171 replies to this topic

[Bail o' Lies]

You forgot about the other group of Hinata fans , the group that got friendzoned by the first girl they like. People like Sawyer .... who obviously wants revenge and instantly hate any girl or character that have similarities with the girl that rejected him ....

People like this should stop , quit being reviewer .... because they are kids who can't grow up and be a professional. All their judgement is clouded by personal feelings.

That was the second group:"The fanatics were even greater weirdos then I was who wore their resentment of life on their shoulders. They saw Naruto/Hinata as their dream girl/self, and Sakura as either the kitten that didn't put out for them leaving them a virgin or the girl that stole the boy that was rightfully theirs. I saw far more casuals then the fanatics growing up, but online the fanatics became the face."

Granted, he is more of a Dude-bro then then ones I'd met but he still falls under this.

 

If I were to meet those people, I would straight up tell them "They're not the reason you were rejected...you are." 

 

Think about it. If you are bitter after all these years for some girl in High School rejecting you, she saw who you really were coming a mile away and said "No Thanks." If anything, you should be lucky you got "Friend-Zoned". At least being friends ain't a bad thing, but if you can't accept that, that goes out the window as well.

They would have a hysterical public fit if someone told them that. Most people would be annoyed by the fact that everyone knew that yet you still decided to hit that nest.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 26 March 2018 - 11:07 PM.

[griff142]

Alot of anime reviewers on Youtube are NH biased. Only a few show any fairness to the manga and see it for how it is. The NH fans are the only ones really keeping Boruto afloat.

[James S Cassidy]

Also Orihime was not the popular girl in the fanbase that award goes to Rukia. So even if some clowns at SP tried that they would have their collective head chewed off. Then Kubo did have her end up with Ichigo. The Irony.

That's another weird anomely.

Look at the fanbse of any other anime and I bet my bottom dollor that the Tsundere character is far more popular than the Moe shy character. I would even go as far to say that 99.99% of the time the Moe extremely shy girl is seen more as a comic relief than an actual character and people don't see her going far.

Naruto has been the only anime/manga that has an extremely shy, one dimensional female moe character that got to be more popular than any other charcter including the main character themself, but then again the Shy Moe character usually plays a good part in the story and is far more useful with development.

I mean this, I have never seen any other anime or manga do and reaction that Naruto has.
I have never seen any other manga be completely rewritten for a side character
I have never seen any other anime force scenes of a character just to make her popular when in the original story she was never there.
 

 

NS is only the favorite hetero- pairing is because Japan like their yaoi pairings but it is mostly a fanfic pairing and they know it, which a guy like you and everybody else here knows it too. NS is the most popular, realistic pairing in Japan.

Which is why I give alot of respect to the SasuNaru fans. They knew it was never going to be canon because they know how shonen story telling goes and yet they still loved it and Kishimoto never really kitten on them outside of what SP did. That fandom was even very supportive of NS and not NH because they forsaw that Sasuke was never going to love Sakura and that Naruto loved Sakura instead. They knew and yet they were never angry.

The only part that made them angry was when they sacrificed the bond between Naruto and Sasuke for Hinata. I think that is what got them the most. Not making your pairing canon is one thing, but kittening on them too because of an obvious bias to a character who had no business being there is another.

[griff142]

That's another weird anomely.
Look at the fanbse of any other anime and I bet my bottom dollor that the Tsundere character is far more popular than the Moe shy character. I would even go as far to say that 99.99% of the time the Moe extremely shy girl is seen more as a comic relief than an actual character and people don't see her going far.
Naruto has been the only anime/manga that has an extremely shy, one dimensional female moe character that got to be more popular than any other charcter including the main character themself, but then again the Shy Moe character usually plays a good part in the story and is far more useful with development.
I mean this, I have never seen any other anime or manga do and reaction that Naruto has.
I have never seen any other manga be completely rewritten for a side character
I have never seen any other anime force scenes of a character just to make her popular when in the original story she was never there.
 
 


Which is why I give alot of respect to the SasuNaru fans. They knew it was never going to be canon because they know how shonen story telling goes and yet they still loved it and Kishimoto never really kitten on them outside of what SP did. That fandom was even very supportive of NS and not NH because they forsaw that Sasuke was never going to love Sakura and that Naruto loved Sakura instead. They knew and yet they were never angry.
The only part that made them angry was when they sacrificed the bond between Naruto and Sasuke for Hinata. I think that is what got them the most. Not making your pairing canon is one thing, but kittening on them too because of an obvious bias to a character who had no business being there is another.

That is why you can't have only one character benefit from this ending. You basically anger a good portion of the fanbase and because of that, they have permanently lost the fanbase and also the revenue. It has backfired on them because Naruto or Boruto is never to regain that popularity that it once had, unless they reboot and do it KITTEN correctly.

