knows what it is and he's nowhere near as socially inept as Goku is. It really can't be reconciled cleanly with anything that happens before that, but to the extent any reconciliation is possible, it makes him look terrible and ruins many of his best character moments. 

 

This is one of the reasons I feel, that if NH fans what they can have him. I have no interest in this version of Naruto be paired with anyone.

 

And that's the problem because in order for Naruto to "love" Hinata, he had to receive a character assassination by making him or similar to Goku. That was the most stupidest move SP did on their end because they want to be a cash cow like Dragonball, (not mention listening to the radical/otaku fans thinking that "Hinata receiving a role upgrade = money"). However, that was a dumb move because the franchise were already in that status, especially in the West. 

 

The franchise and Naruto's characterization would had been fine and stay in tact if SP (along with the editors and Shueisha) left it as is, so we could had a least decent sequel /Part 3. But nooooooooo..... 

[Bail o' Lies]

And that's the problem because in order for Naruto to "love" Hinata, he had to receive a character assassination by making him or similar to Goku. That was the most stupidest move SP did on their end because they want to be a cash cow like Dragonball, (not mention listening to the radical/otaku fans thinking that "Hinata receiving a role upgrade = money"). However, that was a dumb move because the franchise were already in that status, especially in the West. 

 

The franchise and Naruto's characterization would had been fine and stay in tact if SP (along with the editors and Shueisha) left it as is, so we could had a least decent sequel /Part 3. But nooooooooo..... 

It wasn't he needed character assassination in order to love Hinata, it was his character had to be destroyed so she wouldn't be seen as his second choice. SP did not want their waifu seen as the Silver medal. Since, no matter how you look at the story; Naruto only got together with Hinata once it was clear Sakura and Sasuke were getting together.

 

In the manga, it seemed Naruto backed off because Sasuke was finally realizing his feelings for Sakura and he wanted his two most important people to be happy. Despite him still being in love with Sakura. Then he married Hinata to repay the favor of Neji's sacrifice by marrying his widow.

 

In the movie, Naruto only went after Sakura because he understood Sasuke liked her...somehow? Sakura realized this sometime after the war ended and rejected him fully. Then The Last happened.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 25 November 2021 - 08:10 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

It wasn't he needed character assassination in order to love Hinata, it was his character had to be destroyed so she wouldn't be seen as his second choice. SP did not want their waifu seen as the Silver medal. Since, no matter how you look at the story; Naruto only got together with Hinata once it was clear Sakura and Sasuke were getting together.

 

In the manga, it seemed Naruto backed off because Sasuke was finally realizing his feelings for Sakura and he wanted his two most important people to be happy. Despite him still being in love with Sakura. Then he married Hinata to repay the favor of Neji's sacrifice by marrying his widow.

 

In the movie, Naruto only went after Sakura because he understood Sasuke liked her...somehow? Sakura realized this sometime after the war ended and rejected him fully. Then The Last happened.

It still amazes me on these romance stories where the people constantly say "I am doing this to make the other person happy." It sounds selfless on the surface, but in reality it is the most selfish thing to say to someone. You don't know what really makes another person happy. The biggest happiness you can give someone is a choice. 

The ironic thing is is this discussion is constantly pushed around in the story, but never done practically.
Naruto wanted Sakura to be happy, but he never told her how he felt.
Sakura wanted Naruto to be happy, but never asked him how he felt.
Sasuke constantly told Naruto and Sakura how he felt, and they literally ignored it in favor of what they wanted for him.
Hinata is the most selfish out of all of them, because she didn't care about anyone, but herself. Everything she did was for her infatuation, not for her love. If it really was about Naruto, she would have let him feel how he wanted instead of brainwashing him.

Hinata is the most selfish because she only cares about herself

Next is Sakura because she keeps pushing how she wants both boys to feel to the point that they have no say: "Sasuke you HAVE to love me because I love you. Naruto you HAVE to love Hinata because I love Sasuke and I don't want to feel guilty about not loving you."
Naruto is selfish because instead of living the life he wanted, he lived a life everyone told him to live whether they did consciously or sub-consciously
Sasuke is actually the least selfish in this context because he didn't care how anyone else lived as long as they didn't get in his way of his goal which they constantly did. 

