34 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

In epilogue we're shown Bolt defacing the Hokage's monument, just as Naruto did when he was a kid, then Naruto swooping down on him to stop him. Naruto then proceeds to try to reason with Bolt's percieved anger about being overlooked by his dad, explaining that Naruto is responsible for the whole village. Bolt doesn't appear to accept it, but there's nothing else shown.

 

I get the feeling that this is supposed to be some sort of light-hearted parallel for Naruto, that he's now paying for his antics when he was a child. Naruto's own behaviors are coming back to haunt him. 

 

But the more I think about it, the more like I feel their relationship dynamic is really wrong.

 

As a child, Naruto was lowest rung in Konoha. Worse than an orphan or a non-Leaf survivor of a conflict being raised in Konoha, or anything else you can think of, Naruto was abandoned and hated. He is shown alone, eating rotten food, being kicked out of stores (anime), being yelled at by Teuchi, and being openly ostracized by parents and subsequently their children. Kakashi doesn't even get involved in his life until he's 10 or so, and though the Third was around, what little he did clearly wasn't enough. 

 

Yes, Naruto lashed out, played pranks and defaced the monuments to get attention, but really it only made people hate him more. And he knew it. But true to Naruto's character, he just ignored it.

 

The idea that Bolt is just lashing out in the same way Naruto did diminishes the hell that Naruto lived through as a child. And making this the only snapshot we see of their father-son interactions is just ridiculous and OOC.

 

If Naruto had grown up with his parents, if Minato and Kushina had lived, there's no reason why he'd be such a trouble-maker. In fact, with his sunny personality, there's every reason to think he'd probably be the most popular kid.

 

So why isn't Bolt? Why is he resorting to his father's behaviors when his father was a kid...when his father grew up as the most hated person in the village!!!

 

By all rights, Bolt should be the most popular. If he acts out, people should be go easier on him, coddle him more, because he's the Kage's son. (It isn't shown, but it was implied, by Salad's response, that people think of him the way they did Naruto.) Bolt isn't hate. He isn't alone. He has a family that loves him and someone who cooks him meals and tucks him in at night. And he doesn't seem to have failed a year, like Naruto did.  

 

The dynamic shown between them is all wrong, because it implies that Bolt is going through the same thing Naruto went through when he was little. And he simply isn't.

 

It also implies that Naruto is making the same mistakes that were made in his childhood when he had an absent father. But that's completely wrong too. Naruto wasn't acting out because he had an absent father. He acted out because he was hated. 

 

Bolt and Naruto's dynamic, though it is set up for Bolt to have another story of his own as the rebooted Naruto, takes away from the really terrible life Naruto had growing up. Bolt is not the way I would expect Naruto's son to be, and their dynamic makes Naruto look like a father I would've never expected him to be. Especially since he didn't have one of his own. 

 

Did anyone else feel this way after reading the ending? That not only was Naruto not the type of Kage he wanted to be, but also, not they type of father you expected him to be either?

 

 

 

[rocci]

There's nothing wrong.
Kishi create conflict for new era project.
The conflict is absent father.

[sushi.]

I think Naruto's fatherhood reflects Kishi. Mangakas barely have freetime, and this was probably to show how much time he sacrificed for us. Because like Naruto has to take care of the whole village, Kishi has to take care of us readers. XD

 

That's the only way I can make sense of it. I don't agree with it, and it's so depressing to look at his son, even regardless of who his mother is.

[Hanabi]

storywise: naruto is now imparting the so called wisdom of his father minato to his son boruto

real life: we all know studio pierrot / wsj want money

Edited by Hanabi, 12 December 2014 - 04:07 PM.

[Nar123]

@rocci has a point.
This 700 chapter was nothing but a setup for the new era project. But tricksie is also right when she says its strange for Naruto to be treating bolt like this when he himself used to do it. Its OOC.

