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#1661 ciardha

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 08:13 AM

QUOTE (KnS @ Jan 24 2012, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for saying this. So many people read but never comment, so it's really cool when someone does.

Oh, and I posted Chapter 2 tonight. happy.gif


Pretty good and pretty close to canon characterization and detail except a couple of minor points that come from anime filler that contradicts manga canon.

1) In manga canon Sakura has absolutely no problem with frogs and toads, the squeamishness is from part 1 anime filler mischaracterization. Now her being anxious about stepping into a giant toad's mouth doesn't sound off canon at all though- anyone who wasn't used to toad summons would be scared, even ninja (look at Itachi's reaction when he fights Jiraiya and he does the toad jutsu...).

2) Sakura's breast size in part 2. She's not flat, she's what looks to be a standard Japanese female B cup size. Again anime mischaracterization- this time in a part 2 filler omake. Sakura hasn't been shown to feel any sense of inadequacy about her breast size at all in part 2. In fact, she tends to dress in a way that subtly hides the fact she does have breasts of a size within normal range. They are certainly larger than Karui's, who isn't quite flat herself, but on the small side- what looks to be around an A cup. Karin is the one who has the flat boyish figure. And of course Sakura does have a rather large and prominent butt and wide hips too. Of the female characters only Karui has a more prominent bottom than Sakura.

Remember as well, how Sakura flirted with Naruto when she first saw him after 2 1/2 years- "Don't I look more womanly now?"
(heh, in her moment of flirtation with Naruto she forgot about how she had her top fit to disguise her normal "womanly" breasts and her overskirt attempts to do the same for her quite womanly figure below the waist. (If you look at the cover of volume 28 Kishimoto does a bit of subtle Sakura fan service where you can actually see the size of her breasts. During the battle Sasori arc there's some more, both breasts and butt subtle fan service. wink.gif

Naruto's reaction to Sakura's clothes though was great and felt canon (and Sakura's reaction to Naruto's reaction as well), as did Sakura's mild embarrassment on feeling like the clothes put her on display for everyone. Even around other women Sakura seems to be a bit shyer than most about her body- not out of shame at not having large breasts, but that people in general would be looking at her as a woman (Note how she hides even her breasts below the water in the women's side of the hot spring resort that she, Naruto, Yamato and Sai visit. That actually parallels nicely with Naruto's subtle body self consciousness around Yamato and Sai in the same scene. (except Sakura is even moreso. Naruto is not body self conscious around people he knows of the same gender, just strangers of the same gender.) Sakura looks like she may be a little even around her age peers (the recent hot springs chapter opener illustration.) Even shy girl Hinata looks to be less body self conscious around her female age peers than Sakura. Ino and Tenten are shown to be completely comfortable being nude in a hot spring around other female age peers.

Sakura is comfortable even overtly flirting with Naruto, even in a subtly suggestive way when she offers to feed him in 343- looking at him with "bedroom eyes". Her confession had a subtle hint of sensual as well, but outside of her interactions with Naruto she tends to stay away from emphasizing her "womanliness" more than most female characters.

Edited by ciardha, 25 January 2012 - 08:27 AM.

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#1662 KnS

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE (Konan-chan @ Jan 24 2012, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
boogie.gif I really like where this fan-fic is going. wow.png It sound very much like canon which is a huge relief. The suspense is killing me though.... arg.gif

Keep up the good work! happy.gif

Thanks! I'm glad you're in suspense. Suspense is good. smile.gif

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 25 2012, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
couple of minor points that come from anime filler that contradicts manga canon.

First of all, thanks very much for taking the time to comment in such detail. I appreciate it.

Second, yeah, my story isn't -- and isn't intended to be -- 100% aligned with canon. The author's notes warn that it is "canon-compliant" but AU, and that I'm playing fast and loose with some of the technical details. I'm attempting to write in the spirit of canon, but not be a slave to it.

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 25 2012, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In manga canon Sakura has absolutely no problem with frogs and toads, the squeamishness is from part 1 anime filler mischaracterization.

I was aware of this, and to be honest I almost didn't include it for that reason. But it's a useful element in terms of where the plot is going, and I decided that borrowing a concept from anime filler wouldn't be the end of the world. And really, it's way less AU than a lot of the other stuff I'm doing.

