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Worst Father: Naruto or Sasuke?


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#41 James S Cassidy

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 01:31 AM

it doesn't matter if Sasuke wanted a family or not, he should take responsibility since he made someone pregnant. Even though yes Kidhimoto forced him to marry Sakura and have a child, you cannot use that argument to say he's not a bad person or a bad father. We don't tell real dads they don't suck because they never wanted kids. It's like I said before, if you want to judge Sasuke as a person, you have to treat him as one. Rock Lee is fortunately not relevant enough to be sacrificed for retcon.

This a dude who has NEVER taken responsibility for anything he has done. Why? Because Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi wouldn't LET him take responsibility. He kills people? Nope.

What did you expect? If you let someone get away with no consequences, then they will live like they can do anything and get away with it.

If anyone is to blame for Sasuke's behavior, it is Naruto HIMSELF who did it. Naruto REFUSED to let Sasuke take responsibility for anything he has done.

So, Naruto is a double whammy. Not only is he a horrible husband and father, but he is also a horrible friend and mentor. The new generation is kittened.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 September 2015 - 01:37 AM.

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#42 sushi.

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 01:39 AM

Nonsense. Just because Sasuke doesn't take responsibility, doesn't mean he has none. If he doesn't take responsibilities he has, we shouldn't excuse it and we should judge him justly. It doesn't matter if Kishi or his characters don't. Naruto is bad too, but Sasuke's flaws are not his fault.

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#43 James S Cassidy

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:28 AM

Nonsense. Just because Sasuke doesn't take responsibility, doesn't mean he has none. If he doesn't take responsibilities he has, we shouldn't excuse it and we should judge him justly. It doesn't matter if Kishi or his characters don't. Naruto is bad too, but Sasuke's flaws are not his fault.

They say it takes a village to raise a child. If anything, it is everyone's responsibilities for his behavior. Keep in mind that Naruto's world is a world without consequences now. In reality, if a man did what Sasuke did to his family...they would leave him. Not fall back in love with him and say how awesome he is. If a guy did what Naruto does to his kids, their might be family issues or even a divorce in it and noone would blame the kids because the father is horrible to them.

That is the problem within itself. People believe that they should be together regardless of how bad they are.

It is as Miyazaki said, people keep writing these ridiculous stories because they don't pay attention to real life situations. But since Orochimaru can continue with Human experimentation and get away with it, then I guess being a bad father is not so bad.

Remember that we have to follow by Naruto's world and Naruto's rules. We can't put our own logic into this story because right off bat Sasuke and Sakura shouldn't exist at all based on the principle that any REAL girl wouldn't stay with a man who attempts to kill her and if she did, they would have her head examined for stockholm syndrome.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 September 2015 - 02:31 AM.

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#44 Yojeveka

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:34 AM

Of course he has responsibilities, no one denies that. He just doesn't care about them. Never had, never will. That's why he's such a bad friend, father and person.


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#45 Gravenimage

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 04:34 AM

Both.


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#46 starlitestarbrite

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:11 AM

naruto, and sasuke are both horrible fathers' just like sakura, and hinata are both horrible mothers'.



#47 sushi.

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 12:33 PM

They say it takes a village to raise a child. If anything, it is everyone's responsibilities for his behavior. Keep in mind that Naruto's world is a world without consequences now. In reality, if a man did what Sasuke did to his family...they would leave him. Not fall back in love with him and say how awesome he is. If a guy did what Naruto does to his kids, their might be family issues or even a divorce in it and noone would blame the kids because the father is horrible to them.

That is the problem within itself. People believe that they should be together regardless of how bad they are.

It is as Miyazaki said, people keep writing these ridiculous stories because they don't pay attention to real life situations. But since Orochimaru can continue with Human experimentation and get away with it, then I guess being a bad father is not so bad.

Remember that we have to follow by Naruto's world and Naruto's rules. We can't put our own logic into this story because right off bat Sasuke and Sakura shouldn't exist at all based on the principle that any REAL girl wouldn't stay with a man who attempts to kill her and if she did, they would have her head examined for stockholm syndrome.

