54175 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

Question... if you rewrote Naruto, where would you rewrite it and how would you tie NS into it?

 

Personal points of contention I would personally change include Naruto's one sided obsession with Sasuke, STILL Making Sakura a love struck puppy for Sasuke after all he's done and give her a more diverse power set other than just punching things very hard, Naruto and Sasuke being the reincarnations of Asura and Indra respectively and actually make them individuals that earn their greatness rather than be destined for it are the main things off the top of my head. There are others of course. Too many to list and I can't care enough to list them all.

 

 

From what I looked at apparently it's because they were saying or at least people who are anti SS were saying that Sai would be a better match for Sakura Than Sasuke

 

It's not hard to find some that IS actually better for Sakura than Sasuke, even crack pairings. The story has shown Sasuke is verbally abusive, dismissive, violent, and neglectful towards Sakura, and at the end of the day is a whiny self-entitled brat that thinks no-one understands him and WANTS NO-ONE to understand him. Any guy that shows basic decency to Sakura is a huge step up from the thrice damned kitten relationship she has with Sasuke. They basically took the Shojo cliche of the "cool bad boy" and cranked it up to beyond psychotic and sensible levels which is why the entire relationship doesn't even work, as anyone whom is actually willing to look past their fetishized fantasies of what an actual relationship should be can attest to.

Edited by Phantom_999, 20 March 2021 - 10:06 PM.

[Chatte]

The pet peeve some people have with Sai is that apparently he "guilt-tripped" Sakura into confessing, because otherwise Sakura wouldn't have done it, and thus he is not good for her.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The pet peeve some people have with Sai is that apparently he "guilt-tripped" Sakura into confessing, because otherwise Sakura wouldn't have done it, and thus he is not good for her.

That's not the case to me, and it is so disappointing people could think that! Sai did what he did by talking to Sakura because he was worried about Naruto because he's their friend. And after what he saw done by Naruto to protect Sasuke, even if he wasn't worth it, who could blame Sai for standing up and doing what he felt was right?

[Chatte]

That's not the case to me, and it is so disappointing people could think that! Sai did what he did by talking to Sakura because he was worried about Naruto because he's their friend. And after what he saw done by Naruto to protect Sasuke, even if he wasn't worth it, who could blame Sai for standing up and doing what he felt was right?

Welp, some people do... and using his own emotion problems to drag him down.

[DrK]

I didn't like how Sai told Naruto that Sakura was going to try to kill Sasuke because she loves Sasuke... And not even because he's saying she loves Sasuke. Just because how could Sai know this? Kishimoto dedicated so much time to show how socially stunted and emotionally almost retarded Sai was, then he's suddenly capable of reading that much into Sakura's actions?

 

He went from "smiling around someone means they are your friends" to that. Ham fisted.

[ThroughWithLove]

I didn't like how Sai told Naruto that Sakura was going to try to kill Sasuke because she loves Sasuke... And not even because he's saying she loves Sasuke. Just because how could Sai know this? Kishimoto dedicated so much time to show how socially stunted and emotionally almost retarded Sai was, then he's suddenly capable of reading that much into Sakura's actions?

 

He went from "smiling around someone means they are your friends" to that. Ham fisted.

 

I made a thread here about this very subject a while back and even analyzed things panel by panel, but when you examine Sai's actions throughout this arc, it's as if he's three different people. His personality and justifications for talking to Sakura and Naruto contradict each other multiple times. It's as if someone decided to completely rewrite his characteristics at the last minute after seeing a bunch of fanboy/fangirl backlash towards his initial comments/observations about Naruto loving Sakura and her causing Naruto pain. Immediately in the chapter after he says this, he makes a dumb@ss non-sequitur comment about how everybody relies too much on Naruto as opposed to just Sakura and Shizune joins him by making a moronic unnecessary remark about how Naruto isn't just saving Sasuke because of his promise to Sakura. If memory serves me, I wanna say this took place in chapter 458 or 459. Either way, things go downhill from there.

 

To be fair, Sai was shown to slowly become more competent at reading people's actions even after his debut (based on a book he was reading). He made some surprisingly accurate observations with respect to how Sakura's fierce behavior towards Naruto was in actuality a testament to how much she cared about him. In a flashback in chapter 457, he's also shown rightfully coming to the conclusion that Naruto loves Sakura in light of how much he smiles towards her all the time. He didn't become a complete retard until the NH/SS got butthurt over his initial comments towards Sakura about Naruto's POAL. Then that entire arc went funhouse mirror all of the sudden.

 

EDIT: Here's the thread I'm talking about: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=16279

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 13 March 2021 - 05:40 PM.

