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Kishi's New Sci-fi Series: Samurai 8


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#281 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 10:30 PM

I assume Anna and Hachi are still going to get together unless he is abandoning her and planing on writing someone else as Hachi's "True" fated princess or make some bs about how, you have to decided your own fate even in love, to justify another girl. This is a desperate attempt to save Samurai 8 by adding spice to the story through romantic conflict. Its just, he doesn't know how to do it because he doesn't know why Naruto was a success.

 

You said Kishi was being tepid with it, and he was, but the thing is that that would have made it even better. It was (or seemed to be) BUILDING to something. And it could have been completely devastating. In a good way. Like with how the anime constantly inundates the viewer with sentimental flashbacks. There would have actually been LICENSE to do that. It would have been EARNED. And if he clearly locked it in before that, the effect would not have been the same.

 

Instead he made the resolution to his 15 years of work tepid instead. Just flat. You feel nothing. And the war arc was so tedious and boring. And the reader gets NOTHING for it.

 

It wasn't even rushed like Bleach. He just gave up at the last hurdle.

 

And if he really expected the Japanese fanbase to buy into his next manga, then I'm concerned for his sanity.

As I said above, he doesn't get why or what made Naruto successful. So, he doesn't know how to make Samurai 8 successful other then to just do his own thing, hope it works, and scramble when that doesn't work.

 
Beyond that. Why do you think so many in Japan openly love NS? Naruto was unique in the romance because it developed over time. In most manga the main character does something for the heroine near the beginning sometime in the first chapter that makes her fall in love with him for the rest of the manga where they then get married at the end. In Naruto it was that slow development that people did like but there came a point where kishi needed to go yes they are a couple now at some point. He didn't. So, his editor decided for him. And it has as well all know destroyed his reputation with everyone except the nH/SS fans who pirate Naruto.


#282 Phantom_999

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 01:18 AM

Well minor romantic conflict at that, from what I gather and it's not too serious. Hachi is just feeling a bit insecure about "the rival" and Ann is well, hoping that he would see her as more than just "his destined princess" I suppose? On the subject of creating a new princess for Hachi and throwing the current couple to the wayside, possible. And only because a writer CAN DO that at any moment if they so please. I'm not saying it will happen nor should it, but that window will always be there until the story's end, which is why I always make sarcastic, ironic remarks about it. But again as you have defended and Lucky has defended, Hachi X Ann is being b-*beep* slapped across the audience's faces repeatedly. So for the moment, Hachi X Ann it is. Future possibilities aside, the story is cementing it left, right and centre.
 
And as I have come to realize, Kishi did not know what made Naruto popular because he was usually copying something else, or doing what Yahagi told him was popular, more or less. The story did grow into its own thing of course but I will always remember sources stating he was always looking at the success of other series and tried to replicate them. Among his prototypes of manga concepts as I recall were about things such as magic like Harry potter or about Samurai and bushido in general like Rurouni Kenshin, (as I recall from one  of the earliest if not the very first made book before I threw away my copy) but he felt his ideas were inferior to those so he scrapped them. And never forget Naruto was conceptualized by his own admitted love of ramen. He had nothing else going for it at the beginning beyond that.

Edited by Phantom_999, 17 February 2020 - 06:36 PM.

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#283 DrK

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 02:12 AM

I can't decide whether Kishi's career is more sad or more embarrassing.



#284 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:42 AM

I can't decide whether Kishi's career is more sad or more embarrassing.

Depends. What are you looking at and how you are looking at it.



#285 LuckyChi7

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 10:51 PM

Alrighty time for the indepth discussion between Hachimaru and Ann that I promised from this week's chapter:

 

 

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#286 totherpage95

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 10:57 PM

Daruma: Student of the Great Yasha, The Second Generation Head master of the Vajrayaksa-style of the Kongo-Yahsa School one of the four great schools created by Fudo Myo-O which special ability is the creation of Juu weapons for combat, his key holder is Makami a Lion-dog which was stolen from him by the Ususama school so he now uses Yoken, his princess is the great Baku, using a single soul sword as his primary weapon along with all the fuu weapons his school allows him to create...Did you get that?

is this just rip off bleach



#287 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 11:04 PM

is this just rip off bleach

Oh I wish.