What is your point when you say Naruto is a world without consequences? That in the real world, he would be deemed as terrible? How is that an argument againt mine? I know that it's true, and like I said it changes nothing. That doesn't mean I want to lie and say Sasuke is not a bad father, because at least he doesn't perform human experiments? The question isn't is he or is he not, it's do we understand why he is? Yes, Sasuke is a traumatized person and he is bad. We know his story and understand why, and we should neither demonize or excuse him.

 

If Sasuke was a child, I agree that his behaviour would've been the others' responsibility. Now he is adult and we have to treat him like one, no matter the sad past or lack of consequences in his world.


Edited by sushi., 17 September 2015 - 12:43 PM.

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#48 AHK

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 06:46 PM

That defense is weak because if we are to judge the heart of the characters, we have to judge them as people. Even if Sasuke was never meant to make a new family, we have to judge his actions from the perspective of their universe. Not from what we know him as, a product made of paper and pen.

 

How do you think Sasuke is a fascist terrorist? Sasuke is victim of Konoha's fascist policy, and his character is very anti-fascist, and not much of a terrorist either. I do not condone all of his actions and I'm not saying he has a heart of gold, but the words you just threw at him are the opposite of what he is.

How does Sasuke not qualify as a terrorist? He willingly joined a terrorist organization, and pursued goals with them. He is in part responsible for tens of thousands of death, and his ideals at the end of the story are those of fascism. What he was trying to do was incredibly fascist.


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Posted 17 September 2015 - 09:09 PM

They both suck as dads.


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Posted 17 September 2015 - 09:40 PM

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#51 Narufan85

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 10:20 PM

This a dude who has NEVER taken responsibility for anything he has done. Why? Because Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi wouldn't LET him take responsibility. He kills people? Nope.

What did you expect? If you let someone get away with no consequences, then they will live like they can do anything and get away with it.

If anyone is to blame for Sasuke's behavior, it is Naruto HIMSELF who did it. Naruto REFUSED to let Sasuke take responsibility for anything he has done.

So, Naruto is a double whammy. Not only is he a horrible husband and father, but he is also a horrible friend and mentor. The new generation is kittened.

 

Whether or not Sasuke wanted kids is irrelevant. He has a child; he is responsible for his own parenting. Trying to pawn his blame off on Naruto and others is suspect.



#52 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 07:30 AM

 

Whether or not Sasuke wanted kids is irrelevant. He has a child; he is responsible for his own parenting. Trying to pawn his blame off on Naruto and others is suspect.

.........*looks up and thinks*

Okay, so what is his punishment for being a bad father? Being called a bad father? He doesn't care. He is SUPPOSED to be responsible for his child, but....not like him not caring about her is just going to "tear him apart."

Like I said. SASUKE.....DOESN'T.....CARE. THIS IS A MAN WHO HAS HAD NO CONSEQUENCES TO ANYTHING HE HAS DONE OR EVER WILL DO. He basically it always forgiven by some lame ass excuse. You know why? Because everyone who had the power to gives him punishment and show him how things are had no balls to actually punish him.

No, it may not be Naruto's fault for what Sasuke has done or what he does with his family. HOWEVER, if he is a true friend as he says he is he has THE RESPONSIBILITY to tell Sasuke off when he is not doing what he needs to be done. And seeing how he sent Sasuke on this "mission that accomplished nothing" it was HIS RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that his family is well taken care of in his absence. Not just as a Hokage, but as his best friend.

Those who have the power to do something and the take no action, then they also take the blame for the people getting away with their indiscretions. So if a person murders another person, who is responsible for the punishment he gets for that misdeed?

Of course, we talk how Sasuke should be held for his own actions, but then blame none other than Itachi for how messed up Sasuke is. Pick one, either Sasuke is held accountable for his own actions or he isn't. You can't do both.