[DrK]

 

I made a thread here about this very subject a while back and even analyzed things panel by panel, but when you examine Sai's actions throughout this arc, it's as if he's three different people. His personality and justifications for talking to Sakura and Naruto contradict each other multiple times. It's as if someone decided to completely rewrite his characteristics at the last minute after seeing a bunch of fanboy/fangirl backlash towards his initial comments/observations about Naruto loving Sakura and her causing Naruto pain. Immediately in the chapter after he says this, he makes a dumb@ss non-sequitur comment about how everybody relies too much on Naruto as opposed to just Sakura and Shizune joins him by making a moronic unnecessary remark about how Naruto isn't just saving Sasuke because of his promise to Sakura. If memory serves me, I wanna say this took place in chapter 458 or 459. Either way, things go downhill from there.

 

To be fair, Sai was shown to slowly become more competent at reading people's actions even after his debut (based on a book he was reading). He made some surprisingly accurate observations with respect to how Sakura's fierce behavior towards Naruto was in actuality a testament to how much she cared about him. In a flashback in chapter 457, he's also shown rightfully coming to the conclusion that Naruto loves Sakura in light of how much he smiles towards her all the time. He didn't become a complete retard until the NH/SS got butthurt over his initial comments towards Sakura about Naruto's POAL. Then that entire arc went funhouse mirror all of the sudden.

 

EDIT: Here's the thread I'm talking about: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=16279

Sakura just had to be caltropped by herself or others every time she was starting to move away from the Sasuke thing. Because Kishi just didn't care for some reason.

 

Like, it's one thing if Sakura is not worth the effort. Maybe she wasn't. But you already gave the effort! You did the hard part. The rest would have been easy. And you just wasted it.

[ThroughWithLove]

Another thing I'll point out is that NS had such wasted romantic potential. Think about it. Throughout the entire manga, we're never given any reason as to why Sakura continues to be so hopelessly in love with Sasuke. What if the reason the whole time is because of Naruto's boneheaded decision to pretend to be Sasuke at the bench scene? What if Sakura didn't truly fall in love with Sasuke until that very moment Naruto (disguised as Sasuke) tried to kiss her? That would explain EVERYTHING and would make Kishi look like a 4D chess genius for the almost obtuse obsessive way he has displayed Sakura since then. Then, during the finale, we get a nice callback to the bench scene. Maybe right before Naruto goes after to fight Sasuke one final time or maybe he's returning from the battle bruised/battered, he walks up to her and recites the very words he did so long ago: "Your forehead is so wide and charming. Makes me want to kiss it." Then with a quick and affection peck on the cherry blossom girl's head, her eyes widen inexplicably and she has a grand multi-panel catharsis very similar to the scene in HxH where Meruem finally remembers Komugi.

 

It's right then that she finally realizes she's been madly in love with Naruto the whole time!

 

The sad part is that Kishi, despite being an incompetent numbskull of a writer, already had everything setup to pull this off. It would have required ZERO effort on his part. But no. Instead, what we get is love doesn't need a reason, byakkugan princesses, nonsensical red herring explanations and silly forehead poke comparisons.To top it off, we get a sequel series in which Naruto and Sakura are not even allowed to be themselves around each other. A series where Hinata is such a perfect companion for the seventh hokage that she's never even around! I truly do hate what this man did to his own manga. So much potential. So much promise. I truly do believe this series had the capacity to be the greatest manga of all time. But alas, all ruined. The Naruto manga is basically Anakin Skywalker, the toxic part of the fandom is basically Palpatine/DarthSidious, the good part of the fandom is Obiwan Kenobi, NS is basically Padme and the Boruto series is Darth Vader.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 13 March 2021 - 06:22 PM.

[Luna]

That's not the case to me, and it is so disappointing people could think that! Sai did what he did by talking to Sakura because he was worried about Naruto because he's their friend. And after what he saw done by Naruto to protect Sasuke, even if he wasn't worth it, who could blame Sai for standing up and doing what he felt was right?

 

The reason is that when he told Sakura those things she was also grieving over Tsunade being in a coma yet what he told her still added more onto her which caused her to make that decision. You can see the other Konoha nine comforting Ino but Sakura wasn't offered the same amount of comfort. 

 

This goes for both Shikamaru and Sai who guilt-tripped her while she was under duress. 

[Phantom_999]

The pet peeve some people have with Sai is that apparently he "guilt-tripped" Sakura into confessing, because otherwise Sakura wouldn't have done it, and thus he is not good for her.