#288 totherpage95

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 11:15 PM

does ann's brother look like obito with those band aids on his face



#289 LuckyChi7

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 02:20 PM

Volume 4's Cover came out:

 

ERwQnqiUYAAGabI.jpg


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#290 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 03:03 PM

w9r7uIX.jpg

 

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? Looks very similar, could the scene above be how he truly wanted to write Sakura-Chan's confession? I believe her confession was real, but it was done before she was ready and aware of her feelings. But, this could be how he wanted to write the confession, with no confusion in it. Where no one could question if she was being genuine. Also, Yamato's conflicting actions with Chapter 257 and this chapter was very weird as well. He knew she was starting to love Naruto, but was upset when she decided to say it in this chapter, did he know it wasn't the right time? 


Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 28 February 2020 - 02:39 AM.

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Always have the spirit and the guts to never ever give up no matter what.


#291 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 05:49 AM

Kishimoto wrote the scene in Naruto the way he wanted to write it. What happened was that the editors learned that Western fans considered it a false confession. Kishi tried to explain Sakura's position better but instead made it worse. And that is what slowly lead to him losing control of the romance in that manga.

 

Here, his editor is green so he can do what ever he wants, and he has for the last 5-6 years been learning that their wasn't that much a problem with the NS romance. So here, he is calling back to that scene so that his readers draw parallels with this confession.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 March 2020 - 08:08 AM.


#292 LuckyChi7

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 02:16 PM

For whatever reason Samurai 8 was trending on twitter, and its confirmed that the manga will end with the next chapter.

 

 

Kinda ironic that the big Bleach Announcement led to this.   


Edited by LuckyChi7, 18 March 2020 - 02:36 PM.

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#293 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 03:30 PM

Got the axe?

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#294 LuckyChi7

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 03:35 PM

Got the axe?

 

 

Yeah, it's kind of unfortunate, but this was something I did suspect over the last few months.

 

 

HachiAnn moments from the penultimate final chapter: 

 

 

 

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#295 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 03:50 PM

Yeah it is unfortunate, but not unexpexted. Bail even said apparently because it performed very poorly its only hope at staying in serialization was if other new fresh series were doing worse than it. And that did not seem so likely, so yeah. Well, post the last chapter then when it hits

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 March 2020 - 03:51 PM.

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#296 LuckyChi7

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 04:10 PM

Yeah it is unfortunate, but not unexpexted. Bail even said apparently because it performed very poorly its only hope at staying in serialization was if other new fresh series were doing worse than it. And that did not seem so likely, so yeah. Well, post the last chapter then when it hits

 

 

Will do :D 


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#297 rikakim94

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 10:25 PM

Im not surprised that his new manga didn't do well. The story had too much exposition, characters are nothing more than flat cliche tropes, I also feel like kishi's storytelling in general feels outdated and rushed.



#298 Phantom_999

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 10:42 AM

It wasn’t very engaging from what I could tell. Nothing really stood out in general. To keep an audience engaged you either have to give an intriguing story worth investing the time in or give the Protagonist a sympathetic and defining goal that makes the audience want to root for said protagonist. As far as I could tell Kishi did neither. :mellow:

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#299 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 01:12 PM

Yeah it is unfortunate, but not unexpected. Bail even said apparently because it performed very poorly its only hope at staying in serialization was if other new fresh series were doing worse than it. And that did not seem so likely, so yeah. Well, post the last chapter then when it hits

What was keeping it alive for so long was two things. One, Kishimoto was the mangaka, and two, there were about 3-4 series last year that were up for cancellation before it and WSJ had hit it limit of how many they cancelled per year. That gave this manga more time, but really because of how the manga was done it only let him finishes of the series as quickly as possible.

 

For whatever reason Samurai 8 was trending on twitter, and its confirmed that the manga will end with the next chapter.

 

Kinda ironic that the big Bleach Announcement led to this.   

Its treading because it was announce the next chapter will be the last chapter and the Pro-ending fans are trying to justify why it being cancelled. Mainly, it wasn't bad and if only it could have hit Western shore sooner it would have survived, and Japanese have poor taste. 

