79 replies to this topic

[Shadow Wolf]

Hi everyone! This is Shadow Wolf here and I want to request to all of you to engage in a peaceful discussion regarding the events that have been disrupting the peace here in Heaven and Earth. I would like a few things before starting to speak about what's going on. I want to make an open call to the mods and admins to both monitor this thread and pay close attention to the topics that are going to be addressed in this thread. We already have a thread the addresses the recent events, but I feel like this post would have less meaning if I drop it as a reply in that thread. I prefer to create a new thread because this helps me deliver the conviction that what I want to discuss is actually very serious. So please, I would like to request your help. If the thread needs to be moved, then feel free to do so and also, feel free to guide me into making a healthy thread that can bring a solution to what's been going on.

Second, I want to make an open call to all members of this forum. I know and I'm sure that you also have issues which are concerning you (I both sent PMs to members and I made an open request for anyone to address me regarding anything you want me to discuss in this thread, so feel free to speak your mind). Of course, when it comes to this thread, I want everyone to be respectful and address the issues without resorting to anything that can break the rules of the forum (so no cursing, bashing, or anything of the like). Also, keep in mind that our community is a bit on edge lately, so as you write your words, double check your words. One thing I noticed on the forum is that, when people are on edge, they can be easily offended by words even if that was not your intention. I do not want that happening here.

Finally, I have seen how threads like these can either easily go off-topic, ignored or turn into a bashing fest. Do your best to prevent this from happening. I trust all of you and I'm sure that we can do this.

With that said I want to discuss the reason as to why I'm starting this thread.

There have been numerous times of some discussions leading up to disagreements between members. Now, it is normal for people to agree or disagree with different points of view. That's actually what makes a debate.. a debate. However, many of these discussions have been ending up in members generalizing opinions, one party accusing the other of being too extreme in their point of view, and even bashing and flaming between members. This has created a division between members of the community and have even led some people to feel discouraged from posting at all in the forums (myself included). I can easily mention at least a 10-12 members who have been discouraged from posting here in the forums.

"But Shadow Wolf, this community has about... (almost 400 pages x 20 members per page = 8000) 8000 members, so 12 members is not even a considerable amount of members. Members come and go and the discussions are still going..."

True, but we also have to keep in mind that these members are actually people who have been here for a long time and who have also contributed to the forums. No, I'm not making them more important than others. On the contrary, every member is equally valuable in the forums and thus, we have to worry when some of them begin to disappear.

I can't recall the exact origin of this series of events (which have led to warnings, concerns from some of the mods, and even the ban of some members). Some people say that this began since chapter 615... others say that this is an issue that's constantly happening, but that now it has gotten serious... the point is that this is happening and cannot be overlooked.

Let me show you the evidence of the friction in the forum. This is happening in many threads, but I'm going to use the very chapter thread as reference (I'm going to erase the names for the sake of preventing misunderstanding. What I want is to bring up to light the fears and frictions of the members):

i just realized something a nh fan might come on the site again and say the ns moment meant nothing

Now, why do I first point this out? Because this shows three things:

1-Some members are afraid of people who support NH to visit the forums. If I can give a reason is because they have felt that the NH fans who have signed up for the forums have been subtly provoking the NS fans. I don't think all the NH fans are like this, and in my opinion, the NH fans who provoke others are just a bad example of people from the NH community. However, this is only me. So I have to ask you guys: do you feel the same way towards the NH community?

2-Believe it or not, this actually discourages NH fans from visiting the forums. We want to welcome everyone to the forums, and post like these might actually discourage people from visiting, because they might fear getting picked up by the people here.

3-This can even create friction between fellow member of the forums. The following is an example:

All because I chose to stand up for Crimson, whom was being bullied for supporting NaruHina instead of NaruSaku by people like...

So when a fellow member of the forum tries to make an NH fan feel at ease, he gets picked up by other members. Again, this is not a generalization, but rather an example of some events which have occurred.

So we have our first issue there. Now, if there was only one issue, then things could be solved out smoothly. But that's not the case. There are several issues going on lately. Let's take a look at another one:

...do you expect NS moments? After all those NH moments? Sorry guys...

This issue is a bit sensitive, so bear with me as I speak this one. Even though it has been OK to agree and disagree with particular points regarding the chapters, comments like this one are easily taken as a discouraging post. It has a stronger impact when we refer to this chapter because after a long time, Kishimoto has finally shown Sakura in a chapter. This clearly lifts the hopes of the Heaven and Earth community. And comments like these make people who are happy with seeing Sakura feel offended and hurt. This is a NaruSaku community, and even though every member is welcome (be an NS fan or not), we have to keep in mind that the majority of this community are NS fans. Comments like these can be taken offensively and this can be the seed the produces friction between the members. Why do I say this? Let's see how a fellow member replied to this particular post:

No offence but you kinda went really overboard...

So my question is: Has anyone feel offended by comments like these? Have you felt like some comments are subtle hints of bashing towards the general NS community? Again, I need you to express your concerns on this thread because your words will be the indicator of this issue being serious.