I made a thread here about this very subject a while back and even analyzed things panel by panel, but when you examine Sai's actions throughout this arc, it's as if he's three different people. His personality and justifications for talking to Sakura and Naruto contradict each other multiple times. It's as if someone decided to completely rewrite his characteristics at the last minute after seeing a bunch of fanboy/fangirl backlash towards his initial comments/observations about Naruto loving Sakura and her causing Naruto pain. Immediately in the chapter after he says this, he makes a dumb@ss non-sequitur comment about how everybody relies too much on Naruto as opposed to just Sakura and Shizune joins him by making a moronic unnecessary remark about how Naruto isn't just saving Sasuke because of his promise to Sakura. If memory serves me, I wanna say this took place in chapter 458 or 459. Either way, things go downhill from there.
 
To be fair, Sai was shown to slowly become more competent at reading people's actions even after his debut (based on a book he was reading). He made some surprisingly accurate observations with respect to how Sakura's fierce behavior towards Naruto was in actuality a testament to how much she cared about him. In a flashback in chapter 457, he's also shown rightfully coming to the conclusion that Naruto loves Sakura in light of how much he smiles towards her all the time. He didn't become a complete retard until the NH/SS got butthurt over his initial comments towards Sakura about Naruto's POAL. Then that entire arc went funhouse mirror all of the sudden.
 
EDIT: Here's the thread I'm talking about: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=16279

 
The simplest explanation is "Dramatic tension",  a character has to trigger an event even if it means contradicting what they actually know or is out of character for them. Same reason Sasuke went from adamantly defending Naruto from Sakura's insensitive comments about Naruto having no family to hypocritical douchebag shouting at Naruto that he doesn't know what it's like to lose family because he never had one. Or how Kakashi went from calling out Sasuke for obsessing with Revenge to helping Shikamaru out with his because it's apparently it's okay with Shikamaru. Or scenario 2, how knowledge is passed on off screen with no explanation on how it came to specific ears like all supposed classified secrets within Konoha spread like wild fire to all unnamed soldiers within the alliance, I forgot where it was or when it happened, but it did happened apparently.
 
Point being, I don't care about the reasons they want to point fingers at Sai at all, These yahoos seem to not realize Sakura was under NO OBLIGATION to confess to Naruto in the first place. SHE went with Sai Shikamaru and Kiba to inform Naruto that they are finally going to hunt Sasuke down as a run away ninja as was meant to be. How that scene was SUPPOSED to play out or the reason for it, I don't care anymore, but is its beyond ludicrous that they even think that, not realizing Sakura decided that on her own.

 

As for how Sai knows Sakura loves Sasuke, actually I think Naruto said right before that Sakura loves Sasuke I believe, and Sai is merely playing off that thinking that it may justify why Sakura was going after Sasuke herself. I don't really feel like wrapping my brain around this drama because it was ill thought out at best with entire mess it became. EVERYONE involved flip flopped on their own damn priorities here and it was basically all because Sasuke is descending into villain status here but his former friends and teacher need to "kiss his behind", make excuses for him and defend him. I said this before, Kishi never got his own priorities straight on whether Sasuke was the typical rival/love-hate bff to Naruto or a villain deuteragonist that is meant to clash with Naruto, and trying to achieve both is where the story fails. 
 

Edited by Phantom_999, 17 July 2021 - 03:41 PM.

[Moon_Girl]

The pet peeve some people have with Sai is that apparently he "guilt-tripped" Sakura into confessing, because otherwise Sakura wouldn't have done it, and thus he is not good for her.

As if any NH fans or SS fans can say anything. Pot, meet kettle. 
The infamous 'Guilt Trip no jutsu'/'look at how much Hinatatas wubs u ever since she was a sparkle in her mommy's womb and u've ignored it this whole time ur the worst the only way you can ever be forgiven is to marry her' on Naruto in 'The Last'.

And Sakura when Kishimoto decides to murder everything good about her and have her beg and whine and chase after Sasuke "You're annoying, I don't love you" Uchiha. Her post-ending novel said that she would keep bothering him until he said yes.
And then presumably pity ****'d her, knocked her up and then felt obligated to marry her because now a kid was involved. Sasuke cares more about Salad than Sakura since he's already said that's the only reason he's still with her. 

Considering Sakura made the choice to confess to Naruto herself, and Sai didn't actually pressure her to do so...
Which is worse of the three? Hmmm...if you have more than two brain cells, then the answer is pretty obvious. If you don't, then knock those two brain cells to make a spark and figure it out. 
Hint: It's not Sakura's confession to Naruto.
Hint #2: There's more than one answer.

If you still can't accept or figure out the answer, then I'm sorry. Your head is empty. Terminally so. Please log off the internet forever and have a nice day.