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 25 2012, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now her being anxious about stepping into a giant toad's mouth doesn't sound off canon at all though- anyone who wasn't used to toad summons would be scared, even ninja (look at Itachi's reaction when he fights Jiraiya and he does the toad jutsu...).

To be precise, she was anxious about being swallowed by a much smaller toad -- the one that Gamabunta brought with him. A small distinction, perhaps, but an important one. I can't say more without being spoilery. wink.gif

The subtext of the toad scene is Sakura's systematic exposure to, and acceptance of, the more practical aspects of life at Naruto's side. We know from canon that Sakura truly loves Naruto and accepts him, but she has been preoccupied with her idealization of Sasuke and his "coolness" -- to which Naruto has always suffered by comparison (sometimes rightly so, lol.) Naruto's comfort with slimy toads, and her contrasting discomfort, helps me illustrate Sakura's struggle with superficiality in a "snakes and snails and puppy dog tails" sort of way.

Sakura's original perception of Naruto is a parallel to Kushina's original perception of Minato, and we all know how that worked out. smile.gif My point is, Sakura knows Naruto well -- his quirks, strengths, frailties -- but for whatever reason (insecurity, immaturity, superficiality) she has kept him at arm's length. My story is about moving them beyond their friend/teammate bond and toward a tangible and intimate partnership.

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 25 2012, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sakura hasn't been shown to feel any sense of inadequacy about her breast size at all in part 2.

(...)

Remember as well, how Sakura flirted with Naruto when she first saw him after 2 1/2 years- "Don't I look more womanly now?"

We know Sakura suffers from profound self-image problems, and in my opinion the fact that she prompted Naruto to notice her "more womanly" body was a fairly bold indication of not only her interest in him, but her need to feel physically desirable and validated -- not that she's necessarily comfortable with her physical proportions.

She may not be explicitly shown feeling inadequate about her breast size, but it is a classic objectification trope in manga/anime and it's in play in Kishimoto's story. In addition to the usual male fantasy stuff, he seems to use it to confer status. The elites -- Tsunade, Mei, Hinata -- all have large breasts, and I think that adds a subtle complexity to Sakura's self-image problems. After all, Sasuke is/was considered an elite and he rejected her as a love interest, while elite and big-breasted Hinata loves Naruto. Lots of dots to connect.

As to how all this pertains to my story, Sakura is noticing how much Naruto is changing. He's looking and acting more like a man, shouldering the fate of their world, taking charge, challenging the Raikage without fear. She's naturally going to question how well she's maturing by comparison -- physically or otherwise.

More than anything, though, is their growing attraction. Sakura is thinking more and more about physical intimacy with Naruto -- a guy who "learns, interprets the world, and expresses himself with his body more than his mind." That would be enough to rattle any girl's confidence in her body, and prompt her to judge every potential flaw more harshly than she might have before. Especially, I think, a girl who had self-image issues from the start.

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 25 2012, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Naruto's reaction to Sakura's clothes though was great and felt canon

Thanks. And thanks again for the comments. smile.gif

P.S. Mods, I'm sorry if this discussion is excessive. It's not my intention to hijack this thread, I just don't want to be rude and not answer people.

#1663 tricksie

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 11:52 PM

@KnS, no worries! I really enjoyed your story, and all the comments make it even more interesting.

I especially liked the part you quoted about Naruto experiencing through his body. It's so true and fitting. I love seeing different aspect of the characters (like this) illuminated through fanfic. Can't wait to see what's coming next for them!

#1664 ciardha

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:55 AM

Don't take this as anything hostile KnS, it's not meant that way. Just pointing out pitfalls to avoid that come from anime mischaracterization. Things that are negatively stereotypical that Kishimoto thankfully doesn't do. Likely because he knows from his wife that it tends to annoy and turn off female readers, and he knows that even in Japan a large chunk of his readers are female. (Likely this is why he also had Sakura have no squeamish reactions to frogs and toads either- again it looks too much like a stereotype about girls.)


