897 replies to this topic

[JILLNYN]

 

I hate to be the opposition but i think it's going to be a LAP.
First off things arent black and white and Sakura's feelings either if they are still romantic or not, i dont think they are immature anymore.
I remember when i said that Sakura tried to leave Naruto behind during her confession for Sasuke the argument that she was 12 years old and could not be judged because of this, if it's that so the argument here would be the same, Sakura was a girl and it was normal for her to be immature and she was immature on other moments too like the POAL and etc...

Now here comes the second part the "Nature of Sakura's feelings", Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are questionable currently if they are still on romantic nature, during various moments like the confession when she tried to kill Sasuke and when she still wanted to save Sasuke from darkness those alone already indicate that her love for Sasuke are not selfish anymore but however, nothing indicates that the nature of her feelings for Sasuke are still romantic.

As for her feelings for Naruto, it's certain they arent romantic in nature, as it was indicated on the confession when it was proved that "she loving Naruto romantically" was proved to be false, and her thoughts about Naruto doesnt indicated romance, like as an example during the CPR on which if it was to indicate romantic feelings the correct flashbacks were to be her moments wiht Naruto not something about hokage.
On which pass the indicative that her love is nothing of romantic yet.
As for "puts Naruto before anything at any cost regardless of whether she will be alone, she shows signs of a deep love".
It's no different than the love Neji, Kushina, Tsunade and other characters showed towards Naruto, excluding Hinata because it was shown to be of romantic nature "if it's stronger or weaker" not the point of this post and that never showed her cherishing Naruto's goals.

As to finish, i dont think Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are selfish because if it remained as it is, there's no explanation about why she wants to save Sasuke or even wanting to kill him, regardless the questionable fact is that if it's still of romantic nature or not and as for Naruto, they arent of romantic nature because Sakura didnt give hints it might be that.          

 

 

The change and development that has gone Sakura is so drastic that we need to divide it into stages.

Of course when I was talking about the book by Erich Fromm was specifically analyzing Sakura when she was 12, and the immature nature of their "love " at that stage specific , I quoted Fromm that starts from the premise that to love is should love himself and love others and Sakura does not love herself , always feels inferior to Ino , not seven is able to fight with her team, and she is very insecure, she sought recognition and all that in Sasuke hoped , hoped that would recognize and help overcome their insecurity of her forehead.

I do not question what type of nature of these feelings but about the origin of these, Her love is mature and genuine ? , Is it based on a objective knowledge of Sasuke or do is based on an idealization of Sasuke ? Ironically Kishimoto shows that Naruto is all what expected and idealized Sakura in Sasuke , Naruto is the one who helps her overcome her insecurities and grow.

 

If we will talk about the Sakura 17 is a very different woman, she is shown to be far from being a selfish person not only Naruto and Sasuke for the rest of humanity to , very different from the rest of his generation kunoichis , healing villagers , fight all support in her village as they are her resources, it is far from Sakura 12 years obsessed , she so loves herself, is sure of her power and ability that's why tells naruto that she is a capable woman to compete with , it is perfectly ripe for love , and feelings have matured a lot , do not know if she has feelings for Sasuke are still romantic , nor do we know if the feelings for Naruto are of romantic nature, but what we do know is that Sakura has feelings for Naruto are much more powerful than she feels for Sasuke, just for the way she puts the lives and dreams of Naruto first before it is she feels for Sasuke during various scenes from the manga some clues in the first part but especially during CPR and confession.

 

Use book that gives very good analysis to think about love in all its phases and their development, whatever that Sakura feel Naruto is very powerful and genuine, whether romantic or not and we can discuss it what is precious is all the long road traveled , what I like about Sakura is that it has stopped thinking about herself and her happiness and thinks everyone else , so it is a million times better than Hinata , she does not think to " take her hands with someone," she thinks, " I want that Naruto to be Hokage and be happy "

I do not care if others think whether romantic or not, I respect that, but I think and feel ithat t's the most romantic thing I've seen in Sakura to Naruto , love is not just a CPR kiss (xD) or a hug , are the actions the that are truly romantic and crank up of Naruto dream instead of Sasuke talks a lot about the power of these feelings for Naruto , do you put dream of who is your romantically love first before yours ?

That says more than a bouquet of flowers if you ask me .

Edited by JILLNYN, 25 May 2014 - 09:18 PM.

[Psychox]

At that moment she didnt just think about Sasuke, it was emphasized mostly her confession to him.
It gives romantic implications.

