55 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

You are directly disrespecting Kishimoto's wishes for how he wants Sakura to be seen by fans when you write fanfic with her where you depict her more negatively than in canon.

This is arrogance itself. You have no right to speak for the author, pull statistics from the air or to lambast anyone else's fanfic because it doesn't meet up with your opinion.

You have hijacked a review thread to get on a soapbox about your beliefs, AND you have used one author and one story as your whipping post. An author who has now opted out of H&E. Do not pat yourself on the back or try to justify this as educating about N/S.

If you want to continue in this vein, do us all a favor and open a separate topic about it. There we can have a discussion that does not ride on the back of a review about a specific story.

@ jenskott: The issue is not posting whether you dislike a story or not. People post their dissenting reviews all the time. Polite, constructive criticism was left behind long ago. It has now moved into loud, acidic opinions that encompass the whole scope of fanfic, including what the author believes. Time for a new thread.

Lastly, this is a haven for people who like NS. We are all on the same side. The story this issue is about is a naru/saku fic and author that are incredibly popular.

Stop beating up other people with opinions. If anyone feels like it's a topic worth discussing, in a mature way, be accountable and open another thread about fanfic issue.

That way the rest of us can get back to finding out about stories that might be of interest to us.

Personally, I would be horrified to my words wounded another person so deeply that they left H&E. Don't pat yourself on the back, or act like the author shouldn't take it personally. It's personal to her, as this has all been piggy-backed on her story review.

Edited by tricksie, 04 July 2011 - 08:20 PM.

[Greed-Sama]

Tricksie said it all and then some. Thank you.

@ciardha - that's what you don't understand. It is not wrong. Try and justify it all you want, it does not matter. If the authors have an issue with fanfic than they will make it clear, otherwise you have absolutely no right, and I mean no right to declare something wrong because you are not Kishimoto. So until that day happens keep your reviews constructive and not degrading like you have done; which incidentally caused a member of HxE to feel so bad that as tricksie said "opted out." This is a place for people to have fun and have a good time, not for them to feel like they haven't accomplished anything.

[Miss Soupy]

As I said earlier, Kishimoto has already made the point that fans characterizing Sakura more negatively than in the manga really upsets him. That should be a message loud and clear to any fanfic writers- but especially narusaku fanfic writers, distorting Sakura's character in a negative way is something that absolutely should not be done. You are not respecting the work or the writer when you write characters more negatively than in canon. Respecting would involve following the credo of my professional writer friend- writing the characters personalities and choices a bit better than in canon even if you don't like the character.

Likewise, not understanding the flaws in a character, namely Sakura, is also disrespectful to the author. You are simply the other side of the coin and it certainly doesn't make you more right about interpreting Sakura. If you can't take a moment to understand her flaws and instead always deny or put the blame on other characters or the fans themselves, how can you say you know what the author intends? You have, time and time again, said anyone who thinks negatively of Sakura is not a true fan. I wonder then, how does that make you any different than the uber-Hinata fans that see no wrong in her character?

And even more, if Kishimoto intended something different for Sakura, it was up to him to portray her in a way that would cause no doubt for the audience. That is his job as author. It is not the audiences fault if they do not see what he sees.

[catsi563]

Long story short:

I gave a slightly harsher then intended critique of a story. specifically the merits and flaws inehrent in what I viewed as an overused quite frankly hollywoodized plot device which tends to rub me the wrong way.

some people disagreed (which I have no issue with)

someone stepped in to agree with my point of view (which i appreciate)

a number of people felt the author was under attack (S/he wasnt) and responded with personal and quite frankly uncalled for criticism of myself, my friend and my own work. (not appreicated )

the author caught wind of the brewhaha and self exiled from the forums (not my intention in the slightest nor the intention of my friend)

This ended up with uncalled for accusations of arrogance flying around. given that certain memebers have decided that one persons interpretation must be wrong and since they are unwilling or unable to make no such interpretations they must therefore be right. Thus baseless and completely uncalled for ad hominen attacks have started being thrown about dismissing said members opinion and lambasting her for her opinion. (turning said prior discussion into a Your wrong; No your wrong so nyah!! =b argument)

thats pretty well a nutshell version of the whole thing Considering my friends interpretations and predictions have been pretty spot on and well in line with my own, Ill stand by her and hold to my own opinion till i have reason to change my mind.

