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Kakashi should have actually trained Sakura.


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#1 Toby

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 03:38 AM

Kakashi has been unnecessarily condescending to Sakura for Part 1. (And gave 0 training to Sakura after part 1.) 

 

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Kakashi even told Naruto about Sasuke's whereabouts for the month, but left Sakura in the dark. That led to Sakura being worried to death about Sasuke for a month straight, because they just fought Orochimaru. 

 

(And it didn't occur to Naruto to tell Sakura about  Sasuke being with Kakashi.  ) 

Naruto knew

 

What happened to all that "Teamwork" nindo that Kakashi was preaching at the start of Team 7? Teamwork does not mean keeping each other in the dark about who he's training. What if  your teammate mysteriously vanishes from your ninja squad- right after you three fought Orochimaru, and no one tells you what happens to him until 1 month later? No wonder Sakura was worried sick, she wasn't worried because she was in love with Sasuke or a Sasuke fangirl, she was worried because any reasonable person left in the dark would be WORRIED. 

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(And Anti-NS or Anti-Sakura people point this out and say that Sakura is thinking about Sasuke during Naruto's match and that Ino is a better person. Honestly, this scene should not have happened, and wouldn't have if the author made Kakashi tell Sakura that he didn't run away but is training with him. Even Naruto knew and wasn't worried. This is just more panel time excuse for more Sakura obsession with Sasuke, which many people grew sick of.  )

 

---

 

 

I really hate how Kishimoto wrote Sakura's anger off to be like "It's alright," like she's a pushover accepting this treatment from Kakashi. 

 

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Ino would have made a better character, Sakura just became a PUSHOVER despite her anger. That's not how "teamwork" should work, she should not have let this slide. 

 

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Honestly Sakura was worried about the mark for 1 month straight, Kakashi should have said something about that and said where he's taking Sasuke.

 

Otherwise, all the information she had was: Sasuke suddenly VANISHES from the Hospital, with the Curse Mark. He could have been either kidnapped or, if he "ran away" which is Sakura's theory, he could have died in a ditch somewhere. 

 

Naruto knew about Sasuke's whereabouts, as did Kakashi, but not Sakura. These mini things make Sakura not treated as a part of Team 7, despite her usefulness, she was not entirely useless. 

 

A good scene: 

 

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But no, here she is made into a pushover. 

 

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(admittedly this panel isn't over Sasuke, it's over her being "jealous" of Naruto being stronger, and wanting to work harder.)

 

But ALL THESE EXTRAS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF KAKASHI TOLD SAKURA THAT SASUKE DIDNT DIE OR VANISH: 

 

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Look how sad she is, we have so many panels where this "Sasuke..." is shoved in our face, even more prominent in the anime.

 

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If she's been THIS scared/worried about Sasuke, then she should do something about Kakashi keeping team secrets from her. 

 

Because he comes back and she's like this to Kakashi for hiding it. even though Ino expected Sakura to be mad (since if that were Ino, Ino would be mad):     

 

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Edited by Toby, 08 March 2019 - 03:39 AM.


#2 Toby

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 03:42 AM

Also the reason people don't like Sakura is because she does not seem to TRAIN. 

 

 

How often do we see Sakura train with Naruto and Sasuke? During that TREE CLIMBING lesson back in the Wave Arc, Sasuke and Naruto trained all night together, while Sakura got it right on first try and went away to do her own thing. 

 

She's always left out of the Team 7 training dynamic, I'd have rather Sakura NOT got it right on first try and be forced to tree-climb with Sasuke and Naruto all night instead. 

 

 

But in this case, Kakashi could have at least put her on Water-walking exercise. Not have her stop there, since she managed to tree-climb on first try, while the other 2 boys catch up to her. 



#3 jak123

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 04:40 AM

Well he only trained Sasuke because Kakashi was the Sasuke equivalent of his group of 3.



#4 Toby

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 05:03 AM

Well he only trained Sasuke because Kakashi was the Sasuke equivalent of his group of 3.

Yeah, we get that Kakashi trained Sasuke because Sasuke needed to be strong for the Gaara fight, and had a similar attitude to Kakashi. 

 

But Kakashi should have told Sakura about it. 