But hell what wasn't OOC on these last chapters? This ending was a mess. It should've wrapped up everything conclusively but instead we got a bait for part 3 at the expense of Naruto's character

Dumb

Edited by Nar123, 12 December 2014 - 04:09 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Adult Naruto is made out to be a dufus for not simply using shadowclones to be hokage AND spend time with Bolt. And before anyone says a shadow clone would be a cheap substitute, A) It's better than nothing, B) Naruto could simply have the shadowclones handle the hokage stuff while the real Naruto spent time with Bolt, C) I doubt Bolt would care.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

In epilogue we're shown Bolt defacing the Hokage's monument, just as Naruto did when he was a kid, then Naruto swooping down on him to stop him. Naruto then proceeds to try to reason with Bolt's percieved anger about being overlooked by his dad, explaining that Naruto is responsible for the whole village. Bolt doesn't appear to accept it, but there's nothing else shown.

 

I get the feeling that this is supposed to be some sort of light-hearted parallel for Naruto, that he's now paying for his antics when he was a child. Naruto's own behaviors are coming back to haunt him. 

 

But the more I think about it, the more like I feel their relationship dynamic is really wrong.

 

As a child, Naruto was lowest rung in Konoha. Worse than an orphan or a non-Leaf survivor of a conflict being raised in Konoha, or anything else you can think of, Naruto was abandoned and hated. He is shown alone, eating rotten food, being kicked out of stores (anime), being yelled at by Teuchi, and being openly ostracized by parents and subsequently their children. Kakashi doesn't even get involved in his life until he's 10 or so, and though the Third was around, what little he did clearly wasn't enough. 

 

Yes, Naruto lashed out, played pranks and defaced the monuments to get attention, but really it only made people hate him more. And he knew it. But true to Naruto's character, he just ignored it.

 

The idea that Bolt is just lashing out in the same way Naruto did diminishes the hell that Naruto lived through as a child. And making this the only snapshot we see of their father-son interactions is just ridiculous and OOC.

 

If Naruto had grown up with his parents, if Minato and Kushina had lived, there's no reason why he'd be such a trouble-maker. In fact, with his sunny personality, there's every reason to think he'd probably be the most popular kid.

 

So why isn't Bolt? Why is he resorting to his father's behaviors when his father was a kid...when his father grew up as the most hated person in the village!!!

 

By all rights, Bolt should be the most popular. If he acts out, people should be go easier on him, coddle him more, because he's the Kage's son. (It isn't shown, but it was implied, by Salad's response, that people think of him the way they did Naruto.) Bolt isn't hate. He isn't alone. He has a family that loves him and someone who cooks him meals and tucks him in at night. And he doesn't seem to have failed a year, like Naruto did.  

 

The dynamic shown between them is all wrong, because it implies that Bolt is going through the same thing Naruto went through when he was little. And he simply isn't.

 

It also implies that Naruto is making the same mistakes that were made in his childhood when he had an absent father. But that's completely wrong too. Naruto wasn't acting out because he had an absent father. He acted out because he was hated. 

 

Bolt and Naruto's dynamic, though it is set up for Bolt to have another story of his own as the rebooted Naruto, takes away from the really terrible life Naruto had growing up. Bolt is not the way I would expect Naruto's son to be, and their dynamic makes Naruto look like a father I would've never expected him to be. Especially since he didn't have one of his own. 

 

Did anyone else feel this way after reading the ending? That not only was Naruto not the type of Kage he wanted to be, but also, not they type of father you expected him to be either?

 

It also shows to me that Kishimoto-sensei is having Naruto's generation repeat the same mistakes the past generations made, considering that he doesn't feel happy even if he loves Hinata and married her, as if things aren't exactly paradise for him, which is why he is so busy as Hokage, even if he could still make time for his family and friends, just as Hiruzen did, and so did Minato. Plus it feels as if Naruto is creating the next Pain by treating Bolt as he does, and doesn't deal with it more properly...

 

All in all, it feels like a lazy means to reboot what Naruto went through, and just to rehash the story. Especially if it feels like Kishimoto-sensei is giving up since it felt to me like he sold out, especially when you think about how The Last has things go so out of character and all...

[questdrivencollie]

When I heard that Naruto would be portrayed as a father, I was hella excited. I expected family fluff, and if I had gotten that, I wouldn't have cared that it was NH. (I could just pretend it was NS instead, y'know.) But then I saw what we got, and it was like....man, such a disappointment. Heck, the Naruto I know would have participated in the prank. Or at least smiled.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

When I heard that Naruto would be portrayed as a father, I was hella excited. I expected family fluff, and if I had gotten that, I wouldn't have cared that it was NH. (I could just pretend it was NS instead, y'know.) But then I saw what we got, and it was like....man, such a disappointment. Heck, the Naruto I know would have participated in the prank. Or at least smiled.