As to the author since my own actions originated this debacle ((again not my intention)) I sent a PM to him/her and let them know everything was cool and offered encouragement. So everyone having a hissy fit over this can please kindly butt out and back off.

[Insurrection]

@catsi

Okay, I'm glad that you apologized...I think.

But from the way it seemed to me this arguement went beyond your original review. And I mean Fanfics come in all shapes and sizes and the characters bases are used. That's why there are Alternate universes and future fics.

But this arguement we're having is like arguing fiction with nonfiction. When ciardha accused NaruSaku fiction writers of distortion of character and saying those authors disrespecting Kishimoto's wishes that implies a form of arrogance in the fact someone believes they know what another person thinks more than another on presumptions or assumptions.

Anyone crosses a line when you act like you know better then another person.

Saying 90% of fics portray Sakura a certain way a person dislikes and then to say that the estimate is conservative is a sign of arrogance. I can say Hinata will be more powerful then Sakura 90% percent of the time in fanfiction, do I know that? No I do not, but I say that because its a belief of a point of view and opinion.

Here's my question, if you had know the author of the story was on here would you have posted your original thoughts. I don't have to say anything but it seems you didn't take into account that the author was here. And ciardha went out of her way to declare her disdain for narusaku fanfic

Really? Naruto, rescuing Sakura from Sasuke, Sakura looking at Naruto thankful and with love in her eyes, Naruto's lingering contact after he sets her down, etc.... Then the openness in their interactions on the return to Konoha, Sakura's defense of Naruto to their friends, and then the Ichiraku scene with yet more openness between them, Naruto's new mental image of Sakura in chapter 505....

This is the problem in a part of narusaku fandom. Instead of looking at what's happening in the manga, you know story canon, they decide some fanfic that writes Sakura in a more negative aspect of her part 1 self is accurate. Uh no.

Hey I don't like it either but most people tend to watch the anime more and Shippuden hasn't made its course. Also Kishi is at fault for Sakura's character in part 1, much better part 2.

Also iluvtoshi has Sasuke not only with a woman but with kids? Uh no. That's certainly waaaayyy off character. Sasuke has made it absolutely clear his idea of restoring his clan has absolutely nothing to do with getting together with anyone. Sasuke as he is right now, as you claim iluvtoshi is basing things off of, wants to kill everyone....

In conclusion- Nope, not in the slightest related to current canon.

It's fanfiction the author has the right to make a Future Fic the way they want.

Catsi when Madz feelings were hurt everyone began to encourage her not to stop, but ciardha didn't stop because tricksie was trying to defend Madz by saying.

And let me make this clear: PEOPLE READ FANFIC BECAUSE THEY WANT A VARIATION ON CANON!

I think people read fanfiction because they want more then just a variation on canon, some read them to find creativity.

Really? Then why do 90% of narusaku fanfic writers write Sakura in the same OOC for the manga characterization, the same few negative variants to the way she's been written since part 1? Doesn't sound like much variation to me. If you are writing a narusaku fanfic especially, you look like you haven't read the story if you write Sakura in the same narrow range of more negative than manga depiction.

If they want "variety" it sure is strange how so few narusaku fanfic writers actually do something "original" and write Sakura even the slightest bit more positive than Kishimoto does- instead they use the same old negative mischaracterizations everyone else does.

.....I blame fanfic, even fanfic that claims to be narusaku even more than the anime for the grossly negative image Western online Naruto fandom has of Sakura.

This isn't personally directed at madz, it's a criticism of narusaku fanfic in general.

Is it a criticism against us? Because it seems that Sakura's personality is the least distorted in NaruSaku fiction, Sakura in general fanfiction I could agree with, but this is why people get offended because it is percieved as an attack on all.

It's fan fiction, the fan has the freedom to write it the way they want if the others disagree or agree they review it, but to say the writer should go beyond and make the story intended to be like the writers what's the different between that and just writing filler?

Let's skip ahead to Jenskott

Thank you! I was thinking about making those points too, but wanted to talk about how the negative distortions of their characters in fanfic upsets the writers who create the charcaters and that's why so many dislike fanfic (including some manga writers)

But then that goes against the ideas of the individual has and their imagination. Fan fiction as a daydream on paper, people write it because they want to. Isn't fanfiction also a gateway to become a better writer as well? People use characters and characterization as tools. If people mischaracterize the specific character its probably that they have an already formed opinion by their own interpretation.