This topic is related to the previous one, its the example of how a seed can grow into a tree:

Sorry to say this but its getting freakin annoying. PLS STOP whinning after every chapter. It doesnt matter if its good or bad you guys cry eitherway.

Normally, this would just be a normal complain from a fellow member... but as the thread progresses, you will notice that this message is repeated over and over again...

be quiet and enjoy this chapter.

You know what i see? I see people whinning and complaining that sakura gets no screentime.
Sakura gets screentime: I see people whinning and complaining.

Can you guys please not be negative about this wunderful chapter. Thank you.

I see a bit of panicking i.e worrying over the thought of SasuSaku, complaining about her not getting the expected panel time, etc.

I could keep quoting, but I think this makes the point. Basically, it seems that there is always a member or two who simply reduce every chapter to a "waste of time". As far as I've seen, is not always the same members since everyone has a different reaction to each chapter. However, that said, it can be pretty offensive to call a chapter a waste of time, especially when you have a large group of people who actually like the chapter. Now, I have to quote this, since this is actually a good point:

Another thing, you don't have to make people like the chapter. That's not something you should be doing. If people are criticizing, it doesn't mean they are bashing as long their arguments have a valid basis to criticize upon.

Indeed. Everyone has a different opinion. However, there is one particular point with many members seem to overlook (I have also done this myself sometimes). Yes, you are free to express your opinion and your reception of the chapter, but you also have to keep in mind how you use your words so they are not taken as an offense or a whining. As I said at the beginning of this thread, we have to be careful with how we express ourselves, as it can be take the wrong way. And in all honesty, in this last chapter, isn't it logical that people will be clearly offended if you call it a waste of time? Don't you think that it will be easily taken as "whining"? The way we pick our words and our general behavior indicate what kind of person we are. And I have to admit that some members in the community have been perceived as people who only know how to give negative reviews of the chapters and the discussions on this thread. And now I ask to my fellow members: have you also felt this way? if so, what can be done to solve this issue?

This particular post caught my attention and I want to use it as reference for what I'm about to express in the following point. I'm going to quote the person this time because it is actually an admin speaking:

People are able to offer a wide range of opinions these threads. When you decide to enter and read the posts you take the risk that someone will an express an opinion you do not like. If it bothers you so much that it ruins it for you the perhaps you might want to stay clear of the thread until it doesn't bother you or maybe you can availe yourself of the opprotunity not to read their posts.

However, we will not ask them to refrain from expressing their opinion because others do not like it. People should not be required to shut up because you or anyone else cannot deal with what they have to say. If they stay within the forum rules they can post.

and this one:

If anyone throws around more rants or comments about other members in this thread, I will close it.

You are entitled to share your opinion of the chapter, but this is not a venue for you to call other members names. Both sides of this argument have had people agree with them.

For those who say others are being too positive:
Not every chapter has to be an in your face NS moment. I am fully prepared for Naruto to end without NS, but that doesn't stop me from hoping for good things. It might seem delusional, but this is a work of fiction. I am reading it for fun and I will have fun no matter what. Even though Sakura made one comment and said Shannaro, I was happy.

For those who say others are being too negative:
People are human. We get frustrated. A lot of us want NS really badly and are saddened when Sakura doesn't get the focus a lot of us want her to get. Sometimes we prepare for the 'worst' (some pairing that interferes with NS) so that we don't jinx ourselves. We don't know what Kishi is going to write and it could really be ANYTHING.

Agree to disagree. Walk away if you aren't getting anywhere. Almost all of us want NS to happen. Let's not forget that.

These two posts are proof that the admins and mods are actually doing what they can to make the members stick to the rules and do their best to have a proper debate. But again, we have to be very careful of how we express ourselves. Some members have been very subtle with the words while others have been very honest. Either way, they have found a way to insult each other and even getting away with it. We have to keep in mind that the mods and admins are not 24/7 online, so they can't see absolutely everything going on. It is up to us to help them do their job, by promoting a good environment and by messaging them about the issues going on. WIth that said, I also have to mention something to the mods and admins.

Handling this job is a serious responsibility. Thus I understand this and respect it. However, while I was doing the recollection of PMs and gathering information about the events going on, I received a few complains about your guys not doing your job well. Some members have addressed me that they have reached you with a few problems that they've been having and not receiving a reply to their concerns. Others have agreed with me when I say that you can't be 24/7 around the forums and thus, we can't expect you guys to resolve absolutely everything in a matter of minutes. With that said I'm going to post these two questions:

1-Members: do you feel like the mods and admins are doing their job? If yes or no? What supportive comment/constructive criticism/advice do you have for them?

2-Mods and Admins: Do you feel like the members are complaining too much? Do you feel like everything is going well in the forums? Do you feel that the community is also doing what you can to make your jobs not easier, but more "enjoyable" if I can say it like that? And finally, what do you propose to the community so that, not only the forum becomes a pleasant place for everyone, but also to help you do your job?