#5 thelordofspace72

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 07:33 PM

Perhaps if Kakashi is more aware that Sakura is the only one in the team who still lacks the skills and powers to fight, he may decide to train Sakura to become skilled, and become the level of Naruto and SasukPerhaps if Kakashi is more aware that Sakura is the only one in the team who still lacks the skills and powers to fight, he may decide to train Sakura to become skilled, and become the level of Naruto and Sasuke level.

 

 



#6 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:03 AM

The joke is, a dude never got students who passed his exams, him being a good ninja doesn't make him a good teacher.



#7 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 03:24 PM

The joke is, a dude never got students who passed his exams, him being a good ninja doesn't make him a good teacher.

 

Yeah, plus Kakashi was too stuck in the past, and all he saw from Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura was Obito, himself, and Rin respectively without thinking of how different they were from them. It's what led to all the problems that happened, as well as his condescending to both Sakura and even Naruto at times because of his views on elites in some areas, rather than thinking of teamwork and being unable to let his past be the starting point for who he could have become after Obito "died".



#8 tricksie

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 03:32 PM

So there's a lot of Team 7 stuff that was ignored. Like why did Kakashi have a 'nose for the odd ones,' and who were his former 'odd' students? He must have been a teacher before, because he knows about it, enough to say kids never pass his bell test. So who were the odd ones who came before Team 7? And what about after? Kakashi would have had another team after them, right?

 

As for training Sasuke, it never bothered me because it seemed like that was the most significant reason Sasuke was paired with Kakashi. For sharingan training, and inevitably for protection against Itachi, the only known sharingan user still out there. 

 

And it makes sense that Naruto was pushed off on Ebisu, because at the time Naruto wasn't up to Sasuke's level, and it heightend the suspense/delays the drama by making Naruto wait for Jiraiya, the one who would be his true master. 

 

HOWEVER, all this falls apart with Sakura. It's like they just forgot she was there. And I think Kishi did! She got a master and was trained all within a page or two before the time skip. That was it. So much for Kakashi and teaching all of Team 7. I don't even remember Kakashi spending 5 minutes thinking about Sakura's skills or who she might benefit from shadowing. And she was the one who figured herself out and approached Tsunade with her goals. No help from Kakashi. 

 

I've always thought they missed a good plot opportunity by not highlighting that Team 7 of orphans taught by a grown-up orphan. That they are all lonely, one of a kind, kids from traumatizing backgrounds. Sakura is the exception because she came from a family, but her journey from a civilian family into a murderous profession that is secretive, cagey and populated almost exclusively by people from clans can not have been an easy one. Sakura would have been on her own. She may have been talented, but in the ninja world (as opposed to the civilian world), she was very much an orphan. Even Lee had Might Guy as his parent/caregiver in the ninja world. But Sakura had about as much familial support as Naruto or Sai. Which is to say, none.

 

Another reason why I like Naruto and Sakura as a pair so much is that they are both extreme anomalies in their environments, and no one seems to notice that. Naruto is raised as an orphan, with skills that don't align with any other nin or clan. But there's no doubt he's a nin, even for people who don't know his secret background. Sakura, however, is an even bigger anomaly, being a prodigy from a clan-less non-ninja family. 

 

Sasuke is a prodigy from an elite clan. No big surprise there. 

 

It's unfortunate that they let Sakura's story go, because all of the structure is there. They just didn't develop it. Kakashi could have certainly connected with her, helped her find her way. He may have had Sasuke's powers, but he had much more in common with Sakura (and Naruto), because he was a clan-less orphan in a ninja system that relies on master-student relationships for the student to reach their highest potential. Kakashi only achieved his high skill level because of the sharingan. He should have seen Sakura as a kid like him, someone in danger of not finding her place and slipping through the cracks. It would have been a nice way to tie in his childhood backstory too, about his dad and his clan (instead of about his screwed up team, which btw, he was also orphaned from as he's the only survivor). 

 

You get the sense Kakashi feels this way about Sasuke, that he's got to save him. And that he's somewhat concerned that Naruto is going to slip through. But at no point does he ever seem to concern himself with Sakura's path. Sakura does it herself. And he just shrugs and says 'oh yeah, good job!'



#9 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 06:17 PM

So there's a lot of Team 7 stuff that was ignored. Like why did Kakashi have a 'nose for the odd ones,' and who were his former 'odd' students? He must have been a teacher before, because he knows about it, enough to say kids never pass his bell test. So who were the odd ones who came before Team 7? And what about after? Kakashi would have had another team after them, right?

