58 replies to this topic

[Asuma&TheCigarrete]

It's not a mistery that this manga has as a pillar the romantic side of the story.

Since the very begining we are dealing with a romantic square between Sasuke, Sakura, Naruto and Ino. Later we saw insinuations between Shikamaru and Temari and Kurenai and Asuma. It's a fact that the story is also a love story.

Just the way Kishi deals with romance is what bothers me a little.

Look at AsumaXKurenai. It's pretty obvious that she's with his baby in her belly, but we haven't saw any romantic interaction between them. Not even flash backs.

Similar avoidance happens with JiraiyaXTunade. I had the clear impression that if Jiraiya came back, they would work out, when i saw this page:

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

And now, he's killing Jiraiya. (I don't think i'lll ever forgive him for this. My favorite character ffs)

I'm not bashing the Author here... In fact he's like a hero to me, for creating sutch real characters. It is his strong point to be honest, that he create characters that you could find anywere in the streets, real human beeings.

Any views on this?

[Illjwamh]

It's an action story. Romance is not important and is therefore relegated to the back burner. Simple as that. We didn't see any romantic development between Asuma and Kurenai because quite frankly, it is irrelevant to the main storyline and would have just taken up time that could have (and in reality was) advanced the plot.

If you want romance in your manga, read Kare Kano or Fushigi Yuugi. If you're looking for it in an action title like Naruto, you will be sorely and perpetually disappointed.

[True]

This is a shonen manga. Romance is like a 5th element of it.

If we see any romantic development it will only be at the end most likely.

Kishimoto said he would try and incorporate romance into the manga.

If you want romance then go read a shojo

[Manda]

I agree with pretty much everyone here. Naruto is a Shounen manga. Romance is of little to no importance. If there are any pairing occuring within the story, however, they're usually pretty badly developed, or theres no development at all. Thats why in my opinion, Shounen fails at romance. Best thing would be to go read a good, and heart-warming Shoujo, like I always do.

However, the way Kishimoto has developed Naruto and Sakura's relationship is incredible - to me, at least. Its the first Shounen couple I've ever read thats actually had a base from the BEGINNING to work with.

Basically, if you're planning to add romance in your manga or story, either do it well or don't include any at all. Besides, in an action-oriented manga, the themes are mainly focussed on Teamwork and Friendship anyway. I even doubt any pairings might even happen, especially with the way the story is coming along at the moment.

Thats another reason why whenever I see the opposition claiming their ships are dead on becoming canon in the end I'm like its like, how the heck are you absolutely sure it'll happen!? There may not even be any pairings happening AT ALL. I mean, the only way we'll know for sure is if we can read inside Kishimoto's head, but thats impossible, lmao~ (unless if anyone of of us here has telepathic powers! )

I'm not really rooting for any pairings at the end. Granted, NaruSaku is my OTP, but I'm still having doubts. I'll continue shipping it anyway regardless, while enjoying my romance in Shoujo as well.

[Asuma&TheCigarrete]

Basically, if you're planning to add romance in your manga or story, either do it well or don't include any at all.

To be honest, i don't have any interest on romance on manga.... my view is something like this on the matter!

[Migz]

To be honest, i don't have any interest on romance on manga.... my view is something like this on the matter!

YA me either, i mean i don't go as far as screaming it into every ones face like most sausaku fans do.

[MagusKyros]

Naruto may be a shounen manga, but it has romance in it, and it has been somewhat lame as to how it's been executed.

Seinen manga, which is also highly action based (and more graphic to), deals with romance a lot better than shounen manga.

What I'm trying to say is, it doesn't matter if it's shounen or not, if you're using certain themes in the manga, then it should be properly executed.

[Manda]

To be honest, i don't have any interest on romance on manga.... my view is something like this on the matter!

Naruto may be a shounen manga, but it has romance in it, and it has been somewhat lame as to how it's been executed.

Oh I see. I get what you guys are trying to say. ;; I was just making a general statement. True romance still is a part of shounen just by a little bit, with the action being the main focus (actually, I've read previous Shounen manga works where romance was only slightly hinted without any pairings occuring canon-wise, or romance NOT being hinted at all while still having pairings occuring). Its a bit weird for my taste, thats why I like Shoujo and even Josei manga better sometimes. More interaction romance-wise, anyway. ;;

As for my take on how Kishimoto is ignoring the interaction... I never thought about that until I re-read your post again, Asuma&TheCigarrete. Come to think of it, I find that the way Kishimoto handled the Asuma/Kurenai coupling in the manga was too odd. Apparently, they've been smexing each other up off-screen without the readers knowing. That part is still really weird for me, and not to mention Asuma/Kurenai was actually one of my favorite pairings to boot until Kishi screwed it in canon.

I think it could be because since a lot of important things have been happening, such as the Akatsuki, Sasuke, Jiraiya vs. Pein, introduction of Naruto's parents, etc. that he may not even have the time to include romance interaction at all. =/ Kishimoto does have a lot more to cover, especially with even newer characters created in his manga. Romance could very well be quickly concluded towards the end. Like I said in my previous post, in Shounen action is always the main focuse.