 

That's how I feel too, since this is a guy who came up with stuff like the Sexy Jutsu, the Harem Jutsu, and the Reverse Harem Jutsu! Sure, he can be more mature, but not lose part of who he is...

[Win-chan]

I love everything you said here, Tricksie, and I've been thinking the exact same thing since I first saw those panels. It's absolutely ridiculous. Bolt's behavior mimicking Naruto's as a child not only shows that Naruto and Hinata are apparently such horrid parents that their young kid is acting exactly how Naruto acted when he was hated by everybody, but also that Kishimoto completely ditched one of the huge themes throughout the manga: that of the new generation surpassing the old. Bolt is acting exactly like Naruto did when he was an annoying brat that everyone (and much of the audience, myself included) hated. Seeing the way it's going, I can bet that Bolt doesn't do very well in school. I doubt he's very smart or strong. And I bet that Naruto will probably be disappointed in Bolt because he's not living up to his name as a descendant of Naruto and Minato. In addition to that, instead of having Naruto be able to have a successful and happy family whereas when he was a child and had no one, Kishi makes him a negligent father. It's just ridiculous. 

[Konohakitten]

In epilogue we're shown Bolt defacing the Hokage's monument, just as Naruto did when he was a kid, then Naruto swooping down on him to stop him. Naruto then proceeds to try to reason with Bolt's percieved anger about being overlooked by his dad, explaining that Naruto is responsible for the whole village. Bolt doesn't appear to accept it, but there's nothing else shown.

 

I get the feeling that this is supposed to be some sort of light-hearted parallel for Naruto, that he's now paying for his antics when he was a child. Naruto's own behaviors are coming back to haunt him. 

 

But the more I think about it, the more like I feel their relationship dynamic is really wrong.

 

As a child, Naruto was lowest rung in Konoha. Worse than an orphan or a non-Leaf survivor of a conflict being raised in Konoha, or anything else you can think of, Naruto was abandoned and hated. He is shown alone, eating rotten food, being kicked out of stores (anime), being yelled at by Teuchi, and being openly ostracized by parents and subsequently their children. Kakashi doesn't even get involved in his life until he's 10 or so, and though the Third was around, what little he did clearly wasn't enough. 

 

Yes, Naruto lashed out, played pranks and defaced the monuments to get attention, but really it only made people hate him more. And he knew it. But true to Naruto's character, he just ignored it.

 

The idea that Bolt is just lashing out in the same way Naruto did diminishes the hell that Naruto lived through as a child. And making this the only snapshot we see of their father-son interactions is just ridiculous and OOC.

 

If Naruto had grown up with his parents, if Minato and Kushina had lived, there's no reason why he'd be such a trouble-maker. In fact, with his sunny personality, there's every reason to think he'd probably be the most popular kid.

 

So why isn't Bolt? Why is he resorting to his father's behaviors when his father was a kid...when his father grew up as the most hated person in the village!!!

 

By all rights, Bolt should be the most popular. If he acts out, people should be go easier on him, coddle him more, because he's the Kage's son. (It isn't shown, but it was implied, by Salad's response, that people think of him the way they did Naruto.) Bolt isn't hate. He isn't alone. He has a family that loves him and someone who cooks him meals and tucks him in at night. And he doesn't seem to have failed a year, like Naruto did.  

 

The dynamic shown between them is all wrong, because it implies that Bolt is going through the same thing Naruto went through when he was little. And he simply isn't.

 

It also implies that Naruto is making the same mistakes that were made in his childhood when he had an absent father. But that's completely wrong too. Naruto wasn't acting out because he had an absent father. He acted out because he was hated. 

 

Bolt and Naruto's dynamic, though it is set up for Bolt to have another story of his own as the rebooted Naruto, takes away from the really terrible life Naruto had growing up. Bolt is not the way I would expect Naruto's son to be, and their dynamic makes Naruto look like a father I would've never expected him to be. Especially since he didn't have one of his own. 

 

Did anyone else feel this way after reading the ending? That not only was Naruto not the type of Kage he wanted to be, but also, not they type of father you expected him to be either?