So if Sasuke is a bad father then why hasn't:
- Sakura left him and never looked back? (Instead Sakura and Salad just "ooh" and "awww" him calling him amazing?)
- Naruto told Sasuke off for being a bad father. (Maybe because he would be a hypocrite in a certain way.)
- Anyone told Sasuke off and asked him "Sasuke, what the kitten?" (Maybe because they are scared of "Naruto-kun")
- Actually gave him punishment for anything he has done ever. (Because Naruto is a pussy in the end.)

Would you let your best friend date a known rapist because "it is not your fault?" Would you let people step all over your friends because "it was their decision?" Then you should never stick up for anyone ever again if you feel it is not your responsibility to look after the people you care about whether it be your own family or friend.

I can't blame Naruto for what Sasuke does, but I CAN blame Naruto for not doing anything about it. Especially when he calls himself "a good friend" to them. He should have been the first one to stand up and say to Sasuke "You need to do better."

WHY CAN'T SASUKE ACTUALLY BE PUNISHED FOR HIS ISSUES?

You all think i am trying to excuse him. Instead I am telling you why he gets away with it and why the idea of Sasuke ever being a "good father" will never be realized because he will never know consequences. He could chop Salad's arm off for stealing a cookie and people will not saying anything against it because "Sasuke-kun is the greatest." Someone will make some excuse how he shouldn't be punished and Sakura should NEVER leave him because "he is misunderstood." So he gets away with it and he will never learn anything.

Sauske is a bad father because no one taught him how to be a good father. Meanwhile, Naruto had father figures like Iruka, Jiraiya, and even his own parents showed him what it means to be a loving parent, but he still isn't one. This is why Naruto can, in some way, be seen as worse than Sasuke. Sasuke has never had someone truly show him the way....what is Naruto's excuse?

 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 September 2015 - 10:16 AM.

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#53 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 08:09 AM

Exactly, James.

As I have said multiple times, Sasuke (or even the Uchiha Clan in general, including Madara) never having to take responsibility for any of his actions throughout the entire story is one of the biggest peeves I have with the ending. Sasuke got off easier than even the "affluenza" kid because at least that kid was arrested, charged, and taken to court to begin with whereas Sasuke never had anything happen to him in the slightest that would make him rethink any of his choices. By not doing so, all it does for such people is empower them by making them belief those choices were right, even though it is obvious to anyone and everyone that they weren't, and they'll continue to keep making such choices under the belief that they'll be allowed to keep getting away with them, regardless of the results.

Sure, Itachi screwed with Sasuke's mind with the Tsukuyomi torture scene, but he never took away Sasuke's free will. Sasuke still had many choices he could have made after the massacre; seek counseling, make friends, ask for help, etc.. He chose to walk the path of never-ending loner vengeance, to betray Konoha for Orochimaru, etc., and even after Itachi was dead, Sasuke chose to continue down that path of "vengeance" by simply taking the bulls-eye off of Itachi and moving it on Danzo and Konoha itself. Nobody forced him to, nobody tricked him into doing it, he knowingly and willingly chose to do so..

And like you said, others also could have and should have tried a lot harder to get through to Sasuke, especially the "good friend", Naruto, while everyone and everything except Sasuke gets blamed (in-universe and by rabid fans); first it's Itachi, then it's Orochimaru, then it's Danzo, then it's Obito, then it's the system itself. While the whole deal with the system was actually correct, rather than actually make it good and something possibly interesting, instead, it just feels like just another blatant excuse to shift any and all blame for Sasuke's choices off of him and absolve him of any responsibility. As soon as Sasuke had tried to murder Naruto on the hospital roof, he should have been arrested/committed, but instead, all Kakashi does is tie him up, scold him, and try to piss-poorly "empathize" with Sasuke on the most basic parallels (being the "genius", the "loner", and such) before making him sit in a corner to think about what he's done, like Kakashi was a parent who caught a child sneaking a cookie just before dinner, so not letting him have dessert or something, all while saying, "I know what it's like...".


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#54 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 10:39 AM

Exactly, James.