.... Jenskott's points are exactly why I read fanfic and why I get disgusted when I start to read a so called narusaku fanfic someone recommends just to find yet another that distorts Sakura's character in a negative way. And if anything, 90% is a conservative percentage. It's a very tiny minority of narusaku fanfic that even comes close to canon characterization of Sakura, much less one truly respects the story and writes the character a bit better than canon. Sakura suffers from negative mischaracterization in narusaku fanfic more than any other character- even the shipper rival romantic characters of Hinata and Sasuke.

Ciardha wanted to make the point that Professional writers hate fanfiction, but she did it in it in a way that offended most people.

I've heard a number of professional writers say almost exactly this as to why they hate fanfic. An example that I still remember 11 years later- "If they can't write my characters like they are, why are they stealing my story? Write your own stories!" Blunt quote from Warren Ellis (with the F word edited out for this forum...) on why he hates fanfic, promptly echoed by Lea Hernandez and other professional writers on the Warren Ellis Forum in 2000. Although Hernandez went even further and stated as far as she was concerned all fanfic with her characters were banned and she would consider legal action if she discovered any.

As I said, even some manga writers are edging toward this opinion of fanfic, all because of the negative mischaracterization of their characters. Kishimoto has made it clear he doesn't like any negative mischaracteriations of Sakura. He hasn't said that about any other character but he's made it clear that he doesn't want it about Sakura. So let's make it blunt- You are directly disrespecting Kishimoto's wishes for how he wants Sakura to be seen by fans when you write fanfic with her where you depict her more negatively than in canon.

Right there.

Saying that line right there, would have everyone here up in arms and declare arrogance. It angers me as well, I write fanfiction but I also use it as a tool for my career path. I like to write NaruSaku because I have a preference. I've had a review when I was called a Hinata hater, but I can have the same interpretations others had here that she's being seen higher then she should.

But by saying that it struck a holier than thou tone. That her view of the situation, her opinion was the superior. The rest of this argument is no longer of consequence because the belief that fan writers are disrespectful

Wow, ciardha. Since you have such high criteria about fanfics, you should really recommend us some that you find good.

This is arrogance itself. You have no right to speak for the author, pull statistics from the air or to lambast anyone else's fanfic because it doesn't meet up with your opinion.

You have hijacked a review thread to get on a soapbox about your beliefs, AND you have used one author and one story as your whipping post. An author who has now opted out of H&E. Do not pat yourself on the back or try to justify this as educating about N/S.

If you want to continue in this vein, do us all a favor and open a separate topic about it. There we can have a discussion that does not ride on the back of a review about a specific story.

@ jenskott: The issue is not posting whether you dislike a story or not. People post their dissenting reviews all the time. Polite, constructive criticism was left behind long ago. It has now moved into loud, acidic opinions that encompass the whole scope of fanfic, including what the author believes. Time for a new thread.

Lastly, this is a haven for people who like NS. We are all on the same side. The story this issue is about is a naru/saku fic and author that are incredibly popular.

Stop beating up other people with opinions. If anyone feels like it's a topic worth discussing, in a mature way, be accountable and open another thread about fanfic issue.

@ciardha - that's what you don't understand. It is not wrong. Try and justify it all you want, it does not matter. If the authors have an issue with fanfic than they will make it clear, otherwise you have absolutely no right, and I mean no right to declare something wrong because you are not Kishimoto. So until that day happens keep your reviews constructive and not degrading like you have done; which incidentally caused a member of HxE to feel so bad that as tricksie said "opted out." This is a place for people to have fun and have a good time, not for them to feel like they haven't accomplished anything.

Likewise, not understanding the flaws in a character, namely Sakura, is also disrespectful to the author. You are simply the other side of the coin and it certainly doesn't make you more right about interpreting Sakura. If you can't take a moment to understand her flaws and instead always deny or put the blame on other characters or the fans themselves, how can you say you know what the author intends? You have, time and time again, said anyone who thinks negatively of Sakura is not a true fan. I wonder then, how does that make you any different than the uber-Hinata fans that see no wrong in her character?
And even more, if Kishimoto intended something different for Sakura, it was up to him to portray her in a way that would cause no doubt for the audience. That is his job as author. It is not the audiences fault if they do not see what he sees.

