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#13021 sushi.

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:28 PM

 

Don't agree, if your going by love interest (I'm just assuming), Hinata and Sakura would be more hardworking as they both did more for the sake of their love interest, Naruto barely tried to get Sakura besides some date attempts and Kishi held him back from confessing due to him not keeping his promise

No that was not it. Hinata did not do anything to pursue Naruto, and Sakura did not seriously pursue Sasuke. NH and SS just focused more on the girls' feelings and not the mutual bond they had with their love interests, that's all.


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#13022 Rabbit

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:31 PM

Tobi is the mask.
Tobi has three persona.
Tobi is good boy.
Tobi is madara.
Tobi is nobody.


Tobi is Obito who redeemed himself by being the ultimate sacrifice.

Why are the bad guys in Naruto easily forgiven? Don't the people remember that these guys killed countless of people.

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#13023 Metalhead87

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:37 PM

Tobi is Obito who redeemed himself by being the ultimate sacrifice.

Why are the bad guys in Naruto easily forgiven? Don't the people remember that these guys killed countless of people.

 

I can only presume that one of the side effects of chakra usage is memory loss over time. Could also explain why Naruto, who has tons of chakra, forgets more or less everything that makes him who he is after the war.


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#13024 Rabbit

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:40 PM

I can only presume that one of the side effects of chakra usage is memory loss over time. Could also explain why Naruto, who has tons of chakra, forgets more or less everything that makes him who he is after the war.


That explains why Naruto never spends his time with his family. He actually forgot that he has a family.

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#13025 Metalhead87

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:41 PM

That explains why Naruto never spends his time with his family. He actually forgot that he has a family.

 

It's all so clear now lol


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#13026 Hanabi

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:44 PM

 

It counts as story development, but its bad because the reason for this story development was not good ("Madara" declaring war and every Kage staying together cause it will be easier to fight him")

i guess "closing up plot points" is a better way of wording it.

 

They united themselves against a common threat, not because they recognized errors in how they behaved past or things like that

no, onoki recognized his mistakes, tsunade persuaded raikage to trust b and nardo (instead of treating them as weapons)

This is why I said it would be better for the united alliance thing to be at the end only, to show progress in relation of how the world was before, even better if this was brought up thanks to Naruto's help

 An all out war between villages would also make Sasuke's point more clear and real. He claimed the kages were the ones who were to blame for the system failure, but well by that point all the kages were already united working together. Imagine how more impactant would be if Sasuke's point actually made sense? If the 4th ninja war was created thanks to Tobi's manipulation on the selfish wishes of some kages for example? This would make the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke a lot better, it would've added more depth to it

imo naruto helped way too much, he literally became the manga's messiah to everybody.

 

and sasuke.. will be sasuke. stuck in his vengence and not knowing what to do. (kishi admitted this lol iirc)

 

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#13027 tricksie

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:44 PM

I disagree with that. The war arc did touch on the mystery of bijuu and jins, and brought the five villages to work as a united force, which onoki and madara commented on.

The sucky part is when kishi clearly did not plan ahead.. like the op kurama vs 7 bijuu... overglorification of uchiha obito sob story. .. or the funny death of villain boss madara and retcon kaguya

 

The war delivered some new information, but it contributed nothing to the final battle. Think of the war like the chunin exam in part one. It was interesting, introduced new characters and fleshed out some we already knew and gave pacing to the story. Or even the Save Sasuke arc. (Although the save sasuke arc was more vital to the story than the war arc because all those mini-fights allowed Naruto to continue on to the bigger, over-arching goal of saving Sasuke.)

 

In the end, Naruto and Sasuke still had a brawl. The powerups, the mass casualities, the death of Neji and Asuma, the words of Itachi and the Hokages — none of it contributed to their understanding of each other, or assisted them in reaching any kind of peace.

 

In the end, Naruto and Sasuke had a bare knuckled schoolyard brawl, and only when Naruto beat Sasuke did he finally relent.

 

The over arching story was their fight and Sasuke's redemption. It carried over all the other arcs. But instead of weaving the war arc into the storyline, it's just a bubble. Once it was over, then they could fight.

 

There was no thought to collateral damage, no deeper understanding of themselves and each other. Just a fight.

 

Would Naruto still have saved Sasuke if the war hadn't happened? Yes. There is no doubt. 

 

I'm not saying the war arc wasn't an big facet of the story. It was and it filled in a lot. But it is no more important than the chunin exam was to part 1. The overarching drama of Sasuke's redemption did not hinge on the chunin exams, no more than his redemption hinged on the outcome of the war.     

 

I still think the war would have happened if Tobi didn't declare but it would have been among themselves, especially how one used Akatsuki, the other just have a Kage who is too rash, Danzou was like favoritism until they can read chakra connection somehow (wasn't aware you can read that much detail), and so on. But nope, declare war, brought peace, and make everyone wonder when HxH coming back.

 

Yes, the war would have happened, espeically for the reasons you mentioned. It was foreshadowed early on, so it was always destined to happen. But if it didn't, Sasuke would still have been redeemed some other way. In the end, the outcome didn't directly contribute to Sasuke's redemption, and Sasuke's redemption would not have impacted anyone other than Naruto.

 

And in the very last pages, we discover that Naruto and Sasuke STILL haven't buried the hatchet!! So what was the point of the story if not to materially change the two? But it didn't.

 

###

 

I could write a lot more about how the story went wrong, where Sasuke's redemption arc split off from the rest of the story and never rejoined it, and how series' like Harry Potter follow the main character's arc alone, with every incident and circumstance included in the book because it points to the culmination of Harry's story. (If we were to view Harry's story through Parvati Patil's pov, it would be full of holes and unknowns leading to his success. In short, it wouldn't be his story.)

