79 replies to this topic

[Sakura Blossoms]

Wow...so apparently now Zimmerman is filing charges himself *against* Trayvon's parents ...want a little oil to add to that already raging fire you got there, Zimmerman -.-

This whole thing has just remind me from the start, of a twisted version of the O.J Simpson trial, complete with media bias and high racial tensions. Only this time all the whites are happy the accused got off, while the blacks are pissed he did. With O.J it was the complete opposite.

My opinion on the whole thing? I was one of the only people of my 'race' who believed O.J did it, and got away scot-free. In this case, I also believe Zimmerman got away with what essentially boils down to murder. One can try to 'justify' it as alleged 'self-defense', but when you take another human life you have *killed/murdered* that soul.

[sushi.]

Not to mention the lives of his family and friends that was destroyed.

 

I would like to think this could've had a happy ending, but we don't know that. Who knows if Zimmerman didn't reached for his gun, his head would've been smashed to death?

 

I just think he could've left the gun in the car, because I agree with tricksie on this one. I think he was prepared to kill Trayvon, and while he couldn't predict the future, I would say he kind of came looking for trouble.

So you think that Zimmerman should be punished because he defended his own life?

Yes. Because someone is dead because of the man that is walking free.

[Derock]

Not to mention the lives of his family and friends that was destroyed.

 

I would like to think this could've had a happy ending, but we don't know that. Who knows if Zimmerman didn't reached for his gun, his head would've been smashed to death?

 

There wouldn't be a happy ending, regardless. The point of that is that it was Zimmerman's choice to follow Trayvon, trying to become a "hero". 

 

It's also the point of the matter that this situation can happen to anyone and this is why everyone is pissed off. We do have "psychos" or people who doesn't have their right minds in tact living in the US.  I was "almost" became a victim in a some what similar fashion. Thank God there weren't any guns around. 

 

One thing I will say that stereotype card is still playing.

[desaix]

Wow...so apparently now Zimmerman is filing charges himself *against* Trayvon's parents ...want a little oil to add to that already raging fire you got there, Zimmerman -.-

This whole thing has just remind me from the start, of a twisted version of the O.J Simpson trial, complete with media bias and high racial tensions. Only this time all the whites are happy the accused got off, while the blacks are pissed he did. With O.J it was the complete opposite.

My opinion on the whole thing? I was one of the only people of my 'race' who believed O.J did it, and got away scot-free. In this case, I also believe Zimmerman got away with what essentially boils down to murder. One can try to 'justify' it as alleged 'self-defense', but when you take another human life you have *killed/murdered* that soul.

 

Uh, Zimmerman isn't filing charges against Trayvon's parents (at least, not unless he's done it in the last fifteen minutes or so).  That was Ted Nugent who suggested he file charges.  Zimmerman is suing some news people (who blatantly committed libel against Zimmerman), and a former employee of the prosecutor is filing charges against the prosecutor on whistleblowing grounds (again, very blatant), but so far there have been no charges filed against Trayvon's parents.

[Beastbomb]

Wow...so apparently now Zimmerman is filing charges himself *against* Trayvon's parents ...want a little oil to add to that already raging fire you got there, Zimmerman -.-

This whole thing has just remind me from the start, of a twisted version of the O.J Simpson trial, complete with media bias and high racial tensions. Only this time all the whites are happy the accused got off, while the blacks are pissed he did. With O.J it was the complete opposite.

My opinion on the whole thing? I was one of the only people of my 'race' who believed O.J did it, and got away scot-free. In this case, I also believe Zimmerman got away with what essentially boils down to murder. One can try to 'justify' it as alleged 'self-defense', but when you take another human life you have *killed/murdered* that soul.

