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Bail o' Lies

Member Since 06 Apr 2015
Offline Last Active Today, 12:44 PM

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In Topic: Naruto: Sasuke's Story-The Uchiha and the Heavenly Stardust: Chapter 7

Today, 03:48 AM

So Kishimoto really did a Bad Work Showing Sakura loving Sasuke into a point she was willing to abandon Naruto and the Village to follow him and "red herring" pairing become most popular than the main one.

The SS moments and mainly the chapter 181 was extremely unnecessary for a shonen manga.
Puting Hinata in this love triangle by making her declaration too.


Like i Said the big three pairings had chances.
Kishimoto tried to secure the pairing fans until the last moment in this messy.


About the Heroine and love interest thing.

Bulma was the Main Heroine in DB she didn't ended up with Goku.

Sora was the main heroine in Digimon and she didn't ended up with Taichi (Ironically these pairings remembers SS with the Main Heroines marrying the Rival)

Rukia was the main heroine in Bleach and didn't ended up with Ichigo.

Nami in OP didn't care about Romance much less Luffy

This argument doens't work very well.




I guess Kishimoto could have made a open ending if the shippuden continuation still was focused in the current generation.

 But since Boruto needs Ccildren. Kishimoto was obligated to decide pairings. But Kishimoto didn't count Ikemoto incompetence to write and drawn. I don't know to which degree Kishimoto is envolved and "supervisioning" Boruto.  But Boruto sucks...

Kishimoto seems to be the Boruto manga's idea guy. If ikemoto gets stuck he asks Kishi and he gives him an idea off the top of his head. Or. Ikemoto gets an idea for his story Kishimoto gives a justification to make it work.


Apparently the opening scene was Kishi's idea. Which admittedly the casual anime watchers I know said that it actually got them all interested after first. Before its boring story drove them away. He also probably push the cyborg ninja and the scientific ninja tools as he wanted to do a sci-fi manga but he was stuck on Boruto for awhile.  


Beside that what is most likely:

Karma seal. Ikemoto makes it, kishi probably justified why it looks like Tsunade/Sakura's forehead seal. Theirs is based off it.

Baryon mode. Ikemoto wanted a new one wing angle super mode transformation for Naruto. Kishi thought up suicide nuke mode.

Shinjutsu. ikemoto wanted new abilities that would make his characters better than Kishimoto's. Kishimoto probably helped come up with the concept.


Though it is basically a guessing game of what came from who.


Yes, and that scene is portrayed negatively and showed how badly her feeling for Sasuke were influencing her in a negative way. That way to show how much Naruto's influence was a positive on her.


The big three parings was a Western thing Kishi didn't know about until years into the story. Hinata was not important to the story until Kishi's first editor Yahagi was replaced right before the Pein arc.


You chose ones that already knew about the Heroine/love interest understanding and tried messing around with it some even still suffering for it.


One Piece. Nami is still considered the love interest of Luffy. From what I understand even somewhat officially. Just they aren't interested in doing anything with that because Oda both doesn't want to focus on that type of romance and saw what it did to Kishi.


Digimon. intentionally went against it and constantly has to deal with people not being over it. To the point that the mess that was Digimon Tri, was an attempt to deal with it.


Bleach. Kubo always wanted Ichigo/Orihime & Rukia/Renji and made it pretty blatant throughout the story. Even then before heading off the final battle the story had to repeatedly beat it into the readers head those were happening. Also if their is a sequel continuation. I think it pretty clear Kazui will be the lead and Ichika will be the love interest/heroine


Dragon Ball. Originally a one arc story about a boy and a girl traveling a mystic land in search of wish granting orbs. Romance was not intended...at least between those two. Toriyama had to basically force Chichi onto Goku because that's was the only way he could perceive Goku getting with anyone. Also during Gohan's brief stint as the Hero, he almost immediately got a Heroine/Love interest with Videl. Also, Trunks focus arc right now? Love interest/Heroine is Mai.

In Topic: Naruto: Sasuke's Story-The Uchiha and the Heavenly Stardust: Chapter 7

Yesterday, 11:37 PM


First i wans't trying to gaslight anoyone just saying facts.
Honestly you people really need to stop thinking  NS Canon =  Main Heroine.