 

It wasn’t very engaging from what I could tell. Nothing really stood out in general. To keep an audience engaged you either have to give an intriguing story worth investing the time in or give the Protagonist a sympathetic and defining goal that makes the audience want to root for said protagonist. As far as I could tell Kishi did neither. :mellow:

It had a simple goal, find the keys to unlock Pandora's Box to bring about peace to the galaxy. Then he made it complex in order to tie Hachi to the story; he and his brother are the keys and his existence prevents them from becoming such also their another box.

 

The main thing I will say is that was a problem story-wise was, he was too focus on getting into space. Or. He was too focus on getting the story started to focus on establishing the story's setting. Vaguely here what happened before going into space. An intro chapter. A few chapters hanging out with that kid, Ten chapters of Hachi/Anna while the villain was coming. (In these chapters also Daruma sometime gives lectures to Hachi about basic Samurai know how, and him questioning Hachi's father.) Then space. Even going into space was pretty much just, well the prologue is now over so lets get the story actually started. This manga should not have gone into space before at least chapter 50 and those chapters should have been use to establish the setting and the main cast. By having Hachi explore his home world, learn more about aspect of the society of this setting, interact with as many people as possible to see more of his personality, and learn from Daruma. Instead, all this story has is a bare bone setting and most of the information comes from a talking-cat that never stops lecturing.

 

Also, it does not help that kishimoto made the primary abilities of this setting multi layered with the locker-ball, cyborg body, soul sword, schools, princess bonds, robot animal mount/armor, and war god among other things. 

 

Most of the cast isn't bad in concept, but without much focus they are all very bland. Daruma is a frustrated mentor that has a tortured background but not much focus. Hachi is too idealized. And Anna is too much like Hinata as the heroine. Those two clown that join them in space are pretty much are teenage Madara(mixed with Suigetsu) and Hashirama(mixed with Sai).

 

The romance was honestly more interesting to see how much of it was NS inspired, and to see how much the ending & backlash of Naruto's ending affected him. The problem is the characters that made up the couple weren't that interesting so it was hard to invest into unless you were trying. Also the ten chapters he spent on that could have been used to focus on other things especially so early into the story.

 

Also, the art. Its parts look nice, but it was too cluttered, which made it hard to know what was going on.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 20 March 2020 - 01:21 PM.


#300 LuckyChi7

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 03:52 PM

I know for a lot of people it was the first few chapters that didn't really get people on board with the manga because it was a lot of information all at once which is something I can agree on. I remember rereading it a more couple of times to get what it was saying. 

 

I could understand from a writing perspective with what Kishi wanted to do, and perhaps it could've worked in another magazine just not in Weekly Shonen when it comes to the target audience.  This might just be me when I say this, but Kishi should've slowly introduced these concepts in a very in a simple way, and over time it becomes complex. 

 

 

Some people though are kinda going overboard like oh it's not like Naruto, theres no love triangle (don't necessarily think Kishi would've wanted it since he regrets doing that based off the interview he did back in 2017), theres no bumbling idiot, and I'll say this;  I do commend Kishi for at least trying to do something different. Sure it may've been too complex for its own good, but I think that falls more in line with execution more than anything. 

 

Perfect example that comes to mind for me is Hunter x Hunter where the storytelling from the beginning is simplistic when it comes to people wanting to become Hunters, and as the story progressed you got introduced to things like nen, and what not. 

 

 

I would even say maybe look at what Edens Zero is doing because simple storytelling, and characters that are slowly developing over time. Same thing could be said about concepts too because all you knew was that it seemed like a simply fantasy story before the space aspect kicked in. It's mainly what I found myself enjoying most about Edens Zero, and something I think Kishi could've taken into account.  You could also attribute that to Edens Zero being in a different publishing magazine, and because Hiro has two successful series under his belt.... Well I would argue it's one legendary series being Rave Master, and one wasted potential series being Fairy Tail.  Edens Zero so far to me is proving to be alot more than what Fairy Tail was going for, and that's what makes it great especially the current arc we are in.

 

 

But back on point, there are certain areas that Kishi has improved in, but there are areas he'll need to work on and whatever his next series is hopefully he takes that into account. 


Edited by LuckyChi7, 20 March 2020 - 03:54 PM.

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