Did we really have to bring racial issues into this. This is what I mean by this case being a complete load of bs fueled by the unquenchable hatred of racial bias by mainstream media. Did you know that Zimmerman tuttered black children, took a black woman to the prom, an even stood up to the police when an older black man was being beaten (Freedom Radio, Hannity)? Does this sound like a racist or hateful man to you. This was the instance of a delinquent, who did drugs the night of the attack, that made a choice to attack an innocent man. Trayvon is to blame for this, no "perpetrater is the victim card" will be played on this case.

[Jake]

I would like to think this could've had a happy ending, but we don't know that. Who knows if Zimmerman didn't reached for his gun, his head would've been smashed to death?

 

No if Zimmerman hadn't of went for his pistol Trayvon would have taken it and shot him. Trayvon's DNA was found on the holster which proves that he was trying to grab it. And yes it is very possible that Trayvon could've busted Zimmerman's skull before the police got there, stuff like that has happened before.

 

Yes. Because someone is dead because of the man that is walking free.

 

So Zimmerman was supposed to lay there getting killed when he had no way of knowing that the police were even on the way?

[Sakura Blossoms]

Did we really have to bring racial issues into this. This is what I mean by this case being a complete load of bs fueled by the unquenchable hatred of racial bias by mainstream media. Did you know that Zimmerman tuttered black children, took a black woman to the prom, an even stood up to the police when an older black man was being beaten (Freedom Radio, Hannity)? Does this sound like a racist or hateful man to you. This was the instance of a delinquent, who did drugs the night of the attack, that made a choice to attack an innocent man. Trayvon is to blame for this, no "perpetrater is the victim card" will be played on this case.

 
As far as I can see from my own post I did not call Zimmerman a racist, imply that he was a racist, or say that he was a hateful man. Please re-read my post in its entirety. I commented that the media has a bias, and that during the O.J trials race played a part in the media feeding frenzy, as it does now. All I said was that I believed that Zimmerman was guilty of murder just like O.J was, and both got off scot-free. At no point did I bring 'race' into it by implying anyone was a racist.

Uh, Zimmerman isn't filing charges against Trayvon's parents (at least, not unless he's done it in the last fifteen minutes or so).

George Zimmerman files civil suit against Trayvon Martin's parents

[Beastbomb]

 
As far as I can see from my own post I did not call Zimmerman a racist, imply that he was a racist, or say that he was a hateful man. Please re-read my post in its entirety. I commented that the media has a bias, and that during the O.J trials race played a part in the media feeding frenzy, as it does now. All I said was that I believed that Zimmerman was guilty of murder just like O.J was, and both got off scot-free. At no point did I bring 'race' into it by implying anyone was a racist.

Good call, I did missinterpret you point on Zimmerman. I will admit that i was wrong. But race was implied when you stated that all white people are happy an the blacks are pissed. That's stereotyping and a completely wrong way to go about proving a point. Saying things like that dont endear people to the argument. I'm going to stop before this gets ugly though. I don't want to fight about this, but just show that the racial bias has clouded the judgement of a lot of people. Debating an opinion is fine, saying that a white man is happy because a white man was was proven not guilty in a case gets me a little upset. This was a case where the defendant was proven to be not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and people still claim the man to be guilty of second degree murder. Like many of the courts and people of this nation, I believe you are innocent until you are proven guilty even if I have my suspicions about the accused.

[KnS]

"But I think his heart was in the right place. It just went terribly wrong."

 

If anything, Zimmerman was guilty of not using "good judgment," the juror said.

 

"When he was in the car, and he had called 911, he shouldn't have gotten out of that car," she said.

 

She also said she believes Martin threw the first punch in the confrontation that followed.

 

"I think George got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn't have been there. But Trayvon decided that he wasn't going to let him scare him ... and I think Trayvon got mad and attacked him," she said.

 

Zimmerman felt his life was in danger before shooting Martin, and it was his voice that was heard screaming for help in 911 calls, the juror said she believes.

 

"He had a right to defend himself," she said. "If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him, or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right."  -- Juror B37 (reference)

 

 

The juror's comments are interesting to consider, for whatever they're worth.