Sakura was in Team 7 sealing Kaguya in the final arc. Not Hinata.
Hinata has no importance in Bort Manga aside randomlys slapping Kawaki.
Hinata wasn't important in Salad Gaiden who fully focused in the rival Family. Ignoring SasuSaku. Uchiha Clan (Which Sakura is part now) was much more important to Kishimoto than Naruto/Hinata or Naruto's own clan.
Hinata didn't gained a Full Manga.
Hinata isn't even promoted in the 20y trailler special.
Sakura even have much more novels focused on her.

Kishi isn't stupid to call his main characters Toxic.
By the Same logic the Sasuke/Naruto  was the pinacle of toxity and this duo was the reason behind manga sucess. The only thing that he said that Sakura was a bad woman for him if she move on from Sasuke (The Point of the Fake Confession) and he felt contrived to write about Romances. Kishimoto already said he doesn't know or like to write romances. That why he always avoided to write About deliberate romance and let for novels/Pierrot fully developed the Pairings.  Where was stated the Sarada Gaiden was a OneShot and Kishimoto only made a Full volume because Sexist Acusations? Now i want the Source. Not some Random Twiiter/Facebook with some fake/biased Interview .

Hinata was  some Producers Favorite in Pierrot.
if you people really think Hinata was more important than Sasuke/Sakura/Naruto to Kishimoto and he only made SS canon to help the poor Hinata Sama. You are all deluding yourselves.
The own Protagonist was ignored much more in his manga and can't even gain proper a Win in the final because Kishimoto's love for Sasuke...
NS was open with Kushina's parallel.
SS  was Open Since 181 with contant reminders by Sakura's feelings depeding only by Sasuke's return.
NH by Hinata confession.
SasuKarin was a Joke.

SS was Popular in Japan and Kishimoto thought was Hinata popular in West Side. It was a Win/Win situation for him at least more than NaruSaku and SasuKarin/Sasuke alone
(Ikemoto ruined Boruto with his boring Story. Not even Sakura being Naruto's HouseWife is enough to save Bort Series.)

In Japan, the heroine and love interest is synonymous. There was an ad for the last in Japan with Sakura asking if Hinata is the heroine now? So at the time of the last Hinata had replaced Sakura as the heroine of Naruto. It was only after poor sales did Sakura get her position back, slowly.


If not gaslighting than historical revisionisms. You are looking at current data and trying to use that to overwrite what happened in the past. "They are focusing on Sakura and SS now must mean that they always focused on Sakura and SS. They never threw her aside for Hinata." When that is simply not the case.


The Salad gaiden was not SS focused or at least how you clearly see it as. It was made to show kishimoto was not sexist but having a female lead and to vent his frustrations and dislike he has towards SS. Even SS fans at the time felt the manga was treating their pairing negatively and nH mocked them over it. It wasn't till the anime arc with heavy rewrites that it appealed to SS fans.


Boruto is built on the back of Hinata's popularity. Its failing is why they are doing their current actions. If it had succeeded, they would likely never adapted this story to manga form. The only characters that have been important in that manga are Nail, Bolt, Sasuke, Shikamaru, and Naruto. The rest of the cast old and new barely exist most of the time.


He did call Sakura's feeling for Sasuke an addiction and their romance toxic and cliché. He knew about its popularity, but it alone was not enough to switch from NS.


Hinata was not important to Kishimoto and he didn't get her appeal when he was writing the manga. He left it to the anime to develop nH because they supported it. So, they must know what people liked about it.


Of course Kishimoto has likely regretted his decision to go with it. Half of Samurai 8's story was just going on and on about how its would never change the main romantic pairing. SS was not popular enough for Kishimoto to abandon NS for it. It took years of pressure and being told nH was what his fans really wanted for him to go through with it.


If you are a Sakura fan you should just enjoy the irony, that she was thrown away only for them to crawl back to her. Instead of trying to convince people that she was never abandon and this was always part of some master plan by kishimoto. 


You can like/support SS as much as you want. However,there is a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting Bail's comment and I would point to Kishimoto's own claim that he never saw Sakura as being anything more than a "Kiba" level character.


Obviously,this is inconsistent horse sh-t, but it does buttress Bail's point pretty nicely. For whatever reason, a corporate decision to ditch Sakura and promote Hinata was made at some point during the war arc (or land of iron arc if we are being honest). I'm guessing they thought it would improve the sales of The Last and Boruto.

The Pein and Iron arc felt he was listening to bad advice from his editor. During the war arc it felt like he was going back and forth between them with favoritism towards Sakura. It wasn't till near the end that Hinata won.

