54175 replies to this topic

[Moon_Girl]

funny i saw a shirt in hot topic yestersay of team 7 and it was naruto sakura yamato and sai

And yet Hot Topic was guilty of selling a NaruHina shirt shortly after the ending. It was an anime version of the manga cover of Naruto and Hinata holding hands. (Neji who in the background?)

[VanitasDS76491]

And yet Hot Topic was guilty of selling a NaruHina shirt shortly after the ending. It was an anime version of the manga cover of Naruto and Hinata holding hands. (Neji who in the background?)

really cause i hardly see any hinata stuff in stores i go to then again i don't shop at hot topic alot

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

really cause i hardly see any hinata stuff in stores i go to then again i don't shop at hot topic alot

A lot of it fizzled after The Last tanked and the lies spread by SP and the refusal of refunds too

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 08 May 2021 - 12:20 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

A lot of it fizzled after The Last tanked and the laws spread by SP and the refusal of refunds too

...The laws?

 

Anyways, after the ending they did try selling more Hinata products because she was the new Heroine and they thought she was popular. Then the backlash. By the time Boruto had started they had pretty much given up on her and just focused on keeping the franchise going.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 06 May 2021 - 10:15 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

...The laws?
 
Anyways, after the ending they did try selling more Hinata products because she was the new Heroine and they thought she was popular. Then the backlash. By the time Boruto had started they had pretty much given up on her and just focused on keeping the franchise going.

I was using my phone and meant lies

[TheFirstEvil100]

Ha, they will never give up on that worthless character, as they will keep trying to push Hinata.

[VanitasDS76491]

A lot of it fizzled after The Last tanked and the laws spread by SP and the refusal of refunds too

really they can do that funny cause naughty dog did that with the last of us 2 refusing to give refunds 

 

Ha, they will never give up on that worthless character, as they will keep trying to push Hinata.

I still hardly see anything with hinata in stores like fye and or hot topic

 

...The laws?

 

Anyways, after the ending they did try selling more Hinata products because she was the new Heroine and they thought she was popular. Then the backlash. By the time Boruto had started they had pretty much given up on her and just focused on keeping the franchise going.

Hinata is not a heroine no matter how much they try to convince you she is 

[Moon_Girl]

I think they mean how a lot of Hinata merch suddenly popped up after the ending. Not just in America. 
She got new figures, a nendoroid, ect ect. 

They probably think she sells when a lot of the current fans don't even give two craps about her. They're just here for the fights and cool ninja techniques and couldn't care less about pairings. Even though they tend to agree that the endgame pairings were absolute piles of dung along with Hinatatas.

The crazy Hinatards are apparently frowned upon in the Naruto/Burrito community. At least from what I last saw on the Naruto subreddit a couple of years ago.
They downvoted all the Hinatards and dissed her + them.

Edited by Moon_Girl, 07 May 2021 - 01:05 PM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

I think they mean how a lot of Hinata merch suddenly popped up after the ending. Not just in America. 
She got new figures, a nendoroid, ect ect. 

They probably think she sells when a lot of the current fans don't even give two craps about her. They're just here for the fights and cool ninja techniques and couldn't care less about pairings. Even though they tend to agree that the endgame pairings were absolute piles of dung along with Hinatatas.

The crazy Hinatards are apparently frowned upon in the Naruto/Burrito community. At least from what I last saw on the Naruto subreddit a couple of years ago.
They downvoted all the Hinatards and dissed her + them.

Hmm, I find this hard to believe when so many think that Hinata is the best female Naruto character of all time; I mean, if people do start calling out Hinata but mainly her fans, I think that would be great.

[DrK]

The crazy Hinatards are apparently frowned upon in the Naruto/Burrito community. At least from what I last saw on the Naruto subreddit a couple of years ago.
They downvoted all the Hinatards and dissed her + them.