QUOTE (KnS @ Jan 25 2012, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
She may not be explicitly shown feeling inadequate about her breast size, but it is a classic objectification trope in manga/anime and it's in play in Kishimoto's story. In addition to the usual male fantasy stuff, he seems to use it to confer status. The elites -- Tsunade, Mei, Hinata -- all have large breasts,


Hinata's family is an elite family, but she is decidedly not elite as a ninja. Karin was elite in Orochimaru's group but she is completely flat chested. (Tayuya and Kin's breasts were also no larger than Sakura's in part 2). Mito was an elite and her breast size was the same as Sakura's. Temari is an elite and her breast size is again the same size as Sakura's. Karura (Gaara's mother) was an elite and her breast size was again the same size as Sakura's. Even Kushina was, only one cup size larger- and that likely from her pregnancy- women typically go up one cup size due to pregnancy and then nursing a baby. Yoshino (Shikamaru's mother) and Tsume and Hana (Kiba's mother and sister) are elite ninja and all are Sakura's breast size or smaller. Koharu (Hiruzen's female team mate and one of the two most powerful of the village advisers and an elite ninja) has breasts no larger than Sakura's. Konan's breasts weren't large either. This is what I like about Kishimoto- he doesn't do the stereotypical shonen manga thing with most powerful female characters having big breasts. Pierrot tries to insert it into the story with fillers, but it's not there. Women in Naruto, including powerful women, have all sorts of body types.

QUOTE (KnS @ Jan 25 2012, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After all, Sasuke is/was considered an elite and he rejected her as a love interest, while elite and big-breasted Hinata loves Naruto. Lots of dots to connect.


Sasuke also rejected Ino, and showed even more decided repulsion toward her and Ino already had breasts in part 1. Sakura saw Karin had been Sasuke's partner, thus had a stronger bond with Sasuke than she had, and Karin is completely flat chested. Hinata may have had a hero worshiping crush on Naruto (which she appears in manga canon to have moved on from the crush aspect of her hero worship since chapter 450) but Naruto has no romantic feelings whatsoever for her. Naruto loves Sakura and Sakura knows he does.

And pointedly, Kishimoto has had Sakura be the only one of the girls of her generation who has been called attractive truthfully by male characters in part 2. Inari calls her beautiful, Edo Zabuza comments on how much of a kunoichi she has become, the love letter nin, etc... (I know there's at least one more example I'm missing...). The only other female of that generation that has been called attractive was told so by Sai- who he actually thought her just the opposite (Ino)- ugly in other words... (of course he called Sakura ugly too, so Sai's image of attractiveness is rather skewed wink.gif I don't think he finds women attractive, period.

Sakura wants Naruto to see her as a woman, but even a younger adolescent boy that she knew (Inari) since he was a little boy, calling her beautiful caused Sakura to blush in a self-conscious way.

Unlike in many shonen manga, Kishimoto doesn't insert the annoying stereotypical shallow (and degrading) breast sized competition between female characters. (likely due to his wife's influence- who he openly admits he does ask when he has questions about how to write a female character. It's a good influence, his characterization of female characters in part 2 has felt more realistic than in most shonen manga, and a far sight better than Pierrot's filler characterization attempts.)


Sakura also is, along with her girlish side, (by Kishimoto's own description) also a tomboy. I could easily see her (with strong curiosity) observing a pretty colored lizard running across the ground- even as a young girl. The only girly squeamishness Kishimoto does show her having back in part 1 is toward bugs (then again, even Naruto thought Shino's bugs were very creepy). She definitely prefers butterflies to crawling bugs. (Which why I wasn't that annoyed by the part 2 filler where Sakura freaked out about the roaches in Naruto's apartment.) Even in part 1 she has no negative reactions to toads, but in one special illustration Kishimoto does show her reacting with some squeamishness to the slug on her shoulder. But in part two she's basically comfortable with Katsuya- even when having to deal with hardened slime on herself she's pretty blase about it. (destruction of Konoha arc).

I think the next would probably be a spoiler for where I think you might be going with Naruto and Sakura so I'll put it in a tag
It would be quite in character for her to be even more repulsed than Naruto about the bug meals that Shima makes though. I doubt if she could bring herself to eat it at all. But she's a medic nin and would know quite well what plants would make edible food. Something Naruto would appreciate too! But Sakura could word it in such a diplomatic way she wouldn't offend Shima. Pointing out how human digestive systems aren't truly compatible with a diet of bugs, etc... Heh, Shima would be more likely to scold Naruto for not telling her this than getting offended at Sakura's words.

Edited by ciardha, 26 January 2012 - 03:59 AM.

Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971

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Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009

#1665 JoHamSandwich

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE (KnS @ Jan 21 2012, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm a lurker and not much for self-pimping, but since several members here seemed to enjoy the last Naruto/Sakura story I wrote well enough to say nice things about it here, I thought I'd mention my new one.