My point is only this, this whole thing. Started because harry asked for the opinion for a story, but you made a small rant, then ciardha agreed but as the debate continued Madz found out and asked us to stop.

Someone decided to continue because of a fault in another's opinion, one thing led to another and here we are. I have to agree with trix that ciardha doesn't have the right to pass judgement upon everyone.

Omega paid attention to her arguement of the authors so he saw something.

Soupy is right as well that you can't remove the flaws in a character as well, isn't that what we like about Sakura as well? Because she's flawed? It's also because Kishimoto who has flaws with heroines.

And by going as far as to accuse our own writers of something how does that make you any different from uber-Hinata fans that see only the surface. Also if Kishimoto has a problem with the character he created the interpretations by not fixing a concrete point.

Look all I'm trying to say is the reason for this arguement are situated in a setting that probably wasn't the best place to begin with. Harry could've better started this in another thread but I think he was looking for a quick opinion. This Fic listing thread turned into a soapbox and went places that they probably shouldn't have gone.

Look all my point is to your response is try to leave your comfort zone once and awhile. Because it sounds like nothing was learned from this.

Now enough of that, I'm going back to writing my stuff and finishing the last of the July 4 Nachos. Nachos!

Edited by Insurrection, 05 July 2011 - 06:58 AM.

[Madz]

Hi everyone,

I am utterly, ubberly mortified and embarrassed at the drama which I’ve sort of indirectly caused. I did not use my FFN author name here on H&E simply because I wanted to enjoy H&E incognito (well, at least I used to), to be free to give opinions and argue in debates as much as I want without my stories being a background support.
I hate to draw attention to myself, especially as an author, because I am new in the writing thing and I am still at the shaking ground where opinion still matters (maybe it will never stop, lol.), and as all new authors, I’m thriving to get better and still have a long way to go and still very insecure.
But, talk about trying NOT to draw attention to myself, huh!

I feel cornered because I just want to retreat until all this dies, but unfortunately it feels as if I’m sulking in a corner asking for more attention (That’s what my 2 toddler kids do when they want attention, lol), so I feel maybe I should just face the music.

Just to clear the air, I can assure you that I’m not the type of author to sulk because someone has written something negative about my story. I’m very used to non-positive review, I’ve got it in all my stories, and I’ve always keep an open mind about them and give the reviewer all due consideration, because I appreciate that someone takes the time to write a review, even if negative! I’ve learnt many things from constructive critism, and I’m totally fine about not being able to please everyone. Heck, if great authors like Rollings and Kishimoto himself cannot please anyone, who am I to believe I can please everyone?
But the difference when writing in ffnet is you get a disapproving review once per chapter… you feel down about it, you still thank the person and you move on. And usually someone who does not like your story will not review twice.

Whereas what happened here was like being whacked … I tell myself ok, look at it with an open mind like you always do and move on, but then I was slammed down again…and again…and again. As I said…there a limit on what a still fresh writer like me can take!

As for the ‘culprit’ story, I could defend my points - trust me, I put a LOT of thought and work on my stories and try to close all loopholes, each detail is thoroughly thought and planned (I always finish my stories before starting to post) – but I not above make mistakes as well, not to forget that this is a future, almost AU fic as I specified in my AN.
And I consider myself a Narusaku fan enough to be able argue MY point of view…
But I also respect other people’s stance and opinions and I know where to draw the line. I call it being broadminded and not look into my own bubble only.
Until the Naruto series draw to an end, I would say we are all at the same level of interpretation (well I'm still biased, I should say say all NARUSAKU suporters, at least )
So, again, thank you all for your support – from the very bottom of my heart – you would not even believe how much it touched me.
Now, please allow me to take a short break (I’ll be back definitely, I love H&E), I just need a breather after all this storm, I’m sure you’ll understand…

I don’t want any bad feelings surrounding my membership here, please, I want to be able to return back comfortably, so let’s all forget about this and move on.

Thanks.
Madz.

[Nick Soapdish]

Sorry that I'm so late to the excitement. I'd weigh in and say something, but it sounds like you guys already handled it and I'd just be re-starting it. Please remember to leave only construction criticism of the fanfics - on this thread or elsewhere.

And yes, a little bit of discussion is ok in the thread, but this is primarily a listing. If people would like to discuss interpretations of canon vs. the portrayals in fanfiction, it should be in a separate thread.