I encourage both parties to discuss this in this thread.

There are many other topics that are causing friction in Heaven and Earth, but I have to admit that I don't possess all the knowledge to address them all. Hence why I'm making such a persistent request for both members and admins to sit down and discuss these issues. And if they are not addressed seriously and if they are not discussed soon, this will be repeated over and over again:

I'm not even sure I want to continue to post on the chapter thread anymore because there's DEFINITELY a divide here, and that divide stems from the members of this forum. Could the divide be avoided? Heck yeah, it could but it's not. I'm just gonna fall back from these discussions and have them with a couple of people that I can actually throw my opinion at without being criticized because it doesn't match theirs. This is just flat out ridiculous, and I truly think I'm done here.

If you think this issue isn't serious, just look at the consequences:

-A few members being banned from the forums (I'm pretty sure some of you are thinking about James S Cassidy, but I have to point out that other members have also been banned. And when you look at it, a ban is pretty much an indicator of something serious going on).

-Members calling out each other and even insulting other members. Even if its generalized, specific, and some of them having consequences while others not, this has been happening on a more frequent basis than before. Just look at the very chapter thread, where some members have been agreeing with James's post even though he was banned and where a new guy subscribed to point out issues going on around the forum and even calling out a member.

-As I mentioned in the beginning, people being discouraged from posting. This pretty much makes the discussions decrease on their usual activity and eventually, the forum losing activity overall.

-And even going as far as to members questioning the actions of the mods.

In the end, I'm not sure how this thread will unfold and what will we achieve with it. My goals are the following:

-To be able to have a thread where we can properly discuss our concerns. That way, we can keep the other discussions on topic and have a place where we can express our worries.

-To promote the communication between members, admins and even between disagreeing parties.

-To let everyone know that, not only these are serious issues that are currently affecting the whole forum, but that you also have the power to do something about it.

-To encourage everyone to not be afraid to express your concerns as long as you are respectful and follow the rules of the forum.

-And finally, to be able to bring a solution to most -if not all- the problems concerning our community.

I tried my best not to take any sides here. The only side I want to take is that I'm an NS fan of this community who wants to be polite and respectful to everyone and that I want to do something to help my fellow Heaven and Earth. I'm not sure what else to say, so I'll leave the ball in everyone's court. I trust you guys and I hope that a healthy communication between everyone is promoted on this thread. Remember that if you ignore this, the thread becomes meaningless and you are admitting that there is nothing going on on the forums (which I have to say that it would be a lie). These last words may sound a little blunt, but I have to repeat that the power is in your hands. You decide how this thread will unfold and what will the consequences be.

So from me to all of you: let's do our best for Heaven and Earth.

EDIT: Sorry for accidentally leaving the name of a fellow member. I just removed it and I would also like to apologize promptly. This is a very long post and it may contain mistakes, so I'm grateful for people who are helping me fix those.

Edited by Shadow Wolf, 27 April 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

This is a great idea for a topic Shadow Wolf.

Well there certanly is situation here that needs to be resolved. Well I personaly was in the yellow zone before I found this forum. But when I did find it I was pushed into the green zone. I remain in the green zone even today. It`s all because of the inspirational and positive posts on this side. Now things apear to be different. The forum has taken a slightly darker turn. And My concern is for the NS shippers in the yellow zone that have come here to seek haven from the NH/SS shippers on the other forums and youtube that are sometimes slightly extreme. And I fear that when that person comes here he will be pushed into the red zone or even jump ship.

This forum is open for everyone. But it is a NS forum. So shouldn`t we take some measure in helping fellow NS fans instead pushing them further towards the red zone. That is my honest opinion on the matter. Everybody has the right to state their opinion positive or negative but shouldn`t we try to take care of those who need support. The ship took some hits lately but it still stands strong. And it does not help if we put holes into it.

And that is my 2 cents. This is more reasoning why I personaly believe that the forum should try to keep a brighter atmosphere towards NS.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

This is a great idea for a topic Shadow Wolf.

Well there certanly is situation here that needs to be resolved. Well I personaly was in the yellow zone before I found this forum. But when I did find it I was pushed into the green zone. I remain in the green zone even today. It`s all because of the inspirational and positive posts on this side. Now things apear to be different. The forum has taken a slightly darker turn. And My concern is for the NS shippers in the yellow zone that have come here to seek haven from the NH/SS shippers on the other forums and youtube that are sometimes slightly extreme. And I fear that when that person comes here he will be pushed into the red zone or even jump ship.

This forum is open for everyone. But it is a NS forum. So shouldn`t we take some measure in helping fellow NS fans instead pushing them further towards the red zone. That is my honest opinion on the matter. Everybody has the right to state their opinion positive or negative but shouldn`t we try to take care of those who need support. The ship took some hits lately but it still stands strong. And it does not help if we put holes into it.

And that is my 2 cents. This is more reasoning why I personaly believe that the forum should try to keep a brighter atmosphere towards NS.