 

+ Did Zimmerman just lie and claim self defense?  Maybe.  But maybe he didn't lie and it really was self defense.

 

+ If Zimmerman hadn't reached for his gun would he have avoided getting his head bashed?  Maybe.  Or maybe he reached for his gun because his head was being bashed.

 

+ Was Zimmerman trying to be a hero?  Maybe.  But maybe Martin was trying to be a tough guy thug, teaching some "creepy ass cracker" a lesson with his fighting skills.

 

+ If Martin had lived would the story have changed?  Maybe.  But if Martin hadn't been shot perhaps Zimmerman would not have lived, and then we would not have his side of the story.

 

The point is, we don't know the answer to any of those questions.  None of us.  And while armchair quarterbacking is a common practice it is often tainted by purely emotional reactions and bias, and people can end up believing in highly subjective assumptions that are not supported by the known facts.  

 

It's understandable to be emotional about it, to a point, because it was a tragic situation and it's natural to expect that someone be held accountable.  But accountability for the sake of accountability, without regard for truth or justice -- or, you know, evidence -- is no answer either.

 

What we do know for certain is that despite the vast resources, influence, and sheer determination that the Florida State Attorney's Office brought to bear on this case -- everything they presented and every angle they tried to secure a conviction -- they could not scrape together any evidence that Zimmerman's actions were racially motivated, illegal, or not self defense as he maintained.

 

The six women who heard and saw all the evidence, and who agonized collectively over that evidence, unanimously reached the conclusion that there wasn't sufficient proof to find Zimmerman guilty.  I, for one, am not willing to believe I know more about what really happened than they did when they made their decision.

 

I know that if I were in a position where I felt I had to defend my life and there was no evidence to prove I had done anything illegal, I would hope the jury in my trial would follow the law as those six women did, rather than make a decision based on emotion.

 

 

P.S.  It's depressing to note that 54 people lost their lives due gun violence in Chicago -- just during the Zimmerman trial.  Three more were killed in the days since the verdict, including a 16-year-old who was walking to see his infant daughter. (reference)  It's my opinion that we should be asking ourselves why the media and the Al Sharptons are not sensationalizing those shootings?  Why they do not champion those victims with the same rigor?  Why they do not incite as much indignation or decry that justice must be served to the Chicago shooters who may never even be identified much less stand trial?  If they are, I've missed it.  

[desaix]

Uh, Sakura Blossoms?  That link you posted was to a satirical website (an Onion-style publication, though it apparently takes itself more seriously).  Got one from an actual news source?

 

(I will point out Snopes has debunked this one:  http://www.snopes.co...e/zimmerman.asp )

Edited by desaix, 17 July 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[Beastbomb]

 
 
P.S.  It's depressing to note that 54 people lost their lives due gun violence in Chicago -- just during the Zimmerman trial.  Three more were killed in the days since the verdict, including a 16-year-old who was walking to see his infant daughter. (reference)  It's my opinion that we should be asking ourselves why the media and the Al Sharptons are not sensationalizing those shootings?  Why they do not champion those victims with the same rigor?  Why they do not incite as much indignation or decry that justice must be served to the Chicago shooters who may never even be identified much less stand trial?  If they are, I've missed it.  

Political correctness and what fits there political agenda... It also points out the cons of gun control.

[Jake]

George Zimmerman files civil suit against Trayvon Martin's parents

 

It's fake.

 

http://news.msn.com/...martins-parents

[Strangelove]

 .
George Zimmerman files civil suit against Trayvon Martin's parents

 

Lol, walked right into that one...I know how that feels, considering when I was introduced to the Onion News Network I actually believed it.

[Chivalrysae]

I agree with the verdict of the trial based on what was presented.  The part about the trial that upsets me the most is the evidence/information that was withheld and the media trying to make it more than it was.  For example, most of the pictures published of Travon were from when he was 13 so he looked like a little kid.  It led a lot of people to instantly believe Zimmerman was guilty (i.e. how could he be afraid of a little kid).  In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty, however, in this trial, it felt to me that the opposite was true.

