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What was the point of having Tobi act stupid initially?


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#1 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:39 PM

:confused:


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#2 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:01 PM

Kishimoto didn't know exactly what he wanted to do with him? *Shrug* Remember at one point he didn't want tobi to be obito because he felt it was too obvious. Despite the fact that I think Obito's original name was Bito(... or tobi was Otobi? It was something like that.) before the editor (yahagi, I believe) order him to change it. Then another editor told him to go with Tobi=Obito.



#3 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:40 PM

Yeah, I don't know. It lasted so short too...

#4 gamma

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:49 PM

That persona died as quick as inner-sakura..

Edited by lux, 14 August 2017 - 11:54 PM.


#5 Qia

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:47 AM

I guess to not make it soo obvious that this mysterious could end up being one of the final villains. Or perhaps this is a reflection of Obito's personality before he lost Rin. A pretty humorous guy you know?  :sweat: I guess it also, if you didn't figure out that Tobi was this seriously twisted guy Obito, then it provides more of shock factor perhaps. Or it's meant to show how seriously deranged he became after losing Rin. Not sure. I'm in the process of reading over certain parts of the manga atm, not for pairing's sake but to understand some of the arguments made about the other bad aspects of the ending for the manga and such. So yea. I'll be able to give a better opinion then.


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#6 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:03 AM

I guess to not make it soo obvious that this mysterious could end up being one of the final villains. Or perhaps this is a reflection of Obito's personality before he lost Rin. A pretty humorous guy you know?  :sweat: I guess it also, if you didn't figure out that Tobi was this seriously twisted guy Obito, then it provides more of shock factor perhaps. Or it's meant to show how seriously deranged he became after losing Rin. Not sure. I'm in the process of reading over certain parts of the manga atm, not for pairing's sake but to understand some of the arguments made about the other bad aspects of the ending for the manga and such. So yea. I'll be able to give a better opinion then.

That's an understandable out-of-universe reason, but what was the in-universe justification? I can't think of any and am pretty sure a reason was never given.

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#7 Qia

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:09 AM

That's an understandable out-of-universe reason, but what was the in-universe justification? I can't think of any and am pretty sure a reason was never given.

Well...if Naruto's supposed to parallel certain people, like Jiraiya and Obito for instance, then maybe that's his usual personality. And like Naruto, when he puts his mind to something, he could be quite serious and dare I say smart. So it wasn't really a feint of him to act this way, basically? It's just who he is as a person and, if none of that Rin stuff had happened and he had survived and yada yada, we probably would have seen what a jokester he was. The little we saw of him as a young Obito isn't really enough to make a good conclusion because he was in the midst of war and such =/ But this is the best assumption I can make. This is especially so when you consider that Kakashi picked up that one habit of Obito's of reaching late nad making up really lame excuses for doing so. So he seems like a jokester. 


Edited by Qia, 15 August 2017 - 02:11 AM.

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#8 lupina

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

Probably not to rise suspicion of the other members of Akatsuki?

He was only using them to get closer to his own Goals anyway, so ...


"We live in a world that is so quick to convince us to ignore our feelings. Feeling stressed? Get a massage. Feeling angry? Go to the bar with your friends and blow off steam. Feeling lonely? Meet someone in cyberspace and have a conversation on the computer. Depressed? Take a pill. Anxiety? Take 2 pills. Feeling happy? Well, by George, don’t talk about that because no one likes a bragger. Same with being sad, no one likes a Debbie Downer. But, heaven FORBID, that you actually TALK about your feelings and process them in a healthy way."
 
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#9 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:52 AM

I think the twist came too quick.

#10 harry4e

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 10:49 PM

It was meant to be a front to get other members of Akatsuki to not take him seriously, and not suspect he is the true leader of the group, he was the loyal lackey of the group, (though I always found it odd that he was only lackey they had. it allowed his to move about freely, allowed him to interact with the other members and judge their true loyalty. However as soon as Negato died, there was no purpose for the ruse, he had to lost most of his members and if he wanted to manipulate Sasuke he needed to show his true strength.

 

My biggest issue was the disgraceful way he was treated like a hero. absolute joke, he killed thousands of people all because he lost one person...still pisses me off thinking about it.


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#11 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:27 PM

So the point of the Akatsuki, from Nagato's point of view is . . . world peace and Obitowants to keep the other Akatsuki members from learning his real agenda which is . . . world peace. :confused:  No . . . when I look at all of it in hindsight, I don't see any gain to playing dumb and not leading the group hand in hand. If anything, I think pre-Pain arc Nagato would've been onboard with the infinite tsukiyomi. Far more efficient than what he had in mind and seemingly permanent peace too. Now if Obito were Madara and had some agenda that opposed the akatsuki's goals, it'd be a different story.


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 16 August 2017 - 11:27 PM.

