54175 replies to this topic

[Namaenash]

Just wanted to say I love your post. They give me so much joy. Thank a lot man
Just one thing, are Manga's sales really important or is more, how well aired Boruto and all his merchandise?

For Naruto franchise, manga sales accounts for ~80% of the franchise estimated gross revenue (https://en.m.wikiped...edia_franchises).

Naruto franchise estimated revenue breakdown (a behemoth $10 billion franchise):
Manga magazine $6.53 billion
Manga volumes $1.637 billion
Licensed merchandise $1.27 billion
Video games $761 million
Home entertainment $254 million
Anime box office $147.1 million

Every franchise have their own money-generating channel, each channel has its own independent supply chain. For Naruto franchise, that engine has always been predominantly manga. It's no doubt, Naruto was one of the largest franchise SWJ has ever produced --before 2015.

As you can see from the breakdown, anime channels combined (home entertainment and box office movies) contributed to less than 5%.

It is known that anime doesn't generate that much revenue, but it is required for brand awareness.

Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise is worth $20 billion, twice of Naruto's worth. Yet its anime revenue has always below Naruto franchise according to TV Tokyo annual report. Its main revenue stream comes from merchandise. So, for this franchise, it's okay to perform mediocre on anime channel --good enough to advertise for its merchandise to be sold.

Naruto franchise has always been generating revenue through its manga sales. Which explains why before Boruto era, we got one movie per year for this franchise. They have enough to spend to make movies. It's very odd that the franchise didn't produce any movie after 2015, where the market was climbing up. In 2019, anime market value worth twice compared to 2009. One reason might be the producer don't have enough confidence that investing in a movie will yield a good enough return on manga sales.

Edited by Namaenash, 04 January 2021 - 11:56 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

All things considered, I'm glad that such move resulted in:

- Less than 1 million manga sales in 2019 (to be precise, it sold 600.845 copies for all volumes in the whole year of 2019). As a comparison, the franchise sold ~250million accumulative total between 2000-2015

- Kishimoto's new manga got axed within 5 volumes. He was planning for at least 10.

- No movies since 2015 while every other franchise enjoys growth as anime market is expanding twice the size compared to a decade ago (https://www.animenew...ion-yen/.166579)

- The latest major game they produce (Shinobi Striker) sold 10k in the first week. Storm 3 sold 9 times more in the same timespan.

And many more facts that indicated the move to pivot the story at last minute has killed the franchise financially.

One can't justify an F mark to be seen as good. It is what it is. The fact that such move backfired will ensure that other series should not follow suit.

 

You got anything on 2020 sales?

[Phantom_999]

Alright I'm gonna reiterate another Argument I've beaten to death now, But I want to grant some more perspective on it, even though we al know the general gist of it.

 

Naruto and Hinata's relationship doesn't have any foundation built in the story and therefore their romance has no CONTEXT. What are the circumstances between Naruto and Sakura that makes them a believable couple and why non-pairing fans even question why aren't they together? Sakura crying when she hears Naruto could die if he loses his tailed beast or when Kabuto told her Naruto's resolve to take Sasuke back from Orochimaru has him willing to lose himself to his mindless tailed beast state is the result of that desperation. When she offered to feed him his ramen because his right arm in incapacitated and he could hold his chopsticks with his left. When she hugged him and thanked him in front of all the villagers and their peers. This is all context that heavily implies if not outright confirms Sakura is intended to be the love interest of Naruto, and no one that doesn't treat the very possibility of Sakura starting a relationship with Naruto AS THE VERY CRISIS OF THEIR EXISTENCE, would question it. Naruto and Hinata don't have that context, for a twofold reason. 1. Hinata barely pops up in the story as is, and even taking filler episodes in consideration for anime only watchers, she hardly changes her prominence in the story. 2. Her presence is of BARE MINIMUM relevance and importance to Naruto. If she was suppose to be the "love interest", I repeat, she would have done at least some of those intimate scenes with Naruto instead of Sakura. but she doesn't. Not to mention, the very reason Naruto married Hinata should, in fact insult the fans that wanted them together too, because they needed a post story movie to make it happen. A MOVIE that might I add, outright confirms that any "context" of Hinata being Naruto's love interest in the actual manga/anime is either irrelevant or "non-existent" because they had to make new B#!! S%@& up in that very movie. 

