190 replies to this topic

[Narufan85]

Alexander.I think that is the backlash of the really (overly) aggressive feminism in the past few years.

 

Yeah. God forbid feminists stand up for what they believe in!

 

 

I don't know about that. I mean, how is it that over 70% of adult men in america are not married? Half of the complaints is because of the utterly one sided way the law deals with divorce were the men lose everything and the woman gains everything. While the other half is made up of complaints of women behaviour, with them being too confrontational, aggressive and emetionaly unstable.

 

We may complain about how Hinata is portrayed, but the truth is that western men treat her type as the desirable one in these days. Agreeable, accepting and doesn't complain about anything. Strong and independent woman scare off men, while the more feminine and meek types get more attention. And I can't deny that I see were they are coming from. I mean, I consider myself a MGTOW. After analyzing our current society, and deciding I have no interest in the relationship types it presents me.

There's a lot of MRA nonsense in this post. I can't decide what's more amusing, your rant about divorce courts or the fact that you brag about being a MGTOW. As for western men being scared off by strong independent women: I haven't found this to be the case at all. I also think it's very problematic that you see strong and independent women as unfeminine. 

Edited by Narufan85, 30 January 2016 - 05:38 PM.

[alexander]

 

Yeah. God forbid feminists stand up for what they believe in!

 

There's a lot of MRA nonsense in this post. I can't decide what's more amusing, your rant about divorce courts or the fact that you brag about being a MGTOW. As for western men being scared off by strong independent women: I haven't found this to be the case at all. I also think it's very problematic that you see strong and independent women as unfeminine. 

 

Yeah, cause woman are aways right about everything. And I don't brag, I simply am. God forbid, there are men who don't submit and agree with everything woman say. And I will hold whatever opinions I damn please. If I don't like a certain type of woman, that is my business. Take your first world problems somewere else.

Edited by alexander, 30 January 2016 - 08:56 PM.

[Narufan85]

 

Yeah, cause woman are aways right about everything. And I don't brag, I simply am. God forbid, there are men who don't submit and agree with everything woman say. And I will hold whatever opinions I damn please. If I don't like a certain type of woman, that is my business. Take your first world problems somewere else.

 

You are welcome to like whatever sort of woman you want. Just like I'm entitled to think people who subscribe to the MRA ideology are misogynistic jerks with a distorted view of reality. 

[alexander]

 

You are welcome to like whatever sort of woman you want. Just like I'm entitled to think people who subscribe to the MRA ideology are misogynistic jerks with a distorted view of reality. 

 

Just that I'm not an MRA, in fact I don't like them at all. I find them as petty and childish as the feminazis. You're the one labeling me in order to fuel your hate filled arguments. I am not misogynistic. I simply believe a woman should not use her independance as an excuse to masquerade hateful and toxic behaviour. Wich happens more and more as of late. I am perfectly willing to respect a woman as a equal so long as she is willing to do the same.

Edited by alexander, 30 January 2016 - 11:43 PM.

[rocci]

Not all woman is strong and independent.
The same thing happen with man.
Forcing them to be one is as bad as discriminate someone to be strong and independent.

Give them knowledge and opportunity to make a choice. Isn't that what they fighting for?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Pretty much. Some got carried away, but yeah. It feels odd in a way because the way media address it makes it too unreal. Men, women, we're all people. It's like saying something is racist but it's you that's making into one when bringing up.

[db84x]

@ Rocci

Actually they are time when NS pick first spot followed by SS while NH just distant.  But when debate start take over art as main spot, some fanatic insert they own view (feminism, equality, western liberal value and etc) into fray.  NH and SS became represent conservative value while NS liberal value, thats when war became complicated.

 

Honestly without fanatic help, NH and SS won't soo easy got new convert.

Edited by db84x, 31 January 2016 - 03:04 AM.

[Namaenash]

So I just read an article about the popularity of 'Baifumei' as a look in China. Baifumei is basically pale, rich and beautiful, with girls looks focusing on pale skin, large eyes, rosebud lips and an oval face. Also described in the look are really thin bodies (with the exception, of course, of big boobs). 

 

So all of this reminded me forcefully of Hinata. Especially the makeover she got in "The Last," from an overly curvy, normal-sized girl in the manga to the waifish child-like girl in the movie. And in the manga epilogue, she noticeably stayed young and girlishly modest while everyone else got older and/or more overtly womanly.

 

I've also read recently about the cultural pressure in Japan toward more feminine, modest girls who only aspire to be future wives/moms (meaning Hinata, who embodies traditional Japan and its values as a clan princess) over active/modern types like Sakura portrays.

 

So I was wondering...was Hinata's move into the heroine slot and the backlash against Sakura a result of these cultural pressures? Did they make Hinata the love interest because she fits the role of the baifumei girl? 

 

And is Naruto now the "gao fu shuai" - literally translated to tall, rich, handsome — which is the ultimate counterpart to the baifumei girl?