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#12 Qia

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:55 PM

So the point of the Akatsuki, from Nagato's point of view is . . . world peace and Obitowants to keep the other Akatsuki members from learning his real agenda which is . . . world peace. :confused:  No . . . when I look at all of it in hindsight, I don't see any gain to playing dumb and not leading the group hand in hand. If anything, I think pre-Pain arc Nagato would've been onboard with the infinite tsukiyomi. Far more efficient than what he had in mind and seemingly permanent peace too. Now if Obito were Madara and had some agenda that opposed the akatsuki's goals, it'd be a different story.

I think this is why Nagato and Konan were the only ones he was serious around. He didn't act stupid with them because they were probably all for his plan, even though they still didn't know his true plan, until meeting Naruto. 


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#13 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:10 AM

They didn't actually know Obito's plan, but he knew their plan. They just knew that he also wanted world peace since I think that's what he was selling to them before Yahiko died. It's been a few years since I read that part of Naruto. Remember they had their own plan to use the tailed beast as a super weapon to threaten the villages with. Most of the Akatsuki members didn't seem to know the plan or were following along either for protection the group provided them (since they are all missing/rouge ninja), or for their own reasons.

 

Saori can't remember

Deidari wanted to defeat Itachi.

Itachi wanted to keep an eye on Obito.

Kazaku money.

Hidan death.

Kisami amusement or want to discover the truth of the world.

Zetsu both a drone and the Big bad.



#14 Nate River

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:29 AM

It was meant to be a front to get other members of Akatsuki to not take him seriously, and not suspect he is the true leader of the group, he was the loyal lackey of the group, (though I always found it odd that he was only lackey they had. it allowed his to move about freely, allowed him to interact with the other members and judge their true loyalty. However as soon as Negato died, there was no purpose for the ruse, he had to lost most of his members and if he wanted to manipulate Sasuke he needed to show his true strength.

 

My biggest issue was the disgraceful way he was treated like a hero. absolute joke, he killed thousands of people all because he lost one person...still pisses me off thinking about it.

 

That begs the question....why did he feel the need to do that? What difference did it make whether they saw him as leader or not. It's not like anyone knew his true objective or had a meaningful way of figuring it out. In addition, Zetsu and Itachi would have known its an act. Abundance of caution? Maybe they don't join if the leader is unwilling to ID himself?

 

The ruse, I think, was mostly for the audience.



#15 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:52 AM

That begs the question....why did he feel the need to do that? What difference did it make whether they saw him as leader or not. It's not like anyone knew his true objective or had a meaningful way of figuring it out. In addition, Zetsu and Itachi would have known its an act. Abundance of caution? Maybe they don't join if the leader is unwilling to ID himself?

 

The ruse, I think, was mostly for the audience.

Pretty much. The only people that didn't know who he was was Deidari, Kisame, and the Zombie duo. Those two wouldn't have care. Kisame used to work for him and didn't care. So all he was doing was kittening with Deidari for a while.

 

The only thing he needed to hide was his plan since the IT was crazy even by the Akatsuki standards.



#16 harry4e

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:18 AM

 

That begs the question....why did he feel the need to do that? What difference did it make whether they saw him as leader or not. It's not like anyone knew his true objective or had a meaningful way of figuring it out. In addition, Zetsu and Itachi would have known its an act. Abundance of caution? Maybe they don't join if the leader is unwilling to ID himself?

 

The ruse, I think, was mostly for the audience.

 

It's to be underestimated,as a goofball sidekick he could move about freely, mingle with all the members, and get a idea of their loyalty.

 

It would also be more difficult to gain their trust, Specially with the likes of Kisami, Kakuzu, Sasori and even Orichimaru in the team, these all would be suspicious of the person who is claiming to be Madara. Orichimaru knows allot about the underbelly of Konoha, so he'd know the person behind the mask was not Madara, and even if he did, he'd dig deeper to try and find out the secret to his immortality. Sasori had his own spies so he'd be difficult to fool. Kisame has worked for him so he'd know who was behind the mask so while he'd be loyal, he'd also hold something over Obito which could be a problem, and Kisami very likely had met Madara in him prime, he would likely ask for proof.

 

There is also the fact that as a figure for a leader, someone with the Rinnigan who could destroy any of them little trouble, make much more sense than a one eyes man with a sharingan who's main party trick is jumping from one place to another, you have to wonder in a fight with Sasori who could control hundreds of puppets, or Kazami and his multiple heart string monsters, and Itachi, would Obito be able to win in a fight against them once they found out his trick.


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#17 Qia

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 10:36 PM

Now that I think about it, it also could have been spiral Zetsu doing all of that and not Obito, since spiral Zetsu is shown to have that sort of quirky personality. 


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#18 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 11:14 PM

Perhaps he meant to have flashback with Madara remembering how he used to act.






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