Almost Striker but the problem is what's the purpose of a NH coming on this forum?
I've seen a lot and basically 100% come here to debate NS x NH but the fact is that the parts will never reach an agreement, then ends up repeating the same claims over and over until someome gives up and then violate the rules bashing, trolling or even having closed threads like people posting NH rants on the website, i find it stupid and childish there are places to debate NH x NS and i dont believe this forum is the correct place for it because leave the impression that the person is campaingning on the forum to tries to prove to other people that NH is better than NS and so on...
I just cnat find a purpose for them to be here other than Fun cafe or Chapter debate.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Almost Striker but the problem is what's the purpose of a NH coming on this forum?
I've seen a lot and basically 100% come here to debate NS x NH but the fact is that the parts will never reach an agreement, then ends up repeating the same claims over and over until someome gives up and then violate the rules bashing, trolling or even having closed threads like people posting NH rants on the website, i find it stupid and childish there are places to debate NH x NS and i dont believe this forum is the correct place for it because leave the impression that the person is campaingning on the forum to tries to prove to other people that NH is better than NS and so on...
I just cnat find a purpose for them to be here other than Fun cafe or Chapter debate.

Because, other than Naruto, we talk about a variety of subjects that are universal. We have topics about movies, books, other manga, music, etc. Sure, an NH fan can come here with the intent of debating, DEBATING, not trolling, NS fans, but they can think, "Hey! There's a lot of people who also like Fairy Tail!" or, "Hey, look I found fellow Xbox/PS fans I can probably game with!"

Or even, "Hmm, these guys present good arguments, I'd like to debate with people who present good, logical discussions instead of mindless drek spewed out by idiots!"

It's not all black and white, and so what if they never reach an agreement? As long as they remain respectful, they're welcome to this site.

There's these things called "Opinions" and not everyone share the same "opinions."

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 27 April 2013 - 11:07 PM.

[Qia]

Almost Striker but the problem is what's the purpose of a NH coming on this forum?
I've seen a lot and basically 100% come here to debate NS x NH but the fact is that the parts will never reach an agreement, then ends up repeating the same claims over and over until someone gives up and then violate the rules bashing, trolling or even having closed threads like people posting NH rants on the website, i find it stupid and childish there are places to debate NH x NS and i dont believe this forum is the correct place for it because leave the impression that the person is campaigning on the forum to tries to prove to other people that NH is better than NS and so on...
I just can't find a purpose for them to be here other than Fun cafe or Chapter debate.

You kind of contradict yourself, because you said at first that you couldn't find a purpose for other sides of the fandom being here. But I'm going to respond anyway, because this was one of my personal issues with what's been happening lately. This forum is supposed to be open to anyone and that's why we have a debate thread and that's why it's kind of harsh for you to say they shouldn't be here, because you do get those few ones that remain respectful and do have good points of view (even if, at the end of the day, nobody decides to support something different), and it's not fair to put them all in one boat. Besides, you have people on the NS side of things that bash, in general, the other sides of the fandom (like SS and NH). "NH fans are like this" or "SS fans or like this" or "Why is a SK fan here? Maybe it would be better if you went to another completely different site because the general public does not agree with what you're saying." And most of the time it seems as if nothing's done about it, even though it's against the rules. (I could be wrong...but it's what I've seen).

edit: ninja'd xD. But I'm leaving this here.

Edited by Qia, 27 April 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[candycane-chan]

That's the exact same reason why I stopped posting here. Or reading the comments of the chapters. I just get the chapter links and keep up to date with road to ninja because honestly; as long as I'm hearing( reading) all those complains I'll never be satisfied, it becomes much less enjoyable when the same fans here jump in, drop there few cents about how NS is hopeless.

And the fact that "NS is always trolled" like

studio: "gives NS fanservice"
NS fans: but they gave hinata one episode
studio: "makes sakura say she used to love sasuke"
NS fans: one filler. they're gonna troll us. just wait
studio: "give sakura screentime"
Ns fans: well they're hinata fanboys

kishi:"enter karin"
fans: here are the reasons why karin is such an awesome character..
sasuke stabs karin
fans: just wait karin will give him the silent treatment and he'll be asking forgiveness
sasuke apologizes
fans: wtf that was ssoooo rushed and karin was out of character

also. whenever there is one of those so called "NH moments@ everyone goes like
"kishi is being forced by his editors"
"what the blazes is up with kishimoto"
"now i don't get me wrong I KNOW NS will happen..but with kishi's writing I'm not sure"
"can the editors affect kishi's decision?"
"he's just giving fanservice psh"
"i believe NS will happen but now I think it'll be in bad quality"
"compared to NH, NS sounds so dull now"
"I Am tempted to jump ship"
"guys you need to face reality..I'm starting to lose the respect I had for you"

In Every.single.thread
negativity negativity negativity
complaining complaining complaining

I was going to make a thread for this but I'm glad you did it yourself.
This place just isn't as half as fun as it used to be.