She thought how she confessed to him ,okay ,and? We saw Sasuke saying  kkthxbb and that  was it . Naruto's reaction to Sasuke's decent into darkness was far more dramatic than that.  Naruto remembered Hinata trying to save him , would that mean he loves her? Of course not.

 

 

Never implied it.

 

 

That's what you want though , Sakura to have thought something of the lines of Hinata's thoughts when her cousin died .Comparing Hinata's act with Sakura's , they can't even begin to match.

 

 

Doesnt disregard my point.

 

That they are strong? Sure, Kakashi and Naruto also care on the same level ,even more than that or you forget she was gonna give up on Sasuke more than once?
 

Still those werent the reasons and neither why she loves romantically.
They way that Kishimoto addresses love, which is the word that is implied it necessary doesnt mean "romance".

 

Tell me then , what do you find romantic in Sakura's actions to both Naruto and Sasuke. What and how do they differ?

 

 

 Didnt understood this implication i think you mistook what i said.

 

 

No, i directly understood what you meant ,you're having some troubles.

 

"they have enough" none of the reasons "Naruto was always at her side", "Naruto is a hero", "Naruto always supported her", "Naruto can make her happy", all those is basically all the things Naruto did to Sakura and mostly NS development up until that confession, and still didnt made Sakura love Naruto romantically, so i dont think it's enough when it lacks Naruto changing Sakura and the forehead aspect, so it indeed lacks development.
Naruto still needs to resolve Sakura's insecurites and recently it was shown her problem with powerups, with her being behind Naruto and Sasuke and failed to stand on equal grounds with them.

 

 

I haven't stated those,and i won't because they are crappy reasons ,and that's not why i ship them ,really.  And for the better , it would've made Naruto a nice guy in contrast with Sasuke ,and the whole ''Sasuke's evil  that's why NS will happen '' trope who parrot it all the time would be right. Well, on this one i'll agree, Naruto has to make a move aka confessing or addressing her forehead.

Naruto did that already in 631 ,she craved his acknowledgment. Her forehead issue isn't connected to her power ups.

 

And since Kishimoto loves parallels what Minato did to Kushina surprisingly is what is missing on NaruSaku development.

 

Yeah, Naruto actually opening up and telling Sakura why he likes her.

Edited by Psychox, 25 May 2014 - 09:28 PM.

[FireFox]

Those moments are mostly created to generate drama and made the audience guessing but i think on Naruto it's poorly done because of the confession, she evaluates her feelings for Naruto, says that she loves him and Kishimoto shows that she loves Sasuke.
It basically trolls and turn those moments into dust like they were nothing.
I think the biggest problem with this romance overall is that NS should have been canon ealier or if he wanted to keep the drama should not had done the confession, now he's rebuilding it by dodging and g meaningfull moments like Naruto's death for example, Naruto died and she thinking of his dream seemed weird to me, it took off the emotional aspect of his death.

Also i'm unable to understand why she's confused about her feelings because of the confession.

Those moments tells you the obvious just because you can't understand the confession  or don't see it like some of us in here doesn't mean that what Kishi intended with this scenes is useless or holds no meaning  just because it was said that she loves him doesn't mean that she was still "in love" with him  and no those are not "trolls moments" it means that Kishimoto is still not done with the build up and for NS to be revealed yet but he's getting there  .  

[James S Cassidy]

Actually i bought up some facts and my opinion on it, and the case of double standard, Sakura did things that other characters did aswell but for her she gets that she's in love with Naruto when characters like Neji also were capable and did things comparable to Sakura....

 

The same facts you bring up can also be used to prove Sakura has been in love with Naruto for a while. 

Hell, we even got her to confess her feelings to Naruto....but wait, you don't accept it. Actually this leads me to question, would you accept anything from Sakura at all? No matter what evidence is shown, you deny it, or you claim it as something else. So regardless if Sakura's confession was real or fake, the bigger question is would you accept it even if it was real? I'd say no, you wouldn't.

But if we are going to look at everything, then we will look at everything.

We could question on why all the other girls besides Sakura and Hinata don't show any interest in Naruto at all. (Ino, Ten-Ten, etc.) You'd think, even has a celebrity, some girls would want to be with that, but we don't get much reaction from other females. Why? We certainly got it from Sasuke and how all the girls swooned over him. Wouldn't you think Naruto would get the same treatment after he became Konoha's hero?