 

As for training Sasuke, it never bothered me because it seemed like that was the most significant reason Sasuke was paired with Kakashi. For sharingan training, and inevitably for protection against Itachi, the only known sharingan user still out there. 

 

And it makes sense that Naruto was pushed off on Ebisu, because at the time Naruto wasn't up to Sasuke's level, and it heightend the suspense/delays the drama by making Naruto wait for Jiraiya, the one who would be his true master. 

 

HOWEVER, all this falls apart with Sakura. It's like they just forgot she was there. And I think Kishi did! She got a master and was trained all within a page or two before the time skip. That was it. So much for Kakashi and teaching all of Team 7. I don't even remember Kakashi spending 5 minutes thinking about Sakura's skills or who she might benefit from shadowing. And she was the one who figured herself out and approached Tsunade with her goals. No help from Kakashi. 

 

I've always thought they missed a good plot opportunity by not highlighting that Team 7 of orphans taught by a grown-up orphan. That they are all lonely, one of a kind, kids from traumatizing backgrounds. Sakura is the exception because she came from a family, but her journey from a civilian family into a murderous profession that is secretive, cagey and populated almost exclusively by people from clans can not have been an easy one. Sakura would have been on her own. She may have been talented, but in the ninja world (as opposed to the civilian world), she was very much an orphan. Even Lee had Might Guy as his parent/caregiver in the ninja world. But Sakura had about as much familial support as Naruto or Sai. Which is to say, none.

 

Another reason why I like Naruto and Sakura as a pair so much is that they are both extreme anomalies in their environments, and no one seems to notice that. Naruto is raised as an orphan, with skills that don't align with any other nin or clan. But there's no doubt he's a nin, even for people who don't know his secret background. Sakura, however, is an even bigger anomaly, being a prodigy from a clan-less non-ninja family. 

 

Sasuke is a prodigy from an elite clan. No big surprise there. 

 

It's unfortunate that they let Sakura's story go, because all of the structure is there. They just didn't develop it. Kakashi could have certainly connected with her, helped her find her way. He may have had Sasuke's powers, but he had much more in common with Sakura (and Naruto), because he was a clan-less orphan in a ninja system that relies on master-student relationships for the student to reach their highest potential. Kakashi only achieved his high skill level because of the sharingan. He should have seen Sakura as a kid like him, someone in danger of not finding her place and slipping through the cracks. It would have been a nice way to tie in his childhood backstory too, about his dad and his clan (instead of about his screwed up team, which btw, he was also orphaned from as he's the only survivor). 

 

You get the sense Kakashi feels this way about Sasuke, that he's got to save him. And that he's somewhat concerned that Naruto is going to slip through. But at no point does he ever seem to concern himself with Sakura's path. Sakura does it herself. And he just shrugs and says 'oh yeah, good job!'

 

:w00t:  WOW, you sure crushed it as usual, Tricks :wub: Just... WOW! 

Also, even if Kakashi had some talent before he got the Sharingan from Obito, he mostly was too blinded by anger at his inability to see what Sakumo had done was about doing the right thing, even if it seems wrong at the time, which is why I feel that it's a damn shame Kakashi was too stuck on seeing his students as his old team without thinking of how different they were. What hurt worst at times is how he seems to imply later on he KNOWS Minato is Naruto's father, but does jack and **** to help with that factor, and Jack's left the building! Plus he looks down on Naruto for his innovative ways to do stuff, like his coming up with the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage in his fight with Kiba just from seeing Sasuke do the Lion's Barrage AND Naruto didn't even have a Sharingan to see the beginning of the Primary Lotus, so he had to improvise with what he had, hence his use of the Shadow Clone Jutsu to compensate. That takes more creativity and even some more talent than some Kekkei Genkai that lets you basically copy anything without often having to train to make it even better.



#10 tricksie

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 03:59 AM

 

:w00t:  WOW, you sure crushed it as usual, Tricks :wub: Just... WOW! 

