54175 replies to this topic

[VanitasDS76491]

Moon_Girl just posted something on the general thread.

 

SS appeal is they are the standard Shoujo pairing. I mentioned this years ago but if your were to make Sakura the main character the dynamic between her and her teammates are very common in Shoujo manga. Sakura is the plain average quirky girl with some self esteem issues that wants to find love. Sasuke is the rich mysterious bad boy that secretly harbors feeling for main girl despite often pretending not to care. Naruto is the friendly energetic guy that clearly likes main girl but isn't going to get with her because he isn't as sexy as dreamy bad boy.

 

Read The Class President is a Maid as an example.

 

Sasuke is the cool dreamy bad boy the girls want to fix. Sakura is their insert character. Sasuke is popular in Japan.

 

Though like Moon_Girl says they like SS but they knew it shouldn't have happened because everyone over there knew NS was the story's pairing. They are continuing to watch Boruto because the anime feeds them scenes of their pairing every once and awhile when they need money.

 

No. Link?

[VanitasDS76491]

can you guys see this video happening with naruto and sakura

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Kishimoto copied the base of the Slam dunk love triangle and added
 secondary characters loving each of the major.
 
Sakuragi=>Haruko=>Rukawa  =   Naruto=>Sakura=>Sasuke +  Hinata=>Naruto, Lee=>Sakura and Ino=>Sasuke
 
 
Rukawa ignored Haruko because he was obsessed with being the best basket player = Sasuke ignored Sakura because he was obsessed with killing itachi    

At least Slam Dunk showed Haruko had signs of falling for Hanamichi and left it up in the air in the long run compared to the crap Naruto pulled

[luans7]

At least Slam Dunk showed Haruko had signs of falling for Hanamichi and left it up in the air in the long run compared to the crap Naruto pulled

Yes,Slum Dank is much better

Edited by luans7, 26 May 2021 - 03:32 AM.

[Moon_Girl]

Moon_Girl just posted something on the general thread.

 

SS appeal is they are the standard Shoujo pairing. I mentioned this years ago but if your were to make Sakura the main character the dynamic between her and her teammates are very common in Shoujo manga. Sakura is the plain average quirky girl with some self esteem issues that wants to find love. Sasuke is the rich mysterious bad boy that secretly harbors feeling for main girl despite often pretending not to care. Naruto is the friendly energetic guy that clearly likes main girl but isn't going to get with her because he isn't as sexy as dreamy bad boy.

 

Read The Class President is a Maid as an example.

 

Sasuke is the cool dreamy bad boy the girls want to fix. Sakura is their insert character. Sasuke is popular in Japan.

 

Though like Moon_Girl says they like SS but they knew it shouldn't have happened because everyone over there knew NS was the story's pairing. They are continuing to watch Boruto because the anime feeds them scenes of their pairing every once and awhile when they need money.

 

At least Maid-Sama's couple was mutually in love and not abusive.   

But yeah, SS/Team 7 love triangle is very 'shojo' cliché gone wrong. At least in shojos, the man actually cares for and loves the girl, unlike SS.
When I started Naruto, I was a big Shojo nut and not even I supported SS. Leave the shojo to the shojo authors/artists.

SS was popular because it hit the mark for shojo lovers and girls who found the sauce to be 'hawt'. But I don't think people expected it to happen. Just because a ship is popular doesn't always mean they want or expect it to happen in canon, either. Sometimes they just enjoy a pairing in their own fantasy mind. Looking back on early SS fanart and such, this was very much it. 
I mean, geez, they should at least be in somewhat touch of how fandoms work if they're going to try and base things off the fandoms. And not BE a part of the fandom, due to bias. (See the editors and anime studio Hinatards that are at least 50% to blame for this crapshoot of an ending)
I mean, people will ship anything and everything. Not exaggerating and I'm sure a lot of you are aware as well of this. People who HATE each other guts usually end up the top (or among the top) ship for a lot of fandoms. 
People who have never met could be top ships. People who are horrible for each other. Who are boring ships. Bad ships. Cross over ships. Illegal ships. Ect. Doesn't matter, people will ship.