[Namaenash]

In hindsight, it only further proof few things:

- Naruto is never around, he chose to do so albeit he has the option not to. We get this from 3rd party view (his children's hateful opinion on him).

- Likewise with Sasuke, he is never home, still doesn't care about Sakura, nor making the effort to do so. What kind of husband choose not to visit her wife to the point that Sakura pasted her picture on top of Karin.

- Hinata never come across Naruto's mind, from the simplest moment of forgetting her bento (he thought of Sasuke and Sakura in Gaiden), to the part where he almost die recently. She's as irrelevant as she's ever been.

- Sakura never come across Sasuke's mind, at all. No need to explain on this front.

Exactly what you would expect when two people who don't care enough and who don't love each other being forced to be together.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

In hindsight, it only further proof few things:

- Naruto is never around, he chose to do so albeit he has the option not to. We get this from 3rd party view (his children's hateful opinion on him).

- Likewise with Sasuke, he is never home, still doesn't care about Sakura, nor making the effort to do so. What kind of husband choose not to visit her wife to the point that Sakura pasted her picture on top of Karin.

- Hinata never come across Naruto's mind, from the simplest moment of forgetting her bento (he thought of Sasuke and Sakura in Gaiden), to the part where he almost die recently. She's as irrelevant as she's ever been.

- Sakura never come across Sasuke's mind, at all. No need to explain on this front.

Exactly what you would expect when two people who don't care enough and who don't love each other being forced to be together.

Amen to that. And yet the head canon of the fanatics makes them tell us and themselves that this is seen as romantic. Anyone elses BS detector go off?

Just shows how they know this whole thing is a mess but they just dont really give a crap at all as long as they can fool themselves and try to force us to kneel to them with their Pyrrhic victory here.

[Phantom_999]

As if any NH fans or SS fans can say anything. Pot, meet kettle. 
The infamous 'Guilt Trip no jutsu'/'look at how much Hinatatas wubs u ever since she was a sparkle in her mommy's womb and u've ignored it this whole time ur the worst the only way you can ever be forgiven is to marry her' on Naruto in 'The Last'.

And Sakura when Kishimoto decides to murder everything good about her and have her beg and whine and chase after Sasuke "You're annoying, I don't love you" Uchiha. Her post-ending novel said that she would keep bothering him until he said yes.
And then presumably pity ****'d her, knocked her up and then felt obligated to marry her because now a kid was involved. Sasuke cares more about Salad than Sakura since he's already said that's the only reason he's still with her. 

Considering Sakura made the choice to confess to Naruto herself, and Sai didn't actually pressure her to do so...
Which is worse of the three? Hmmm...if you have more than two brain cells, then the answer is pretty obvious. If you don't, then knock those two brain cells to make a spark and figure it out. 
Hint: It's not Sakura's confession to Naruto.
Hint #2: There's more than one answer.

If you still can't accept or figure out the answer, then I'm sorry. Your head is empty. Terminally so. Please log off the internet forever and have a nice day.

 

THE TRUTH!!!  Sai guilt-tripped Sakura? What are NH and SS' relationships then, hmm?

 

 

In hindsight, it only further proof few things:

- Naruto is never around, he chose to do so albeit he has the option not to. We get this from 3rd party view (his children's hateful opinion on him).

- Likewise with Sasuke, he is never home, still doesn't care about Sakura, nor making the effort to do so. What kind of husband choose not to visit her wife to the point that Sakura pasted her picture on top of Karin.

- Hinata never come across Naruto's mind, from the simplest moment of forgetting her bento (he thought of Sasuke and Sakura in Gaiden), to the part where he almost die recently. She's as irrelevant as she's ever been.

- Sakura never come across Sasuke's mind, at all. No need to explain on this front.

Exactly what you would expect when two people who don't care enough and who don't love each other being forced to be together.

 

A loveless arranged marriage.   Haven't I stated this before?

Edited by Phantom_999, 14 March 2021 - 11:31 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

A loveless arranged marriage.   Haven't I've stated this before?

 

Well, Phantom, if it wasn't you who said it, it's gotta be one of us here. Let's face it, that's the epitome of what NH and SS is essentially!

[BlueStarSaber]

A loveless marriage arranged by Studio Pierrot. 

[Bail o' Lies]

In hindsight, it only further proof few things:

- Naruto is never around, he chose to do so albeit he has the option not to. We get this from 3rd party view (his children's hateful opinion on him).

- Likewise with Sasuke, he is never home, still doesn't care about Sakura, nor making the effort to do so. What kind of husband choose not to visit her wife to the point that Sakura pasted her picture on top of Karin.

