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Liking Hinata and hating Sakura


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#161 Gravenimage

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:00 PM

I find that Moe girls were great for advertisement, but horrible for real relationships. What I mean is, it is cute at first impression to have a moe character start out as one, but in the end people are alot more attracted to self-reliant and confident girls. Girls who are always shy, always pout, and always stay quiet and never speaking up gets boring and irritating. Sometimes it is annoying because the guy ends up feeling like he is pulling wait for himself and her when he would rather much pull the weight together. The moe girls tend to start out with everyone else making the first move.

Now can a girl be moe AND have self-confidence? Absolutly, but this is not what Hinata became. She is always too shy or too naive. She is always so apprehensive and always holding back even if she were capable of more. This becomes a huge problem at times. I mean is Naruto supposed to save her life everytime? Is Sakura always going to have to heal her? Is she always going to fail to the point that someone else has to take the blunt of it, but she receives all the credit? No. This is not the say that people don't have their limits, mind you, but Hinata never seems to be able to do anything and everything is a major limit to her. She couldn't protect Naruto at all, she couldn't take care of him when he needed it the most, and she never even could take of herself. Tasks that should be so simple for anyone else is such a huge challenge to her. Heck, even getting Naruto to notice her was a massive challenge and required Sakura, Shikamaru, Toneri, and a genjutsu to get Naruto to "see" her. That's pretty sad.

This isn't jsut for females either....some males are like this as well...heck, I used to be one of them, but that was because I never had confidence in myself. I didn't live in a household that supported my confidene and instead kept beating me down. I can't tell you how many times people kep telling me how much smarter than me they are or how much better they are all because they had something I didn't. And this ranged from minor things to major things.

I can understand starting from a low point and going higher, but to constantly stay in that low point and only doing JUST enough until you get what you want....it's pathetic. As soon as Naruto was hers, HInata just gave up on everything else. Her clan? No thanks, she has Naruto. Her training? Gave that up because since she has Naruto who is so strong, she doesn't need to be strong anymore. Her family? Nah, she can't argue with Naruto because she don't want to drive him away. She gave up everything because she got what she wanted and nothing else mattered. She is a satelite character

 

 As always awesome post James. Pierot knew of everything you spoke of Hinata. That's why they tried to make her into a tsundere (which they failed miserably). I've seen fan arts where Hinata is the one who hits Naruto and the fans love that. But if it's Sakura the one to hit him she gets hate. I can't stand all kitten hypocrisy.


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#162 Kagomaru

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:24 PM

 

 As always awesome post James. Pierot knew of everything you spoke of Hinata. That's why they tried to make her into a tsundere (which they failed miserably). I've seen fan arts where Hinata is the one who hits Naruto and the fans love that. But if it's Sakura the one to hit him she gets hate. I can't stand all kitten hypocrisy.

Are you being real with me?? :argh:

 

Didn't their base argument against NaruSaku always revolve around how Hinata is the better choice for Naruto because she doesn't "abuse" him with violence like Sakura, but it's now suddenly adorable if Hinata does it?  It just re-emphasizes that these supposed NaruHina fans not only could care less about Naruto's welfare, but that they are completely infatuated with a concept of Hinata that doesn't even exist in canon. It almost makes me wonder sometimes if these Hinata fanboys are actually Sakura fans who are in a repressed state of denial. :ermm:


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#163 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:23 PM

Are you being real with me?? :argh:
 
Didn't their base argument against NaruSaku always revolve around how Hinata is the better choice for Naruto because she doesn't "abuse" him with violence like Sakura, but it's now suddenly adorable if Hinata does it?  It just re-emphasizes that these supposed NaruHina fans not only could care less about Naruto's welfare, but that they are completely infatuated with a concept of Hinata that doesn't even exist in canon. It almost makes me wonder sometimes if these Hinata fanboys are actually Sakura fans who are in a repressed state of denial. :ermm:


Tell me about it! And I've seen fan art also of Hinata being the angry one in a NaruHina family pic, when it just doesn't work. What you said likely has weight. Why else try to (and fail) to make Hinata a tsundere when she's more of a moe type?

#164 James S Cassidy

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 05:38 PM

Are you being real with me?? :argh:

 

Didn't their base argument against NaruSaku always revolve around how Hinata is the better choice for Naruto because she doesn't "abuse" him with violence like Sakura, but it's now suddenly adorable if Hinata does it?  It just re-emphasizes that these supposed NaruHina fans not only could care less about Naruto's welfare, but that they are completely infatuated with a concept of Hinata that doesn't even exist in canon. It almost makes me wonder sometimes if these Hinata fanboys are actually Sakura fans who are in a repressed state of denial. :ermm:

It's always been like this even before the Naruto ending.

Anyone remember Road to Ninja when Hinata was a complete kitten that treated Naruto like kitten and believed that she was entitled to Naruto and if anyone else even looked at him she would kill them? Yeah, they LOVE that Hinata. They think she is an amazing badass and she is such a perfect woman. So obviously there is massive bias. RtN HInata and the Real Hinata are both perfect and Sakura is a kitten in both forms. This is how you know the bias is real. Ask them if they think RtN Hinata is perfect rendition to Hinata...and if they say yes...they are so biased.