[Bail o' Lies]

That's another weird anomely.

Look at the fanbse of any other anime and I bet my bottom dollor that the Tsundere character is far more popular than the Moe shy character. I would even go as far to say that 99.99% of the time the Moe extremely shy girl is seen more as a comic relief than an actual character and people don't see her going far.

Naruto has been the only anime/manga that has an extremely shy, one dimensional female moe character that got to be more popular than any other charcter including the main character themself, but then again the Shy Moe character usually plays a good part in the story and is far more useful with development.

I mean this, I have never seen any other anime or manga do and reaction that Naruto has.
I have never seen any other manga be completely rewritten for a side character
I have never seen any other anime force scenes of a character just to make her popular when in the original story she was never there.
 

Which is why I give alot of respect to the SasuNaru fans. They knew it was never going to be canon because they know how shonen story telling goes and yet they still loved it and Kishimoto never really kitten on them outside of what SP did. That fandom was even very supportive of NS and not NH because they forsaw that Sasuke was never going to love Sakura and that Naruto loved Sakura instead. They knew and yet they were never angry.

The only part that made them angry was when they sacrificed the bond between Naruto and Sasuke for Hinata. I think that is what got them the most. Not making your pairing canon is one thing, but kittening on them too because of an obvious bias to a character who had no business being there is another.

Because Naruto is the only one that had a moe {especially one as prominent as Hinata was (because of SP) early on} on Toonami that had some chance of getting the main character. So people that watch it fell in love without ever seeing another anime, also because you never see a girl like Hinata on american TV; she was unique and therefor easy to fetishize.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 30 March 2018 - 04:01 AM.

[Nate River]

 

Courtesy of Wikipedia via me Googling it;

"When the mother leaves the hospital, the umbilical cord is given to her. This Japanese custom is based upon the belief that the umbilical cord has a direct relationship to the health of the baby. ... Additionally, the Japanese believe that the umbilical cord is a symbol of the child's fate."

So there's the short of it. Effectively, Karin is Sarada's biological mother according to Japanese customs, and the fact too DNA tests hardly lie, outside of some misreading of the DNA used in the test.

 

You're missing some steps here.

 

(1) This assumes he believes in the custom, which is something we don't know. It's inclusion doesn't mean he believes in it. It could be nothing more than a convenient plot device. He could also include in complete ignorance of the custom. We don't know.

 

(2) If he does follow it, would it be unusual for the midwife to keep it?

 

(3) Gaiden makes it pretty clear that the bio mother is Sakura. Technically, we don't even know what Suigetsu compared the cord to. I assume Sarara's DNA as she is standing right there. Where would he get Sakura's to compare it too? There is no obvious source at the time. DNA in a vaccum isn't helpful if it's identity you are after. You must compare it to another sample. Therefore, Suigetsu's match would match the cord to Sarada, which would only tell you that Karin had Sarada's cord. Nothing more.  It doesn't ID the mother, no matter who it is. The mother's identity is being assumed on the basis only she would have the cord. It's an unproven assumption (that is outright contradicted by the end of Gaiden). The comment about by Suigetsu about Karin being the mother was him making an assumption.

 

(4) The end of Gaiden answers openly contradicts that assumption. And what;s more, it;s occurs sometime later (i.e. when Sasuke and Sakura are not around). In other words, its written for the audience, not the characters. There is no point to this scene if Karin's lying as the manga would have already established the point this scene made (assuming she is lying). There is no motive or reason to lie to Suigetsu and it would makes sense she'd be pissed that he risked messing up hte relationship between her "friend" and her daughter.

 

(5) This argument isn't helpful anyway. Gaiden's entire point is that Bonds trump blood. Even if Sakura wasn't the bio mother, it didn't matter because of the bond she shared with her. 

 

Gaiden sucks. I hate it, but I wish it wouldn't get torturer the way it does and extrapolate stuff from it that it does say or is outright contradicts by what's on the page. This really isn't the hill to die on.

[griff142]

Because Naruto is the only one that had a moe {especially one as prominent as Hinata was (because of SP) early on} on Toonami that had some chance of getting the main character. So people that watch it fell in love without ever seeing another anime, also because you never see a girl like Hinata on american TV; she was unique and therefor easy to fetishize.

That is where I got started with Naruto. Toonami back in the day is where you got introduced with new anime. So I can see how people got introduced to Hinata that way and liked her over Sakura if they didn't understand the difference between types of characters there were, if they were still new to anime. They still had plenty time though to figure it out since they had years to do it, so it is still no excuse.