Wilderness is definitely AU but based on very current manga events. It will explore what could possibly happen between our favorite pair if a set of circumstances allowed them enough time alone when the stakes -- and tensions -- are high. The first chapter was posted on 1/10.


Finally took the time to read this and this is a great fic!

Keep up the awesomeness!

#1666 Codus N

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 04:07 PM

QUOTE (KnS @ Jan 26 2012, 03:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks! I'm glad you're in suspense. Suspense is good. smile.gif


First of all, thanks very much for taking the time to comment in such detail. I appreciate it.

Second, yeah, my story isn't -- and isn't intended to be -- 100% aligned with canon. The author's notes warn that it is "canon-compliant" but AU, and that I'm playing fast and loose with some of the technical details. I'm attempting to write in the spirit of canon, but not be a slave to it.


I was aware of this, and to be honest I almost didn't include it for that reason. But it's a useful element in terms of where the plot is going, and I decided that borrowing a concept from anime filler wouldn't be the end of the world. And really, it's way less AU than a lot of the other stuff I'm doing.


To be precise, she was anxious about being swallowed by a much smaller toad -- the one that Gamabunta brought with him. A small distinction, perhaps, but an important one. I can't say more without being spoilery. wink.gif

The subtext of the toad scene is Sakura's systematic exposure to, and acceptance of, the more practical aspects of life at Naruto's side. We know from canon that Sakura truly loves Naruto and accepts him, but she has been preoccupied with her idealization of Sasuke and his "coolness" -- to which Naruto has always suffered by comparison (sometimes rightly so, lol.) Naruto's comfort with slimy toads, and her contrasting discomfort, helps me illustrate Sakura's struggle with superficiality in a "snakes and snails and puppy dog tails" sort of way.

Sakura's original perception of Naruto is a parallel to Kushina's original perception of Minato, and we all know how that worked out. smile.gif My point is, Sakura knows Naruto well -- his quirks, strengths, frailties -- but for whatever reason (insecurity, immaturity, superficiality) she has kept him at arm's length. My story is about moving them beyond their friend/teammate bond and toward a tangible and intimate partnership.


We know Sakura suffers from profound self-image problems, and in my opinion the fact that she prompted Naruto to notice her "more womanly" body was a fairly bold indication of not only her interest in him, but her need to feel physically desirable and validated -- not that she's necessarily comfortable with her physical proportions.

She may not be explicitly shown feeling inadequate about her breast size, but it is a classic objectification trope in manga/anime and it's in play in Kishimoto's story. In addition to the usual male fantasy stuff, he seems to use it to confer status. The elites -- Tsunade, Mei, Hinata -- all have large breasts, and I think that adds a subtle complexity to Sakura's self-image problems. After all, Sasuke is/was considered an elite and he rejected her as a love interest, while elite and big-breasted Hinata loves Naruto. Lots of dots to connect.

As to how all this pertains to my story, Sakura is noticing how much Naruto is changing. He's looking and acting more like a man, shouldering the fate of their world, taking charge, challenging the Raikage without fear. She's naturally going to question how well she's maturing by comparison -- physically or otherwise.

More than anything, though, is their growing attraction. Sakura is thinking more and more about physical intimacy with Naruto -- a guy who "learns, interprets the world, and expresses himself with his body more than his mind." That would be enough to rattle any girl's confidence in her body, and prompt her to judge every potential flaw more harshly than she might have before. Especially, I think, a girl who had self-image issues from the start.


Thanks. And thanks again for the comments. smile.gif

P.S. Mods, I'm sorry if this discussion is excessive. It's not my intention to hijack this thread, I just don't want to be rude and not answer people.


ciardha, this is one of my gripes with you. Although it's not so surprising considering your political background, so it's easy to see why your views are very much like so. What my gripe is towards you is the fact how you're being very hypocritical of the females in Naruto. You laud Kishi for creating "realistic" females, but your view is IMO, not very realistic at all regarding them. For example, Sakura having insecurities about her physical appearance i.e. her breast size, to me would be a perfectly realistic potrayal of a realistic 16-year old teenage girl. Even if it wasn't in canon, it'd make an excellent fleshing out of her character.

Your views on Sakura is simply just in your mind and imagination, and don't get me wrong, but I will be frank, I believe your view of Sakura and other Naruto females has been far too influenced by your feminist views and beliefs to an extreme. Now, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, since you have a right to your opinion and whatsoever, but the problem is it's gotten to the point that IMO has become rather ridiculous.