[TouKen4Life3g]

That's the exact same reason why I stopped posting here. Or reading the comments of the chapters. I just get the chapter links and keep up to date with road to ninja because honestly; as long as I'm hearing( reading) all those complains I'll never be satisfied, it becomes much less enjoyable when the same fans here jump in, drop there few cents about how NS is hopeless.

And the fact that "NS is always trolled" like

studio: "gives NS fanservice"
NS fans: but they gave hinata one episode
studio: "makes sakura say she used to love sasuke"
NS fans: one filler. they're gonna troll us. just wait
studio: "give sakura screentime"
Ns fans: well they're hinata fanboys

kishi:"enter karin"
fans: here are the reasons why karin is such an awesome character..
sasuke stabs karin
fans: just wait karin will give him the silent treatment and he'll be asking forgiveness
sasuke apologizes
fans: wtf that was ssoooo rushed and karin was out of character

also. whenever there is one of those so called "NH moments@ everyone goes like
"kishi is being forced by his editors"
"what the blazes is up with kishimoto"
"now i don't get me wrong I KNOW NS will happen..but with kishi's writing I'm not sure"
"can the editors affect kishi's decision?"
"he's just giving fanservice psh"
"i believe NS will happen but now I think it'll be in bad quality"
"compared to NH, NS sounds so dull now"
"I Am tempted to jump ship"
"guys you need to face reality..I'm starting to lose the respect I had for you"

In Every.single.thread
negativity negativity negativity
complaining complaining complaining

I was going to make a thread for this but I'm glad you did it yourself.
This place just isn't as half as fun as it used to be.

You actually going to make me shed a tear. I was wondering whatever happen to many, but this OTP brings a point.

[sushi.]

I think threads like "Will NS happen?" will reinforce this negativity.

"now i don't get me wrong I KNOW NS will happen..but with kishi's writing I'm not sure"

"i believe NS will happen but now I think it'll be in bad quality"

Because I recently participated and said something along these lines. ^ I thought of it as answering a question, but also asked myself how that thread contributed something to our community. Then again, as long as I have manga back up for my negativity, why is it not alright? To me it's not about being positive or negative anymore, it's about reviewing and discussing Naruto. I really want to be honest in my posts, and I don't want to paint a negative post with a pretty tone. I can not say that I am confident in Kishimoto's writing without lying. Being negative, lying or maybe avoid to make posts..I choose the first and back it up with reasons to avoid bashing. I don't mean to bring anyone down and I don't mind if you disagree.

Also, the only backside of NH/SS fans being here is that I think they'll be overpowered by the majority. If they make a post on why their pairing will happen(Which I'm alright with), then all the rest of us will want to debate with the person. It might get tiring for them, but I agree with Shadow Uzumaki and Qia that they're welcome to stay. We should not divide people by pairing of choice, but by people who break the rules and people who do not. It's very simple for me.

I also want the mods to stick to PM unless 1. They are speaking to several members in a thread or 2. The thread is about to get closed. One of the mods started a discussion in a thread, she probably didn't expect any responses, but many people disagreed with her(including me). Just to avoid the off-topicness she didn't want, and to not call out someone in public.

Btw. R.I.P James, I really liked his posts and podcasts. : (

Edited by sushi., 27 April 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You kind of contradict yourself, because you said at first that you couldn't find a purpose for other sides of the fandom being here. But I'm going to respond anyway, because this was one of my personal issues with what's been happening lately. This forum is supposed to be open to anyone and that's why we have a debate thread and that's why it's kind of harsh for you to say they shouldn't be here, because you do get those few ones that remain respectful and do have good points of view (even if, at the end of the day, nobody decides to support something different), and it's not fair to put them all in one boat. Besides, you have people on the NS side of things that bash, in general, the other sides of the fandom (like SS and NH). "NH fans are like this" or "SS fans or like this" or "Why is a SK fan here? Maybe it would be better if you went to another completely different site because the general public does not agree with what you're saying." And most of the time it seems as if nothing's done about it, even though it's against the rules. (I could be wrong...but it's what I've seen).

edit: ninja'd xD. But I'm leaving this here.

No i didnt contradicited myself(i said specifically NH and SS i did not make a generalization), i just doesnt believe it's the correct place because pairings are a matter of personal taste, "debating for what" i'll not see someome here "i yeld NH is better than NS" or "NS is better than NH", we didnt had any real debates about NH x NS it's always the same kitten.

@shadow uzumaki.
Show me a single NH fan who came here because to talk about movies, all of them starts with the same "i'm concerned with your views about Hinata", "i dont like your views about Hinata", " i dont like why you guys think about NS > NH", "I didnt like how you guys suddenly said that NS was canon because of RTN" the same excuse all the time.
and always join when there's something regarding NH on the manga, the problem is not just us but also them who doesnt respect our pairing choice.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 April 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[Greed-Sama]

No i didnt contradicited myself, i just doesnt believe it's the correct place because pairings are a matter of personal taste, "debating for what" i'll not see someome here "i yeld NH is better than NS" or "NS is better than NH", we didnt had any real debates about NH x NS it's always the same kitten.