Back to James's assessment that not only tsundere characters are usually more popular than moe characters, but in most manga and anime, especially shonen manga, the tsundere character usually gets with the main character and Naruto was going down that same path. Some higher up must have a moe fetish to help force this change.

Edited by griff142, 30 March 2018 - 01:33 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

You're missing some steps here.

 

(1) This assumes he believes in the custom, which is something we don't know. It's inclusion doesn't mean he believes in it. It could be nothing more than a convenient plot device. He could also include in complete ignorance of the custom. We don't know.

 

(2) If he does follow it, would it be unusual for the midwife to keep it?

 

(3) Gaiden makes it pretty clear that the bio mother is Sakura. Technically, we don't even know what Suigetsu compared the cord to. I assume Sarara's DNA as she is standing right there. Where would he get Sakura's to compare it too? There is no obvious source at the time. DNA in a vaccum isn't helpful if it's identity you are after. You must compare it to another sample. Therefore, Suigetsu's match would match the cord to Sarada, which would only tell you that Karin had Sarada's cord. Nothing more.  It doesn't ID the mother, no matter who it is. The mother's identity is being assumed on the basis only she would have the cord. It's an unproven assumption (that is outright contradicted by the end of Gaiden). The comment about by Suigetsu about Karin being the mother was him making an assumption.

 

(4) The end of Gaiden answers openly contradicts that assumption. And what;s more, it;s occurs sometime later (i.e. when Sasuke and Sakura are not around). In other words, its written for the audience, not the characters. There is no point to this scene if Karin's lying as the manga would have already established the point this scene made (assuming she is lying). There is no motive or reason to lie to Suigetsu and it would makes sense she'd be pissed that he risked messing up hte relationship between her "friend" and her daughter.

 

(5) This argument isn't helpful anyway. Gaiden's entire point is that Bonds trump blood. Even if Sakura wasn't the bio mother, it didn't matter because of the bond she shared with her. 

 

Gaiden sucks. I hate it, but I wish it wouldn't get torturer the way it does and extrapolate stuff from it that it does say or is outright contradicts by what's on the page. This really isn't the hill to die on.

 

Yeah, good point, I just was trying to bring the info up, and you do got good point in regards to the story at all, Nate. It also just serves as a sad reminder of how freaking screwed up this whole manga has become just because one animation studio and a group of extreme fans got their way and ruined it for EVERYONE ELSE.

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 30 March 2018 - 03:46 PM.

[Derock]

That is where I got started with Naruto. Toonami back in the day is where you got introduced with new anime. So I can see how people got introduced to Hinata that way and liked her over Sakura if they didn't understand the difference between types of characters there were, if they were still new to anime. They still had plenty time though to figure it out since they had years to do it, so it is still no excuse.

 

I was the same too however, Hinata didn't get that much attention to guarantee likable views, at least to me that is. Sakura was always front and center.  Back then, she was reminded me of other female characters such as Amy Rose from Sonic and Misty from Pokemon. I still believe that people jumped ship to Hinata (a minor character who didn't do squat, unlike many of fans assumed) because they followed word of Sakura's initial design/personality from Masashi's earlier statement. I kept saying how the hell Hinata, a minor character who didn't do much, suddenly got the attention and priorities over the main characters, especially the titular character at the end because all of the bias and favoritism behind the scenes and "fans". Its just plain nonsense.

[Yyubie]

Hinata in my opinion is like a baby. When people see a baby they reaction is like .... "AWWW.... HOW CUTE!!!". That's the same reaction they do when they see Hinata , the power of Moe is real. She doesn't have flaws in the eyes of her worshiper while in reality she has a flaw , but her fans saw her as this perfect waifus.

[griff142]

Hinata in my opinion is like a baby. When people see a baby they reaction is like .... "AWWW.... HOW CUTE!!!". That's the same reaction they do when they see Hinata , the power of Moe is real. She doesn't have flaws in the eyes of her worshiper while in reality she has a flaw , but her fans saw her as this perfect waifus.

All Hail the MOE!!! Honestly though, most moes tend to be nothing more than an comical character in alot anime. True some are more than that but they're very few of them. Heck, Hinata's stalking and clumsiness was supposed to be for comic relief. She is the only one to be propelled into fame like that. There is nothing special about her.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

All Hail the MOE!!! Honestly though, most moes tend to be nothing more than an comical character in alot anime. True some are more than that but they're very few of them. Heck, Hinata's stalking and clumsiness was supposed to be for comic relief. She is the only one to be propelled into fame like that. There is nothing special about her.

 

Yeah, but most moe characters also can be considered popular for a REASON, Hinata is just that 'cause of what she is, nothing more, nothing less.