[Zero BD]

C'mon guys, its shonen, trust me when I say that even though its aim is a general audience its still aimed mostly at YOUNG children. Trust me, I sat in a Tokyo convience store for an hour. Only kids bought Jump or otakus did. I could tell they were buy the key chain with anime figures hanging off their bags.

[psycho666]

well, i mean romance is a minor detail in this story, yes, but the pairings in the story are also fairly important (i mean it's practially what fandom is) im sure there are even people out there who only watch/read the series for the romance in it *cough* NaruHina fans *cough* but it's true that Naruto isn't a 'romantic story' and i think Kishi is just writing the romantic part of Naruto so it's actually realistic in the story, i mean this isn't some sappy romance novel where they meet three times and kiss in the rain plus the reason we didn't see anything of AsuxKure is because the whole thing was about Asuma dying not to reveal the couple, the fact that Asuma and Kurenai were seeing each other was just a small detail leading up to the tragedy.

[TheVileOne]

This is what fan fiction is for.

Though if you want more romantic interaction in shounen jump manga, read BUSUO RENKIN:

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Lots of romantic tension between the main hero and heroine. And ultimately they get together, make out, and become a couple before the end. You'll drown in the fluffy love, romance, and hot action. It's from the creator of Rurouni Kenshin which never once had Kaoru and Kenshin smoochy smoochy. This manga on the other hand has it.

[Wilson]

Well, this is a shounen manga, so romance is not all that important anyways. Besides, Kurenai and Asuma aren't all that important. Jiraiya and Tsunade are introduced late and obviously Kishi has other stuff for them to do. So yeah, it's not surprise he's avoiding it.

Because, if he named specific pairings, there wouldn't be any pairing war like what we're having now.

[TheVileOne]

Look at chapter 382. You could smell the romance in the air.

[Phylax]

Kishi is trying to make a good mixture between action and romance and he's doing it very good. Storys with too much romance turn out bad, because the action, which is essential for the development for the story, gets less important.

If romance was characteristic for Naruto the storyline would have been finished quite early. So I think it's okay as it is, as far as Naruto and sakura end up together

[Urazz]

Look at AsumaXKurenai. It's pretty obvious that she's with his baby in her belly, but we haven't saw any romantic interaction between them. Not even flash backs.

Actually, for a minor pairing based on minor characters, I think he handled it pretty well. There were minor hints that they were attracted to each other in my opinion and they could've easily gotten together during that 3 year time gap so it works out.

My only quibble will be how will he handle the more major pairing with the main character involved. Romance with the main character in a story has to be well developed if there is a love triangle involved and I don't think Kishimoto has disappointed us thus far. He has things set up for Naruto and Sakura to hook up quite easily if that is his goal.

[I s u z u]

Kishi might be afraid of his fanbases...

Afraid they'll kill him or won't like the manga for the romance xD

Though he might just be afraid he writes it badly...

But there were TONS of Sakura-->Sasuke in pt. 1, so it's weird.

I like his subtle romance, though. Gives me more to ponder.

[Unexpectations]

[quote name='TheVileOne' date='Dec 19 2007, 03:50 AM' post='150327']
This is what fan fiction is for.

Though if you want more romantic interaction in shounen jump manga, read BUSUO RENKIN:

OMFG!! I was gonna recommend Buso Renkin too! It's a shame there are no Buso Renkin fanfics... (Well there's like 27...)

[Lizardo221]

You all have hit on one of the main reasons why I read this story. I've read many works in school but this long tale has something I have yet to find in any other. This story is very realistic in the way that love and relationships are shown, no ideals or perfect scenarios but at the same time its still a fictional tale. You could call it a fictional biography.

No Eureka Seven love stories or mushy romance. The characters are real and must act as such. Asuma died and the poor toad sage had a tragic end. Naruto failed to stop Sasuke, Naruto is still of a low rank (no silly reason as of yet to change that), Gaara got caught. Its length and detail makes me think of it as a biography with literary devices.

Naruto is the hero yet at the same time he is a normal person, trying to make the world right. We are given very extensive detail of his life and yet their are plot devices and themes. This manga is like having your own life, in all its detail, told with a bit of a spin to it.

This in turn leads to why people point out "plot no jutsus", demanding that this story conform as best as it can to this given level of realism. Its hard to have such a mythical world maintain such reality.

So now returning to the theme of love, the question becomes of how important is love to Naruto, both for the character and for the story. Will the realism, the level of detail be ruined if love is but a minor part of the story? Can Naruto's character be properly portrayed without much of this theme? If you were to write Naruto's story, is love required?

My personal feel is that this theme will play a huge role in the end, but till then you all should not expect too much, just as reality would demand it to be so.

[Leney]

So now returning to the theme of love, the question becomes of how important is love to Naruto, both for the character and for the story. Will the realism, the level of detail be ruined if love is but a minor part of the story? Can Naruto's character be properly portrayed without much of this theme? If you were to write Naruto's story, is love required?

I can't see any way to write Naruto and not include love into the equation. Well, let me backtrack on that, I can't see any way to write Naruto, not include love and have it be good. I don't usually like shonen. I'm not interested in ball measuring contests and who has the most flashy and ridiculous attack, and who's the strongest. Naruto is not about these things, even though it does have them.