KnS' perception of Sakura IMO is by far some of the most realistic ones out there. To be honest, I feel, and have noticed lately that you seem to force your opinions on someone else. Not only that, you rarely take the time to see the merits of a different opinion.

If KnS' perception of Sakura is like that, then you shouldn't try to force your views on her and let her be. As long as her characterization is not too off, it's fine. Everyone has their own perceptions of the characters in this manga.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I'll stay away from this thread for a while to avoid the fireworks like I did last time because I know exactly how you'll react.

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#1667 ciardha

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:03 PM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Jan 28 2012, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ciardha, this is one of my gripes with you. Although it's not so surprising considering your political background, so it's easy to see why your views are very much like so. What my gripe is towards you is the fact how you're being very hypocritical of the females in Naruto. You laud Kishi for creating "realistic" females, but your view is IMO, not very realistic at all regarding them. For example, Sakura having insecurities about her physical appearance i.e. her breast size, to me would be a perfectly realistic potrayal of a realistic 16-year old teenage girl. Even if it wasn't in canon, it'd make an excellent fleshing out of her character.


Considering you've never been a 16 year old female, you just can't really say what a "normal 16 year old girl" is like. I was a 16 year old girl for a whole year of my life, and no the breast size obsession seen in so many shonen manga,( but telling absent from shoujo manga and tellingly absent from Naruto) isn't the norm. Around about 12 or so, girls- as they and their female peers breasts first start coming in do think about it (but even then not on the ridiculous level in shonen manga) it''s very like the one moment Kishimoto does have Sakura thinking about it. That's it.

By 16 almost all women have their adult cup size, and dude, what you see watching Jerry Springer (or porn) is not "normal 16 year old girls", that's made up to chase ratings. (Nor adult porn stars/strippers/pole dancers/prostitutes pretending to be 16...) Normal 16 year old girls don't think much at all about their breast size unless they are completely flat like Karin or big breasted like Hinata. No, unlike what you see in many shonen manga (but refreshingly not the Naruto manga) most girls, even American girls, wouldn't want to have even a D cup (like Tsunade at 16) much less larger (Hinata, post Dan's death Tsunade, Terumi Mei).

I had a D cup at 16 and lived that experience. You get the creepy leers of adult men, they get in the way when you are reaching for things, they make your spine in between your shoulder blades ache- even at 16, you have to go up a whole extra clothes size (when all the cute tops are made for those smaller sizes, even moreso in Japan where D cup breasts are distinctly not the norm), and most normal girls (meaning not in the sex industry or a guest on Jerry Springer) with breasts that large are hideously embarrassed by them (even in the US, much moreso Japan)- ala how Hinata attempts to hide hers with the jacket. Having a B (or C cup in the US) is viewed as attractive- you are a beautiful woman. D or larger you get the leers of sexual objectification- to a 16 year old girl that's not cool, it's scary. (to an adult women it's annoying.)

Yoko Ono was one of those rare Japanese girls who had D cup breasts, and that was a major reason why she started wearing loose fitting black clothes all the time- starting as a teenage girl. No, women in both Japan and the US tend to see as ideal their country's average breast size, for Japan that is a B cup, for the US C cup (B is actually the norm in most of the world, in fact, the US is abnormal.)

The Japanese norm is a B cup- Sakura's size. Kishimoto told you she was a normal Japanese girl, he even gives her the ideal average build: B cup breasts, wide hips and prominent bottom, sturdy athletic thighs, curvy legs with slender ankles. And again I note Sakura is the only female of her generation in the manga who has had male characters truthfully call her attractive in some fashion. Sakura is considered an attractive young woman in that world. Enough so that it's been remarked as such by male characters, and male characters besides Naruto (who found her attractive even in part 1- when others commented on her unattractiveness)

QUOTE (Codus N @ Jan 28 2012, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your views on Sakura is simply just in your mind and imagination, and don't get me wrong, but I will be frank, I believe your view of Sakura and other Naruto females has been far too influenced by your feminist views and beliefs to an extreme. Now, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, since you have a right to your opinion and whatsoever, but the problem is it's gotten to the point that IMO has become rather ridiculous.


laugh.gif Nope based on manga canon. You've said elsewhere that you are tired of the manga, being bored by the manga leads to not reading it but skimming it. You've clearly skimmed over all of Sakura's character development. You've stated before you aren't really interested in her character as she's written in manga cannon.