ETA: And now it is split off in case people want to discuss it in a less specific manner.

[Codus N]

Long story short:

I gave a slightly harsher then intended critique of a story. specifically the merits and flaws inehrent in what I viewed as an overused quite frankly hollywoodized plot device which tends to rub me the wrong way.

some people disagreed (which I have no issue with)

someone stepped in to agree with my point of view (which i appreciate)

a number of people felt the author was under attack (S/he wasnt) and responded with personal and quite frankly uncalled for criticism of myself, my friend and my own work. (not appreicated )

the author caught wind of the brewhaha and self exiled from the forums (not my intention in the slightest nor the intention of my friend)

This ended up with uncalled for accusations of arrogance flying around. given that certain memebers have decided that one persons interpretation must be wrong and since they are unwilling or unable to make no such interpretations they must therefore be right. Thus baseless and completely uncalled for ad hominen attacks have started being thrown about dismissing said members opinion and lambasting her for her opinion. (turning said prior discussion into a Your wrong; No your wrong so nyah!! =b argument)

thats pretty well a nutshell version of the whole thing Considering my friends interpretations and predictions have been pretty spot on and well in line with my own, Ill stand by her and hold to my own opinion till i have reason to change my mind.

As to the author since my own actions originated this debacle ((again not my intention)) I sent a PM to him/her and let them know everything was cool and offered encouragement. So everyone having a hissy fit over this can please kindly butt out and back off.

Whut?? I thought I was the one who started this whole fiasco.

[primary colours123]

Hey everyone,
What happened here? Are we discussing how characterisation in fanfics differ from the canon? If yes, then yeah, they do differ, 'cause they are being written by different people than the canon writer. No two people can think alike or interpret alike, how can they write alike?
As for characterisation being worse than the manga, yes some people do that 'cause it serves their story purposes. I've seen many "popular", and I mean REALLY popular NS stories which start off with Sakura dissing Naruto for not being able to brin Sasuke back, or being overtly critical of him; which Naruto takes to heart. It is shredding both Naruto and Sakura's canon characters, but for their plots, it works. It is not necessary for everyone, or even anyone, to like it.
Similarly I've seen stories portraying Sakua in a far better almost Mary Sue-ish light than the manga. I even have some of them as my favorites. But just because I or you like them, doesn't make them any less OOC.
As for luvtoshi/Madz story is concerned, I found it good. A really good start, in a fandom which severly lacks very good fics. It is almost AU, as she said, so there is no need to criticize her on non-canonicity.
I always mention that my stories are non-canon, as most are blatant AU. Except one NS fic which I submitted here... I think....
Maybe that is what she should have done.
And as for writers being angry with fanfics, I think they should be honoured that there are people in this world who think so much about their little characters, that they make their own world for them. Yes, blatantly bashing a character due to the fanfic writer's secret wish that the original author should have done so, should be discouraged, but otherwise each and every story should be given a chance. Not every story can be a gem, but as a saying in my country goes.... "Only after looking through countless stones, you can find a diamond."
Take care.
Goes back to Hiatus

[HenryFlitzroy]

As much as i like proper Characterization, i "forgive'' (I FORGIVE THEE, OH AUTHOR OF THINE OWN STORY) quite a bit of OOC behaviour, as long as it is clear that no bashing was intended.
I do however find it amazing how fast a single word can cause me to stop reading a fanfic that im not that far into yet, example : a fic i read recently had Sakura saying : ''we are finally going to get MY(!) Sasuke back''.
This was not only Shippuuden Sakura, she also had already developed feelings for Naruto in this particular fic, that simple word just was a slap to the face of her character, and caused me to insta-close it.

With that being said, i do have a lot of respect for the people who put a lot of time and effort into making all these fics (i would fail horribly at at the attempt)
And remember Kids, ''a critic is a leggless man who teaches running to the fleet of foot'' (whoever knows where that line comes from deserves a lifetime supply of cookies).

Edited by JibJabba, 06 July 2011 - 01:17 PM.

[TwinEnigma]

Oh man what did I miss, lol.

Pfft, everyone's guilty of OOC to some degree in fanfiction. When we write, we open the door and write from our own collective views of the world we have come to know, a view gleaned not just from canon but from the summation of canon and fandom (fanfiction to fanart to forums).

In example, how many of you see pictures or futurefics of Naruto with an orange coat with black flames on the hems of the coat and sleeves?