Because debating on the site with only NS fans does nothing but support elitism.

[Type of people] should only talk about [country] because they are from said country.

[People of this religion] should only talk about [this religions] because they believe in said religion.

That's stupid. It's like inbreeding. You keep the same ideas and same viewpoints circulating, eventually you get people who only talk like mindless drones and vomit what the last person said.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Because debating on the site with only NS fans does nothing but support elitism.

[Type of people] should only talk about [country] because they are from said country.

[People of this religion] should only talk about [this religions] because they believe in said religion.

That's stupid. It's like inbreeding. You keep the same ideas and same viewpoints circulating, eventually you get people who only talk like mindless drones and vomit what the last person said.

You got the wrong idea, i didnt said that they arent allowed i'm just saying that is also their fault 100% of their first posts is regarded with NH, posting rants and etc... It's cool to debate with them about chapters but this is what i dont see, i dont see them debating about chapters, there is not a single post form an NH fan on 628 thread, just show me, this pointing out fingers is annoying.

And just to finish all of the posts end up with fallacy, i'm not saying this because of what i think but based on things that happened here.

Nope, it's not i've tried to debate with them actually on this website and it tires up when you read an entire post with fallacies and/or double standards, i respect their pairing choice but more and more i see it as a personal taste, also despite everyone being from the same fandom most of the users have different viewpoints about a lot of chapters it's not like mindless drones i'm not the type who commit fallacies.

Also just to finish up on part 1 we didnt had all this pairing wars because at that time people liked more the manga/story than the pairing itself and since the sotry lose it's quality people started to like the pairings more than the manga itself.
Proof of this is that even here and on basically all Naruto websites people would drop if Naruto end up with someome, if Naruto ends with Sakura, a lot of NH/SS will drop certainly if Naruto ends up with Hinata a lot of NS fans will drop

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 April 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[Greed-Sama]

And just to finish all of the posts end up with fallacy, i'm not saying this because of what i think but based on things that happened here.

You use this word a lot, and I really don't think you understand what a fallacy is at all. The fact that you dismiss an argument based on fallacy is fallacious in of itself. So please stop using it.

Edited by Greed-Sama, 28 April 2013 - 12:14 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You use this word a lot, and I really don't think you understand what a fallacy is at all. The fact that you dismiss an argument based on fallacy is fallacious in of itself. So please stop using it.

I dont just the word itself just to show that i understand i ofter also points out where it is, i dont say "fallacious and then leave" but i point up like i did many times before.
James did that recently, when a NH fan hated Sakura for doing basically the same stuff that Hinata did, while with Hinata he labelled her as a courageous and brave with Sakura he labelled her as well you know of.
This is the stuff that i most see and what disillusioned me about pairings in general if you would ask me one of the reasons why Naruto's manga is losing it's quality i would certainly put Pairings fanservice on one of the main reasons.
Those pairing fanservices ruined Sakura's and Hinata's characters a lot thoughout on the series while Kishimoto doenst make her move on from Sasuke( or have development as a Ninja) because of shipping reasons and also Hinata who doesnt get a prope development like becoming a leader of her clan because of shipping reasons, people are more concerned if she will end up with Naruto than her development as a character.

Nowadays Pairings > Naruto itself.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 April 2013 - 12:23 AM.

[JoHamSandwich]

1-Members: do you feel like the mods and admins are doing their job? If yes or no? What supportive comment/constructive criticism/advice do you have for them?

The mods are doing a great job. This current team of mods are the most active out of all ones we've had here.

-A few members being banned from the forums.And when you look at it, a ban is pretty much an indicator of something serious going on).

For someone to get banned here, it should be a crowning achievement. You have to be a complete douche and repeatedly go against the rules even after being moderated several times to get banned. Even after that, it's most likely a temp-ban the first time around.

-To let everyone know that, not only these are serious issues that are currently affecting the whole forum, but that you also have the power to do something about it.

I wouldn't say it's affecting the WHOLE forum, just the Naruto Section (Icha Icha NaruSaku to be more precise). General and Fanart/Fanfic sections don't usually get moderated (unless it's a spam thread or something serious like this one).

This place was a LOT friendlier back when I first joined. The fact that I (20 back then)was able to get along with Ani and Saku-chan when they were 9 years old (15-16 lulz). Now Ani and Saku have children (no they don't), I'm an old fart, and we're still chit-chatting to this day. I find it hard to believe that some of younger members interact with the older members.

It's just maturity. There are just too many immature members who like to post their opinions in such a manner that they sound condescending, and then get all butthurt when they get moderated. If you're already offended by this, then you're the problem.

In the end, don't forget what this website is.

This is the BEST forum/community for any Naruto pairing fandom. Google NaruSaku and this website is the 2nd link in the results. What about SasuSaku/NaruHina? No forum results in the first page. Smiter is paying for the domain name, the servers, and all the behind the scenes stuff (prizes for competitions) needed to keep this website running for the past 7-8 years, and yet you don't see any ads. You know how nice it is to go to a forum that's AD-free? And he isn't even asking for any donations! That's the love that he has for this website.

