DrK

 

I made a thread here about this very subject a while back and even analyzed things panel by panel, but when you examine Sai's actions throughout this arc, it's as if he's three different people. His personality and justifications for talking to Sakura and Naruto contradict each other multiple times. It's as if someone decided to completely rewrite his characteristics at the last minute after seeing a bunch of fanboy/fangirl backlash towards his initial comments/observations about Naruto loving Sakura and her causing Naruto pain. Immediately in the chapter after he says this, he makes a dumb@ss non-sequitur comment about how everybody relies too much on Naruto as opposed to just Sakura and Shizune joins him by making a moronic unnecessary remark about how Naruto isn't just saving Sasuke because of his promise to Sakura. If memory serves me, I wanna say this took place in chapter 458 or 459. Either way, things go downhill from there.

 

To be fair, Sai was shown to slowly become more competent at reading people's actions even after his debut (based on a book he was reading). He made some surprisingly accurate observations with respect to how Sakura's fierce behavior towards Naruto was in actuality a testament to how much she cared about him. In a flashback in chapter 457, he's also shown rightfully coming to the conclusion that Naruto loves Sakura in light of how much he smiles towards her all the time. He didn't become a complete retard until the NH/SS got butthurt over his initial comments towards Sakura about Naruto's POAL. Then that entire arc went funhouse mirror all of the sudden.

 

EDIT: Here's the thread I'm talking about: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=16279

Sakura just had to be caltropped by herself or others every time she was starting to move away from the Sasuke thing. Because Kishi just didn't care for some reason.

Like, it's one thing if Sakura is not worth the effort. Maybe she wasn't. But you already gave the effort! You did the hard part. The rest would have been easy. And you just wasted it.

I didn't like how Sai told Naruto that Sakura was going to try to kill Sasuke because she loves Sasuke... And not even because he's saying she loves Sasuke. Just because how could Sai know this? Kishimoto dedicated so much time to show how socially stunted and emotionally almost retarded Sai was, then he's suddenly capable of reading that much into Sakura's actions?

He went from "smiling around someone means they are your friends" to that. Ham fisted.

 

 

I don't care about whether it was in self-defense. the message and meaning behind those actions are indicative to how far the relationship between Sasuke and his former team have fallen. All Sasuke cared about was himself at this point. I've said this before, Sasuke's character type at least has a soft spot for a girl the story is setting him up with at the very least and the girl would always be an an exception to his crosshairs, but lo and behold both Karin and Sakura were fair game to him and he did it without a shred of remorse. So I don't care about debating whether or not it was self defense on Sasuke part. This PSYCHOTIC, DYSFUNCTUIONAL, DISGUSTING dynamic should not have been made into a romantic relationship. Period

His proximity to terror and death is like poison for Sakura. The love letter ninja scene  was meant to illustrate that.

"If you like him, he must be a great guy"... Or whatever. Sakura will wither and die with a guy like that.

He wouldn't have said that to Karin. You'd expect the guy Karin likes to be a weird ass dude. At least I would.

"Hinata wins by doing nothing"

You know one of the arguments I hate seeing from the SS fandom when it comes to sasuke trying to kill Sakura during the Kage summit arc, is that due to Sakura trying to kill him first and he supposedly knows she is trying to kill him he is just doing self defence. Like regardless who is trying to kill who first they are still trying to kill each other and when I was talking to James about it last night, he pointed out even if you could argue for the first attempt being self defence the second attempt was clearly sasuke downright trying to kill Sakura by choking her and cutting her down with her own kunai. 

Well any reasonable self defense statute requires the person to be an active threat to your life. Sakura's intentions were no longer relevant after she lost the fight and was at his mercy.

Sasuke got a chance to take out a significant enemy and he was ready to take it at that time. It's far from the worst thing he did. It's not like Sakura would have been the only person he killed.

Like, I think the fact that Sasuke killed others is more damaging to SS than the fact that he merely TRIED to kill Sakura... Disregarding her own life is one thing. She's suppose to be a healer. It's dark, to say the least.

And why doesnt it since the connection between the host and the hosted spirit is the same?

What's the difference between extraction & suicide mechanics?

This is just a BS way to justify them retconning another plot mechanic from the old story.

Cuz in essence, be it suicide or extraction point still stands: the life of the host and hosted are intertwined and if you take one, you take the other as well.

Imagine if some random bijuu could just suicide rather than get caught by the Akatsuki. That would be the end of the plan right there.

Also if you're writing this, why not kill Naruto here? Does he really have something else meaningful to do? Wouldn't it be worth it to have a moment with some actual emotion?

Let's be real, Naruto is the only one who gives a crap about Kurama.

 So why does the audience and EVERYONE INVOLVED WITH NARUTO NEED assurance that the couples are in love and planned from the beginning? Can anyone answer me that?

This just gets worse as time goes on. The fact that it was a lie wasn't obvious to me when the manga ended. But coming back to it after a few years I saw things differently. Partly because my mindset was different reading it again, but I also had more information at that point. There was more written about it, and more unconvincing interviews and postcanon material that was awkward and terrible.

Someone who was doing so today would have even more to look at. For instance you could look at how Kishi handled the romance in the ill-fated Samurai 8 for instance, how he was so ham-fisted with what he was going for. This just makes it even more obvious. And it was already pretty bad.

At the end of the day it's just not a particularly good lie. A good lie is one that can withstand scrutiny. It's hard not to scrutinize things as time goes on. Like I didn't realize how bad the Star Wars sequels were when I first saw them either. Now I'm amazed at how awful they are.