As I have said multiple times, Sasuke (or even the Uchiha Clan in general, including Madara) never having to take responsibility for any of his actions throughout the entire story is one of the biggest peeves I have with the ending. Sasuke got off easier than even the "affluenza" kid because at least that kid was arrested, charged, and taken to court to begin with whereas Sasuke never had anything happen to him in the slightest that would make him rethink any of his choices. By not doing so, all it does for such people is empower them by making them belief those choices were right, even though it is obvious to anyone and everyone that they weren't, and they'll continue to keep making such choices under the belief that they'll be allowed to keep getting away with them, regardless of the results.

Sure, Itachi screwed with Sasuke's mind with the Tsukuyomi torture scene, but he never took away Sasuke's free will. Sasuke still had many choices he could have made after the massacre; seek counseling, make friends, ask for help, etc.. He chose to walk the path of never-ending loner vengeance, to betray Konoha for Orochimaru, etc., and even after Itachi was dead, Sasuke chose to continue down that path of "vengeance" by simply taking the bulls-eye off of Itachi and moving it on Danzo and Konoha itself. Nobody forced him to, nobody tricked him into doing it, he knowingly and willingly chose to do so..

And like you said, others also could have and should have tried a lot harder to get through to Sasuke, especially the "good friend", Naruto, while everyone and everything except Sasuke gets blamed (in-universe and by rabid fans); first it's Itachi, then it's Orochimaru, then it's Danzo, then it's Obito, then it's the system itself. While the whole deal with the system was actually correct, rather than actually make it good and something possibly interesting, instead, it just feels like just another blatant excuse to shift any and all blame for Sasuke's choices off of him and absolve him of any responsibility. As soon as Sasuke had tried to murder Naruto on the hospital roof, he should have been arrested/committed, but instead, all Kakashi does is tie him up, scold him, and try to piss-poorly "empathize" with Sasuke on the most basic parallels (being the "genius", the "loner", and such) before making him sit in a corner to think about what he's done, like Kakashi was a parent who caught a child sneaking a cookie just before dinner, so not letting him have dessert or something, all while saying, "I know what it's like...".

Thank you. At least one person gets it.

What's worse? A person who doesn't know nay better and thus doesn't know how to handle the situation or a person who SHOULD know better and doesn't?


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#55 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 12:15 PM

.........*looks up and thinks*

Okay, so what is his punishment for being a bad father? Being called a bad father? He doesn't care. He is SUPPOSED to be responsible for his child, but....not like him not caring about her is just going to "tear him apart."

Like I said. SASUKE.....DOESN'T.....CARE. THIS IS A MAN WHO HAS HAD NO CONSEQUENCES TO ANYTHING HE HAS DONE OR EVER WILL DO. He basically it always forgiven by some lame ass excuse. You know why? Because everyone who had the power to gives him punishment and show him how things are had no balls to actually punish him.

No, it may not be Naruto's fault for what Sasuke has done or what he does with his family. HOWEVER, if he is a true friend as he says he is he has THE RESPONSIBILITY to tell Sasuke off when he is not doing what he needs to be done. And seeing how he sent Sasuke on this "mission that accomplished nothing" it was HIS RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that his family is well taken care of in his absence. Not just as a Hokage, but as his best friend.

Those who have the power to do something and the take no action, then they also take the blame for the people getting away with their indiscretions. So if a person murders another person, who is responsible for the punishment he gets for that misdeed?

Of course, we talk how Sasuke should be held for his own actions, but then blame none other than Itachi for how messed up Sasuke is. Pick one, either Sasuke is held accountable for his own actions or he isn't. You can't do both.

So if Sasuke is a bad father then why hasn't:
- Sakura left him and never looked back? (Instead Sakura and Salad just "ooh" and "awww" him calling him amazing?)
- Naruto told Sasuke off for being a bad father. (Maybe because he would be a hypocrite in a certain way.)
- Anyone told Sasuke off and asked him "Sasuke, what the kitten?" (Maybe because they are scared of "Naruto-kun")
- Actually gave him punishment for anything he has done ever. (Because Naruto is a pussy in the end.)