 

Naruto has long been suffering because at some point Kishimoto confused it with Sasuke's story. And then in the end with Hinata's story. All the events in the Naruto universe that are going on around him are definitely part of what makes up his world, but they are not all important in telling Naruto's story.

 

That's what I mean by the war not being central to the story. It was filler, meant to pace out the end of the series, like the chunin exam did in the beginning. The story of Sasuke's redemption — which replaced Naruto's story of protecting the village, getting the girl and becoming the leader — only picked up again after the war was over. Not because of it.



#13028 WhyDoIWatch

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:56 PM

No that was not it. Hinata did not do anything to pursue Naruto, and Sakura did not seriously pursue Sasuke. NH and SS just focused more on the girls' feelings and not the mutual bond they had with their love interests, that's all.

 

Sakura simply couldn't pursue a relationship with Sasuke, Hinata confessed unlike Naruto (Yeah I know why)

Hinata and Sakura being more hardworking in love than Naruto and Naruto barely trying? What made you say that? :wot:

He didn't, he asked her on a few dates and that's it. 


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#13029 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:02 PM

I could write a lot more about how the story went wrong, where Sasuke's redemption arc split off from the rest of the story and never rejoined it, and how series' like Harry Potter follow the main character's arc alone, with every incident and circumstance included in the book because it points to the culmination of Harry's story. (If we were to view Harry's story through Parvati Patil's pov, it would be full of holes and unknowns leading to his success. In short, it wouldn't be his story.)

 

Naruto has long been suffering because at some point Kishimoto confused it with Sasuke's story. And then in the end with Hinata's story. All the events in the Naruto universe that are going on around him are definitely part of what makes up his world, but they are not all important in telling Naruto's story.

 

That's what I mean by the war not being central to the story. It was filler, meant to pace out the end of the series, like the chunin exam did in the beginning. The story of Sasuke's redemption — which replaced Naruto's story of protecting the village, getting the girl and becoming the leader — only picked up again after the war was over. Not because of it.

 

That's exactly what I feel too! I know that with my fanfic, I am trying to make sure I balance it out for all characters' arcs without needing to forget this is Naruto's story, no one else's. I also want to consider some new ideas for sure to make it different, even if I still got that strong hesitation to writing it. Honestly, Tricks, babe, you would be best at handling it since you got a lot of ideas of how to do things better than I do. Plus the confidence right now to work on said story effectively.

 

But you did give me some good ideas of what to consider, since I am still not too fully committed to SOME aspects of The Demon Within that I don't need to rely solely on the manga, just as I have felt with it being set up from a splinter point. Your posts are always fun to see, considering how insightful you are. ;) And it is galvanizing for sure.



#13030 sushi.

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:03 PM

 

Sakura simply couldn't pursue a relationship with Sasuke, Hinata confessed unlike Naruto (Yeah I know why)

He didn't, he asked her on a few dates and that's it. 

Because Naruto knew Sakura liked Sasuke, he showcased his love for her by trying to make her happy instead of pursuing her. It was the right thing to do, and those dates were not serious. And Hinata didn't confess to make a relationship out of it, she answered Naruto's question, and she wanted it out of her chest before she died.


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#13031 FireFox

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:05 PM

 

Sakura simply couldn't pursue a relationship with Sasuke, Hinata confessed unlike Naruto (Yeah I know why)

He didn't, he asked her on a few dates and that's it. 

Constant Pursuing is not all that matters you do realize that tight !? Being there for the person in every step of the way is what counts to , and Naruto did that and was winning Sakura's heart by the things he did for her and the way he was  he was selfless when it come to his love for Sakura . Sasuke Kuning and  Naruto Kuning all the time with selfish intentions  is not pursuing or even remotely counts as development  they can do that all they want but that is no way how you develop or set an canon relationship from a literature point of view it only makes it look ridiculous shallow and disgusting ugh! .  And we all know why Naruto wasn't allowed to "Pursue"   or "Confess" after the war  now do we !? Kikittenkittening Sellmoto Sold out to Hinakittens  Popularity and her rabid Otaku fanbase :zaru:  :roll:


Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 27 March 2015 - 04:08 PM.

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#13032 Gaara's hair

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:07 PM

Isn't this nice? We're back to debating :wow:



#13033 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:10 PM

You do know Kishi didn't plan all of this, right? So why are we trying to make sense?

#13034 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:11 PM

You do know Kishi didn't plan all of this, right? So why are we trying to make sense?

 

Maybe for closure XP


Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 27 March 2015 - 04:14 PM.


#13035 luffyq1

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:12 PM

You do know Kishi didn't plan all of this, right? So why are we trying to make sense?

but he did prolong it.


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#13036 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:13 PM

It's not meant to connect. It's just a world of its own.

#13037 sushi.

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:15 PM

You do know Kishi didn't plan all of this, right? So why are we trying to make sense?

Ok so Kishi didn't make the plan, but there was a plan and that is what I care about. The story let up to something and it's so hard to let go when it was just trashed and replaced with crap literally. x( Since the ending ignored the plan I will ignore the ending.


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#13038 luffyq1

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:20 PM

It's not meant to connect. It's just a world of its own.

but he did connect it, and that's why people are upset about it.


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#13039 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:21 PM

Ok so Kishi didn't make the plan, but there was a plan and that is what I care about. The story let up to something and it's so hard to let go when it was just trashed and replaced with crap literally. x( Since the ending ignored the plan I will ignore the ending.

My point is the whole Sasuke part and anything that is trying to connect the journey to our destination end. Realistically, there was none. In fact, realistically, there wasn't supposed to be a Chunnin Exam, where we won't even going to get a Hinata. Think about that.

#13040 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:22 PM

but he did connect it, and that's why people are upset about it.

Well, I see what you mean. That's actually worse.





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