The old members here built a 'enter as strangers, leave as friends' reputation to show their love for the website AND the fandom.

Don't let Smiter down. Don't let the older members down.

[Tsunade]

The mods are doing a great job. This current team of mods are the most active out of all ones we've had here.



For someone to get banned here, it should be a crowning achievement. You have to be a complete douche and repeatedly go against the rules even after being moderated several times to get banned. Even after that, it's most likely a temp-ban the first time around.



I wouldn't say it's affecting the WHOLE forum, just the Naruto Section (Icha Icha NaruSaku to be more precise). General and Fanart/Fanfic sections don't usually get moderated (unless it's a spam thread or something serious like this one).

This place was a LOT friendlier back when I first joined. The fact that I (20 back then)was able to get along with Ani and Saku-chan when they were 9 years old (15-16 lulz). Now Ani and Saku have children (no they don't), I'm an old fart, and we're still chit-chatting to this day. I find it hard to believe that some of younger members interact with the older members.

It's just maturity. There are just too many immature members who like to post their opinions in such a manner that they sound condescending, and then get all butthurt when they get moderated. If you're already offended by this, then you're the problem.

In the end, don't forget what this website is.

This is the BEST forum/community for any Naruto pairing fandom. Google NaruSaku and this website is the 2nd link in the results. What about SasuSaku/NaruHina? No forum results in the first page. Smiter is paying for the domain name, the servers, and all the behind the scenes stuff (prizes for competitions) needed to keep this website running for the past 7-8 years, and yet you don't see any ads. You know how nice it is to go to a forum that's AD-free? And he isn't even asking for any donations! That's the love that he has for this website.

The old members here built a 'enter as strangers, leave as friends' reputation to show their love for the website AND the fandom.

Don't let Smiter down. Don't let the older members down.

I am Tsunade and I approve of this message.

But seriously, when I first joined there was like what 50 members (Ohhhh... 2004) and we all got a long fine. There was even some guys that liked NH and we just discussed as normal people, and RESPECTED EACH OTHER.

But I realise that this forum has gotten bigger and there are more people out there that want a voice. But the same thing still applies EVERYONE DESERVES RESPECT.

SO RESPECT EACH OTHER GOD DAMN IT.

P.s. Mods/Admins are doing fine I mean if they can put up with me, Yaka and butthead trolling they can up with anything.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

The mods are doing a great job. This current team of mods are the most active out of all ones we've had here.



For someone to get banned here, it should be a crowning achievement. You have to be a complete douche and repeatedly go against the rules even after being moderated several times to get banned. Even after that, it's most likely a temp-ban the first time around.



I wouldn't say it's affecting the WHOLE forum, just the Naruto Section (Icha Icha NaruSaku to be more precise). General and Fanart/Fanfic sections don't usually get moderated (unless it's a spam thread or something serious like this one).

This place was a LOT friendlier back when I first joined. The fact that I (20 back then)was able to get along with Ani and Saku-chan when they were 9 years old (15-16 lulz). Now Ani and Saku have children (no they don't), I'm an old fart, and we're still chit-chatting to this day. I find it hard to believe that some of younger members interact with the older members.

It's just maturity. There are just too many immature members who like to post their opinions in such a manner that they sound condescending, and then get all butthurt when they get moderated. If you're already offended by this, then you're the problem.

In the end, don't forget what this website is.

This is the BEST forum/community for any Naruto pairing fandom. Google NaruSaku and this website is the 2nd link in the results. What about SasuSaku/NaruHina? No forum results in the first page. Smiter is paying for the domain name, the servers, and all the behind the scenes stuff (prizes for competitions) needed to keep this website running for the past 7-8 years, and yet you don't see any ads. You know how nice it is to go to a forum that's AD-free? And he isn't even asking for any donations! That's the love that he has for this website.

The old members here built a 'enter as strangers, leave as friends' reputation to show their love for the website AND the fandom.

Don't let Smiter down. Don't let the older members down.

Oh god, It's JoHamo! And Tsunade!

[MangaReader]

So those saying a good job is being done want the site to be known for it's negativity? I for one know that NH/SS fans stalk this site as I have a friend who ships them who's admitted they've been to the site as visitors... why do you think they're being more dominant then ever everywhere else? When your own site is basically giving up then what's the point in even coming back, yes, opinions are opinions, but when they're overpowering, it's hard to maintain confidence, unless you've been 100% from the start. So yeah, the numbers have been dropping, new members who join almost rarely post at all and so older members are barely ever seen. I'm not saying ban the negative nancys, but some form of limiting the negativity should be put in order. I shouldn't have to respect the ones who refuse to respect the manga they read

[shadow_Uzumaki]

So those saying a good job is being done want the site to be known for it's negativity? I for one know that NH/SS fans stalk this site as I have a friend who ships them who's admitted they've been to the site as visitors... why do you think they're being more dominant then ever everywhere else? When your own site is basically giving up then what's the point in even coming back, yes, opinions are opinions, but when they're overpowering, it's hard to maintain confidence, unless you've been 100% from the start. So yeah, the numbers have been dropping, new members who join almost rarely post at all and so older members are barely ever seen. I'm not saying ban the negative nancys, but some form of limiting the negativity should be put in order. I shouldn't have to respect the ones who refuse to respect the manga they read

It's more like, the new members who DO post at all tend to be the most vocal in their intense disgust for the quality of the manga (be it character, plot, writing quality, etc.).