Would you let your best friend date a known rapist because "it is not your fault?" Would you let people step all over your friends because "it was their decision?" Then you should never stick up for anyone ever again if you feel it is not your responsibility to look after the people you care about whether it be your own family or friend.

I can't blame Naruto for what Sasuke does, but I CAN blame Naruto for not doing anything about it. Especially when he calls himself "a good friend" to them. He should have been the first one to stand up and say to Sasuke "You need to do better."

WHY CAN'T SASUKE ACTUALLY BE PUNISHED FOR HIS ISSUES?

You all think i am trying to excuse him. Instead I am telling you why he gets away with it and why the idea of Sasuke ever being a "good father" will never be realized because he will never know consequences. He could chop Salad's arm off for stealing a cookie and people will not saying anything against it because "Sasuke-kun is the greatest." Someone will make some excuse how he shouldn't be punished and Sakura should NEVER leave him because "he is misunderstood." So he gets away with it and he will never learn anything.

Sauske is a bad father because no one taught him how to be a good father. Meanwhile, Naruto had father figures like Iruka, Jiraiya, and even his own parents showed him what it means to be a loving parent, but he still isn't one. This is why Naruto can, in some way, be seen as worse than Sasuke. Sasuke has never had someone truly show him the way....what is Naruto's excuse?

 

 

Ah okay I see what you're saying James. You don't believe discussing who is a bad father since there are no negative consequences of it, no one tried preventing or stopping it etc. Yes it's it's completely true, but what we are talking about and judging are the actions of the individuals themselves not the consequences or lack there of in this case.

 

As you've said Naruto by this point is not just a terrible father and husband , but incredibly bad friend as well because he isn't letting Sasuke own up to what he has done in the course of his life nor tried to change him. Naruto doesn't spend time with his family and is always at work messing around. But you say Naruto is a terrible friend, father and husband for all those things yet suffers no repercussions for it. Same here, Sasuke is a terrible father, husband for not visiting home. He is a war criminal that has caused many deaths and attempted political assassination. Yes. And he suffers no consequences for it, but it doesn't change the nature of what he's done.

 

If a criminal has slaughtered hundreds or thousands of individuals over the course of his life, but he doesn't give a kitten, while back home people celebrate his killings with cake and ice cream plus tell him "Yeah you're scot-free man cause you don't care enough to take responsibility." Does it change the fact that he did those crimes? Both you and I wouldn't think so right? He's just not being punished for it. Yes, I understand you're disgusted that Everyone gets off easy for their sins and crimes despite being perfectly capable of understanding they must pay for them, especially the bloody Uchiha that must be pardoned left and right for out of my a-hole reasons. But it doesn't negate or change anything of what they've done. In this case we're talking about whether or Not Naruto and Sasuke are terrible fathers. This is regardless of them still keeping their families and stil having their wives at home doing their laundry, cooking their meals, knitting them scarves or what have you. Point being We are judging their actions not that they were never punished or suffered comeuppance.  


Edited by Phantom_999, 18 September 2015 - 12:20 PM.

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#56 Namikaze Clan

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 04:02 PM

But Sasuke did have a father figure. His own father Fugaku. He should already know what it takes to be a decent parent based on being raised bu his dad

#57 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 09:17 PM

 

Ah okay I see what you're saying James. You don't believe discussing who is a bad father since there are no negative consequences of it, no one tried preventing or stopping it etc. Yes it's it's completely true, but what we are talking about and judging are the actions of the individuals themselves not the consequences or lack there of in this case.

 

Okay, then let's look at this from a different angle. We are judging these parents by our own standards of how a parents should be. That's a hard thing to use because it's using real world standards to use in a fictional world. How many parent child interactions do you see in the world of Naruto? Not many.