 

And before they can say "Ooooooh, Naruto is not a romance manga", I have to ask " DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW THE CONTEXT FOR NOT A ROMANCE MANGA? We've all seen it. Dragonball, Bleach , One Piece, Kimetsu no Yaiba, Fist of the North Star, Saint Seiya, Hunter X Hunter etc. etc. DO NOT TELL ME  that Naruto is not a romance manga when those romantic undertone moments between him and Sakura show up, because if "not a romance manga" was the intention, those moments shouldn't have existed at all.

 

End of mini rant.  

Edited by Phantom_999, 06 January 2021 - 07:18 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Alright I'm gonna reiterate another Argument I've beaten to death now, But I want to grant some more perspective on it, even though we al know the general gist of it.
 
Naruto and Hinata's relationship doesn't have any foundation built in the story and therefore their romance has no CONTEXT. What are the circumstances between Naruto and Sakura that makes them a believable couple and why non-pairing fans even question why aren't they together? Sakura crying when she hears Naruto could die if he loses his tailed beast or when Kabuto told her Naruto's resolve to take Sasuke back from Orochimaru has him willing to lose himself to his mindless tailed beast state is the result of that desperation. When she offered to feed him his ramen because his right arm in incapacitated and he could hold his chopsticks with his left. When she hugged him and thanked him in front of all the villagers and their peers. This is all context that implies if not outright confirms Sakura is intended to be the love interest of Naruto, and no one that doesn't treat the very possibility of Sakura starting a relationship with Naruto AS THE VERY CRISIS OF THEIR EXISTENCE, would question it. Naruto and Hinata don't have that context, for a twofold reason. 1. Hinata barely pops up in the story as is, and even taking filler episodes in consideration for anime only watchers, she hardly changes her prominence in the story. 2. Her presence is of BARE MINIMUM relevance and importance to Naruto. If she was suppose to be the "love interest", I repeat, she would have done at least some of those intimate scenes with Naruto instead of Sakura. but she doesn't. Not to mentions the very reason Naruto married Hinata should, in fact insult the fans that wanted them together too, because they needed a post story movie to make it happen. A MOVIE, might I add, that outright confirms that any "context" of Hinata being Naruto's love interest is either irrelevant or "non-existent" because they had to make new B#!! S%@& up in that very movie. 
 
And before they can say "Ooooooh, Naruto is not a romance manga", I have to ask " DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW THE CONTEXT FOR NOT A ROMANCE MANGA? We've all seen it. Dragonball, Bleach , One Piece, Kimetsu no Yaiba, Fist of the North Star, Saint Seiya, Hunter X Hunter etc. etc. DO NOT TELL ME  that Naruto is not a romance manga when those romance undertone moments between him and Sakura show up, because if not a romance was not the intention those moments shouldn't have existed at all.
 
End of mini rant.  

Apparently now that the sisterly love argument has been debunked to the grave. All of those moments are now mother and son moments now. Lol, can the denial be any greater? She apparently loves him like a mother now. Those moments are clearly romantic, but of course they can't accept that.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 05 January 2021 - 10:25 PM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Question for Luckychi7. What do I have to do to join One of your podcast?

[LuckyChi7]

Question for Luckychi7. What do I have to do to join One of your podcast?

 

 

Not a whole lot. Just something that can record your voice.. it can be as simple as using an iphone headphones (or airpods in this case).  

 

 

That and there's a site called streamyard to gather everyone that'll be apart of the podcast taking place, and I invite them that way. 

 

 

Again like I mentioned it's relatively simple.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Not a whole lot. Just something that can record your voice.. it can be as simple as using an iphone headphones (or airpods in this case).  
 
 
That and there's a site called streamyard to gather everyone that'll be apart of the podcast taking place, and I invite them that way. 
 
 
Again like I mentioned it's relatively simple.

Thanks. Do I need to use a laptop or can I use phone?

