303 replies to this topic

[redragon88]

I understand what you mean, but considering this is Kishi we're talking about, I wouldn't put it past him. 

-The sannin fight. Why hasn't Jiraiya used the sage mode? 

-The chuunin exams. Why hasn't Naruto used the kuchiyose no jutsu? It would've been an easy win.

-The Two Hokages vs Sarutobi. Why hasn't Hashirama used the sage mode?

 

I think what these fights have in common is that these characters have an even bigger battle coming up. Therefore they don't get the merit of showcasing all their abilities when they should. I could probably think of more but I'm tired now...bleh....

 

- With Jiraiya I think it was because Tsunade had poisoned him beforehand so he was having problems with chakra.

- With Naruto, he still had some problems with the summonings, he had only previously summoned Gamabunta thanks to the kyuubi chakra.

- And I think Orochimaru purposely restrained the Hokages back then so that they wouldn't go out of control. This time around Hashirama had enough chakra to casually defy the control of the edo-tensei.

 

I get what you mean about not showcasing abilities but this is different since it's not a new ability. It's the same Sakura punch, just with more power.

 

The punch she did in this chapter was like 10 times greater than the previous ones. By that logic Sakura would've been fighting at only 10% capacity this whole time. That doesn't make any sense to me, so I can't accept that's what she did. But that's just me.

[ramenanmitsu]

 

- With Jiraiya I think it was because Tsunade had poisoned him beforehand so he was having problems with chakra.

- With Naruto, he still had some problems with the summonings, he had only previously summoned Gamabunta thanks to the kyuubi chakra.

- And I think Orochimaru purposely restrained the Hokages back then so that they wouldn't go out of control. This time around Hashirama had enough chakra to casually defy the control of the edo-tensei.

 

I get what you mean about not showcasing abilities but this is different since it's not a new ability. It's the same Sakura punch, just with more power.

 

The punch she did in this chapter was like 10 times greater than the previous ones. By that logic Sakura would've been fighting at only 10% capacity this whole time. That doesn't make any sense to me, so I can't accept that's what she did. But that's just me.

Yeah, I feel you. In the Japanese forums today, Sasori was bashed because people said he's an Akatsuki member and yet he was beaten down by a chuunin who wasn't in her full capacity    I also wish she would've used her full capabilities when facing Sasuke. Even a strong punch would be fine. But all she used was a poisoned kunai....which is a downgrade compared to the Sasori fight. 

 

Can't what is said for Hashirama, Naruto, and Jiraiya in the above apply for Sakura as well?

She didn't have enough storage yet to make the seal appear and to unleash her full potential. As you can see in this chapter, she had to wait for the diamond seal to appear to unleash her "true power". 

 

And about showcasing new abilities, with a completely different capacity I think it will be counted as a different attack. Like how rasengan is considered a different attack with Odama Rasengan/Fuuton Rasenshuriken. It still is the same variant, but it is somehow considered to be a new jutsu with the upgrade of chakra. I hope I'm making sense here 

 

In any case, hope the manga will clear this up soon 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 30 May 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Shadow Wolf and I have two theories in our heads, but we have no real way to back them up. These are just thought process

Theory 1:
Hyakugou is the name of the diamond on the head and the process of funneling chakra into said spot.
Byakugou is when you actually use said technique which including enhanced strength and healing. Possibly even the creation rebirth technique.

Theory 2:
Byakugou is the technique that is extreme healing with slight enhancement in strength
Hyakugou is the opposite with extreme enhancement in strength, but with a slight enhancement in healing.

I am thinking along the lines of the Izanami and Izanagi as they are both the same technique, but are opposite in sense of how it is used.

These are theories, nothing more.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 30 May 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[Shadow Wolf]

Just thought of posting what I've been discussing with James so far...

 

James already made a comment on it so here's the conversation:

 