First off, the manga basically centers around the fact that Naruto loves Sasuke. This is kinda amazing (or completely justified depending on how you view it) when you realize where Naruto is coming from; For a long time, no one has ever shown Naruto love. It's crazy how he is able to find it in himself to love Sasuke so much.

It's also somewhat tragic, because I think with Sasuke, Naruto imprinted like a duckling. He's so crazy over getting Sasuke back as if he's in danger of losing something that can never be replaced.

While a lot of this is post timeskip, pre-timeskip Kishimoto repeatedly beat into readers that true strength comes from protecting the people you love. Naruto was able to defeat Gaara because he wanted to protect Sakura (and Sasuke).

Speaking of Gaara, he's also suffered so much because of love. His mother doesn't love him, she hates him so much that she wishes a horrible life upon him and names him after a perversion of love. The villagers treat him as a monster, his father treats him as a double edged sword, and his siblings are too scared to be in his presence. When you think about it, I think all Gaara wanted is something, someone to love. The one person he opened his heart to, the one person who treated him like the human he is, the person who told Gaara that love would heal the pain he feels, betrayed him. Gaara was utterly destroyed by this.

Gaara tries to kill Lee after he sees how much Gai loves his student. And one of my favorite parts in the manga ever, is the whole surgery process with Tsunade, Lee and Gai. It still chokes me up whenever I revisit it.

Jiraiya spoilers ahead:

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Hell, Jiraiya listed love--Tsunade never returning his feelings--as one of his major failures before he died. Also, see Tsunade and Jiraiya's conversation before he left to fight Pein. Look at how Tsunade promises to open up to Jiraiya if he returns from his battle. I believe that when the news drops, we're going to see Tsunade hurting because another man in her life died.

For me, what is the most telling of Naruto (the series) is when I read the pilot a while back. There was very little action, and there was only one offensive jutsu outside of henge. There was no ninja academy, no chuunin tournaments, no measures of strengths. The village elder feared Naruto would become just like his father (the Kyuubi) if he continued on the path he was on. Naruto's "mission" was to find a human friend.

Romantic love may be subtle so far, but its impact is still significant. I do not agree with people who think we won't see a definitive Naruto pairing by the end of the manga. I'm a NaruSaku fan because of the way Kishimoto has developed the pairing from the very beginning to where we are now. There's still a ways to go, but I'm pretty confident that that's where it is going to end up.

So, when I think about it, love is nowhere near a minor point in Naruto. I don't think Kishi ever intended it to be that way.

[Jenskott]

I can't see any way to write Naruto and not include love into the equation. Well, let me backtrack on that, I can't see any way to write Naruto, not include love and have it be good. I don't usually like shonen. I'm not interested in ball measuring contests and who has the most flashy and ridiculous attack, and who's the strongest. Naruto is not about these things, even though it does have them.

I'm afraid I disagree, Leney. I think Naruto is mostly about these things. Character development is welcome, and I don't think I'd like Naruto so much if it didn't exist (after all, comics are about characters. Like Kazuo Koike told: "if the characters are good, the comic is good"), but it isn't the focus of manga. I suppose it's a matter of different points of view.

Anyway, this thread is affected by a very common misconception in the fandom (not only Naruto fandom): shonen is always fights and shojo is always romance. Romance is inexistent in shonen. Nobody ever kisses in shonen.

I'm sorry, but it's false: shonen manga is comic targeted towards young boys, and shojo manga is comic targeted towards young girls. Period. Therefore, shonen and shojo can include any and all genders. The public it is targeted towards determines if it's shonen or shojo, not the kind of story narrated in it.

Yes, usually shonen manga features action and shojo manga is about romance, but there isn't a carved-in-stone rule stating: "Thou shall not include romance in a shonen manga".

There're a lot shonen mangas where the romance really leads the plot, and the action is fewer to non-existent: Urusei Yatsura, Maison Ikkoku (if you have read Ranma or Inu-Yasha, this is Takahashi's best series, by far. Believe me), Ah! My Goddess, Touch (Kishimoto was fan of this manga, by the way), Video Girl Ai or Kimagure Orange Road are good examples of it. They are important shonen mangas. And they ARE romance mangas.

Actually, I preffer reading a romantic shonen rather than a romantic shojo. I find them more realistic and less cheesy (please, don't lynch me for this ).

I'd mention some shojo mangas featuring plenty action and a lot of fights, but I have read few shojo. I can cite Ribbon no Kishi, Sailor Moon, Magic Knight Rayearth and X, at the very least.

So please, let's stop telling romance or kisses are unheard of in shonen (Did I imagine it in City Hunter, Ranma or Rurouni Kenshin, then?). It is untrue. Romance is secondary in fighting shonen mangas is a more accurate generalization. Or friendship love is more important in shonen manga than romantic love.

So... I don't think Kishimoto avoids romantic interaction. Simply, it's less important than advancing the plot and drawing good fighting scenes. But when it's necessary, he includes romance or hints of romance.