 

The trial lawyers also tried to swing for the fences and get the larger offenses, which with the evidence they had was nearly impossible.

 

There's also a lot hindsight responses.  If he hadn't followed him, if he hadn't profiled him, etc.  None of these actions in themselves are illegal.  Everyone, whether they like to admit it or not make their own judgement of others.  If you saw someone that looked like a crimminal you saw on the news you may not assume it's the same person, but chances are you'll be a little wary.  In one of my law classes we learned about Foreseeable Risk.  For example, an adult provides liquor for a party of underaged kids.  The setting is in the winter in a northern state...say Montana.  One kid goes out and because of the liquor feels hot and starts removing clothes and ends up dying of hypothermia.  Is the adult guilty of murder?  They are guilty of providing the alcohol, but not the murder because it was not foreseeable.  Nothing in the Travon case showed that Zimmerman could, in the foreseeable future, be put in a lethal confrontation.

 

Could things have gone differently?  Sure.  Should the prosecution have tried to go after something they could actually get to stick, sure.  From an emotional standpoint, it's not the verdict we wanted because we are still weighing the value of a human life.  But from an objective standpoint, the legal system did it's job and the jury really didn't have any other choice.  My heart goes out for Travon's family.  There will always be cases like this, but not ncessarily as well publicized.  Life is never as simple as innocent and guilty, black and white.  We live in the greys, and as we muddle through it, we do the best we can.  :)

 

My friend posted this which was pretty informative pertaining to the trial.  Take from it what you will.  http://www.dlas.org/...merman-verdict/

Edited by Chivalrysae, 24 July 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

What I find funny out of all of this is the hypocrisy that people have when stuff like this happens. The trail itself isn't what is bothering me, but the people themselves that file threats against Zimmerman or leave threats on Voicemail even to people with "his" phone number. A group of people, tons of them, who want to threaten to "kill him" and "Cut his head off" and such like that.

Is this really what society has become? And here we have them accusing Zimmerman being a murderer yet here they are threatening to do an even worse act of hatred just because they think he should have been killed. Meanwhile, Zimmerman did what he did not because he hated Travon Martin, but because he was trying to defend a town that was in heavy crime watch. Did anyone ever bother to ask why Travon was there in the first place and not at home studying or something like that?

 

[Nate River]

Is this really what society has become? And here we have them accusing Zimmerman being a murderer yet here they are threatening to do an even worse act of hatred just because they think he should have been killed. Meanwhile, Zimmerman did what he did not because he hated Travon Martin, but because he was trying to defend a town that was in heavy crime watch. Did anyone ever bother to ask why Travon was there in the first place and not at home studying or something like that?

Based on the texts and other social media (and prior criminal-related issues (like being found with a birlgary tool) suggests he wasn't that nice of guy. But as I don't feel I have enough evidence to condemn Zimmerman, I feel the same with Martin. The question for me...is who started the actual altercation. The friend of Martin who testified said that Martin confronted Zimmerman first, but that alone doesn't tell you how it became physical or if Zimmerman was telling the truth about Martin telling him was going to die. If that's true, then it's hard to feel for Martin, but we don't know that, so I am unfortable ripping Martin for this anymore that Zimmerman.

Criminal cases aren't like CSI or Law and Order. Sometimes, there just isn't enough evidence to be sure exactly what happened.

I believe the verdict was correct based on the weak evidence and I believe enough of Zimmerman's story (based on the available physical evidence) that I can't condemn him. But that lack of evidence is why I cannot condemn Martin either.