I mean, a lot of people still don't like Sakura... And hell, a lot of people who DO like Sakura don't like NaruSaku (probably because they're self-inserters, but this is beside the point)

 

... But at the end of the day Hinata is just useless. She's useless in-universe because she's weak, and she's useless out of universe because she doesn't sell. And fans who don't GAF about pairings DO NOT respect characters like that and will never support her as a result.

 

Like Dragon Ball, Chi Chi is hated because of kittening with Gohan getting to be a fighter. While Bulma is liked because of her useful inventions. Stuff like that.

 

So Hinata has no pull to do anything, she never did and never will.

[Bail o' Lies]

Hmm, I find this hard to believe when so many think that Hinata is the best female Naruto character of all time; I mean, if people do start calling out Hinata but mainly her fans, I think that would be great.

People online vocally think that Hinata was the best. Silent Majority. Won't say anything till something happens.

 

I think they mean how a lot of Hinata merch suddenly popped up after the ending. Not just in America. 
She got new figures, a nendoroid, ect ect. 

They probably think she sells when a lot of the current fans don't even give two craps about her. They're just here for the fights and cool ninja techniques and couldn't care less about pairings. Even though they tend to agree that the endgame pairings were absolute piles of dung along with Hinatatas.

The crazy Hinatards are apparently frowned upon in the Naruto/Burrito community. At least from what I last saw on the Naruto subreddit a couple of years ago.
They downvoted all the Hinatards and dissed her + them.

Didn't Ladygt do a figurine of her for her job?

 

That's because even if you're fine with the ending. Hinata fans are annoying. They have two modes. 

Hinata worship where they talk non-stop about how perfect Hinata is and all Naruto is about her. 

Victimized where if you criticize or don't completely agree with them. They go off about how Hinata is the most suffered being in all existence and you're awful for not loving her utterly and completely due to how much she has suffered.

 

That was a large part of the pairings war in Naruto being so large and well known. It helped drive off people before the ending, and it helped drive off even more after because they got their beliefs confirmed.

 

I've seen people get sick of them after about three months on average. So, of course they would annoying people who are even fine with the ending.

 

I mean, a lot of people still don't like Sakura... And hell, a lot of people who DO like Sakura don't like NaruSaku (probably because they're self-inserters, but this is beside the point)

 

... But at the end of the day Hinata is just useless. She's useless in-universe because she's weak, and she's useless out of universe because she doesn't sell. And fans who don't GAF about pairings DO NOT respect characters like that and will never support her as a result.

 

Like Dragon Ball, Chi Chi is hated because of kittening with Gohan getting to be a fighter. While Bulma is liked because of her useful inventions. Stuff like that.

 

So Hinata has no pull to do anything, she never did and never will.

In her fans minds, all she had to do was get with Naruto and become the heroine. Then Kishimoto would have to do stuff with her because she just so incredible or she will be once she was fleshed out. Of course those fans forgetting two things. One, Kishimoto already had problems with keeping his original heroine involved and they want him to put more effort to make some other random girl even more important to the plot? Two, since kishi didn't know why her fans liked her he thought honestly, She was popular without her having to do anything or him write anything for her; why fix what isn't broken?

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 May 2021 - 11:46 AM.

[Phantom_999]

And unfortunately that was the big mistake that Shueisha AND SP believed in. I don't really think Kishi really cared. But anyway both companies thought just because Hinata SEEMED popular and they associated that with her selling well over seas. They either underestimated how many of of Hinata's so called adoring "international  fans" were pirating their content while not actually paying a cent to the franchise or they didn't bother to do the research. Either way what's done is done. bottom line is, Both the editors at Shueisha for Naruto and the SP team members for the Naruto anime that had "boners"  exclusively for Hinata had too much faith in her popularity and let said "boners" decide that she and her happiness was what is best for the franchise and wore Kishi down until he said yes and now they are all reaping the consequences. I hope they all feel it was worth driving off their native fan base and actual international consumers because I sure don't see it. If Boruto somehow manages to do well enough for a movie, good for the franchise. It doesn't however, change the fact that I now think that this franchise is a piece of garbage that I regret ever having wasted my time with and will never support it again, nor will I ever trust any manga with Kishi's brand on it anymore because he is either a crowd pleasing yes man that does not use his own head or is probably the most incompetent writer I have ever seen in my life so far.