Considering how little they get from international sales, I wonder if the new editors and anime studio Hinatards only used Hinatata's popularity in the West as a reason to back up their own selfish desires. 

[catsi563]

the thing abiout the shojo comparison though is that most of those ALWAYS show development in small doses sometimes large doses

take a movie i just watched call A Silent Voice. the MC as a young child bullies the MFC a deaf girl and does so in some trully heinous ways. But it shows him slowly grow and change as he realizes what hes done to her. And as the movie progresses he makes amends. the relationship between the two progresses in a visible manner from start to finish where one can trace it easily

 

SS has no such progression. it simply is stated that Sakura is in love with him and it never advances anywhere from there save an awkward apology and a forehead poke and we the audience are meant to construe this as true love especially after Sasuke outright stated he had no feelings for her whatsoever

[Nostradamus]

I haven't watched that season since it came out, but I don't remember an American flag being burned. I think they just said they weren't going to use the American flag for their new nation state they wanted to form. Which you could make the case for since in that timeline all they knew from the old America was slavery and Jim Crow. I guess the reasoning for them being communists was that they had only ever lived under American democracy and Japanese fascism and neither were ideal, even though obviously communism wouldn't have been any better.

 

Anyway with regards to Naruto, it seems like more and more Shonen writers don't want to make their male characters look bad by rejecting a female character that is interested in them. That's the lesson I took away from Naruto and I have noticed the same pattern in other Shonen series as well. I'm not necessarily for or against that being the case, but it seems to be a pretty good indicator of what the endgame is going to be regardless of there being tons of development or none at all. 

Thank you for answering my question. As someone who comes from a communist country, I have so much I wanna say, but this isn't the place for it, nor am I in the mood for it now.

 

On Naruto. That's just stupid. That means there's no point in following a pairing because of the development when it will be thrown in the trash on a whim for the first bimbo that says she likes the main character.

[Bail o' Lies]

The thing about the shojo comparison though is that most of those ALWAYS show development in small doses sometimes large doses

Take a movie I just watched call A Silent Voice. The MC as a young child bullies the MFC a deaf girl and does so in some truly heinous ways. But it shows him slowly grow and change as he realizes what he has done to her. And as the movie progresses he makes amends. The relationship between the two progresses in a visible manner from start to finish where one can trace it easily

 

SS has no such progression. it simply is stated that Sakura is in love with him and it never advances anywhere from there save an awkward apology and a forehead poke and we the audience are meant to construe this as true love especially after Sasuke outright stated he had no feelings for her whatsoever

The small doses are most the arcs while the large doses are the writer going, "oh crap its been about a hundred chapter since something happened between these two."

 

It wasn't suppose to  and the writer never liked the pairing in the first place. it happened to pair the spare and money.

 

At least Maid-Sama's couple was mutually in love and not abusive.   

But yeah, SS/Team 7 love triangle is very 'shojo' cliché gone wrong. At least in shojos, the man actually cares for and loves the girl, unlike SS.
When I started Naruto, I was a big Shojo nut and not even I supported SS. Leave the shojo to the shojo authors/artists.

SS was popular because it hit the mark for shojo lovers and girls who found the sauce to be 'hawt'. But I don't think people expected it to happen. Just because a ship is popular doesn't always mean they want or expect it to happen in canon, either. Sometimes they just enjoy a pairing in their own fantasy mind. Looking back on early SS fanart and such, this was very much it. 
I mean, geez, they should at least be in somewhat touch of how fandoms work if they're going to try and base things off the fandoms. And not BE a part of the fandom, due to bias. (See the editors and anime studio Hinatards that are at least 50% to blame for this crapshoot of an ending)
I mean, people will ship anything and everything. Not exaggerating and I'm sure a lot of you are aware as well of this. People who HATE each other guts usually end up the top (or among the top) ship for a lot of fandoms. 
People who have never met could be top ships. People who are horrible for each other. Who are boring ships. Bad ships. Cross over ships. Illegal ships. Ect. Doesn't matter, people will ship.