I could also question that since you take nothing as a reasonable sense of proof I could use that logic on Hinata and say "Well, she is just lying and really she just "admires" Naruto. Even her confession is just shallow and she even says this as she calls herself selfish." I could continue to argue that all the blushing, fainting, and etc was just interpretation and not really true love.

How can you be in love with a guy you don't know? Hinata certainly only knows the surface of Naruto, but not really his core. So I guess her love is questionable on what is "true love". You see, anyone can use facts and bend them to suit a theory, but at best it is nothing more than a guess. You and I can take the same scenes, the same facts, and use them to prove that our logic is sound. However, we both would never accept eachother's views.

Another problem I see is is when people kind of say "I don't see it that way" or "I don't accept that" in a debate. This is why I bring up the author's views because really only his views matter in what is really how something is to be taken. You can not accept it, but that doesn't make it any less true. Truth be told, you're the last person I expect to bring "double standards" as an argument as your views also play with those double standards just as much as anyone else's, maybe even more so in certain subjects.

So, forget my view...and forget your view....what's Kishimoto's view? I could bring up the interviews again, but again people don't accept that.



 

[Gojira]

And there you have your answer Naruto's safety is more important to her than anything so i don't know why are you having trouble seeing this ?

Its the other moment I'm having trouble with not that one. And not to downplay the moment but they still had time left until Orochimaru had to use the immortality jutsu.

[James S Cassidy]

Also i'm unable to understand why she's confused about her feelings because of the confession.

 

One more question actually: Have you ever been in love with two people at the same time or even have conflicting feelings over two people?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 May 2014 - 09:34 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The change and development that has gone Sakura is so drastic that we need to divide it into stages.

Of course when I was talking about the book by Erich Fromm was specifically analyzing Sakura when she was 12, and the immature nature of their "love " at that stage specific , I quoted Fromm that starts from the premise that to love is should love himself and love others and Sakura does not love herself , always feels inferior to Ino , not seven is able to fight with her team, and she is very insecure, she sought recognition and all that in Sasuke hoped , hoped that would recognize and help overcome their insecurity of her forehead.

I do not question what type of nature of these feelings but about the origin of these, Her love is mature and genuine ? , Is it based on a objective knowledge of Sasuke or do is based on an idealization of Sasuke ? Ironically Kishimoto shows that Naruto is all what expected and idealized Sakura in Sasuke , Naruto is the one who helps her overcome her insecurities and grow.

I think the aspect is that if we take in account it also doesnt make sense with what you showed.
The origin of feelings.
What's the origin of Sakura's feelings for Naruto?
if we go by that road it's a development so it's more about nature of it and not origin.
About Sasuke it's origin since it doesnt have development it's a childish crush.

As for Naruto it started too as a selfish childish crush up until chapter 3 where he realized he loves her and started respecting her feelings.
You're basically comparing a childish crush(SasuSaku) which a romantic love that will grow from countless chapters of comradship -> frienship -> platonic love.
 

If we will talk about the Sakura 17 is a very different woman, she is shown to be far from being a selfish person not only Naruto and Sasuke for the rest of humanity to , very different from the rest of his generation kunoichis , healing villagers , fight all support in her village as they are her resources, it is far from Sakura 12 years obsessed , she so loves herself, is sure of her power and ability that's why tells naruto that she is a capable woman to compete with , it is perfectly ripe for love , and feelings have matured a lot , do not know if she has feelings for Sasuke are still romantic , nor do we know if the feelings for Naruto are of romantic nature, but what we do know is that Sakura has feelings for Naruto are much more powerful than she feels for Sasuke, just for the way she puts the lives and dreams of Naruto first before it is she feels for Sasuke during various scenes from the manga some clues in the first part but especially during CPR and confession.

Then why you comapred Sakura's love for Sasuke when she's 12 with Sakura's love for Naruto when she's 17.
Both of those loves changed a lot, she also wants Sasuke to be happy just that she doesnt want to be romantically involved with Naruto.
 

If we will talk about the Sakura 17 is a very different woman, she is shown to be far from being a selfish person not only Naruto and Sasuke for the rest of humanity to , very different from the rest of his generation kunoichis , healing villagers , fight all support in her village as they are her resources, it is far from Sakura 12 years obsessed , she so loves herself, is sure of her power and ability that's why tells naruto that she is a capable woman to compete with , it is perfectly ripe for love , and feelings have matured a lot , do not know if she has feelings for Sasuke are still romantic , nor do we know if the feelings for Naruto are of romantic nature, but what we do know is that Sakura has feelings for Naruto are much more powerful than she feels for Sasuke, just for the way she puts the lives and dreams of Naruto first before it is she feels for Sasuke during various scenes from the manga some clues in the first part but especially during CPR and confession.