Compare this to Ochako with Deku. She loves Deku, but she has her own career to look into. She supported Deku in many ways and even changed a few things to support him...not because she wanted to be noticed and loved by him, but because she legit wanted to help him. THAT is is selfless love and even though she may get jealous and envious every now and them...that is just her being her.

It amazes me how Sasuke was literally open since day 1 with Naruto and Sakura and they both just legit ignored everything Sasuke was saying.

Team 7: "Sasuke, what do you want in life?"
Sasuke: "My family was murdered by my brother. I want to punish him and try to bring honor back to my family for the betrayal. I want to know the truth"

Naruto: "Man, Sasuke is a mystery. I don't know what he wants in life. I wish I was him and be popular"
Sasuke: "No, I want justice for my family and clans murder. I don't care about popularity, I just miss my family."

Sakura: "Sasuke is in love with me and he probably is too scared to admit"
Sasuke: "I actually don't care about you and have no feelings. I just want my family back."

Kakashi: "Sasuke probably just wants friends to be around since I lost mind and am miserable alone."
Sasuke: "That sucks, bro, but I just want to avenge my family."

Actually, thinking of it this way, I can see why people like Sasuke because he was being the most truthful one who actually had a legit goal. Sure, I don't agree with how Sasuke went about it, but I get it. 

[Nate River]

It wasn't he needed character assassination in order to love Hinata, it was his character had to be destroyed so she wouldn't be seen as his second choice. SP did not want their waifu seen as the Silver medal. Since, no matter how you look at the story; Naruto only got together with Hinata once it was clear Sakura and Sasuke were getting together.

 

 

 

Precisely. They could have allowed Naruto and Sakura to be mature adults. Naruto could have simply decided that she loved Sasuke and moved on. Hell, he seemed to do that in Part 1 when he was 12 (at least accepting that she loved Sasuke and not him). At least then, they don't retroactively ruin years of character development. 

[Bail o' Lies]

Precisely. They could have allowed Naruto and Sakura to be mature adults. Naruto could have simply decided that she loved Sasuke and moved on. Hell, he seemed to do that in Part 1 when he was 12 (at least accepting that she loved Sasuke and not him). At least then, they don't retroactively ruin years of character development. 

If you're talking about either the scene after Tsunade healed Sasuke or his comment before he made his promise of a lifetime. Well, the answer the same either way. Naruto understood it, which is why in Shippuden he wasn't actively pursuing her as much as he could. He still loved her and held the torch for her, but he wasn't going to make a move before Sasuke was brought back. He wanted her to be happy as well as have here choice. So, either he win her heart while Sasuke is or around or he doesn't because she still loves Sasuke. His old classmates understood this on some level, so never really pressed it. Then Sai came along, his role in the story was to note those feelings they had for each-other and both constantly try to make them admit it as well as push them together. Of course nothing could truly happen till Sasuke was brought back...Then kishimoto became convinced that the rematch needed to be the final battle instead of somewhere in the middle where it belongs. Which of course made every thing get dragged out and eventually led to the ending.

[soodarling]

Naruto is probably one of the most emotionally intelligent characters but according to The Last does not know the difference between romantic love and love... food? I don't understand how NH fans can even accept such a stupid film. It could have been a beautiful film if Naruto's love for Hinata were not so weird. Basically he likes it because she loves it, it's as simple as that. He had his brain washed by a genjutsu. If it had been an NS film, this scene could have worked because Naruto already loved Sakura so it wouldn't have been problematic. And I really liked the part where you talk about Sasuke. He is ultimately one of the least boring characters at the end.

[Bail o' Lies]

Naruto is probably one of the most emotionally intelligent characters but according to The Last he does not know the difference between romantic love and love for... food? I don't understand how NH fans can even accept such a stupid film. It could have been a beautiful film if Naruto's love for Hinata were not so weird. Basically he likes it because she loves it, it's as simple as that. He had his brain washed by a genjutsu. If it had been an NS film, this scene could have worked because Naruto already loved Sakura so it wouldn't have been problematic. And I really liked the part where you talk about Sasuke. He is ultimately one of the least boring characters at the end.