In Topic: The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Yesterday, 10:45 PM

Did anyone watched the 20y anniversary especial?
Most of the Sakura Moments was in the video while Hinata was completely forgotten even the NH moments.
Looks like Pierrot was forced to show Sakura as the main heroine and Hinata as a side Character







Yeah. I think Nos linked it in one of my summary topic. It was one of the obvious sign to me that Hinata had fall out of favor because it avoid what would be considered her big moments. Even those two could be considered Neji's moments. When normally they would focus on any Hinata scene they could find.


If that is the case, certain lines Junko herself voiced make no sense! Naruto thinks love is like fruit/Ramen, but is afraid to express these feelings to Sakura due to his failure to keep his promise to bring Sasuke back? What about Naruto's POAL scene where he claims to understand exactly how Sakura feels? Was Naruto comparing all of that crying from Sakura to love/infatuation with fruit? WTF Junko!!!!

Junko is the VA of the main character and has well known statements that makes it clear she does not agree with the companies' decisions. Companies hate when people do this and force people that do this to make statements that support the company's decisions. In hopes, of ending people uses said person's comments to show even people working on it think the company made a poor decision. 

In Topic: The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

01 February 2023 - 10:46 PM

Oh so Sakura also gained a lot of support from One Piece/other anime fandoms? I didn't see this info anywhere but if it is indeed true, even if it's just for the sake of trolling the toxic Naruto fandom then I say thank you for that hahah


It's funny that other fandoms are doing this, guess that it's well known around the anime community how the Naruto fandom is bad and most probably, people know how bad the story turned out mostly because of it. Probably some of these voters are also old Naruto fans so they already knew but again, wouldn't be surprised if the news was spread on how bad the Naruto fandom is and knowing about the voting poll, decided to mess with it. 


Personnally, I voted for Sakura, not because I like what she has become (couldn't care less about this fangirl-over-Sasuke Sakura) but because I still love the Sakura before they kittened her up past the Pain arc and removed her as the main heroine in the OG story because of the Hinata popularity in the west. So yeah, overall, it's to troll the Naruto fandom that I did that mostly so old Naruto fans that are in other anime fandoms ddid also the same to troll the Naruto fandom.


Also, talking about the fandom being toxic, can't help but to include the dirty tricks the executives of the franchise are pulling even after all these years just to boost the sales. In my opinion, the whole Sasuke Retsuden would have made more sense if it was done closer to let's say, Gaiden since SS didn't have a positive image because of it. Of course, knowing that the executives didn't care about Sakura probably explains things but last time I checked, SS was and is somehow still popular so if they knew about it, why not boosting the sales with more SS materials then? With NH/Hinata, again, they play dirty tricks too to boost sales of Boruto because the sales are dopping drastically over the years  and with the SS boost thanks to Sasuke Retsuden, they feels the need to suddently make Hinata poping out of nowhere in the manga (and probably I presume, NH with it) because she is the reason of Boruto's existence.


Talking about another dirty trick, yesterday I heard Junko made a comment comparing Naruto's love for Sakura vs Hinata, like his love for Sakura is like llove for fruits while with Hinata, it's the real deal, like him finally understanding a girl. This is most probably another dirty tricks of these executives, using Junko since she's still in contract with them, to validate NH because people see this parring still in a bad way, even after all theese years. 


Overall, I see these dirty tricks as damage control over the dying franchise on their parts and again, it's pathetic that they are still pull these tricks even after all these years  :facepalm:

I assume Therece is either seeing comments on twitter, tictok or looking in other forums to get this information and is hopefully not making it up.


The Sarada gaiden was originally a one shot. but then Kishimoto heard people considered him a sexist. So to prove he wasn't he made her one-shot a ten chapter gaiden to show her off. Its intention was to introduce Salad not promote SS. As they were in the middle of preparing for Boruto's launch.


The reason they are doing this stuff now is. Naruto was once the most popular internationally successful manga IP ever (not counting Dragonball), and it did it in a time where no other manga IP was really able to succeed in the international market. Now streaming has taken off and any manga/anime IP can succeed greater than Naruto did back during that drought. So why is Naruto-Boruto floundering? It should be leading in the international sales and making them more money. After 6 years of giving Ikemoto and Boruto a chance, they finally put out feelers being the Mirai and the SS side manga. Which instantly outshined Boruto. So they did this poll and, what do you know, the old Heroine when it used to be so successful, that they replace, is one of the most popular characters in the world. The Hinata slapping Nail was to try to boost her image so hopefully she surpass her in the poll.