I still find it funny that they say Hinata can beat Sakura, but everytime I see Hinata in the show....she is in the hospital and got her ass kicked.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 15 December 2017 - 12:51 AM.

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#165 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:20 PM

I find that Moe girls were great for advertisement, but horrible for real relationships. What I mean is, it is cute at first impression to have a moe character start out as one, but in the end people are alot more attracted to self-reliant and confident girls. Girls who are always shy, always pout, and always stay quiet and never speaking up gets boring and irritating. Sometimes it is annoying because the guy ends up feeling like he is pulling weight for himself and her when he would rather much pull the weight together. The moe girls tend to start out with everyone else making the first move.

Now can a girl be moe AND have self-confidence? Absolutly, but this is not what Hinata became. She is always too shy or too naive. She is always so apprehensive and always holding back even if she were capable of more. This becomes a huge problem at times. I mean is Naruto supposed to save her life everytime? Is Sakura always going to have to heal her? Is she always going to fail to the point that someone else has to take the blunt of it, but she receives all the credit? No. This is not the say that people don't have their limits, mind you, but Hinata never seems to be able to do anything and everything is a major limit to her. She couldn't protect Naruto at all, she couldn't take care of him when he needed it the most, and she never even could take of herself. Tasks that should be so simple for anyone else is such a huge challenge to her. Heck, even getting Naruto to notice her was a massive challenge and required Sakura, Shikamaru, Toneri, and a genjutsu to get Naruto to "see" her. That's pretty sad.

This isn't jsut for females either....some males are like this as well...heck, I used to be one of them, but that was because I never had confidence in myself. I didn't live in a household that supported my confidene and instead kept beating me down. I can't tell you how many times people kep telling me how much smarter than me they are or how much better they are all because they had something I didn't. And this ranged from minor things to major things.

I can understand starting from a low point and going higher, but to constantly stay in that low point and only doing JUST enough until you get what you want....it's pathetic. As soon as Naruto was hers, HInata just gave up on everything else. Her clan? No thanks, she has Naruto. Her training? Gave that up because since she has Naruto who is so strong, she doesn't need to be strong anymore. Her family? Nah, she can't argue with Naruto because she don't want to drive him away. She gave up everything because she got what she wanted and nothing else mattered. She is a satelite character

And even when Konoha is under attack, does Hinatatas try to help evacuate civilians? Does she try to help the other kunoichi in fighting back / defending others? Does she try to get her own children to safety? No, she does NONE of that. Instead, the only thing on her mind is finding "N-N-Naruto-kun!", and only tries to fight when the enemy gets in her way of doing that, only to be taken out with one shot again. It's pathetic AND disgusting.


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#166 Phantom_999

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:33 PM

Are you being real with me?? :argh:
 
Didn't their base argument against NaruSaku always revolve around how Hinata is the better choice for Naruto because she doesn't "abuse" him with violence like Sakura, but it's now suddenly adorable if Hinata does it?  It just re-emphasizes that these supposed NaruHina fans not only could care less about Naruto's welfare, but that they are completely infatuated with a concept of Hinata that doesn't even exist in canon. It almost makes me wonder sometimes if these Hinata fanboys are actually Sakura fans who are in a repressed state of denial. :ermm:

 
I WISH we could say we are pulling your leg but.............. no. there ARE idiots like that have such a blatant fetish love for Hinata that Hinata is the sole exception for anything as long as she is the one to get the p-kitten of Naruto who is their self insert. Or for girls, they imagine Hinata as their self insert and Naruto is the guy they could never have or something. I'm not exaggerating

Now am I saying ALL fans are like this? No, but it takes a special and delusional type of stupid or wish fulfillment to have THAT much of a double standard where ONE character can do no wrong no matter what but others are bashed and wished to be burned at the stake for the slightest personal provocation. Again not exaggerating 

Edited by Phantom_999, 11 December 2017 - 06:50 AM.

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#167 DrK

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:49 PM

I can understand starting from a low point and going higher, but to constantly stay in that low point and only doing JUST enough until you get what you want....it's pathetic. As soon as Naruto was hers, HInata just gave up on everything else. Her clan? No thanks, she has Naruto. Her training? Gave that up because since she has Naruto who is so strong, she doesn't need to be strong anymore. Her family? Nah, she can't argue with Naruto because she don't want to drive him away. She gave up everything because she got what she wanted and nothing else mattered. She is a satelite character

Hinata can bear his children, but she can't make Naruto a man. She just exists.


Edited by DrK, 09 December 2017 - 09:50 PM.


#168 RulesofNature

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:19 PM

 

Not to mention why did that at the last (pun intended) minute when the original series ended. That was the worst stupid marketing mistake as well. And I didn't even study marketing business to realize that was stupid.