Considering how little they get from international sales, I wonder if the new editors and anime studio Hinatards only used Hinatata's popularity in the West as a reason to back up their own selfish desires. 

It an example for something him to look at instead of just constantly asking why. Granted Tamaki was more mysterious then dark.

 

People fantasize about a lot of pairing that don't fit in story. Most common turning characters gay so two hot guys get together.

 

Again Naruto was different because the international fanbase was it main selling point to the higher ups. It was a mixture of seeing what they wanted to see and poor research. They wanted Hinata to be popular so they looked to find that popularity...not that it was that hard Hinata's fans were always vocal. But didn't check to make sure they back up their support with the purchase of products. Also what I mentions before that people moved on 6 years before the ending even happened.

[RedFaction]

Thank you for answering my question. As someone who comes from a communist country, I have so much I wanna say, but this isn't the place for it, nor am I in the mood for it now.

 

On Naruto. That's just stupid. That means there's no point in following a pairing because of the development when it will be thrown in the trash on a whim for the first bimbo that says she likes the main character.

I agree that it is stupid, but it seems there is an impression that since it's a battle manga it doesn't matter if the romance makes any sense or not. In Naruto's case, Kishimoto made zero effort actually establishing how NH and SS could come to be in the ending, but it didn't matter since it still was enough to get the sequel series established and wash his hands of the series (until he came back just recently).

[Phantom_999]

The size of the fanbase that loved Hinata was a myth but there were still people obsessed with her, and Kishimoto didn't understand why. Since one she isn't his type and two she never did anything he felt to warrant such devotion/obsession.

 

In most cases, the international fanbase is largely unimportant to anime/manga, but its different for Naruto because its international fanbase is its selling point. But the poll is largely unimportant still it would be funny if Bolt was near the bottom and Salad near the top, again. Doesn't mean Kishimoto would do anything with her more than what he did this last chapter, and he will likely do that same thing like what he did with hinata; well she is already popular without me doing anything so why changed that?

 

And I will keep saying, Hinata was a satellite character of Neji. Her importance to kishimoto was getting people invested in the Naruto v. Neji fight, and then marry Neji so he can become clan head to fix their clan.

 

As for Sakura he would have kept doing with her what he was doing under yahagi.

 

In either case her character did not really fill in her actual purpose or at least a purpose that would make her more than just a mindless Naruto fangirl, which again there is this funny double standard that any girl that was a fan girl of Sasuke got a pass except for Sakura. Even if Hinata was meant to be a satellite character for Neji to deal with their family issues, that boat was sunk with his death, and afterward Kishi did not know what to do with her just like almost all of his other one note characters. and I'm sure we call all agree that if Kishi needed an EDITOR to dictate how he should handle the love interest, then once again it shows his incompetence with his own story, but on the flip side that shows that it is a 2 way street and once again that Hinata was intended from the beginning to be Naruto's spouse a a big fat lie so NH hierophants can't act like there was no writing the romance by the seat of whoever's pants it was be it Kishi or someone else. So there WAS "winging it" with NH, that is indisputable proof.

 

At least Maid-Sama's couple was mutually in love and not abusive. 

 

But yeah, SS/Team 7 love triangle is very 'shojo' cliché gone wrong. At least in shojos, the man actually cares for and loves the girl, unlike SS.

When I started Naruto, I was a big Shojo nut and not even I supported SS. Leave the shojo to the shojo authors/artists.

 

SS was popular because it hit the mark for shojo lovers and girls who found the sauce to be 'hawt'. But I don't think people expected it to happen. Just because a ship is popular doesn't always mean they want or expect it to happen in canon, either. Sometimes they just enjoy a pairing in their own fantasy mind. Looking back on early SS fanart and such, this was very much it. 

I mean, geez, they should at least be in somewhat touch of how fandoms work if they're going to try and base things off the fandoms. And not BE a part of the fandom, due to bias. (See the editors and anime studio Hinatards that are at least 50% to blame for this crapshoot of an ending)

I mean, people will ship anything and everything. Not exaggerating and I'm sure a lot of you are aware as well of this. People who HATE each other guts usually end up the top (or among the top) ship for a lot of fandoms. 