VAs are expected to make statements supporting current pairings.


Sadly that is all they will ever do is pull dirty tricks. I do fear that the executives will try the mess with the numbers and make Hinata closer to number one. I mean, with Hinata not doing so well, this has to be something that the ones who pushed Hinata so hard she was so universally liked, seeing how she wasn't even at number one, must be really setting off the ones who tricked Kishi into thinking Sakura wasn't liked.


Like you, I voted for Sakura for the same reason, and I didn't want Hinata to win. Because of what she and her fans have done to Naruto and what they are still doing to it. Retrospective Greg said it best in his Rise and Fail of Naruto video how even in the game Hinata was treated as this sweet little innocent angel, and the other girls were treated as demons.

The executives have no reason to. They want to figure what character is popular, so they can make the big bucks again. They are tried of holding up Hinata if she isn't bringing in the sales.


Oh believe me I know, what still surprise me is that they are doing these specific dirty tricks now to help boost the sales instead of doing it earlier, knowing that the sales of their products were dropping drastically over the years?


Maybe they've done other dirty tricks like this before that I'm not aware of since I was MIA since 2016 regarding new information on Naruto/Boruto stuff but I find it odd that they do those tricks now instead of doing it closer to the Naruto ending or Gaiden, for example, were the franchise was still strong and would have given more power to these moves they pulled about NH/SS/Hinata. Why wait for the whole 20th anniversary celebration with voting polls (which is, again, another of their dirty tricks) to revive sales that had been weak for years?


It's like they know they kittened up but dont know how to fix the situation and wait for a big event like the 20th anniversary to make one last move to save the day. boosting SS/NH/Hinata when there was nothing for years for SS/NH/Hinata, knowing that all of these have a bad reputations since the last of their real significance appearance makes these moves even more stupid.


Anyway, it's a never ending circle of bad decisions after bad decisions, desperate attempts before Boruto end, regardless of the why now instead of earlier.

Pretty much. They went along with nH because they were told it was internationally popular. They gave Boruto 6 years to grow in hopes it would bring in the money. It hasn't. So they are doing these projects to figure out what was popular in Naruto. Apparently Sakura. So they might go back to her.

In Topic: Naruto: Sasuke's Story-The Uchiha and the Heavenly Stardust: Chapter 7

01 February 2023 - 10:22 PM

At this point I'm more convinced to think SS was the main pairing and NH the side one.

Sasuke was the author Favorite Character and Japan favorite as well.  SS are enormous more popular than NH. Kishimoto simply cannot let Sasuke die, forever alone or without a newborn Uchiha for new generations. So Sakura was the obvious choice for him

While Kishimoto gave Hinata to Naruto as a consolation prize since Pierrot convinced him Hinata was the most popular character in west. Kishi didn't even bother do draw any conclusion to NaruHina in manga, let SP doing whatever they want in The Last and still totally ignored Hinata in his only Naruto Volume after ending to write about Uchiha Family.



NaruSaku AU? I think at this point it's hard this type of fanservice for a uncertain fanbase who left 7 years ago.
This only will PISS OFF SS/NH fanbase and they really needs these fans for Boruto

Stop trying to gaslight people.


Kishimoto has made it clear in certain interviews that Sakura was removed from the position of heroine/love interest because she was perceived to be unpopular. He has never liked SS, calling toxic, and cliché with no real interest in exploring it. Originally, Sasuke was suppose to get with Karin.


Kishimoto doesn't get the appeal of nH, but was told it what his fans wanted. nH was consider to be internationally popular far more than either NS or SS. So, he left it up to SP because they were supporters of it, therefor would hopefully know how to make it work because they were so invested in it.


If Sakura was not removed from her position, NS would have happened. Once she was removed SS happened to put her somewhere so it wasn't seen as being completely thrown away.


The salad gaiden was originally suppose to be a one-shot, but it became 10 chapters because Kishimoto was told a lot of people consider him sexist. So to prove he was not he decided to put more focus on the new female heroine of the sequel by turning her one-shot into a mini-series gaiden. If you think just because he did 10 chapters means he likes SS you didn't read that gaiden as he ran it through the mud before awkwardly resolving it lazily in the last chapter.


If he wanted SS to happen, why is it so awful and negatively portrayed when he writes it? He had nothing to do with this story outside of maybe the cover.


As for the manga, lets see when the number finally come in.