[LuckyChi7]

A laptop would be better, but a phone could work too.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

A laptop would be better, but a phone could work too.

okay. Just PM me whenever you want to do a NaruSaku podcast. Maybe someday we can start a Kingdom Hearts podcast.

[Kagomaru]

Apparently now that the sisterly love argument has been debunked to the grave. All of those moments are now mother and son moments now. Lol, can the denial be any greater? She apparently loves him like a mother now. Those moments are clearly romantic, but of course they can't accept that.

For real? I swear the arguments from their side become more asinine and desperate the longer that Boruto goes on.  And by god, if this new "interpretation" of NaruSaku gains steam among their faction, they're going to be laughed out of what's left of the fanbase (and probably mocked by other anime fandoms) because of how FREAKIN' easy that claim can be applied to NaruHina itself.  After all, we've seen first-hand how Hinata treats Naruto as if he's an inept child that needs to be coddled and excused for his neglectful behavior as a parent and husband because of his past or how she shows little faith in his ability as a shinobi and feels he needs to be protected in spite of his accomplishments since his days as a genin. Whereas Sakura always maintains a powerful belief in Naruto in all instances, does not baby and fret over him when he gets so much as a papercut.

 

Alright I'm gonna reiterate another Argument I've beaten to death now, But I want to grant some more perspective on it, even though we al know the general gist of it.

 

Naruto and Hinata's relationship doesn't have any foundation built in the story and therefore their romance has no CONTEXT. What are the circumstances between Naruto and Sakura that makes them a believable couple and why non-pairing fans even question why aren't they together? Sakura crying when she hears Naruto could die if he loses his tailed beast or when Kabuto told her Naruto's resolve to take Sasuke back from Orochimaru has him willing to lose himself to his mindless tailed beast state is the result of that desperation. When she offered to feed him his ramen because his right arm in incapacitated and he could hold his chopsticks with his left. When she hugged him and thanked him in front of all the villagers and their peers. This is all context that heavily implies if not outright confirms Sakura is intended to be the love interest of Naruto, and no one that doesn't treat the very possibility of Sakura starting a relationship with Naruto AS THE VERY CRISIS OF THEIR EXISTENCE, would question it. Naruto and Hinata don't have that context, for a twofold reason. 1. Hinata barely pops up in the story as is, and even taking filler episodes in consideration for anime only watchers, she hardly changes her prominence in the story. 2. Her presence is of BARE MINIMUM relevance and importance to Naruto. If she was suppose to be the "love interest", I repeat, she would have done at least some of those intimate scenes with Naruto instead of Sakura. but she doesn't. Not to mention, the very reason Naruto married Hinata should, in fact insult the fans that wanted them together too, because they needed a post story movie to make it happen. A MOVIE that might I add, outright confirms that any "context" of Hinata being Naruto's love interest in the actual manga/anime is either irrelevant or "non-existent" because they had to make new B#!! S%@& up in that very movie. 

 

And before they can say "Ooooooh, Naruto is not a romance manga", I have to ask " DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW THE CONTEXT FOR NOT A ROMANCE MANGA? We've all seen it. Dragonball, Bleach , One Piece, Kimetsu no Yaiba, Fist of the North Star, Saint Seiya, Hunter X Hunter etc. etc. DO NOT TELL ME  that Naruto is not a romance manga when those romantic undertone moments between him and Sakura show up, because if "not a romance manga" was the intention, those moments shouldn't have existed at all.

 

End of mini rant.  

A-men.

Edited by Kagomaru, 07 January 2021 - 02:14 AM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Another thing. So, Sakura-Chan would be a terrible woman to take Naruto away from Hinata, who never truly loves Naruto in the first place, but she wouldnt be a terrible woman for taking Sasuke from Karin? Who actually loves Sasuke genuinely? 🤔

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Another thing. So, Sakura-Chan would be a terrible woman to take Naruto away from Hinata, who never truly loves Naruto in the first place, but she wouldnt be a terrible woman for taking Sasuke from Karin? Who actually loves Sasuke genuinely? 🤔

Stupid logic because he was written into a corner and likely forced to say that. Stupid as hell is also what it is...