Conversation

[12:07:40 PM] Scott: I actually think it is the same type of technique, but different form
[12:08:11 PM] Scott: like the izanagi and izanami
[12:09:53 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): You mean the seal?
[12:10:10 PM] Scott: yes
[12:10:25 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): How so?
[12:10:37 PM] Scott: Not sure
[12:10:45 PM] Scott: yet because we have yet to see the powers invovled
[12:11:30 PM] Scott: but...if I were to make a guess
[12:11:40 PM] Scott: perhaps the Byakugo is for healing
[12:11:52 PM | Edited 12:11:59 PM] Scott: and the Hyakugo is for enhancement
[12:12:54 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): Hmm
[12:12:58 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): I'm not sure
[12:14:40 PM] Scott: I am just judging this by what Tsunade does and she seems to use the Byakugo for healing
[12:15:01 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): Yeah, but Tsunade also has power enhancement
[12:15:12 PM] Scott: That would be the secondary effect
[12:15:19 PM] Scott: the other one is a reverse
[12:15:24 PM] Scott: more for power enhancement
[12:15:29 PM] Scott: but also does healing too
[12:15:44 PM] Scott: Like Izanagi and Izanami
[12:15:58 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): Yeah, I guess it makes sense
[12:16:00 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): Still...
[12:16:02 PM] Scott: Izanagi is cast on the user
[12:16:17 PM] Scott: Izanami is cast on the opposition
[12:16:47 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): True
[12:16:53 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): But as I was about to say
[12:17:09 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): IMO, the diamond appeared because the chakra storage is now complete
[12:17:32 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): I think she can activate it to echance her abilities even further
[12:17:58 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): I think the problem here is the following:
[12:18:13 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): Tsunade mentions Byakugou when she activates her diamond seal
[12:18:37 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): But I think the byakugou is not the activation of the seal, but rather the description of the diamond per se
[12:18:57 PM] Scott: then what's the technique name?
[12:22:30 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): This is what's confusing me even more
[12:22:54 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): As far as I know, the "byakugou" is the release of the seal to use it for power.
[12:23:26 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): Which is what Tsunade did in the fight against Madara
[12:24:01 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): But now with Shizune's words...
[12:24:23 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): I don't know if what Sakura has ie either the same Yin seal as Tsunade or a variation of it
[12:24:30 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): I would have to go with what you said
[12:24:36 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): But even so I would still be confused
[12:25:09 PM] Scott: Well, look at the one difference Sakura pointed out "I don't need to use it to look younger either"
[12:25:23 PM] Scott: Which I think falls under "healing"
[12:27:02 PM] Scott: "Rejuvanating the body"
[12:27:35 PM | Edited 12:27:44 PM] Scott: Which let's me wonder does Sakura's use the "creation rebirth technique"
[12:27:49 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): That's what we might find out in the future
[12:27:54 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): To me, she can use it
[12:28:15 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): And I would go aas far as to say that she can also used the byakugou
[12:28:23 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): But I'll have to wait for that one
[12:28:30 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): use*
[12:28:34 PM] Scott: That's what I am saying though
[12:28:46 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): Plus I don't think Tsunade is lying for two reasons
[12:28:56 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): She still doesn't know that Sakura has released teh seal
[12:28:59 PM] Scott: Byakugou is healing and Hyakugou is enhances strength
[12:29:16 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): And I don't think Sakura would jump into the frontlines and disobey Tsunade if it weren't for this reason
[12:29:43 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): You can see that even Shizune is staying behind the frontlines
[12:29:47 PM] Scott: Yeah
[12:32:48 PM] Scott: Funny enough, this might shorten Sakura's life-span
[12:33:02 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): The creation rebirth? Yeah
[12:33:11 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): Then again, she's still young

 

...

[12:38:25 PM] Scott: Oh I finally get it
[12:38:37 PM] Scott: I wonder if the Hyakugo is the name of the diamond
[12:38:48 PM] Scott: but Byakugou is the name of the technique
[12:38:54 PM] Louis (Shadow Wolf): That's what I believe
[12:38:57 PM] Scott: I get it
[12:39:04 PM] Scott: Yeah that makes sense

[StriderC]

Hmmmm... is it really necessary that she use Creation Rebirth if she's not injured to the same degree that Tsunade was? 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hmmmm... is it really necessary that she use Creation Rebirth if she's not injured to the same degree that Tsunade was? 

 

Not really. We're just saying that she might be capable of using it; and not that she is using it right now.

[redragon88]

Yeah, I feel you. In the Japanese forums today, Sasori was bashed because people said he's an Akatsuki member and yet he was beaten down by a chuunin who wasn't in her full capacity    I also wish she would've used her full capabilities when facing Sasuke. Even a strong punch would be fine. But all she used was a poisoned kunai....which is a downgrade compared to the Sasori fight. 

 

Can't what is said for Hashirama, Naruto, and Jiraiya in the above apply for Sakura as well?

She didn't have enough storage yet to make the seal appear and to unleash her full potential. As you can see in this chapter, she had to wait for the diamond seal to appear to unleash her "true power". 

 

And about showcasing new abilities, with a completely different capacity I think it will be counted as a different attack. Like how rasengan is considered a different attack with Odama Rasengan/Fuuton Rasenshuriken. It still is the same variant, but it is somehow considered to be a new jutsu with the upgrade of chakra. I hope I'm making sense here 

 

In any case, hope the manga will clear this up soon 

 

I hope so too. I really don't like the idea that she was only at 10% capacity in all of Part 2. That feels wrong in many levels, so I'm rather it's explained that because of the seal she can use more power then what her body could normally use, not that she could cause so much damage from the very beginning.