- Hinata never come across Naruto's mind, from the simplest moment of forgetting her bento (he thought of Sasuke and Sakura in Gaiden), to the part where he almost die recently. She's as irrelevant as she's ever been.

- Sakura never come across Sasuke's mind, at all. No need to explain on this front.

Exactly what you would expect when two people who don't care enough and who don't love each other being forced to be together.

Actually, from what I can gather was before he became hokage. He was actually around all the time...because no one gave him any responsibilities beyond being with Hinata and raising their kids. Then because he so unprepared for the job he worked towards for 10 year before marrying Hinata, then sat around waiting for it to be given to him for another ten years while married to Hinata...wait off track. Because he was so unprepared because he wasn't being trained for the job under Kakashi's reign. He was overwhelm and force to work overtime to try to manage the job. His kids are literally not used to him not being around at all times and are spoiled rotten they -especially Bolt- immediately act out.

 

*Just double checking to make sure.*  Yes, Naruto did think about his kids and the village while he was dying. He did not think about Hinata.

 

As for Sasuke. I'm not going to count whatever anime filler they make about him always spending time with them or always has them on his mind. So, he cares more about his student Boruto more than he does his wife or his only child.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 15 March 2021 - 08:22 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Even IF you were to take anime fillers of Boruto into account, There is barely anything supporting the TRUE LOVE NH and SS fans imagining themselves seeing. It doesn't change the fact that Sasuke left his family for 12 years of his own volition, comes back only once a blue moon and during those times is more interested in training Boruto than spending time with Sarada. It doesn't change the fact that Naruto ignored a home made lunch from Hinata and doesn't seem the slightest bit interested returning the affection she shows him during the very rare occasions he's home. Well what else is new? it was the exact same thing with Naruto's filler episodes where the so called moments between NH and SS added nothing but fuel to their one-track minded cultists' imaginations, as it didn't affect actual story events.

 

Even the filler arcs in Boruto are more interested in trying to make them seem like (slightly) better fathers than they are husbands to their wives. Sure, putting your kids before romance with your marriage partner IS true for many parents but I see manga/ anime married couples every now and then show SOME romantic aspects still, so I don't know what the excuse is here.  Same thing for when SS and NH ACTUALLY MARRIED. nothing was stopping them from having moments , but Kishi just straight up wasn't interested.

Edited by Phantom_999, 16 March 2021 - 12:22 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

In summary studio pierrot is a dog chasing cars and NaruHina is the car. They never had any idea what they would with it upon catching it. Which is why Boruto (nor even the original anime) spends ZERO time actually showcasing the dynamics of Naruto and Hinata's relationship. That's because there are NONE. It's so bad that they've had to outright STEAL personality quirks from Sakura (i.e. Hinata is a "scary" mom, LMAO!!!!).

Little wonder that a man who can literally be in one thousand places at once (as well as simaltaneously fight 1000 different highly complex ninja battles ) never seems to find the time to be home. There is quite literally NOTHING there for him. He'd rather drown himself in paper work than spend time with someone whose entire personality can be boiled down to "naruto-kun."

This also explains why he gets his @ss handed to him so much in Boruto. He no longer has any motivation to perform like he did in the original series. Sakura-chan is gone, so what's the point in putting up a fight against lame akatsuki ripoffs? Perhaps there's a part of him that actually WANTS to die, which is why we never see him showcase any of the busted abilities he gained during the war arc. He keeps hoping and praying that one of these lame villains will finally put him out of his misery, but they're just too lame to accomplish that.

[DrK]

In summary studio pierrot is a dog chasing cars and NaruHina is the car. They never had any idea what they would with it upon catching it. Which is why Boruto (nor even the original anime) spends ZERO time actually showcasing the dynamics of Naruto and Hinata's relationship. That's because there are NONE. It's so bad that they've had to outright STEAL personality quirks from Sakura (i.e. Hinata is a "scary" mom, LMAO!!!!).

Hinata can't be dynamic. She's the perfect background character. She shows up, does something typical, you react to it (usually by laughing, let's be honest here), then leaves. She doesn't have depth and can't survive being the focus for long. Just brief periods and it is easy to appreciate her in that context because again she's narrow, you know what to expect from her, and it's like "lol, of course".

 

Trying to take her very seriously or make her a protagonist doesn't work because no part of her is like that. She was usually played as a joke. Are there little girls who admire Hinata and want to be like her?

 

From a neutral fan perspective, making Sakura look like s** doesn't help with this because Sakura already looked like s***. But Sakura was never played as a JOKE.

 

I don't think it works well to pair the hero with a joke character. They've stopped playing Hinata as the joke but it doesn't help because she had very little to offer beyond this.