About Hinata, she's disliked because of her one-dimensional aspect of her love, but that doesnt downplay her moments.
I think someome who's capable of giving up his own life twice for someome you love, isn't no less meaningfull than the CPR or a hug.
Hinata trying to sacrifice her life for Naruto twice doesnt show that her love for Naruto is romantic but her infatuation is that show as it is.
Sakura's possibly romantic love is not based on infatuation because she has her own way to express that aside from that nothing indicates it.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 May 2014 - 09:50 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

That's what you want though , Sakura to have thought something of the lines of Hinata's thoughts when her cousin died .Comparing Hinata's act with Sakura's , they can't even begin to match.

Since i'm against 4 i think.
i'll just pinpoint some aspects.
Sakura doesnt have infatuation for Naruto therefore her way to display romantic love is different, she would think about her feelings for him in cases like CPR that's not something Hinata would do.
 

The same facts you bring up can also be used to prove Sakura has been in love with Naruto for a while. 

Hell, we even got her to confess her feelings to Naruto....but wait, you don't accept it. Actually this leads me to question, would you accept anything from Sakura at all? No matter what evidence is shown, you deny it, or you claim it as something else. So regardless if Sakura's confession was real or fake, the bigger question is would you accept it even if it was real? I'd say no, you wouldn't.

But if we are going to look at everything, then we will look at everything.

We could question on why all the other girls besides Sakura and Hinata don't show any interest in Naruto at all. (Ino, Ten-Ten, etc.) You'd think, even has a celebrity, some girls would want to be with that, but we don't get much reaction from other females. Why? We certainly got it from Sasuke and how all the girls swooned over him. Wouldn't you think Naruto would get the same treatment after he became Konoha's hero?

Evidence?
You rub my face with your interpretation of Kishimoto's interview and tells me to deal with it.
I dont accept Sakura's confession as true becasue the reasons behind it, her being pressured by her teammates, by the burden she said she bought to Naruto, her low view about herself, her goal of bringing Naruto back to the village, her reasons to state why she loves Naruto, the impression that she chose Naruto because she could not be with Sasuke and after that when she showed two or three times that she loves Sasuke doesnt lead to romantic feelings conclusion it could not be genuine.

About the girl's part, it's due to the fact Naruto is immature, his actions and the way he behaves it's not from someome who wants to be viewed in an romantic light.
 

One more question actually: Have you ever been in love with two people at the same time or even have conflicting feelings over two people?

NS would already become canon since she thought about her feelings for Naruto during the confession but as for the reasons pointed above it doesnt lead to the conclusion she loves Naruto's romantically, but rather that she's decided to be with Naruto because of the reasons she expressed on the confession but doesnt have proper feelings (romantically) for him, that's not what Naruto wants and going by the story, Sakura has to resolve her feelings for Sasuke to NS development to procceed and fill the gap that is missing which surprisingly is the same that MinaKushi had.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 May 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[FireFox]

Its the other moment I'm having trouble with not that one. And not to downplay the moment but they still had time left until Orochimaru had to use the immortality jutsu.

But did they know that or would they ever get another chance to get to Oro & Sasuke even Yamato stated this so no this was their only chance as for the KN4 moment again like i said the four of them when they met weren't able to bring him back Sasuke again escaped with Oro so what do you think how much of a chance she would have without Naruto ? The possibility of doing that is Zero/None but even if you still don't see this moment as her choosing Naruto over him the second one is clear as daylight . 

[Psychox]

Since i'm against 4 i think.
i'll just pinpoint some aspects.
Sakura doesnt have infatuation for Naruto therefore her way to display romantic love is different, she would think about her feelings for him in cases like CPR that's not something Hinata would do.
 

Haha , i think the site went high wire , i can see my name on words i haven't spoken XD.

 

Exactly.

[Hiraishin]

Ew, please don't bring up the times Hinata "sacrificed" her life for Naruto. The first time there was really no need for it, and her actions would have led to Naruto and the other villagers being killed if not for Minato. And the second time she got Neji killed. I don't find that selfless or admirable, I find them selfish and stupid.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Ew, please don't bring up the times Hinata "sacrificed" her life for Naruto. The first time there was really no need for it, and her actions would have led to Naruto and the other villagers being killed if not for Minato. And the second time she got Neji killed. I don't find that selfless or admirable, I find them selfish and stupid.