 

 

 

 

Oh god, Bolt Now here's the thing, for starters you arent alone Tricksie I felt that the interactions between father and son were horrible, they made no sense, and they make even less sense after The Last. I don't like Bolt at all, and yes part of the reason is because he's NH spawn, but his attitude alone is off putting and I feel nothing for him or how he "feels" about his relationship with his father. At first glance it looks like Bolt is a spoiled brat that comes from an important family, kinda like Konohamaru. He was just a little brat who was always pulling pranks, but he had a good reason behind said pranks. All he ever wanted was to step out of his grandfathers shadow, and luckily he grew out of it his spoiled behavior, but Bolt's behavior is the result of being neglected, and that just contradicts the entire manga. 

 

Kishi created a story where history was always repeating itself. Naruto's generation was supposed to put a stop to it, but Kishi just ruined what he had been writing by having Bolt act out just like Naruto did. It's like what was the point then? Why was it always emphasized that Naruto would be the one to change everything when in the end he's left with a child that acts out like he did? Bolt should have been created to be his own character not just a carbon copy of his father. His looks scream that he's his fathers son, but there is no reason for him to have the same kind of struggles his father had growing up. I know Kishi tried to mix it up but still. This in turn really makes Naruto and Hinata look like horrible parents, especially when their kids are growing up in a time of peace. If anything Naruto should be able to spend even more time with his family since his position as Hokage is literally him just doing paperwork.

 

This is where The Last contradicts chapter 700. At the end of The Last we see Naruto coming home and his kids go to great him, and it's beyond clear that they love their father, and the same goes for how happy Naruto is to see them. The scene actually reminds me of how my two boys great their father who works 12-16 hours a day. They always charge him and wrap themselves around his legs and it's probably one the cutest things ever, it melts my heart every time. So the scene was executed really well but it doesn't match the Naruto and Bolt that we see in chp 700.  Now then Bolt and Himawari don't look much older then their versions in chapter 700 and we know that Naruto isn't yet Hokage because Kakashi's face is still on the mountain. So if anything maybe this is two years before Naruto becomes Hokage. So all the huge advances in technology probably all happened during Kakashi's term so in reality what is there really for Naruto to do? Why was that Gokage meeting so damn important that he couldn't properly handle the situation with his son. Maybe this is why Bolt is so upset because for most of his life Naruto has always been there but now he's actually busy with work, but that still doesn't justify that his behavior should have been exactly like his fathers.

 

Bolt would have been better off if he was portrayed as someone who wanted to grow up to be like his dad. All fathers are heros in their sons eye, so for me having him sneak into the meeting would have been better. I would have liked to see him interacting with the other kages as he slowly made his way towards Naruto's office. This would have been perfect for me, and then Naruto could laugh it off, and have a heart to heart talk with his son. In this instance Naruto could tell Bolt that family is everything and that he needs to be home taking care of his mom and sister since Naruto is busy protecting the whole village. This would give Bolt a purpose and a goal and then he could go home to do what his father asked him to do. Now we would have a little boy would wants nothing more than to protect those he loves just like his father does. Part of me is very sad that I care so little for Bolt. I was kinda hoping that he would be able to bring some kind of interest to this new take on Naruto, but it looks like just a lazy rehash of his fathers story. He had some potential, but it was squandered just like the last two chapters of the manga.

 

 

 

Oh and some NH fan posted a gif with Naruto's kids greeting him and they said "Look at this and just try to argue with me that Naruto is a horrible father haters!" I so wanted to say, ok but why couldn't we see that in the manga?!??

Edited by Konohakitten, 12 December 2014 - 08:08 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Oh god, Bolt Now here's the thing, for starters you arent alone Tricksie I felt that the interactions between father and son were horrible, they made no sense, and they make even less sense after The Last. I don't like Bolt at all, and yes part of the reason is because he's NH spawn, but his attitude alone is off putting and I feel nothing for him or how he "feels" about his relationship with his father. At first glance it looks like Bolt is a spoiled brat that comes from an important family, kinda like Konohamaru. He was just a little brat who was always pulling pranks, but he had a good reason behind said pranks. All he ever wanted was to step out of his grandfathers shadow, and luckily he grew out of it his spoiled behavior, but Bolt's behavior is the result of being neglected, ad that just contradicts the entire manga. 