Sasuke was the one least affected by the ending. What he became a wandering hobo with a kid he doesn't take care of and eventually becomes the mentor to the new main character. Compared to Sakura's regressing back to zero, Naruto failing at everything he set out to do, Hinata's quick rise in importance and then equally quick fall because she lack anything character-wise that could keep her as a main character, and Kakashi has pretty much disappeared like the rest of the older generation.

 

As for nH they don't care. They won and they got a wedding in the anime as the ending to the anime. Of course that's for the radicals, most just got bored and moved on to other series.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 28 December 2021 - 04:03 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

If you're talking about either the scene after Tsunade healed Sasuke or his comment before he made his promise of a lifetime. Well, the answer the same either way. Naruto understood it, which is why in Shippuden he wasn't actively pursuing her as much as he could. He still loved her and held the torch for her, but he wasn't going to make a move before Sasuke was brought back. He wanted her to be happy as well as have here choice. So, either he win her heart while Sasuke is or around or he doesn't because she still loves Sasuke. His old classmates understood this on some level, so never really pressed it. Then Sai came along, his role in the story was to note those feelings they had for each-other and both constantly try to make them admit it as well as push them together. Of course nothing could truly happen till Sasuke was brought back...Then kishimoto became convinced that the rematch needed to be the final battle instead of somewhere in the middle where it belongs. Which of course made every thing get dragged out and eventually led to the ending.

 

It's honestly why I think naruto vs sasuke should of happened mid way the war at least, is after naruto beats sasuke and he gets doubled crossed by tobi he goes on a small journey of self refection and lets go of his hatred for the leaf and vows to protect it or his friend naruto at least. In many way it should of been a story similar story to peter and harry's in spider-man 3, though whether or not sasuke should die by self sacrifice is up for debate

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 
It's honestly why I think naruto vs sasuke should of happened mid way the war at least, is after naruto beats sasuke and he gets doubled crossed by tobi he goes on a small journey of self refection and lets go of his hatred for the leaf and vows to protect it or his friend naruto at least. In many way it should of been a story similar story to peter and harry's in spider-man 3, though whether or not sasuke should die by self sacrifice is up for debate

Good call and it worked so well when Harry let go of his anger to help Peter save MJ, just like Peter forgiving Flint for his involvement in Bens death

[sushi.]

Sasuke was the one least effected by the ending. What he became a wandering hobo with a kid he doesn't take care of and eventually becomes the mentor to the new main character. Compared to Sakura's regressing back to zero, Naruto failing at everything he set out to do, Hinata's quick rise in importance and then equally quick fall because she lack anything character-wise the could keep her as a main character, and Kakashi has pretty much disappeared like the rest of the older generation.
 
As for nH they don't care. They won and they got a wedding in the anime as the ending to the anime. Of course that's for the radicals, most just got bored and moved on to other series.

NS people were smart enough to leave. I did but came back lol. SNS too, but theyre kinda stuck as the ship has lots of moments in the sequels.

But neutrals, ns and sns people are mostly anti-ending. SS too actually which is strange..like youre almost there mate : v

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

For me, this, writing wise, was the one of the worst things he did. Some of my favorite moments from this series were Part 1 instances of Naruto's selflessness. Regardless of how the pairings turned out in the long run Naruto did a number of things for her because he believed it would make her happy, even at his own expense. I think the hospital scene was where he became convinced she loved Sasuke and wasn't going to love him. Though he would have gone for Sasuke regardless, he made the promise he made to her because he cared about her. Her happiness was his priority not whether he ever won her affection. In Chapter 3, he empathized with her pursuit of Sasuke. 
 
It's evident he knows what love is and knows its not just his love his Ramen. This feels like a homage to Goku thinking marriage is food, but it doesn't work here because its clear he knows what it is and he's nowhere near as socially inept as Goku is. It really can't be reconciled cleanly with anything that happens before that, but to the extent any reconciliation is possible, it makes him look terrible and ruins many of his best character moments. 