Let's make this a little more fair. Let's compare Sasuke's parenthood and Naruto's to the other adults and parents in the universe that we know of that exist. First we will start with the base:

-Sasuke's fatherhood is basically him being neglectful, not being around, and at even one point being so indifferent he threatened his own child.

-Naruto's fatherhood is a little different with him being there, but also not being there. He is a workaholic who doesn't spend time with his family and when he does it is usually because of moments where they are getting in trouble. When he does does act like a parent, it is in the most pathetic ways but lecture and telling them to endure.

How many of the other Konoha 11 do we know that are shown their parent hood? Very few actually and I mean extremely few like only 1.
-Rock Lee is shown training with his kid and while it is not much I can easily say that this shows how committed he is to his son's life Metal Lee (Oiy, still a cringe name. Sorry, Rock, but it is.)

There are still others
-Hashirama was a father, but we don;t know the relationship with his own child. However, we do know he was apart of Tsunade's life and made a huge impact because she picked up traits from him such as the gambling. Now while that might seem like a bad habit to pick up as a trait it does prove Hashirama played an important role in Tsunade's life.

-Hagoromo or Sage of six paths parenthood is a dominate thing shown in the series and how he was with his two sons. He basically praised the one and neglected the other and the sons seemed to always be at ends with each other. Maybe because they had huge shoes to fill, but I could argue Hagoromo played favorites and even himself mentions how he failed in certain aspects with his kids. Now I can't say this makes him a good or bad father, but at least he admits he messed up as a father sometimes. (Funny how the mothers play no role in any of this)

-Might Dai is Might Gai's father and he is by far the most respected father figure in the whole series. He never treated his son like crap and actually influenced him to never give up just because of a few setbacks. This in turn allowed Might Gai to teach his own son pupil to do the same way and in turn Rock Lee became the same to his kid. This is probably the most detailed version of a father/son lineage I have ever seen. (Come on, Might Gai might as well be Rock Lee's father at this point. If Salad can take on traits of genetics from like god knows how many people, then there is not excuse or reason why Might Gai is not Rock Lee's child. Maybe Might Gai doesn't know Rock Lee his his own kid, and he is certainly stupid enough not put two and two together, but come on. One drunk binder later and I can see it happening. How interesting would that be too? Gai not knowing he is a father, but actually being a better father than anyone else.)

-Kakashi's father, I forget his name, has been shown to be a parent too. He looked like a parent who tried, but he just couldn't seem to get being a father down. When he died in what people believe was a betrayal, His son resented him, but Kakashi found out the truth, he loved his father more and finally understood everything. This might seem like the real world parenthood in which most often than not, kids are rebellious and don't understand their parents. This does not necessarily make him a bad father, but that their relationship is a bit slow. Only when Kakashi became a man did he finally understand.

-Fugaku, Sasuke's father. (see below)

-Minato as Naruto's father (also see below,) but want to go in deeper with this. This is a father how never really got a chance to be a full fledged father because of Obito. So, we can;t really judge Minato's fatherhood. However, what makes me ponder it all is how much of an influence Minato still was despite not being in Naruto's life for most of it. And I mean positive influence like supporting him, leaving him stuff, leaving the messages and in a way still watching over him. Yeah, he only briefly got to meet him, but he did more in that time than most parents I have seen in this series. Even Kushina as well. They spent so little time with their son and yet they made this huge impact on him. They loved him and left these pieces of their souls inside to come out and one day explain to him. Like I said, it is like comparing Superman and Naruto like this. So I could say that Minato is a good father because despite everything, like death, he still tried to be a part of his son's life. This doesn't translate well to Naruto though because Naruto seems almost annoyed being a parent given what we have seen of him with Bolt.

Everyone else we either don't see them being parents or they never got a chance to because they died.

I am only basing off what we have in the series and I can't base off my own experience because I am not a parent yet. So I can't give a full spectrum. Comparing the parenthood to other parents in the series.

So compared to other parents in the series, how bad is Sasuke and Naruto?
 