 

And all of this got me wondering.... Was Kishimoto pandering to Chinese and Japanese audiences when he recast Hinata as a baifumei princess? How popular is Naruto in China? Would it be worth it? Would it be a monetary coup to make a movie that's a sappy ideal girl/ideal boy love story versus a movie/manga ending that paired the hero with an athletic modern girl who's relationship follows the Japanese tsundere trope?

 

There's been a lot of talk about NH being a favorite Western ship and that Kishimoto finally bowed to pressure from the NH fans. But what if was more culturally based that that? What if they were instead trying to target Chinese/Japanese girls through Hinata in "The Last," just as the manga had always been aimed at boys through Naruto? 

 

In a nutshell, Hinata's looks, though plain at the beginning of the manga, have been morphed into a known and named popular look among some Asian girls. However you'd be hard-pressed to find a real-life Sakura style to emulate, outside of her pink hair.

 

So - how big a role did this play in Hinata's makeover from forgettable side character to the byakugan princess? Did the marketing team take popular styles into account when remaking Hinata into the new female lead? Is Naruto popular enough in China that they tried make a girl character that represented the fashionable baifumei look, then rebuild Naruto as a romance instead of a bro-mance?

 

Thoughts?

 

Frankly, if culture is involved, we (pardon me), Asian have been trying very hard to remove every single stereotypes that are becoming barricades rather than heritage. Especially with the way women is perceived.

 

We've been fighting so hard to deflect the stereotypes that woman is just good as a wife at home. No, I'm not talking about extreme feminism, but we can also do a good work as any other educated and dedicated men out there. We also don't mind to get the freedom of taking care kids at home. But it doesn't mean we cannot do more...

 

It's the cultural perception that blocks the younger female generation to do more.

 

And the way series like Naruto concluded does not help in any of those. Again, judging from the interviews of Kishi, I'd say he either don't care that much about giving 'motivation' and 'inspiration' to the reader, or he don't know the impact of his morale message to the younger audience.

 

Either way, I'd say the cause is not driven by cultural values.

[NeonRanger]

Since past interviews, I just believe he's just a bit ignorant.

 

it really doesn't help that the majority looks up to Hinata as heroine material and how Sakura continued to lessen in popularity. I personally feel that the fans pushed Kishi into like Hinata more, giving up on Sakura completely. 

 

Naruto so far for me is the only series where characters like Hinata are praised through hell and back, where people are willing to jump on you're case if you even call her weak or submissive compared to other strong female characters, even agreeing that she's a new age Heroine, while Sakura was thrown into trash/ secondary importance the minute she was introduced in ch. 3. Since then, she has only continued to be more hated, even during the Sasori fight, that Kishi straight out stop putting any effort since then. Kishi didn't help on some matters, but he's only seen Sakura hate and Hinata approval, and I'm left scratching my head on how we are in the minority when it comes to Sakura. 

[rocci]

Her fan see her as best girl material.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Her fan see her as best girl material.

Or how Kishi even said, big boobies.

[rocci]

Or how Kishi even said, big boobies.

That's how kishi see her character.
Her fan she her as the best girl, goddess, ideal girl, true heroine and Yamato nadeshiko.
For the last one I don't understand why they call her Yamato nadeshiko unless they thought serving tea with kimono at the end of part 1 to neji and his father is a sign of it.

[db84x]

@ rocci

It called cultural difference, I hope someday you will understand it.  Btw your misunderstanding which made our job convert true neutral became easy.

 

The easiness which I never found in any pairing wars before. 

Edited by db84x, 16 February 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[Nar123]

@ rocci
It called cultural difference, I hope someday you will understand it.  Btw your misunderstanding which made our job convert true neutral became easy.
 
The easiness which I never found in any pairing wars before. 

Don't kid yourself, true neutrals have left the series since long ago

[Bail o' Lies]

Don't kid yourself, true neutrals have left the series since long ago

In the US they left when Toonami stop being on Saturday evening.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Hinata is/was created nothing but a s** doll for guys (otaku) that can't have the or seem to get the real thing 

[TheFirstEvil100]

Hinata is/was created nothing but a s** doll for guys (otaku) that can't have the or seem to get the real thing 

Oh that is true it what males like aftyer all, well the beta males a woman just to do what they want nothing more.

 

oh god news I know what to do with my old Naruto manga put them in the recycle that way the paper can be better use for something far better.

[EmperorZeo]

Quick question, has a shy girl stalking a guy ever been depicted as leading to a healthy relationship in any other anime or manga? I honestly only remember one other girl who stalked the guy she liked the same way Hinata did.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Quick question, has a shy girl stalking a guy ever been depicted as leading to a healthy relationship in any other anime or manga? I honestly only remember one other girl who stalked the guy she liked the same way Hinata did.

Mizore Shirayuki with Tsukune Aono in Rosario + Vampire? lol

If so, at least Mizore actually became strong and doesn't take crap from others. Basically, she's not a doormat.

[rocci]

@nar123
He think I don't know that such thing exist.
Yes, neutral already move on from naruto and neutral hate naruto.
There's a reason naruto fandom called as narutard.

@emperorzeo
They always use it as comedy/gag.