Of course, it's probably just me being one of those grumpy old members not liking the new whippersnappers or something.

(I'm 20 btw)

[CloudMountainJuror]

... *deep breath, then an exhale*

Alright. I've been thinking that as long as I can justify what I say and keep it respectful, everything will be fine. After reading your post and the points you made, I don't know if it will. Yeah, I've been critcizing/complaining about the manga. A lot of what I say has been repeated. I thought that, because the repetition of certain topics and points was rampant in other areas of the site (for example, the debate thread has a lot of repetition), that it was acceptable to do the same for critcism of the manga/author. I seem to have been wrong. Not to mention that criticism is so similar to complaining that it's hard to distinguish. Someone that states a position and backs that up with reasons when requested can still easily be labeled as "complaining" or "whining" because ultimately, justified with points or not, they are complaining about the manga.

I feel like it'd just be easier for anyone with a negative view of a chapter or the manga to keep quiet at this point, regardless of if they have something of quality to contribute to discussion or not. Do I like that idea? Most definitely not, especially considering I'm one of the people who has a negative view of recent events. I don't want to stay quiet. I want to keep posting. But it's so difficult now to tell what's permittable to post when you're critcizing the manga. Heck, my recent posts could be considered acceptable and I just wouldn't know. The line is such a blur. The policy of "express your opinions respectfully, and you'll be fine" isn't suitable anymore because people with any negative views on the manga are now considered to be disrupting the friendly environment by "complaining" or "whining", no matter how respectful they may be. It's naturally more difficult for people with negative views that want to keep the peace to post with a feeling of security than those with positive views that want to keep the peace.

I respect the time and effort you put into this post, Shadow. It's a wonderful thread. But I'm afraid that after reading it, I'm more confused than I was beforehand, and this confusion doesn't seem like it'll be able to be dismissed. Not with any ease, at least.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 28 April 2013 - 04:17 AM.

[Cloud]

The mods are doing a great job. This current team of mods are the most active out of all ones we've had here.



For someone to get banned here, it should be a crowning achievement. You have to be a complete douche and repeatedly go against the rules even after being moderated several times to get banned. Even after that, it's most likely a temp-ban the first time around.



I wouldn't say it's affecting the WHOLE forum, just the Naruto Section (Icha Icha NaruSaku to be more precise). General and Fanart/Fanfic sections don't usually get moderated (unless it's a spam thread or something serious like this one).

This place was a LOT friendlier back when I first joined. The fact that I (20 back then)was able to get along with Ani and Saku-chan when they were 9 years old (15-16 lulz). Now Ani and Saku have children (no they don't), I'm an old fart, and we're still chit-chatting to this day. I find it hard to believe that some of younger members interact with the older members.

It's just maturity. There are just too many immature members who like to post their opinions in such a manner that they sound condescending, and then get all butthurt when they get moderated. If you're already offended by this, then you're the problem.

In the end, don't forget what this website is.

This is the BEST forum/community for any Naruto pairing fandom. Google NaruSaku and this website is the 2nd link in the results. What about SasuSaku/NaruHina? No forum results in the first page. Smiter is paying for the domain name, the servers, and all the behind the scenes stuff (prizes for competitions) needed to keep this website running for the past 7-8 years, and yet you don't see any ads. You know how nice it is to go to a forum that's AD-free? And he isn't even asking for any donations! That's the love that he has for this website.

The old members here built a 'enter as strangers, leave as friends' reputation to show their love for the website AND the fandom.

Don't let Smiter down. Don't let the older members down.

I second this message. The current mods are doing great in monitoring this site.

I'm part of the old group as well, but not as old as Tsu or JoHam, but I've seen a lot of stuff go down in this forum (me being part of a lot of it as well. )

For the new members (even though I don't post that often), try and and take it easy with finger-pointing and name calling. Not fun being moderated (trust me, I've been there). Act mature, post maturely. If you ain't got nothing nice to say, keep it in your head. Just remember, Smiter doesn't have to keep this forum open, he can close it anytime and use the money elsewhere. So don't let him and the others down, because he can use his time and money on other ventures.

I mostly lurk now, but I'm active in a few threads (gaming being one, as I have a game thread pinned) but there are a few times where I walked out of a thread because of the absolute chaos. I REALLY don't want to see that happen among fans. Everyone can be friends here, no?

Just my 2 cents.