 

But Sasuke did have a father figure. His own father Fugaku. He should already know what it takes to be a decent parent based on being raised bu his dad

But his dad was overcritical, never gave him attention, and valued Itachi above him. This is why when Sasuke talks about bonds, it is the bonds with his brother, not with his father. This is unlike Naruto who had a strong bond with his parents albeit brief. Yeah, he only got to see them one, but he got more value and love and care from his father in those brief moments than Sasuke did his entire life.

I'll give the perfect example. Naruto actually cried and loved his father when he realized he finally met him, knew him, and then he had to leave. That is powerful. It's like Superman meeting his own father Jor-El through the holograms to which Jor-El said "We wanted to be there for you, but we couldn't. We had to make the toughest choice out of our love for you" and Kal-El/Superman understood this.

When has Sasuke ever thought about his father or held him in respect when he grew up? Does this make Fugaku a bad father? No, but it means he never had a huge influence over Sasuke's life. Minato was a bigger influence on Naruto's life in even the most minor ways that Naruto never knew until later.


 


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#58 Namikaze Clan

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 09:33 PM

According to his mother, Fugaku talked about Sasuke when they were in private. He did value Sasuke, but just never expressed it. And Sasuke thought of his parents when he mentioned bonds. Such as his fight with Naruto at the end of Part 1 and when he mentioned his lost family members to Kakashi after he killed Danzo.

Edited by Namikaze Clan, 18 September 2015 - 09:34 PM.


#59 Nar123

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 10:06 PM

Okay, then let's look at this from a different angle. We are judging these parents by our own standards of how a parents should be. That's a hard thing to use because it's using real world standards to use in a fictional world. How many parent child interactions do you see in the world of Naruto? Not many.

Let's make this a little more fair. Let's compare Sasuke's parenthood and Naruto's to the other adults and parents in the universe that we know of that exist. First we will start with the base:

-Sasuke's fatherhood is basically him being neglectful, not being around, and at even one point being so indifferent he threatened his own child.

-Naruto's fatherhood is a little different with him being there, but also not being there. He is a workaholic who doesn't spend time with his family and when he does it is usually because of moments where they are getting in trouble. When he does does act like a parent, it is in the most pathetic ways but lecture and telling them to endure.

How many of the other Konoha 11 do we know that are shown their parent hood? Very few actually and I mean extremely few like only 1.
-Rock Lee is shown training with his kid and while it is not much I can easily say that this shows how committed he is to his son's life Metal Lee (Oiy, still a cringe name. Sorry, Rock, but it is.)

There are still others
-Hashirama was a father, but we don;t know the relationship with his own child. However, we do know he was apart of Tsunade's life and made a huge impact because she picked up traits from him such as the gambling. Now while that might seem like a bad habit to pick up as a trait it does prove Hashirama played an important role in Tsunade's life.

-Hagoromo or Sage of six paths parenthood is a dominate thing shown in the series and how he was with his two sons. He basically praised the one and neglected the other and the sons seemed to always be at ends with each other. Maybe because they had huge shoes to fill, but I could argue Hagoromo played favorites and even himself mentions how he failed in certain aspects with his kids. Now I can't say this makes him a good or bad father, but at least he admits he messed up as a father sometimes. (Funny how the mothers play no role in any of this)

-Might Dai is Might Gai's father and he is by far the most respected father figure in the whole series. He never treated his son like crap and actually influenced him to never give up just because of a few setbacks. This in turn allowed Might Gai to teach his own son pupil to do the same way and in turn Rock Lee became the same to his kid. This is probably the most detailed version of a father/son lineage I have ever seen. (Come on, Might Gai might as well be Rock Lee's father at this point. If Salad can take on traits of genetics from like god knows how many people, then there is not excuse or reason why Might Gai is not Rock Lee's child. Maybe Might Gai doesn't know Rock Lee his his own kid, and he is certainly stupid enough not put two and two together, but come on. One drunk binder later and I can see it happening. How interesting would that be too? Gai not knowing he is a father, but actually being a better father than anyone else.)