 

Something like I explained in my other post:

Sakura's original chakra levels are of 10. She trains to form her seal which will increase her chakra levels up to 50, but she can only go to 50 once the seal is complete. If it's not complete Sakura will still have her normal level of 10. If her seal disappears her chakra levels go down to 10 once again.

 

And depending on which chakra level she has she can punch with more devastating power.

 

Her maximum normal chakra capacity would be of 10, but saving up to form a seal would increase it to 50.

Edited by redragon88, 30 May 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[Chatte]

Ok what i meant with the increase / boost part was different. What I meant that they was that they had been always there, but she had to keep herself on hold for 3 years.

And let me clear a thing...while it might have been irresponsible of her to hold back on the Sasori fight and the others was that the rule for the permanent seal was that you keep it at bay for 3 years or else, the slightest 'opening of storage box' so to speak, bye bye seal.

She couldn't have formed the seal.

Therefore, in order to later have the seal permanently, for life, Sakura dicided to sacrifice her real power for 3 years, but she got the seal which permits her to continuously, for the rest of her life, storage chakra and she doesn't have to worry about not having enough chakra in order to perform a jutsu [defensive mode/regenerative abilties].

Her powers were this one that she displays now, however, there's no utility in having all that power [offensive mode] if you don't have enough back-pack chakra, in order to perform a powerful jutsu. Which she's about to show I am sure.

She would have to constantly worry she's running out of chakra supply for even more powerful jutsus so in order to never have to worry about that, Sakura sacrificed her true entire power and gave half her chakra to obtain the seal.

That's what I meant with the boost. Not that she didn't had them from the very beginning.

Edited by Chatte, 30 May 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[StriderC]

 

Not really. We're just saying that she might be capable of using it; and not that she is using it right now.

It's possible but wouldn't she have to have trained to gain something like that. I mean, she's just gotten the seal, so I think she's able to access higher chakra jutsu now. I could see her having slug summon or anything of the likes but anything directly linked to the seal is what I'm not entirely sure about tbh. 

[Chatte]

DId someone get what I tried to say?! Not to mention I am so sleepy and I have so many typos but too lazy to correct now.

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok what i meant with the increase / boost part was different. What I meant that they was that they had been always there, but she had to keep herself on hold for 3 years.

And let me clear a thing...while it might have been irresponsible of her to hold back on the Sasori fight and the others was that the rule for the permanent seal was that you keep it at bay for 3 years or else, the slightest 'opening of storage box' so to speak, bye bye seal.

She couldn't have formed the seal.

Therefore, in order to later have the seal permanently, for life, Sakura dicided to sacrifice her real power for 3 years, but she got the seal which permits her to continuously, for the rest of her life, storage chakra and she doesn't have to worry about not having enough chakra in order to perform a jutsu [defensive mode/regenerative abilties].

Her powers were this one that she displays now, however, there's no utility in having all that power [offensive mode] if you don't have enough back-pack chakra, in order to perform a powerful jutsu. Which she's about to show I am sure.

She would have to constantly worry she's running out of chakra supply for even more powerful jutsus so in order to never have to worry about that, Sakura sacrificed her true entire power and gave half her chakra to obtain the seal.

That's what I meant with the boost. Not that she didn't had them from the very beginning.

 

^ I agree with this. Well said Chatte! ^_^

 

It's possible but wouldn't she have to have trained to gain something like that. I mean, she's just gotten the seal, so I think she's able to access higher chakra jutsu now. I could see her having slug summon or anything of the likes but anything directly linked to the seal is what I'm not entirely sure about tbh. 

 

Which is why my emphasis is in the word "might". Again, I'm not saying that she can use it. I'm saying that she might be capable of using it. Think of it this way: She didn't have the diamond seal until this chapter; so before this chapter, we could not say that she could learn the creation rebirth technique. Now that we see that she has the seal, we can speculate that she has the possibility of learning the creation rebirth technique. See what I mean now? ^_^

[Dkey]

DId someone get what I tried to say?! Not to mention I am so sleepy and I have so many typos but too lazy to correct now.

 

heh yea I for one got what you meant. It means we mostly are on the same page. Basically the power she displayed right now was the power she could use for 3 years but couldn't because the seal was sapping her power.

 

Anyway I assumed that Tsunade's more advanced techniques could be accessed by having an external chakra source to replace the quantity it needed but frankly it's better this way. She can access any new abilities just by accumulating chakra and then releasing it.

Edited by Dkey, 30 May 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Gaara's hair]

DId someone get what I tried to say?! Not to mention I am so sleepy and I have so many typos but too lazy to correct now.

Yes.