Pierrot tries to insert the annoying typical shonen manga girls obsessing about breast size and being hideously jealous of women with enormous breasts, but that is not normal for girls or women in the US or Japan. In fact, if you naturally have D cup or larger you are more likely to get sympathy from other women- we women know all about the back pain and inconvenience of large breasts, no matter what our breast size is.
Dream you dream alone is only a dream, but dream we dream together is reality- Yoko Ono 1971

When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono

Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009

#1668 Amy-chan

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:40 PM

Ummm just to say lots of girls worry about there breast size.


#1669 ciardha

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 07:04 PM

QUOTE (Amy-chan @ Jan 28 2012, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ummm just to say lots of girls worry about there breast size.


Not in the obsessive way it's portrayed in shonen manga. It's done that way in shonen manga to create fan service moments. Women that have average size breasts- like Sakura in part 2, rarely even think about them except when they are buying bras or clothes that are fitting around the breasts or doing a sexy pose in a cute outfit for the person they are dating. (and then in a positive way). We don't focus obsessive on the breasts, breasts are just one part of our bodies, we think about the whole body if we think about our breasts- size of our hips and butt, width of our thighs and upper arms, face shape, shapeliness of our calves and the size of our ankles, our hair, etc...

Frankly, we women are "obsessed" with our hair rather than our breasts, yet I've seen almost no shonen manga ever have a girl or women thinking about her hair. (Naruto is a notable exception) Note, in shoujo manga it does get mentioned, while breast size commentary doesn't. Shoujo manga is written by women for girls. Shonen manga is mostly written by men for boys. Kishimoto has stated openly that he does ask the women in his life for tips on how to write girls and women, this is why the breast size obsession you see in most shonen manga is not in Naruto.
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#1670 Greed-Sama

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 28 2012, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Considering you've never been a 16 year old female, you just can't really say what a "normal 16 year old girl" is like. I was a 16 year old girl for a whole year of my life, and no the breast size obsession seen in so many shonen manga,( but telling absent from shoujo manga and tellingly absent from Naruto) isn't the norm. Around about 12 or so, girls- as they and their female peers breasts first start coming in do think about it (but even then not on the ridiculous level in shonen manga) it''s very like the one moment Kishimoto does have Sakura thinking about it. That's it.

By 16 almost all women have their adult cup size, and dude, what you see watching Jerry Springer (or porn) is not "normal 16 year old girls", that's made up to chase ratings. (Nor adult porn stars/strippers/pole dancers/prostitutes pretending to be 16...) Normal 16 year old girls don't think much at all about their breast size unless they are completely flat like Karin or big breasted like Hinata. No, unlike what you see in many shonen manga (but refreshingly not the Naruto manga) most girls, even American girls, wouldn't want to have even a D cup (like Tsunade at 16) much less larger (Hinata, post Dan's death Tsunade, Terumi Mei).


And just because you were one, for one whole year of your life, doesn't automatically give you the credentials to make sweeping generalizations such as these. There are 3.5 billion women on the planet, I'm sure a fair number of these actually are sensitive about this. In fact my sister was very sensitive about this issue when she was 16. Now I do concede that I don't think Sakura suffers from this, she's a shinobi and has other more pressing concerns at the moment.


QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 28 2012, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
laugh.gif Nope based on manga canon. You've said elsewhere that you are tired of the manga, being bored by the manga leads to not reading it but skimming it. You've clearly skimmed over all of Sakura's character development. You've stated before you aren't really interested in her character as she's written in manga cannon.


Codus is right about this. You force your opinions on what you think Sakura's character is, giving little to no leeway to anyone. I read the manga very thoroughly to make sure I'm not missing anything and most of the things you say are assumptions you make. The "factual evidence" can be used to support anything. Any scientist or man of reason knows this very well. Human error is very much a problem in interpretation of the written language, not to mention that this is Japanese being translated into English. There's such a thing as reading between the lines too far.

You are allowed to have your opinions, but telling a writer that they are flat out wrong is not for you to say. You are not Kishimoto. /End story
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#1671 Codus N

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:09 AM

QUOTE (TheOmegaMan @ Jan 29 2012, 02:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And just because you were one, for one whole year of your life, doesn't automatically give you the credentials to make sweeping generalizations such as these. There are 3.5 billion women on the planet, I'm sure a fair number of these actually are sensitive about this. In fact my sister was very sensitive about this issue when she was 16. Now I do concede that I don't think Sakura suffers from this, she's a shinobi and has other more pressing concerns at the moment.