-Kakashi's father, I forget his name, has been shown to be a parent too. He looked like a parent who tried, but he just couldn't seem to get being a father down. When he died in what people believe was a betrayal, His son resented him, but Kakashi found out the truth, he loved his father more and finally understood everything. This might seem like the real world parenthood in which most often than not, kids are rebellious and don't understand their parents. This does not necessarily make him a bad father, but that their relationship is a bit slow. Only when Kakashi became a man did he finally understand.

-Fugaku, Sasuke's father. (see below)

-Minato as Naruto's father (also see below,) but want to go in deeper with this. This is a father how never really got a chance to be a full fledged father because of Obito. So, we can;t really judge Minato's fatherhood. However, what makes me ponder it all is how much of an influence Minato still was despite not being in Naruto's life for most of it. And I mean positive influence like supporting him, leaving him stuff, leaving the messages and in a way still watching over him. Yeah, he only briefly got to meet him, but he did more in that time than most parents I have seen in this series. Even Kushina as well. They spent so little time with their son and yet they made this huge impact on him. They loved him and left these pieces of their souls inside to come out and one day explain to him. Like I said, it is like comparing Superman and Naruto like this. So I could say that Minato is a good father because despite everything, like death, he still tried to be a part of his son's life. This doesn't translate well to Naruto though because Naruto seems almost annoyed being a parent given what we have seen of him with Bolt.

Everyone else we either don't see them being parents or they never got a chance to because they died.

I am only basing off what we have in the series and I can't base off my own experience because I am not a parent yet. So I can't give a full spectrum. Comparing the parenthood to other parents in the series.

So compared to other parents in the series, how bad is Sasuke and Naruto?
 

 

But his dad was overcritical, never gave him attention, and valued Itachi above him. This is why when Sasuke talks about bonds, it is the bonds with his brother, not with his father. This is unlike Naruto who had a strong bond with his parents albeit brief. Yeah, he only got to see them one, but he got more value and love and care from his father in those brief moments than Sasuke did his entire life.

I'll give the perfect example. Naruto actually cried and loved his father when he realized he finally met him, knew him, and then he had to leave. That is powerful. It's like Superman meeting his own father Jor-El through the holograms to which Jor-El said "We wanted to be there for you, but we couldn't. We had to make the toughest choice out of our love for you" and Kal-El/Superman understood this.

When has Sasuke ever thought about his father or held him in respect when he grew up? Does this make Fugaku a bad father? No, but it means he never had a huge influence over Sasuke's life. Minato was a bigger influence on Naruto's life in even the most minor ways that Naruto never knew until later.

 

 

 

Look man, it's simple, you put a child in the world you should take care of it

Naruto and Sasuke are absent fathers, neglecting their respective children, idk why you're trying to find excuses in-universe to justify Sasuke but in the end this all happened because Kishimoto needed something to be a plot for Boruto movie and the gaiden and that thing is daddy issues, no matter how out of character is for someone like Naruto was to negect his child


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#60 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 10:20 PM

According to his mother, Fugaku talked about Sasuke when they were in private. He did value Sasuke, but just never expressed it. And Sasuke thought of his parents when he mentioned bonds. Such as his fight with Naruto at the end of Part 1 and when he mentioned his lost family members to Kakashi after he killed Danzo.

Except we have nobody's word except Mikoto's that that's actually true. For all we know, she was lying to Sasuke in order to make him feel better because, as a mother, she was at least trying to make him happy. She saw he was depressed and knew the reason why. We are never shown anything to corroborate it though. We even had a more detailed flashback to just before Itachi killed Fugaku and Mikoto, showing them saying things to him and such and yet we couldn't get one or two pages of showing Fugaku doing such a thing?

Even when Fugaku began praising Sasuke after he finally got the Fireball down, it only happened to take place when Fugaku began to see that he couldn't rely on Itachi as the tip of the spear of the Uchiha coup like he had planned, so I am far more inclined to believe that he only began to pay more attention to Sasuke in order to try to mold him into what he wanted Itachi to be.


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