[ree]

I'm interested in know where you read those things. I want to hurt myself 😝

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I'm interested in know where you read those things. I want to hurt myself 😝

Well you got more guts than most of us to do that to yourself, Ree!

[Chatte]

I'm interested in know where you read those things. I want to hurt myself

They're on my Tumblr pages, I have an old archive of interviews but yeah, Kishi said those things.

 

Problem is I have over 5000 Tumblr pages and with me becoming more active nowadays, it's even harder to search through everything...

 

But he said that, he also said something like Sakura is addicted to Sasuke and so many other weird things...

[BlueStarSaber]

For Naruto franchise, manga sales accounts for ~80% of the franchise estimated gross revenue (https://en.m.wikiped...edia_franchises).

Naruto franchise estimated revenue breakdown (a behemoth $10 billion franchise):
Manga magazine $6.53 billion
Manga volumes $1.637 billion
Licensed merchandise $1.27 billion
Video games $761 million
Home entertainment $254 million
Anime box office $147.1 million

Every franchise have their own money-generating channel, each channel has its own independent supply chain. For Naruto franchise, that engine has always been predominantly manga. It's no doubt, Naruto was one of the largest franchise SWJ has ever produced --before 2015.

As you can see from the breakdown, anime channels combined (home entertainment and box office movies) contributed to less than 5%.

It is known that anime doesn't generate that much revenue, but it is required for brand awareness.

Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise is worth $20 billion, twice of Naruto's worth. Yet its anime revenue has always below Naruto franchise according to TV Tokyo annual report. Its main revenue stream comes from merchandise. So, for this franchise, it's okay to perform mediocre on anime channel --good enough to advertise for its merchandise to be sold.

Naruto franchise has always been generating revenue through its manga sales. Which explains why before Boruto era, we got one movie per year for this franchise. They have enough to spend to make movies. It's very odd that the franchise didn't produce any movie after 2015, where the market was climbing up. In 2019, anime market value worth twice compared to 2009. One reason might be the producer don't have enough confidence that investing in a movie will yield a good enough return on manga sales.

 

in regards to the boruto Movie didn't it make 30 million? Most of which I'm sure was due to it be advertise as a naruto and sasuke movie with naruto's son as the lead, but I'm curious on how they ended up with a movie doing well like that then the series revenue's just dropped so fast afterwards. Was it that fans in Japan felt after seeing naruto and sasuke teaming up one last time they is no more point in continuing to support kishimoto or naruto given the way it ended or they saw just how bad the boruto manga was? 

 

They're on my Tumblr pages, I have an old archive of interviews but yeah, Kishi said those things.

 

Problem is I have over 5000 Tumblr pages and with me becoming more active nowadays, it's even harder to search through everything...

 

But he said that, he also said something like Sakura is addicted to Sasuke and so many other weird things...

 

I still don't know how SS fans can say the relationship is healthy after that interview 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I still don't know how SS fans can say the relationship is healthy after that interview 

 

Same here, Blue. I bet it's just their fetish to imagine themselves in Sakura's shoes, like many NH fans are like that with imagining themselves in Naruto's shoes. XP

[Phantom_999]

does the aftermath of SS and NH being confirmed LOOK HEALTHY? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That's all I'm saying

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

does the aftermath of SS and NH being confirmed LOOK HEALTHY? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That's all I'm saying

Not to me really

[Illnevergiveup3]

SS is based off lies and NH is based off a manipulation, guilt, and lies as well.

 

On one hand, we have Sakura-Chan who doesn't know that her heart actually belongs to Naruto, while Sasuke OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to be with her.

 

Then on the next hand, we have Naruto who is actively lying to himself and being with a woman he doesn't even want in Hinata instead of being with the woman of his dreams in Sakura-Chan, while Hinata is just selectively blind to seeing that Naruto doesn't want to be with her either, all because he's "Naruto-Kun."

 

Then poor Karin who is out of the loop is getting screwed over all because they want to force SS with two people(Sakura-Chan and Sasuke) who don't even truly want to be with each other.