Codus is right about this. You force your opinions on what you think Sakura's character is, giving little to no leeway to anyone. I read the manga very thoroughly to make sure I'm not missing anything and most of the things you say are assumptions you make. The "factual evidence" can be used to support anything. Any scientist or man of reason knows this very well. Human error is very much a problem in interpretation of the written language, not to mention that this is Japanese being translated into English. There's such a thing as reading between the lines too far.

You are allowed to have your opinions, but telling a writer that they are flat out wrong is not for you to say. You are not Kishimoto. /End story


Thank you. yes.gif

I agree and concede Sakura doesn't suffer from this, but that doesn't mean she doesn't think about it from time to time. Hell, when you consider Ino is her best friend, I wouldn't be surprised if Ino made some small jabs from time to time about it.

248793.jpg


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#1672 Dragunov

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:30 AM

Again, why are we arguing?

#1673 AchikaMiyu

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 01:12 PM

Time to get the thread back on track:

This is a story that I've been enjoying, but I don't know if the final pairing, or if any at all, will be Narusaku. It starts off with some Sasusaku, but quickly deviates away from that. It's coded as Kyuubi/Sakura, but there is Naruto/Sakura interaction in there. Either way, give it a try and see if you like it: Well in Hand
End of line.

#1674 Gnosismaster

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:26 PM

QUOTE (AchikaMiyu @ Jan 29 2012, 07:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Time to get the thread back on track:

This is a story that I've been enjoying, but I don't know if the final pairing, or if any at all, will be Narusaku. It starts off with some Sasusaku, but quickly deviates away from that. It's coded as Kyuubi/Sakura, but there is Naruto/Sakura interaction in there. Either way, give it a try and see if you like it: Well in Hand



Good story. Do you know if he's contiuning it?

#1675 ciardha

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:37 PM

QUOTE (Dragunov @ Jan 29 2012, 06:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again, why are we arguing?


Codus and Omega stalk me on this forum because I remind them of their moms, and they haven't grown past the stage of being afraid of women like their mothers. laugh.gif One of the two has outright stated that I freak him out because he thinks I'm like his mom and older sisters. Sorry dudes, you aren't my type. I like guys like Minato.
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#1676 Gravenimage

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 30 2012, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Codus and Omega stalk me on this forum because I remind them of their moms, and they haven't grown past the stage of being afraid of women like their mothers. laugh.gif One of the two has outright stated that I freak him out because he thinks I'm like his mom and older sisters. Sorry dudes, you aren't my type. I like guys like Minato.


Whoa I will have to say lol. laugh.gif
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#1677 catsi563

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:39 PM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 30 2012, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Codus and Omega stalk me on this forum because I remind them of their moms, and they haven't grown past the stage of being afraid of women like their mothers. laugh.gif One of the two has outright stated that I freak him out because he thinks I'm like his mom and older sisters. Sorry dudes, you aren't my type. I like guys like Minato.


You go girl! laugh.gif
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#1678 Fyuria'sLeo

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:41 PM

Cant wait till there girlfriends see this....

Also guys like minato dont exist.

Edited by Fyuria'sLeo, 30 January 2012 - 08:45 PM.

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#1679 Greed-Sama

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jan 30 2012, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Codus and Omega stalk me on this forum because I remind them of their moms, and they haven't grown past the stage of being afraid of women like their mothers. laugh.gif One of the two has outright stated that I freak him out because he thinks I'm like his mom and older sisters. Sorry dudes, you aren't my type. I like guys like Minato.


Remind me of my mom? My mom pulled a gun on my father, and drove through my house with her car. The woman suffers from bipolar disorder amongst other things. If your going to make accusations like these you better be prepared for the consequences. Stalking is a serious offense. Just because I do not like you or most of your opinions, does not mean I sit here everyday on my computer looking to bring you into a fight.

/End story.
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#1680 Smiter

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:01 PM

Ciardha, Codus N, and TheOmegaMan:

Drop it and cool off, all of you. Just agree to disagree, there is no need for an escalating argument. Ciardha, I'm disappointed that you have made a personal attack, I expect more maturity.

Thank you all. Now, let's get this thread back on track.




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