 

The thing I think about is that when a piece of media tries to mislead the reader, there should be a point to it. For instance, sometimes this plays with the role of the narrative in shaping the audience's experience. Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans made sure that the audience understood why the protagonists did the things they did even though those behaviors ended up being self-destructive. Lolita was meant to criticize the idea of a Freudian excuse, while the video game Nier has it's hero ended up destroying humanity because he didn't care to think about the bigger picture as he only focused on getting his daughter/little sister back. In Dune Paul's actions inspire a Freman holy war, while in Fight Club Tyler Durden stops being the messiah of masculinity and our savior from capitalism and instead turns his men into the faceless drones he once railed against.

 

So, what's the point of making Hinata the heroine at the very end? Why is she worthy of that title? If it's because she always supported Naruto even before his character development set in, then that's bunk because she never did anything to help him with his loneliness as a child. And if it's because Naruto eventually sticks his wee-wee in her to make babies, then that comes with a whole bunch of unsettling implications. That the heroine is only there to be romantically involved with the hero, and the actions of other female characters such as Sakura mean nothing regarding their role in the story. After all, Kishi said that Sakura was only supposed to be as important as Kiba. Everything Sakura did and went through meant nothing, as her entire existence is a red herring to steer people away from Hinata and her contributions to the story are discarded.

 

And let's not forget that Kishi COULD have averted this by utilizing Hinata better within his story. Make her take a more active role. But he didn't, he instead developed the relationship between Naruto and Sakura whenever push came to shove. The whole red herring idea is ridiculous from a story telling perspective because it makes no sense. This is like Mirage being added to Macross Delta because people expect Macross to have a love triangle, but whereas Hayate ended up with the girl the show focused on him getting with Naruto went the opposite direction. All those NaruSaku moments beforehand were rendered moot, just filler.


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#169 DrK

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:25 PM

All those NaruSaku moments beforehand were rendered moot, just filler.

They're worse than moot. They establish things about the characters that end up being false, making the story ridiculous.



#170 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:56 PM

Before the end:

Naruto: -talks about how he likes Sakura, gets upset about the girl he likes being in love with another guy and being hurt by him. Makes huge promise to bring guy back for girl.

-keeps telling people he likes that girl, keeps acting like he likes her.

In the last "Naruto" movie:
Naruto: lol joking none of that was legit.

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                                         Pls shame me for procrastinating.  :argh: 


#171 AHK

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 04:43 AM

It's OK, AHK, Analyzer's been banned, but yeah, she could so be like that. @_@


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Why?!

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#172 Phantom_999

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 05:21 AM

Derock :hehehe:


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#173 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 05:37 AM

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Why?!

 

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#174 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 05:46 AM

Rip AHK's source of amusement.

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                                         Pls shame me for procrastinating.  :argh: 


#175 Derock

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:10 AM

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Why?!

 

Because of annoying reasons. Sorry my friend, the person was the pest everyone was trying to get rid of.  If you want some salt, I will gladly provide you with it, just don't die from sodium. :P


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#176 RulesofNature

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:43 PM

It's always been like this even before the Naruto ending.

Anyone remember Road to Ninja when Naruto was a complete kitten that treated Naruto like kitten and believed that she was entitled to Naruto and if anyone else even looked at him she would kill them? Yeah, they LOVE that Hinata. They think she is amazing badass and she is such a perfect woman. So obviously there is massive bias. RtN HInata and the Real Hinata are both perfect and Sakura is a kitten in both forms. This is how you know the bias is real. Ask them if they think RtN Hinata is perfect rendition to Hinata...and if they say yes...they are so biased.

I still find it funny that they say Hinata can beat Sakura, but everytime I see Hinata in the show....she is in the hospital and got her ass kicked.

 

They are in love with the idea of Hinata rather than the reality of her actual character.


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#177 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 08:02 PM

 

They are in love with the idea of Hinata rather than the reality of her actual character.

 

Couldn'ta said it better myself, man.



#178 AHK

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 03:03 AM

Derock had all he could stands 'til he could stands no more!

I could have stood a bit more though :(

Rip AHK's source of amusement.

For real! There was never a dull moment with Analyzer around.

Because of annoying reasons. Sorry my friend, the person was the pest everyone was trying to get rid of. If you want some salt, I will gladly provide you with it, just don't die from sodium. :P

But who will protect the guest readers from our vicious lies now that our resident fact checker is gone?

HA, don’t tempt me, my salt content would put the Dead Sea to shame.

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#179 rocci

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:40 PM

 
They are in love with the idea of Hinata rather than the reality of her actual character.

No wonder her fan think she is really strong.

#180 James S Cassidy

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:52 AM

 

They are in love with the idea of Hinata rather than the reality of her actual character.

But what is that idea? Is she the sweet shy girl or the punk ass kitten ho? It can't be both ways.

By the way, Pro-enders think RtN HInata got with RtN Menma even though RtN is supposed to be "opposite world" and despite the OVA that was given with the movie had Menma and Sakura sating with Sasuke trying to hit on Hinata.

This reminds me of DC where people keep saying that Superman NEEDS to be with Lois Lane and that is the only person he can be with, but they are okay with Batman being with any woman including Catwoman and Wonder Woman.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 15 December 2017 - 12:55 AM.

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