 

Kishi created a story where history was always repeating itself. Naruto's generation was supposed to put a stop to it, but Kishi just ruined what he had been writing by having Bolt acting out just like Naruto did. It's like what was the point then? Why was it always emphasized that Naruto would be the one to change everything when in the end he's left with a child that acts out like he did? Bolt should have been created to be his own character not just a carbon copy of his father. His looks scream that he's his fathers son, but there is no reason for him to have the same kind of struggles his father had growing up. I know Kishi tried to mix it up but still. This in turn really makes Naruto and Hinata look like horrible parents, especially when their kids are growing up in a time of peace. If anything Naruto should be able to spend even more time with his family since his position as Hokage is literally him just doing paperwork.

 

This is where The Last contradicts chapter 700. At the end of The Last we see Naruto coming home and his kids go to great him, and it's beyond clear that they love their father, and the same goes for how happy Naruto is to see them. The scene actually reminds me of how my two boys great their father who works 12-16 hours a day. They always charge him and wrap themselves around his legs and it's probably one the cutest things ever. Now then Bolt and Himawari don't look much older then what they are in chapter 700 and we know that Naruto isn't yet Hokage because Kakashi's face is still on the mountain. So if anything maybe this is two years before Naruto becomes Hokage. So all the huge advances in technology probably all happened during Kakashi's term so in reality what is there really for Naruto to do? Why was that Gokage meeting so damn important that he couldn't properly handle the situation with his son. Maybe this is why Bolt is so upset because for most of his life Naruto has always been there but now he's actually busy with work, but that still doesn't justify that his behavior should have been exactly like his fathers.

 

Bolt would have been better off if he was portrayed as someone who wanted to grow up to be like his dad. All fathers are heros in their sons eye, so for me having him sneak into the meeting would have been better. I would have liked to see him interacting with the other kages as he slowly made his way towards Naruto's office. This would have been perfect for me, and then Naruto could laugh it off, have a talk with his son. In this instance Naruto could tell Bolt that family is everything that he needs to be home taking care of his mom and sister since Naruto is busy. This would give Bolt a purpose and a goal and then he could go home to do what his father asked him to do. Now we would have a little boy would wants nothing more than to protect those he loves just like his father does. Part of me is very sad that I care so little for Bolt. I was kinda hoping that he would be able to bring some kind of interest to this new take on Naruto, but it looks like just a lazy rehash of his fathers story. He had some potential, but it was squandered just like the last two chapters of the manga.

 

 

 

Oh and some NH fan posted a gif with Naruto's kids greeting him and they said "Look at this and just try to argue with me that Naruto is a horrible father haters!" I so wanted to say, ok but why couldn't we see that in the manga?!??

 

Honestly, you nailed it too, Kitten,e specially since you would know from experience since you're a mom! X-D

[Miss Soupy]

I think Naruto's fatherhood reflects Kishi. Mangakas barely have freetime, and this was probably to show how much time he sacrificed for us. Because like Naruto has to take care of the whole village, Kishi has to take care of us readers. XD

 

That's the only way I can make sense of it. I don't agree with it, and it's so depressing to look at his son, even regardless of who his mother is.

 

That's an interesting point. If Kishi is reflected in Naruto...Beginning Naruto is the Kishimoto who wanted to become a great mangaka. End Naruto is the Kishimoto who achieved that. He definitely lost some of himself along the way XD; Neglectful dad. Possibly not enjoying dream job as much as he expected. Depressing story.

 

Have no idea if that's really true but it's sad to think about @_@

[harry4e]

I don't think any of us expected Naruto be this type of father, I expected him to be a more social Hokage, someone who spent as much time sneeking out to the academy to see the kids learn, the Hokage who tried to escape paperwork to sneak off eat Ramen....No one expected a overworked boring pen pusher who spends all his time in the office and lets work overtake his entire life, someone who's own son acts out to get any attention from him.

 

I always envisioned the epilogue where Naruto's son would be painting the Hokage but because he wanted to follow in his fathers footsteps, not because he felt it was the only way he could get his father to pay attention to him.

 

The reason for this is likely because he wanted to create drama for the kids, but honestly all I think is how Naruto forgot the true reason he wanted to be Hokage, he wanted acknowledgement and a family, him becomming Hokage was nothing more than a symbol, of him achieving his dreams, but what we got instead what we see is how being Hokage put a strain on his true dream of having family.