[James S Cassidy]

Based on the texts and other social media (and prior criminal-related issues (like being found with a birlgary tool) suggests he wasn't that nice of guy. But as I don't feel I have enough evidence to condemn Zimmerman, I feel the same with Martin. The question for me...is who started the actual altercation. The friend of Martin who testified said that Martin confronted Zimmerman first, but that alone doesn't tell you how it became physical or if Zimmerman was telling the truth about Martin telling him was going to die. If that's true, then it's hard to feel for Martin, but we don't know that, so I am unfortable ripping Martin for this anymore that Zimmerman.

Criminal cases aren't like CSI or Law and Order. Sometimes, there just isn't enough evidence to be sure exactly what happened.

I believe the verdict was correct based on the weak evidence and I believe enough of Zimmerman's story (based on the available physical evidence) that I can't condemn him. But that lack of evidence is why I cannot condemn Martin either.

Well, truth be told Nate, who is a nice person anymore? I could say that all these people who are threatening to kill Zimmerman and such are not "nice people." If we put everyone moment of bad each person has done and holds it against them, then none of us are saints. We are all sinners and we all should be punished for it.

However, my point is not whether you believe he is guilty or innocent, you can't lie and say that Travon was any better of a person. From some counts of people who knew Travon, some say he was a bad kid. I think this is the problem I see here is so many want to condemn Zimmerman for being this "bad person" yet these same people want to do the most hateful things to him that make what Zimmerman did seem light. "He's a murderer." Yeah, well you're being a terrorist. You're treating him like he was Jack the Ripper or Jeffrey Dahmer or something.

It's just...do people even realize what they do anymore? I have seen people cry racism when it doesn't even exist, because they themselves are racist. I have people preach tolerance and yet are intolerant of other people. I understand people want to do the right thing, but if Zimmerman was found not guilty then he is not guilty. It is a tragedy, but it was an incident that got out of hand because two men only agreed on violence to solve their problem. If Travon was beating Zimmerman up, then it should be expected that Zimmerman would have defended himself. This is what we call a grey line where both men were wrong.

 

 

 

[Strangelove]

What I find funny out of all of this is the hypocrisy that people have when stuff like this happens. The trail itself isn't what is bothering me, but the people themselves that file threats against Zimmerman or leave threats on Voicemail even to people with "his" phone number. A group of people, tons of them, who want to threaten to "kill him" and "Cut his head off" and such like that.

Is this really what society has become? And here we have them accusing Zimmerman being a murderer yet here they are threatening to do an even worse act of hatred just because they think he should have been killed. Meanwhile, Zimmerman did what he did not because he hated Travon Martin, but because he was trying to defend a town that was in heavy crime watch. Did anyone ever bother to ask why Travon was there in the first place and not at home studying or something like that?

 

 

I hate to tell you, but it isn't what society has become...this is the society we live on right now.

[James S Cassidy]

 

I hate to tell you, but it isn't what society has become...this is the society we live on right now.

We've gone full circle actually because there was a time when things looked okay for a while. I still remember the 90s. When things like this stayed pretty much to a minimum. I mean, we had problems too, but did anyone think that any of it was a racial crime? Like the OJ trial. Did anyone think "Oh, this is a hate crime cause OJ killed white people because he hates white people." No. That was silly.

 

Honestly though, you don't need to tell me anything. Who you need to tell is the society that is full of these hypocrites who seems to still believe we live back in the 1800s.

You'd think after, I don't know, several wars and life lessons and constantly teacher history about the civil war people would have learned their lesson. Apparently, growing up in this world turns you cynical.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 July 2013 - 12:31 AM.

[Branden]

I think the most important thing to remember is that there's a thing called reasonable doubt. Even if you're 90% sure somebody did something, you can't convict them of it. As they always say, they'd rather let 10 guilty men go free than put 1 innocent man in prison. And quite frankly  there was obvious bias in the courtroom. The thing that hurts the most about this is the public's reaction. Racial division has nothing to do with this case, and the media is only making things worse every opportunity they get. It's just divide and conquer all over again, and the weak minded fools buy into it without thinking.