It's an idea based in a fanart. It has saturated the fandom for years and become part of our collective subconscious. We draw on it and, stranger still, these things can in some form become a part of the canon as we achieve a sort of supersaturation and the idea gets back to the writer, where it then takes root on its own and the canon becomes adaptive (This is best exemplified in long running series, like X-Men comics, Batman, and shows like Doctor Who, where members of the fandom are now writing the official canon).

It is the same for many things in this and other fandoms, especially ones where there's a large, vocal internet presence. Indeed, your very concept of a series is shaped largely by your experiences in collectively interpreting the series with others and interacting with that fandom. Over time, any fan inevitably drifts to a section of the fandom that best matches their interpretation of what they are reading/watching, where their views are then reinforced and isolate further from the main.

urrgh and that was terribly deep, I apologize.

And now for a little less analysis of fandom and more "Why OOC is Not Always Bad/OOC"

I ascribe to multiple universe theory, in which for Sakura from World X degrees to the right, she is not quite the same as Sakura from Prime World. So I can write a story with Sakura as the Kyuubi jinchuuriki and one with her as a Regency Era maiden and both would be technically OOC, as Sakura is neither of these, but since they are not Sakura-Prime, then theoretically I can write them as IC for the world they exist in and Sakura-Prime would become a manifestation of OOC in their worlds simply because she is out of their context.

Ergo, the canon is a manifestation of the core Prime Universe. All others are derivative and subject to an infinite level of variation and parallel universes and alternate realities and dimensions. But, should character X leave any universe in their chain, they will inevitably be considered OOC when placed next to their counterparts in other worlds. Likewise, characters within any variant universe may be considered IC for the context of their universe if their universe is predicated on a fixed premise being true.

E.G. If Sakura is a high school student, then she is IC if her universe is one where they all attend high school instead of killing each other to death with sharp pointy knives and ninja magic, and could not be expected to behave exactly the same as Sakura Prime.

It's up to the writer to keep that characterization up within their own universe instead of pogoing all over the place.

tl;dr

Basically, Hypertime/Infinite Crisis - all stories are true at some moment in time and if a big bad breaks the universe, then you have multiple Sakuras fighting each other, at least one of which is contractually obliged to be an axe crazy villain.

And now I really want to do a fanfic of multiple crashing realities. Thanks, brain.

Edited by TwinEnigma, 07 July 2011 - 08:51 AM.

[Nate River]

And let me make this clear: PEOPLE READ FANFIC BECAUSE THEY WANT A VARIATION ON CANON!

That is one reason, but I think it's more varied than that.

Sometimes it is as basic as someone just wanted to read more about their favorite characters (that was why I originally started reading). Some to to reaffirm beliefs they hold or to get what they couldn't out of canon (those on the defeated side of pairing war for example).

That said, the variation is big deal for me personally. If I feel like I'm reading a regugitation of canon material I get bored. If that is all I wanted I'd not bother with fanfiction. The fics I usually really like or ones that cause me to think differently about character, further develop them beyond what I see in canon, flesh out neglected characters, and as, you said, what if's, especially about major decision points. What if they had gone the other way...

In short, if the author adds nothing of their own I don't have much interest.

[Codus N]

Ok.... *deep breath* I have a confession to make. The truth is, the moment I typed in my initial opinion here, I very much knew EXACTLY what was going to happen from a mile away. I predicted ciardha would do EXACTLY what I figured she would. Therefore, I'm also (slightly) to blame for the drama, so I kind of apologize. But that doesn't mean I will take back my words. Also, I have to admit, a part of me actually wanted to instigate this ON PURPOSE knowing what would happen. But I will stand by my initial opinion in my initial post. Because it's 100% honest. I had predicted ciardha and catsi would do as I predicted, and a part of me (shamefully, and regrettably) delighted in the fact that the two were dancing in the palm of my hand.

So, my point is I would like to apologize to everyone here as well. Especially Madz. (Keep on writing, don't give up!!!)

I deeply, honestly regret my actions and I apologize for it.

Edited by Codus N, 07 July 2011 - 02:42 PM.

[Chew]

Codus, the Great Predictor

[catsi563]

I should emphasize one thing. I was never at odds against the characterization in the story so to speak maybe a little but not totaly.