 

I agree on Sakura being one of the greatest character. Why?

 

Because she's a mirror... she's a mirror to the humanity inside of us and the reality that we're nothing but mere human beings, not always a part of the elite.

 

And that ticked people off... cuz it reminded them of their own weakness. It reminded them of the hard work needed to change your status. And kids nowadays aren't used to hard work.

 

They want instant gratification which you usually get when you're an elite due to your status, so that's why they hated her.

 

She represented everything they hated in the world and themselves. Sakura wasn't their comfort character. She was the challenging one.

 

So they found comfort in the elite characters, because to them, everything due to the virtue of their elite statuses, meant finding the mental comfort.

 

Observing Sakura's phenomena from a social point of view is really interesting.

 

From a spiritual one, as well...

The failure of Sakura's character arc is probably the worst thing about Naruto. Seeing her arc properly resolved had the potential to be so satisfying  Someone who's weak, shallow, mediocre, annoying who becomes the total opposite of that. She was challenging and it was easy to hate her. But that all had a purpose and should have been worth it. It would have been really nice in the end.

If I end up talking to anyone about Naruto IRL I end up in the role of Morpheus from the Matrix: "What if I told you... That Sakura Haruno should have been one of the best characters ever?" It's a shock to people. Like "I always hated Sakura ever since I was 6 years old"  Yeah, so did I. But it wouldn't have mattered.

Take the red pill.

Of Course Kishi knew it was forced but he won't admit it. He has too much pride to admit he was wrong. Writers are like Coaches and politicians. They're the most stubborn people on Earth.

I mean, if the guy lied to his wife, he's not going to stop lying when it's just to a group of random faceless fans that he doesn't and never will know personally.

Both Naruto and Sakura are big self-sacrificers in the story. Naruto gives up everything over and over again for Sasuke. Even pursuing Sakura. 

 

And Sakura gave up everything for a partner/father who abandons her. She gave up her career to be a sahm mom. She gave up her chance at a normal life/family with a good partner/father to wait around for Sasuke.

Like I said... Disgusting and nauseating.

Exactly. She contributes nothing to the story. Her feelings went unanswered for the last 200 chapters. That line there was STUPID because when was it established that Naruto did  anything to impress Hinata?

Imagine if Sakura was about to fight someone and someone (maybe Tenten) was like "Don't try to act tough just because Rock Lee is here!" Imagine the level of disrespect to Sakura and whoever she actually likes (And here it doesn't matter whether it's Sasuke or Naruto or both) But imagine how kittening patronizing. As if Sakura (or Naruto) is not tough in their natural state but would be inspired to be so due to the presence of someone they never acknowledged as a romantic interest. Is there ANYONE here who would enjoy reading that or think it was funny?

All that line does is make Kiba seem detestable because of the lack of foundation. If you make fun of someone for supposedly liking someone when you know full well that the situation is that that person likes THEM, all you are doing is putting a battery in their back to express unequivocally that they don't and never have liked that person in that way. Which would obviously hurt their feelings. Don't get me wrong, even if Naruto hadn't been twisted into supposedly loving Hinata, he wouldn't have given in to that impulse. He's generally too nice to do that.

But not many real people are.

I've seen or been involved with this scenario playing out in real life... More than once. Not the exact same thing but quite similar. And that is generally what happens. So Kiba looks like garbage there. For many reasons.

 

 

lol, look at this kitten^^^ "Kiba recognized Naruto's feelings for Hinata before he did." was the caption. Kiba started to turn into an advocate. 

what about when Naruto recognizes his own feelings for Sakura-Chan? I guess that isn't valid. Or even someone like Sai can see it, it isn't valid. Or when Yamato and Ino comments on Sakura-Chan's growing feelings for Naruto?  But Kiba of all people is the one with the valid statements. Also, guess Naruto's girlfriend comment wasn't valid as well. 

I wish you would put these hideous manga panels in spoiler tags because they are just CRINGY to look at. That NH stuff is just obnoxious with how far out of left field it comes across. Like with Naruto trying to save Hinata from the IT... Yeah he sure set that up well! To be honest I don't understand how I went through any of the war arc NH development panels the first time without being frustrated at how insanely idiotic and childish it all was.

Even to a neutral fan this is terrible. It adds nothing to what is going on and you don't CARE to have Hinata be involved with what is going on because she is an EXTREMELY WEAK NINJA. You might be slightly interested in what Naruto thinks or feels about her but the situation can't possibly evolve because Hinata already made it 100% clear how she feels 600 and then 300 chapters ago. And Kishi didn't do anything with it because he DIDN'T WANT TO. And that is f***ing all.

The thing is it was not only Naruto who found Sakura attractive/pretty/desirable... Several characters did. And no one did that with Hinata... A lot of people think she would have been with Kiba but the fact is he never displayed an interest in her. At most he might have shown irritation that she was so obsessed with Naruto but there are many other good reasons why he might have reacted that way.

Hinata got all them boobs and no ass though. Sakura-Chan got both. No need for a switch.

Well Hinata's eyes are also devoid of color and warmth. While Sakura's are green.

But this is apparently a matter of taste (somehow)

My two cents. From what I remember all the way in Sarada's introduction, She playfully asked a group of small fries she was dealing with if their leader was "her type". That line does not remind me of Sakura at all.

Sakura operated under a principle of selfless devotion to whoever she loves. I think that if someone put a gun to her head and gave her the choice of either making a comment like that or going and becoming a nun I think she would become a nun. Or maybe just get shot.