 

To think Kishi talked about adding a third child to grow up being alone.

 

We don't need another manga repeating the same life lessons Naruto learnt, infact I'd hazard a guess that if we actually saw a happy son who was unaware of the outside world and was put in a situation that forced him out of his perfect world, there would be a bigger buzz surrounding the new series, as it is right now, more people seem to care about the absent fathers than the kids.

[Rabbit]

Naruto wants to break the cycle of hatred. Now his own son hates him. What an irony.

[Jenskott]

"But why Naruto does not use Kage Bunshin? So he can rule the village and spend time with his son"

 

"Because the writer/editor has deemed that Bolt must be/feel neglected in order to create drama that drives the history, and if he uses the logical, available in-story option, then there would be no drama"

 

"Oh. And why then he does not think of a best way to create drama instead of false dramatic tension?"

 

"Bad writing."

 

"Oh, right."

 

Seriously. I am SO sick of idiot plots (like Roger Erbert called them) where the plot is driven by false dramatic tension and where the story and inter-personal drama depends on the characters being unable to add two plus two, share a bit of information that they have no reason to hide, open up and talk about their feelings clearly or ponder about the facts and drawing a reasonable conclusion (that was one of the biggest troubles of Evangelion. The WHOLE inter-personal drama depended on the characters being unable to burst their bubbles or coming to the wrong/worst possible conclusion ALWAYS: "I want to kiss him but I do not want that he thinks that I am interested in him even though I AM and maybe he would want to become my boyfriend if he was aware of it" "She want to kiss me? She must hate me!". God, I got SO fed up with it).

 

It hit me when I read Michael Strogoff by Jules Verne. The main character has to traverse a land overriden with enemies, hiding his true identity. In a scene his mother meets him and recognizes him, but he has no option that pretending to be other person and refusing to recognize her. His mother start to get angsty, but then she puts two and two together (the country is being invaded; her son is Imperial courier; and he is going through conquered territory pretending being another person) and realizes his son must have a very good reason for this.

 

I was shocked because I half-expected that she spent several chapters grieving and sobbing, wondering why her son had done something like that or believing that he hated her, rather coming to a logical conclusion quickly, which led to advance the plot and introduce a more interesting and truer dramatic element. Then I realized that I had got SO used to find idiot plots and false dramatic tension in manga, anime and comic-books that I expected that they showed up and drove the plot.

[Aizen-Sama]

They're NH spawn. That's all.

[Radra]

I wont make any judgements on Naruto and bolt's relationship until I read the new era project.

 

 

700 was there just to show some tension between Naruto and Bolt. If I remember correctly, the new era project is supposed to focus on Naruto being a father.

 

Only time will tell.

[Gravenimage]

I don't give a crap about the new era project. Kishimoto ruined his manga and Pierot will ruin part 3 (mostly over glorifying Hinata as always) and Bolt will probably be pair with a girl similar to Hinata that eventually becomes another fan service character with big boobs. You seriously think I'm going to watch that??? Kishimoto needs to put this series to rest for good Pierot is only going to continue with the same crap of Hinata worthship.

[questdrivencollie]

Not interested in the new era project, personally. Normally I eat up parent/child stuff like candy, but if it's true that the new era project focuses on that all I can say is that it really grates on my nerves that I'm being offered what for me is a pleasurable indulgence in lieu of a proper ending.

And the 700 setup doesn't even make sense to me...biggest reason related to Naruto and Bolt being that Naruto's the last guy who would have to worry about not being able to spend time with his kids: he has shadow clones.

 

But I'll admit that perhaps the biggest reason I don't want the new era project is because I am bitter about what was done to the story in order to set up for it. Yeah, toss out the plot and themes, and offer what is essentially fan service (in the form of pairings and pairing offspring) in order to continue this cash cow indefinitely...yeah, screw that, count me out.

There is the tiniest possibility I would give the new era project a chance if it somehow fixes all that was wrong with the ending*, but I'm not holding my breath on that. 

 

*Not speaking of the NH and NH kids. I know that isn't going to change.

Edited by questdrivencollie, 21 January 2015 - 04:57 AM.