My main emphasis for criticism came from what i view as a terribly overused and quite frankly abused plot device. The whole two people who are obviously attracted and somehow convince themselves inspite of all evidence to the contrary that the sky is orange. (read they dont have any feelings and cant gave feelings) and even worse theyve gone so fiercely into denial that they convince themselves that they cannot ever have feleings less the world end and ragnarok begin.

its a plot device that primarily pops up in a lot of hollywood stories especially lately in sitcoms and tv dramas and for me just gets over used to an extreme. Hell a prime example to me was Chuck as enjoyable as I found the show the whole will they or wont they vibe wore off after the first season was over, but they extended it nearly 3 seasons adding in faux love interests and excess drama, Almost to a point of ridiculousness.

That was my only ever real criticsm of the story.

[JoHamSandwich]

That is one reason, but I think it's more varied than that.

Sometimes it is as basic as someone just wanted to read more about their favorite characters (that was why I originally started reading). Some to to reaffirm beliefs they hold or to get what they couldn't out of canon (those on the defeated side of pairing war for example).

That said, the variation is big deal for me personally. If I feel like I'm reading a regugitation of canon material I get bored. If that is all I wanted I'd not bother with fanfiction. The fics I usually really like or ones that cause me to think differently about character, further develop them beyond what I see in canon, flesh out neglected characters, and as, you said, what if's, especially about major decision points. What if they had gone the other way...

In short, if the author adds nothing of their own I don't have much interest.

Exactly.

I don't mind OOC-ness, as long as the story merits for it. There are several Naruto fics where Naruto is OOC, but the story is amazing. :O

[TwinEnigma]

My main emphasis for criticism came from what i view as a terribly overused and quite frankly abused plot device.

Not all tropes are bad.

When played right, even the most overused ones can be awesome.

For example, Naruto itself is the basic story of an optimistic and hopeful young boy with a terrible burden/hidden past that sets out on a path that will ultimately decide his fate as an adult and, in the course of his journeys and battles, grows wiser in the ways of the world, comes into adulthood and, in turn, is revealed to be the hero of prophecy. He has a romantic interest that he must prove himself to and a close friend or known rival who will ultimately betray him and is his primary competition for the affections of his lover.

...Which can be applied to King Arthur, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, etc (really this list goes on forever)

So effectively, we've seen this story before and, in part, that's why we connect to it so easily, even across language and cultural barriers. But it's how it's done that makes it or breaks it for us.

In fanfiction, it's the same principle.

For me, I have certain tropes I like more than others - I really am not a fan of Character Bash fics or Soulmates or Die for our Ship fics and I can't stand High School Special fics or complete rewrites of other series or fandoms with Naruto names slapped on them. To me, these are bad because they're overused and used badly. That's the real kicker. I have seen some awesome fanfics that do at least hit one of my berserk buttons of cliches, but I can overlook that if that cliched and overused trope is done really, really well. It's all in the handling of it and how the writer makes it theirs. Then it's transmuted into something worth sticking around for.

For example, if I ran into generic Sakura is torn between her longtime crush and the brash new tough guy at her school fic, there had better be something there to make me stick around, some way it's different from the rest. And I don't mean in a "SECRETLY SHE IS A STRIPPER WITH TRAGIC PAST AND SASUKE IS AN EVIL VAMPIRE AND NARUTO IS A SEXY WEREWOLF AND NOW SHE HUNTS THEM SO DANGEROUS SO SEXY SO SPARKLY" way. I mean, in a way that doesn't feel like the writer was doing lines and watching a movie and decided to copy paste the plot.

[Codus N]

When played right, even the most overused ones can be awesome.

EXACTLY. I'll repeat this quote from Bakuman, and to all aspiring writers, remember this one important rule:

"It doesn't matter if you use cliches, it's HOW you use it."

[Greed-Sama]

Ok, so maybe I've read a few SS fics... Don't judge me!! It was just for fun and it didn't mean anything! Anyway, in a lot of them Sasuke turns out to be a vampire. Like, huh!? I know kids there days are obsessed with Twilight, but why do we have to turn Naruto characters into vampires? The worst thing is, lots of fangirls find him sexier that way.

Sasuke is a believable vampire. He's a bloodsucker who will drain everyone's life away from Konoha. Forever. LOL.

[Gravenimage]

"Blah I will suck your blood Konoha" there was my interpretation of Sasuke as a vampire with a Dracula accent.