Also, even if Kakashi had some talent before he got the Sharingan from Obito, he mostly was too blinded by anger at his inability to see what Sakumo had done was about doing the right thing, even if it seems wrong at the time, which is why I feel that it's a damn shame Kakashi was too stuck on seeing his students as his old team without thinking of how different they were. What hurt worst at times is how he seems to imply later on he KNOWS Minato is Naruto's father, but does jack and **** to help with that factor, and Jack's left the building! Plus he looks down on Naruto for his innovative ways to do stuff, like his coming up with the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage in his fight with Kiba just from seeing Sasuke do the Lion's Barrage AND Naruto didn't even have a Sharingan to see the beginning of the Primary Lotus, so he had to improvise with what he had, hence his use of the Shadow Clone Jutsu to compensate. That takes more creativity and even some more talent than some Kekkei Genkai that lets you basically copy anything without often having to train to make it even better.

YES!!! I have a big problem with how at first Naruto is alone and shunned — to the point that he almost turns bad by stealing the scrolls —  and then it's revealed all these people knew all along! Kakashi should have shown some kindness, some preference for Naruto, some statement of support in the face of him doing really dumb stuff. And yeah, he should have seen the spark of Minato in Naruto, because he definitely was shining in spite of being a hard-to-reach/teach troublemaker.



#11 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 05:17 AM

YES!!! I have a big problem with how at first Naruto is alone and shunned — to the point that he almost turns bad by stealing the scrolls —  and then it's revealed all these people knew all along! Kakashi should have shown some kindness, some preference for Naruto, some statement of support in the face of him doing really dumb stuff. And yeah, he should have seen the spark of Minato in Naruto, because he definitely was shining in spite of being a hard-to-reach/teach troublemaker.

 

Exactly. It shows even if Naruto took more after Kushina in terms of how his talent was, he definitely shows Minato's determination and hard work, which is why he was able to learn the Shadow Clone Jutsu in such a short time when the Clone Jutsu was one of his weak points in his days at the Academy, and I also imagine it coming from Mizuki's manipulating him, especially since Naruto felt Iruka just didn't want to give him another chance because Naruto assumed like everyone else did that Iruka hated him deep down, just as it was when he learned he was a Jinchuriki.

 

Even Hiruzen didn't show much for support for Naruto, considering I like to imagine he blamed Naruto himself for his wife Miwako's death, even if it wasn't Naruto's fault she died. It's what makes Naruto's  backstory so much more tragic; the fact that he could have had some support, but some people were too stuck up in their asses over the fact they chose to view him as Kurama rather than as himself, and that just because someone is a Jinchuriki doesn't mean they are a monster.

 

It's an aspect i so wish had been explored more with Killer Bee than just "He takes pride in being a Jinchuriki" and all that crap when his choosing to take off like he did after it was thought Taka had "kidnapped" him, contradicting that whole pride thing if you ask me. I know in my fic that I explore that, as well as the problems of some people who knew Naruto's true heritage, and how some of them also had just hated him too even if it didn't seem, but some having regret over it, like Naruto getting a letter from Hiruzen sometime before Orochimaru's invasion, etc.

 

So much that coulda been covered, and it all got skimmed over for the stupidest of reasons. XP

 

But I'm glad you like what I am getting at, Tricks. Always makes me smile.  :wink:



#12 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 05:43 AM

The joke is, a dude never got students who passed his exams, him being a good ninja doesn't make him a good teacher.

That seems to be another common theme - great ninja, terrible teachers...

- Itachi: In hindsight, his words weren't meant to be taken literally like Sasuke did. The whole "when you have the same eyes as I do" was actually supposed to be for Sasuke to be able to "see" beyond just the Uchiha Clan, to see Konoha as a whole and to work beyond what the Clan itself wants like he did. That was why he had become so much stronger than any other Uchiha Clan member at the time - he didn't limit himself strictly to what the Clan teaches. He tried to learn and master as much as he possibly could, both in and out of the Clan, having an open-mind about things, able to see how dirty things were becoming within the Clan, and so on.

- Kakashi: Made pretty obvious in the series.

- Jiraiya: Supposedly the strongest of the Sannin and yet he barely actually teaches Naruto anything during the time skip. After his attempt to get Naruto to control more of Kurama's chakra ends with him nearly getting killed, it's like he just gave up on trying to train Naruto in anything beyond just basics. This is illustrated by just how weak Naruto was compared to everyone else (sans Hinatatas) when he returns, especially Sasuke when they first encounter each other again. Even if you ignore Naruto still being worn down from going four-tails before, Sasuke still showed that he would have effortlessly owned Naruto as the Sharingan was able to immediately suppress Kurama's chakra thus taking away Naruto's crutch / trump card before the fight even started.