Edited by Phantom_999, 08 May 2021 - 11:51 PM.

[Namaenash]

And unfortunately that was the big mistake that Shueisha AND SP believed. I don't really think Kishi really cared. But anyway both companies thought just because Hinata SEEMED popular and they associated that with her selling well over seas. They either underestimated how many of of Hinata's so called adoring "international  fans" were pirating their content while not actually paying a cent to the franchise or they didn't bother to do the research. Either way what's done is done. bottom line is, Both the editors at Shueisha for Naruto and the team members for the Naruto anime that had "boners"  exclusively for Hinata had too much faith in her popularity and let said "boners" decide that she and her happiness was what is best for the franchise and wore Kishi down until he said yes and now they are all reaping the consequences. I hope they all feel it was worth driving off their native fan base and actual international consumers because I sure don't see it. If Boruto somehow manages todo well enough for a movie, good for the franchise. It doesn't however, change the fact that I now think that this franchise is a piece of garbage that I regret ever having wasted my time with, and will never support it again, nor will I ever trust any manga with Kishi's brand on it anymore because he is either a crowd pleasing yes man that does not use his own head or is probably the most incompetent writer I have ever seen in my life so far.

Yeah, you're not alone in terms of no longer supporting manga with Kishi's brand on it.

The recent testament was his new series Samurai 8, that got axed within 5 volumes. I'd argue that it would survive longer if Kishimoto's name is not on it.

Despite heavy marketing, first two volumes barely sold 10k in its debut. WSJ is known to be operating with parsimony thought in mind. They keep mediocre manga that doesn't incur loss. The fact that Samurai 8 got axed within 5 volumes is a good enough proxy to indicate they incurred loss (production cost outweigh its revenue). Wise decision to cut it off.

Also, I need to call out that manga industry is on the rise since 2018. https://www.animenew...in-2020/.169987

I'm not sure what's the trend in 2021 is going to be. Regardless of this, Naruto franchise doesn't seem to be enjoying the overall manga market rise (someone did a quick analysis on it: https://erzat.blog/j...2021-may-2-2021), saying that "...Boruto: Naruto Next Generations which debut sales have been on a decline since Volume 11. Still, the peak that Volume 11 hit only lasted for a week, while Volume 12 lasted two weeks on Oricons sales chart."

Now, with the new volume 14 of Boruto released on April 30th, as we all know, Kishimoto came back to take over the previous writer/storyboarder who got fired. Guess what? Its debut sales wasn't great either.

https://www.oricon.c...c/w/2021-05-10/

It's debuted at 45k copies (3 days).

This shows that whether Kishimoto is involved or not with Boruto, it won't tilt the needle. In fact, the debut sales seems to be trending down. As a comparison, volume 11 debuted at 87k (5 days), while volume 12 debuted at 57k (3 days).

As I mentioned before, anything involving Kishimoto is as good as a fresh start.

Edited by Namaenash, 08 May 2021 - 02:55 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

really they can do that funny cause naughty dog did that with the last of us 2 refusing to give refunds

....Given the hype they had for it and how it actually was. That's low of Naughty Dog but I can believe it.

Yeah, you're not alone in terms of no longer supporting manga with Kishi's brand on it.

The recent testament was his new series Samurai 8, that got axed within 5 volumes. I'd argue that it would survive longer if Kishimoto's name is not on it.

Despite heavy marketing, first two volumes barely sold 10k in its debut. WSJ is known to be operating with parsimony thought in mind. They keep mediocre manga that doesn't incur loss. The fact that Samurai 8 got axed within 5 volumes is a good enough proxy to indicate they incurred loss (production cost outweigh its revenue). Wise decision to cut it off.