Neji killed himself because he wanted to, if we could by discuss the actions, we can point out that he could have used Kaiten and repelled that stuff there, as for his own words he stated that Hinata was read to give up her life for Naruto but also his other friends too because he's important.
Which for me was Kishimoto's troll on NH by not making Hinata "special".

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 May 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[luffyq1]

Neji killed himself because he wanted to

lol that's cold.

[Otaru]

Here words and the nature of that scene are implying that does it really matter if she didn't said that directly ? The purpose of that scene was for Naruto to stop doing this to himself because he's hurting himself and she didn't want that so she said she's gonna do it so he doesn't have to which means she's gonna do it for him . Why are we downplaying this ? 

 

I never wanted to downplay anything.

But I just want us to translate correctly this manga, and not play the NaruHina fanbase game.

 

Of course I know she said this for Naruto well being.

But saying that "she will save Sasuke FOR NARUTO" implies something bigger than what she said in reality =)

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

lol that's cold.

kkkkkk

the saddest part of his death is that it lead to nowhere.
That lesson Naruto was supposed to have learned that with Jiraya's death, Itachi's speech, and his talk with Kushina and Kurama.
Very OOC for him to have wavered like that with so much sacrifices on his back.

[FireFox]

 

I never wanted to downplay anything.

But I just want us to translate correctly this manga, and not play the NaruHina fanbase game.

 

Of course I know she said this for Naruto well being.

But saying that "she will save Sasuke FOR NARUTO" implies something bigger than what she said in reality =)

I don't quite get what you are trying to say can you be more specific ?  

[TheFirstEvil100]

kkkkkk

the saddest part of his death is that it lead to nowhere.
That lesson Naruto was supposed to have learned that with Jiraya's death, Itachi's speech, and his talk with Kushina and Kurama.
Very OOC for him to have wavered like that with so much sacrifices on his back.

Its was to give the NH fans their moment and yet all of Hinata lovers see it as a good thing, I mean give me a damn brake really, when ever she a big part all other development has to go back 50 steps, Hence why I hate Hinata she should have just stayed a sub plot. Or better yet not shown at all.

[Otaru]

I don't quite get what you are trying to say can you be more specific ?  

 

Well I'm french so maybe my english is not perfect lol

sorry for that

 

What I wanted to say is Sakura was afraid to see Naruto losing himself

She also feared of losing him, so she said to Naruto to stop it, and that she would take care of Sasuke

She wanted to keep him safe and to care care of things herself

 

That's the message

 

It's not that she wanted to save Sasuke for Naruto, she also want to save him for herself, not just for naruto.

I think it's not the feeling sakura wase expressing.

 

I just want us to translate right you see ?

Edited by Otaru, 25 May 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[FireFox]

 

Well I'm french so maybe my english is not perfect lol

sorry for that

 

What I wanted to say is Sakura was afraid to see Naruto losing himself

She also feared of losing him, so she said to Naruto to stop it, and that she would take care of Sasuke

She wanted to keep him safe and to care care of things herself

 

That's the message

 

It's not that she wanted to save Sasuke for Naruto, even if it's almost the same lol

 

I just want us to translate right you see ?

But that is exactly what that means i really don't understand how this means that she doesn't want to save Sasuke for Naruto its the same thing its just that its not directly said but indirectly if she didn't want to save him for Naruto then what's the point of her saying to him to stop when Naruto harm himself because he wants to bring Sasuke also , the way you say it its that she wants Naruto safe but she's not gonna save Sasuke for Naruto's sake when Sasuke is the reason why he pushed himself that much it doesn't make sense .

 

The message is clear she says she's gonna take care of Sasuke so he doesn't have to which means she wants do it for him also , don't forget that the reason for Naruto's state was Sasuke and his desire to bring him back which is the reason for why Sakura said that this is also evident by the flashback she had of Naruto's promise to bring Sasuke back plus she knows what Sasuke meant to Naruto before this she even explained this to Sai  . 

 

Also i'm not saying that she  wants to bring Sasuke back just for Naruto of course that she wants it also for T7 that was her wish but the focus in here was because of Naruto .

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 25 May 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[Gojira]

It was implied throughout the Sai arc that she wanted to save him for Naruto's sake everytime the subject of Sasuke was brought up instead of thinking about him she thought about Naruto and how he was feeling. Which even prompted Sai to make a comment about how she's gentle towards him