Plus for Goku, we see him grow and genuinely love Chichi even with how their marriage happened. And we see it done well by Toei in the original DBZ for sure in serious moments when Goku fears for Chichi's safety as well as their kids.

With Naruto, we got none of that!

[James S Cassidy]

 

Precisely. They could have allowed Naruto and Sakura to be mature adults. Naruto could have simply decided that she loved Sasuke and moved on. Hell, he seemed to do that in Part 1 when he was 12 (at least accepting that she loved Sasuke and not him). At least then, they don't retroactively ruin years of character development. 

 

I can't believe I am saying this, but Hannah Montana in Disney had a triangle love that did it right and probably could have worked her. 
There was two boys she liked and had feelings, but she couldn't decide. Eventually, she had both their pictures on her bed trying to make up her mind. Eventually, she went outside to clear her mind when a gust of wind blew one of the pictures out the window and into her lap. Now you can see whose picture it is and she puts on a smile and you think "this is the guy she chose." Nope, she goes to the guy of the picture and tells him "I'm sorry, I can't be with you. You're a great guy, but when I saw your picture and wondered would your face make me smile everytime I wake up in the morning and it doesn't. It is not someone I can wake up with so...I am choosing the other guy."

Writing was a little sloppy, but the message I felt was heartfelt and made sense. She wanted the person who made her happy even just by waking up in the morning and it wasn't him. I think that is how they should have handled it: Where she sees Sasuke and realizes she doesn't make her smile like Naruto does.
 

 

If you're talking about either the scene after Tsunade healed Sasuke or his comment before he made his promise of a lifetime. Well, the answer the same either way. Naruto understood it, which is why in Shippuden he wasn't actively pursuing her as much as he could. He still loved her and held the torch for her, but he wasn't going to make a move before Sasuke was brought back. He wanted her to be happy as well as have here choice. So, either he win her heart while Sasuke is or around or he doesn't because she still loves Sasuke. His old classmates understood this on some level, so never really pressed it. Then Sai came along, his role in the story was to note those feelings they had for each-other and both constantly try to make them admit it as well as push them together. Of course nothing could truly happen till Sasuke was brought back...Then kishimoto became convinced that the rematch needed to be the final battle instead of somewhere in the middle where it belongs. Which of course made every thing get dragged out and eventually led to the ending.

 

A lot of Hallmark movies are like this. but she always chose the other guy (naruto) because she realizes even if her lust in place for the one guy, her heart was in another because she only thought what she wanted and not what she really needed. She is reminded of a feeling that she doesn't feel with Sasuke, but she does with Naruto and that is how they SHOULD have done it. 

What does Sakura feel with Sasuke? I don't see it. She doesn't feel protected. She doesn't feel loved. She doesn't feel anything really. She just feels empty and unsatisfied while both the fanbase and her lying to themselves saying "there is something hidden we can't see." No. You have to show me that, not tell me that and then show the opposite. 

 

 

It's honestly why I think naruto vs sasuke should of happened mid way the war at least, is after naruto beats sasuke and he gets doubled crossed by tobi he goes on a small journey of self refection and lets go of his hatred for the leaf and vows to protect it or his friend naruto at least. In many way it should of been a story similar story to peter and harry's in spider-man 3, though whether or not sasuke should die by self sacrifice is up for debate

 

This was an idea I have been pushing for a while. The Naruto and Sasuke fight should NOT have been the end.

 

 

Plus for Goku, we see him grow and genuinely love Chichi even with how their marriage happened. And we see it done well by Toei in the original DBZ for sure in serious moments when Goku fears for Chichi's safety as well as their kids.

With Naruto, we got none of that!

Goku has one thing in common with Sasuke....according to them they both have never kissed their wives and they both weren't there when their kids were born.

 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Goku has one thing in common with Sasuke....according to them they both have never kissed their wives and they both weren't there when their kids were born.

 

Yeah but at least Toei showed stuff in the anime like Goku kissing Chichi and also being there when Gohan got his name compared to what SP has done with NH and SS in spite of trying to portray them as these perfect couples that cant be wrong but are.