People who have never met could be top ships. People who are horrible for each other. Who are boring ships. Bad ships. Cross over ships. Illegal ships. Ect. Doesn't matter, people will ship.

 

Considering how little they get from international sales, I wonder if the new editors and anime studio Hinatards only used Hinatata's popularity in the West as a reason to back up their own selfish desires.

 

Again. SS is a shojo romance with NONE OF THE POSITIVES. Sasuke showed no redeeming traits to start a romance of any kind with Sakura and Sakura showed nothing but meek spineless passivity towards him whereas a typical shojo protagonist would stand up for herself when push comes to shove. SS is not a shojo romance, it is HOW NOT TO WRITE A SHOJO ROMANCE lol

Edited by Phantom_999, 29 May 2021 - 12:26 PM.

[catsi563]

 

The small doses are most the arcs while the large doses are the writer going, "oh crap its been about a hundred chapter since something happened between these two."

 

It wasn't suppose to  and the writer never liked the pairing in the first place. it happened to pair the spare and money.

 

 

Actually in a well done manga the large doses are actual crux events that are where the relationship takes a large step forward the H&E bridge scene as example and Sakuras confession would have both been examples  Orhimes silent confession to an unconscious ichigo is another 

when done right those moment propel the romance and by extension the story along 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 
Actually in a well done manga the large doses are actual crux events that are where the relationship takes a large step forward the H&E bridge scene as example and Sakuras confession would have both been examples  Orhimes silent confession to an unconscious ichigo is another 

when done right those moment propel the romance and by extension the story along 

Here, here!

[Shashank95]

Oh my god. It's been over 5 or 6 years but I finally recovered my account and came back into the site. 

It's amazing to see people still be active and keep the community alive! Hope everyone's been safe and doing well. I have a few years worth of discussion to catch up to, it looks like!

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Oh my god. It's been over 5 or 6 years but I finally recovered my account and came back into the site. 
It's amazing to see people still be active and keep the community alive! Hope everyone's been safe and doing well. I have a few years worth of discussion to catch up to, it looks like!

Welcome back.

[Hokage Sennin]

Oh my god. It's been over 5 or 6 years but I finally recovered my account and came back into the site. 

It's amazing to see people still be active and keep the community alive! Hope everyone's been safe and doing well. I have a few years worth of discussion to catch up to, it looks like!

Same here. Welcome back!

 

Moved on to other things, but some sort of epiphany shortly after watching Demon Slayer Mugen Train made me think of you chill folks over here. I'm back not so much because of the shipping, but because of you guys!

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Same here. Welcome back!
 
Moved on to other things, but some sort of epiphany shortly after watching Demon Slayer Mugen Train made me think of you chill folks over here. I'm back not so much because of the shipping, but because of you guys!

Hey we all enjoy the company we keep here so welcome back to the mix!

[BlueStarSaber]

Say does anyone have that interview where kishimoto was saying how sakura was being honest about her feelings in the land of iron?

[Chatte]

The only thing I could find was this, from the old NaruSaku Fanclub on Deviantart.

 

https://www.devianta...t=100&offset=20

 

I know at some point I asked a friend of mine to translate me some parts of that interview but jfc, I didn't keep tabs of everything, so most of the info got lost on the internet.

Edited by Chatte, 21 June 2021 - 02:04 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The only thing I could find was this, from the old NaruSaku Fanclub on Deviantart.
 
https://www.devianta...t=100&offset=20
 
I know at some point I asked a friend of mine to translate me some parts of that interview but jfc, I didn't keep tabs of everything, so most of the info got lost on the internet.

I hate when that happens too. Too bad Kishi wasn't strong enough to stick to what he claimed about all this

[BlueStarSaber]

The only thing I could find was this, from the old NaruSaku Fanclub on Deviantart.
 
https://www.devianta...t=100&offset=20
 
I know at some point I asked a friend of mine to translate me some parts of that interview but jfc, I didn't keep tabs of everything, so most of the info got lost on the internet.

Thanks