[Derock]

The problem is, and I stated this before a couple of months back, while moes are popular with reasons just like Bryon said, Hinata isn't despite what and how the Naruto "fans" claimed her to be. And she is one of the worse ones, personality-wise and design wise. Oh, she's shy, has big boobs, and "somehow" have feelings for the titular character . Yeah, and?!

 

I felt that actual moe characters like Nakoruru from Samurai Shodown series, Chibiusa/Sailor Chibi-Moon and Hotaru/Sailor Saturn from Sailor Moon, hell even Cream from Sonic are the better ones.

[griff142]

Yeah, but most moe characters also can be considered popular for a REASON, Hinata is just that 'cause of what she is, nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah, I agree any character can be popular as long as they have good writing behind them. I am just stating a fact that alot moe characters have a certain role to play in manga as a comic relief and how Hinata's character was portrayed at points, I believe that her role was no different.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The problem is, and I stated this before a couple of months back, while moes are popular with reasons just like Bryon said, Hinata isn't despite what and how the Naruto "fans" claimed her to be. And she is one of the worse ones, personality-wise and design wise. Oh, she's shy, has big boobs, and "somehow" have feelings for the titular character . Yeah, and?!

 

I felt that actual moe characters like Nakoruru from Samurai Shodown series, Chibiusa/Sailor Chibi-Moon and Hotaru/Sailor Saturn from Sailor Moon, hell even Cream from Sonic are the better ones.

 

Damn straight, Derock, and that's just stupid what we ALL got.

[KClaws_2]

Sarada is Sakura's daughter. The Karin thing was another one of Kishimoto's "Red Herrings". 

 

Don't think too much on it. Kishi is known for trying to deliver a message and make a complete 180 at the end.

 

I will only accept Sarada being Karin's daughter if Boruto gets to be Sakura's son (I'd rather not, but I'll take it). How you can make that work...well...discussing it would be fun! 

[Phantom_999]

The problem is, and I stated this before a couple of months back, while moes are popular with reasons just like Bryon said, Hinata isn't despite what and how the Naruto "fans" claimed her to be. And she is one of the worse ones, personality-wise and design wise. Oh, she's shy, has big boobs, and "somehow" have feelings for the titular character . Yeah, and?!

 

I felt that actual moe characters like Nakoruru from Samurai Shodown series, Chibiusa/Sailor Chibi-Moon and Hotaru/Sailor Saturn from Sailor Moon, hell even Cream from Sonic are the better ones.

 

Well I will never shut up about this so I will bring this up til my death bed. Fans don't obsess over Hinata because she is a moe. They obsess over her because he was the only girl to be confirmed to having a crush on a very tragic lonely little boy. Because we were suppose to sympathize with Naruto from the beginning and how much crap he has to put up being hated and an outcast, the fact that there was a girl that liked him is what made Hinata a hit with many that feel for Naruto and his's back story, especially since his actual crush was not treating him with kindness in return either. If Sakura DID actually like Naruto even before she became part of team 7 with him, she most likely would have been loved by even her most vocal and rabid haters. I feel that the popularity of Sakura and Hinata or lack of is not their merits or personality, it is what they are to Naruto and how they treated him at first that have most followers' first impressions of them and unfortunately those first impressions stuck with many were not willing to look past them. Well if we talking about the Hinata fanatics/hierophants and Sakura anti-fans at least 

Edited by Phantom_999, 02 April 2018 - 06:50 PM.

[Legend054]

Just wanted to share this video. Must watch

 

Edited by Legend054, 31 March 2018 - 04:14 AM.

[Nate River]

Sarada is Sakura's daughter. The Karin thing was another one of Kishimoto's "Red Herrings". 

 

Don't think too much on it. Kishi is known for trying to deliver a message and make a complete 180 at the end.

 

I will only accept Sarada being Karin's daughter if Boruto gets to be Sakura's son (I'd rather not, but I'll take it). How you can make that work...well...discussing it would be fun! 

 

It's not even a red herring. The end of Gaiden spells it out. I hate that subplot is even included Gaiden because it defeats the purpose of its core point (and completely mucks it up).

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

It's not even a red herring. The end of Gaiden spells it out. I hate that subplot is even included Gaiden because it defeats the purpose of its core point (and completely mucks it up).

 

Me too, and what's the point of it anyhow?!

 

Now, I'd been thinking if I had done something different in The Last, I was thinking potentially of the fight with Naruto and Toneri being different to where Toneri senses how Naruto feels for Sakura, using that to his advantage to try to get her as a pawn under his control or something, and that Hinata speaks to him to tell her how he feels, or else she wouldn't be able to fall in love with anyone else but him, which I owe to G Gundam.

That was done so well with Allenby and Domon in the last episode for Domon to tell Rain how he feels, so I could see that work well for Naruto and Sakura, case closed.