Also, I need to call out that manga industry is on the rise since 2018. https://www.animenew...in-2020/.169987

I'm not sure what's the trend in 2021 is going to be. Regardless of this, Naruto franchise doesn't seem to be enjoying the overall manga market rise (someone did a quick analysis on it: https://erzat.blog/j...2021-may-2-2021), saying that "...Boruto: Naruto Next Generations which debut sales have been on a decline since Volume 11. Still, the peak that Volume 11 hit only lasted for a week, while Volume 12 lasted two weeks on Oricons sales chart."
Now, with the new volume 14 of Boruto released on April 30th, as we all know, Kishimoto came back to take over the previous writer/storyboarder who got fired. Guess what? Its debut sales wasn't great either. https://www.oricon.c...c/w/2021-05-10/
It's debuted at 45k copies (3 days).

This shows that whether Kishimoto is involved or not with Boruto, it won't tilt the needle. In fact, the debut sales seems to be trending down. As a comparison, volume 11 debuted at 87k (5 days), while volume 12 debuted at 57k (3 days).
As I mentioned before, anything involving Kishimoto is as good as a fresh start.

Chalk it up to how he has to take the brunt of the BS for the way Naruto ended and how he spat in the faces of his longtime fans just to appeal to some over the top zealots even among his editors and over at Studio Pierrot.

Basically what we're seeing from all this is a butterfly effect. It's the kind that can hurt someone big time as a creator in an industry like comic books or manga or video games. The problem too is that Kishimoto still hasn't necessarily apologized and I doubt his editors and such will allow him to. So there's no way in Hell he can salvage anything of his reputation now. Like the song goes, it's too late to apologize.

[Bail o' Lies]

And unfortunately that was the big mistake that Shueisha AND SP believed. I don't really think Kishi really cared. But anyway both companies thought just because Hinata SEEMED popular and they associated that with her selling well over seas. They either underestimated how many of of Hinata's so called adoring "international  fans" were pirating their content while not actually paying a cent to the franchise or they didn't bother to do the research. Either way what's done is done.

 

Bottom line is, Both the editors at Shueisha for Naruto and the team members for the Naruto anime that had "boners"  exclusively for Hinata had too much faith in her popularity and let said "boners" decide that she and her happiness was what is best for the franchise and wore Kishi down until he said yes and now they are all reaping the consequences.

 

I hope they all feel it was worth driving off their native fan base and actual international consumers because I sure don't see it. If Boruto somehow manages to do well enough for a movie, good for the franchise. It doesn't however, change the fact that I now think that this franchise is a piece of garbage that I regret ever having wasted my time with, and will never support it again, nor will I ever trust any manga with Kishi's brand on it anymore because he is either a crowd pleasing yes man that does not use his own head or is probably the most incompetent writer I have ever seen in my life so far.

I've seen worst writers sadly.

 

I recall someone believed that marketing and the people whose job was to know the figures of what sells thought this was a bad idea. Which is why the Last ads hinted a NS ending at least until pre-sale tickets were sold and the manga ended. If that was the case it more the editor and Naruto's anime convincing the executives at the various companies that had a stake in Naruto to go along with their promised dreamed successful sequel instead of just going with Kishimoto's ending the series.

 

Yeah, you're not alone in terms of no longer supporting manga with Kishi's brand on it.

The recent testament was his new series Samurai 8, that got axed within 5 volumes. I'd argue that it would survive longer if Kishimoto's name is not on it.

Despite heavy marketing, first two volumes barely sold 10k in its debut. WSJ is known to be operating with parsimony thought in mind. They keep mediocre manga that doesn't incur loss. The fact that Samurai 8 got axed within 5 volumes is a good enough proxy to indicate they incurred loss (production cost outweigh its revenue). Wise decision to cut it off.