[StriderC]

 

^ I agree with this. Well said Chatte! ^_^

 

 

Which is why my emphasis is in the word "might". Again, I'm not saying that she can use it. I'm saying that she might be capable of using it. Think of it this way: She didn't have the diamond seal until this chapter; so before this chapter, we could not say that she could learn the creation rebirth technique. Now that we see that she has the seal, we can speculate that she has the possibility of learning the creation rebirth technique. See what I mean now? ^_^

LOL Well then, of course she does. Given she learned the seal, I'm sure if she wants to learn it, she can.  

[ramenanmitsu]

 

I hope so too. I really don't like the idea that she was only at 10% capacity in all of Part 2. That feels wrong in many levels, so I'm rather it's explained that because of the seal she can use more power then what her body could normally use, not that she could cause so much damage from the very beginning.

 

Something like I explained in my other post:

 

Her maximum normal chakra capacity would be of 10, but saving up to form a seal would increase it to 50.

I agree, it does seem very wrong that she was only at 10% capacity.

 

But if she could use her normal power then does it match with what Shizune said?

"３年間チャクラを一定に溜め続ける"

"To keep continuously saving constant amount of chakra for three years".

 

In order to complete the Byakugo seal, Sakura had to keep saving chakra for every single moment of her life the previous three years, whether she's sleeping, eating or talking.  Hence Sakura and (most likely) Tsunade being the only ones that are able to do it and Shizune commenting, "the ultimate precision chakra control". And I think this includes when she's fighting as well. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 30 May 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

LOL Well then, of course she does. Given she learned the seal, I'm sure if she wants to learn it, she can.

Silly Strider, argument tricks are for NH fans. XD

[Chatte]

 

heh yea I for one got what you meant. It means we mostly are on the same page. Basically the power she displayed right now was the power she could use for 3 years but couldn't because the seal was sapping her power.

 

Anyway I assumed that Tsunade's more advanced techniques could be accessed by having an external chakra source to replace the quantity it needed but frankly it's better this way. She can access any new abilities just by accumulating chakra and then releasing it.

Ah, glad you got it!

And yeah, basically that's the thing. In order to perform those powerful regenerative jutsu, one has to have huuge amount of chakra supply.

So what all the power if you're not able to perfom a jutsu if you need to regenerate yourself for?

And now, yes, she can do that because she'll always have her seal to back her up.

And if Sakura did that, dunno why I think she'll always have chakra in store because think of it...she's continuously storing...

 

 

 

I agree, it does seem very wrong that she was only at 10% capacity.

 

But if she could use her normal power then does it match with what Shizune said?

"３年間チャクラを一定に溜め続ける"

"To keep continuously saving constant amount of chakra for three years".

 

Sakura had to keep saving chakra for every single moment of her life the previous three years, whether she's sleeping, eating or talking, hence Shizune commenting, "the ultimate precision chakra control." And I think this includes when she's fighting as well. 

 

Exactly! Thanks for the clear-up!

Edited by Chatte, 30 May 2013 - 05:42 PM.

[redragon88]

I agree, it does seem very wrong that she was only at 10% capacity.

 

But if she could use her normal power then does it match with what Shizune said?

"３年間チャクラを一定に溜め続ける"

"To keep continuously saving constant amount of chakra for three years".

 

Sakura had to keep saving chakra for every single moment of her life the previous three years, whether she's sleeping, eating or talking, hence Shizune commenting, "the ultimate precision chakra control." And I think this includes when she's fighting as well. 

 

I hear ya. The problem is that we lack explanation. We might get it later, I hope.

 

My only real problem is that if that really was her power all along that means she only used an extremely minimal amount of power in all of Part 2, and that just feels very wrong with me. The difference in power now is too huge.

 

Maybe it's a mixture of both, by using just 90% of her power for 3 years, while she kept constantly saving the other 10%, she is now able to increase it 1000% thanks to forming the seal. That's the only thing that would bode well with me.

Edited by redragon88, 30 May 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Dkey]

Ah, glad you got it!

And yeah, basically that's the thing. In order to perform those powerful regenerative jutsu, one has to have huuge amount of chakra supply.

So what all the power if you're not able to perfom a jutsu if you need to regenerate yourself for?

And now, yes, she can do that because she'll always have her seal to back her up.

And if Sakura did that, dunno why I think she'll always have chakra in store because think of it...she's continuously storing...

 

 

 

 

Exactly! Thanks for the clear-up!

 

it makes sense for her to have one or both of regeneration abilities. As for how she will be able to surpass Tsunade not sure yet. Increased length, increased power, no side effects. Her team mates have ranged attacks and she can compensate with going berserk

 

But you mentioned in a previous post before chp. #632 about that sword she was caring in the samurai poster? Any link to what happened this chapter?

[Chatte]

Well, that was a once in a life-time chance. If she wanted to have the seal, she had to sacrifice 3 years or else she'd always have had this problem with huge chakra reserves.