Also, I need to call out that manga industry is on the rise since 2018. https://www.animenew...in-2020/.169987

I'm not sure what's the trend in 2021 is going to be. Regardless of this, Naruto franchise doesn't seem to be enjoying the overall manga market rise (someone did a quick analysis on it: https://erzat.blog/j...2021-may-2-2021), saying that "...Boruto: Naruto Next Generations which debut sales have been on a decline since Volume 11. Still, the peak that Volume 11 hit only lasted for a week, while Volume 12 lasted two weeks on Oricons sales chart."

Now, with the new volume 14 of Boruto released on April 30th, as we all know, Kishimoto came back to take over the previous writer/storyboarder who got fired. Guess what? Its debut sales wasn't great either.

https://www.oricon.c...c/w/2021-05-10/

It's debuted at 45k copies (3 days).

This shows that whether Kishimoto is involved or not with Boruto, it won't tilt the needle. In fact, the debut sales seems to be trending down. As a comparison, volume 11 debuted at 87k (5 days), while volume 12 debuted at 57k (3 days).

As I mentioned before, anything involving Kishimoto is as good as a fresh start.

Ah so the bump the manga got for Kishimoto returning died quickly then.

 

According to your links Boruto peaked at volume 11 which was before kishimoto came back. It think 13 was it.

 

Vol.11 87/5=17.4... Overall 83,613

Vol. 12 57/3=19.3... 57,164

 

Ah good the they had their overall sales. I looked at how much they sold per-day just to be fair but there is clearly a big drop afterwards. Wait no that was their first week thing not overall. And again Naruto used to at least sell 1 million on its first week.

 

Did this chart have a typo and Vol. 14 is actually Vol. 13 with 45,599 total sales? 

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 May 2021 - 12:10 AM.

[Namaenash]

I've seen worst writers sadly.
 
I recall someone believed that marketing and the people whose job was to know the figures of what sells thought this was a bad idea. Which is why the Last ads hinted a NS ending at least until pre-sale tickets were sold and the manga ended. If that was the case it more the editor and Naruto's anime convincing the executives at the various companies that had a stake in Naruto to go along with their promised dreamed successful sequel instead of just going with Kishimoto's ending the series.
 
Ah so the bump the manga got for Kishimoto returning died quickly then.
 
According to your links Boruto peaked at volume 11 which was before kishimoto came back. It think 13 was it.
 
Vol.11 87/5=17.4... Overall 83,613
Vol. 12 57/3=19.3... 57,164
 
Ah good the they had their overall sales. I looked at how much they sold per-day just to be fair but there is clearly a big drop afterwards. And again Naruto used to at least sell 1 million on its first week.
 
Did this chart have a typo and Vol. 14 is actually Vol. 13 with 45,599 total sales? 

No typo. Per oricon chart, volume 14 debuted at 45k (3 days). Link below (it's in Japanese, but you can scroll down a bit and see Boruto at rank 9, with 45,599 copies over 3 days).

https://www.oricon.c...c/w/2021-05-10/

As for volume 13, It was debuted at 90k (7 days)

Someone posted in Reddit and mentioned it was the lowest debut ranking, although having a full 7 days in the period.

https://www.reddit.c...utm_name=iossmf

As a comparison, Naruto debut sales during its heyday was peaked above one million copies in some of its volumes.

Although LTD (lifetime to date) sales is more important, such information is not available publicly.

Debut sales / first week sales is important since it's a proxy indicator of readers stickiness. These are mostly the loyal folks who wait for new volumes to come out and immediately get it from retail or subscription.

Imagine you had a manga that sold more than a million copies in its debut sales, you change the direction and now with your name embedded into it, its debut sales is merely 45k.

That's not even 5 percent of what you used to have.

I can imagine the staff at Naruto franchise is in turmoil, fingers pinpointing each others and they're trying to find someone to blame (which, turns out that someone to blame was Kodachi, the previous writer of Boruto. He got fired).

I mean, who wouldn't flip?

You were running a profitable manga series. It's always in the top 3 or top 5 for the past 15 years. Someone told you going a certain way will improve your profit. You took that advice. All of sudden you no longer enjoyed the same profit, and even struggling to be in the top 50 thanks to the new direction.

Kishimoto's return won't magically improve the sales significantly. That's a fact and it's proven with Boruto volume 14 sales.

Any ups and downs of the manga is driven by forecast and actual sales of the recent volumes. Therefore you didn't see immediate drop to 45k when the 1st volume of Boruto came out. It's a slow and painful decline for the producers.

Edited by Namaenash, 08 May 2021 - 11:04 PM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

I would laugh if Boruto got cancelled next because it was not selling all that well, no only problem is SP they will try to keep it going because they cant admit that maybe NH wasnt a good idea.

[Moon_Girl]

I recall someone believed that marketing and the people whose job was to know the figures of what sells thought this was a bad idea. Which is why the Last ads hinted a NS ending at least until pre-sale tickets were sold and the manga ended. 

Oh gosh, that whole debacle. That was a horrible thing they did. Purposely teased Team 7 AND NaruSaku, zero Hinata to be seen, to get the pre-sale tickets and then go 'sike!" and refuse refunds. Aside from getting their reputation dragged through the mud, they really should have gotten some sort of punishment for that. I really wish they did. That was seriously awful. 
I still remember the teasing line: "Sakura has really become more beautiful. Surely Naruto..."
I'd love to give whoever thought of deceiving everyone a taste of my fist. And if there was more than one, they can line up for it.
   

[Phantom_999]

I would laugh if Boruto got cancelled next because it was not selling all that well, no only problem is SP they will try to keep it going because they cant admit that maybe NH wasnt a good idea.

 

That IS the issue. SP is still keeping it afloat and so is Shueisha. Is it any wonder that Boruto never got the axe despite its abysmal sales for being the sequel to one of the world's most popular manga? Besides, being cancelled or being ongoing doesn't matter to me. They're not getting MY money anymore that's for sure. I'm just just waiting for any news and just taking it for what it is, and if it so happens that they are being dragged through the mud even more, then I have the satisfaction of saying "well I saw that coming" lmao

 

 

Oh gosh, that whole debacle. That was a horrible thing they did. Purposely teased Team 7 AND NaruSaku, zero Hinata to be seen, to get the pre-sale tickets and then go 'sike!" and refuse refunds. Aside from getting their reputation dragged through the mud, they really should have gotten some sort of punishment for that. I really wish they did. That was seriously awful. 
I still remember the teasing line: "Sakura has really become more beautiful. Surely Naruto..."
I'd love to give whoever thought of deceiving everyone a taste of my fist. And if there was more than one, they can line up for it.
   

 

What's funny is that we got the forewarning already with the release of the last Naruto chapters. I knew that any hope of NaruSaku was busted the moment that those daggers to my heart called chapters 699-700 came out, so I didn't even bother with the movie. I even contemplated on how to get rid of all the Naruto stuff I bought for three years after the manga ended until I just threw it all in the recycling bin in 2017 in favor of collecting Black Clover volumes. And BOY did I feel better afterwards I only regret I didn't toss them in the garbage where they belong. But hey, I'm trying to reduce garbage throwing "in my household" 

Edited by Phantom_999, 22 May 2021 - 09:26 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

....Given the hype they had for it and how it actually was. That's low of Naughty Dog but I can believe it.


Chalk it up to how he has to take the brunt of the BS for the way Naruto ended and how he spat in the faces of his longtime fans just to appeal to some over the top zealots even among his editors and over at Studio Pierrot.

Basically what we're seeing from all this is a butterfly effect. It's the kind that can hurt someone big time as a creator in an industry like comic books or manga or video games. The problem too is that Kishimoto still hasn't necessarily apologized and I doubt his editors and such will allow him to. So there's no way in Hell he can salvage anything of his reputation now. Like the song goes, it's too late to apologize.

plus naughty dog flase flagging channels talking about the leaks that happened