Beyond that, you had Jiraiya initially trying to train Naruto in a way that was completely counterproductive considering just who he was training Naruto to be able to fight and defend himself against - Akatsuki; all Kage level opponents who were chosen specifically based on their abilities and how effective their teams would be against Biju and Jinchuriki since their goal was their capture, and Naruto had two of their strongest gunning for him - Itachi and Kisame - whose abilities were tailored for fighting against him and Kurama; Itachi with his own raw skill and the Sharingan, and Kisame with his own massive reserves (at just up to 30%, according to Neji when he was reading the Shapeshift Clone's chakra, Kisame's reserves were said to be as large as Naruto's), his own skill as a swordsman (something Naruto would most likely not be good at fighting against), and Samehada's own ability at "eating" chakra (which was demonstrated with how easily Kisame beat Bee).,

Even if Jiraiya had succeeded in getting Naruto to (barely) control more of Kurama's chakra, it wouldn't have mattered in the long run because Itachi and Kisame still would have been able to easily defeat him because it's what they were meant to fight against and that was ALL Naruto would have had. Without Kurama's chakra, Naruto was a one-trick pony; barely any true skill of his own and a very limited arsenal, and his ability to think quick on his feet may work against those who underestimate him, but ones like Itachi and Kisame's caliber would most likely NOT fall for such simple tricks (ignoring Kishi giving them moments of stupidity like with Kakuzu) and in the off-chance that they did, they wouldn't be nearly as effective.

Jiraiya was simply far too lax with Naruto and it reflected glaringly throughout all of part two really.

 


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#13 Toby

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:08 AM

That seems to be another common theme - great ninja, terrible teachers...

- Itachi: In hindsight, his words weren't meant to be taken literally like Sasuke did. The whole "when you have the same eyes as I do" was actually supposed to be for Sasuke to be able to "see" beyond just the Uchiha Clan, to see Konoha as a whole and to work beyond what the Clan itself wants like he did. That was why he had become so much stronger than any other Uchiha Clan member at the time - he didn't limit himself strictly to what the Clan teaches. He tried to learn and master as much as he possibly could, both in and out of the Clan, having an open-mind about things, able to see how dirty things were becoming within the Clan, and so on.

- Kakashi: Made pretty obvious in the series.

- Jiraiya: Supposedly the strongest of the Sannin and yet he barely actually teaches Naruto anything during the time skip. After his attempt to get Naruto to control more of Kurama's chakra ends with him nearly getting killed, it's like he just gave up on trying to train Naruto in anything beyond just basics. This is illustrated by just how weak Naruto was compared to everyone else (sans Hinatatas) when he returns, especially Sasuke when they first encounter each other again. Even if you ignore Naruto still being worn down from going four-tails before, Sasuke still showed that he would have effortlessly owned Naruto as the Sharingan was able to immediately suppress Kurama's chakra thus taking away Naruto's crutch / trump card before the fight even started.

Beyond that, you had Jiraiya initially trying to train Naruto in a way that was completely counterproductive considering just who he was training Naruto to be able to fight and defend himself against - Akatsuki; all Kage level opponents who were chosen specifically based on their abilities and how effective their teams would be against Biju and Jinchuriki since their goal was their capture, and Naruto had two of their strongest gunning for him - Itachi and Kisame - whose abilities were tailored for fighting against him and Kurama; Itachi with his own raw skill and the Sharingan, and Kisame with his own massive reserves (at just up to 30%, according to Neji when he was reading the Shapeshift Clone's chakra, Kisame's reserves were said to be as large as Naruto's), his own skill as a swordsman (something Naruto would most likely not be good at fighting against), and Samehada's own ability at "eating" chakra (which was demonstrated with how easily Kisame beat Bee).,

Even if Jiraiya had succeeded in getting Naruto to (barely) control more of Kurama's chakra, it wouldn't have mattered in the long run because Itachi and Kisame still would have been able to easily defeat him because it's what they were meant to fight against and that was ALL Naruto would have had. Without Kurama's chakra, Naruto was a one-trick pony; barely any true skill of his own and a very limited arsenal, and his ability to think quick on his feet may work against those who underestimate him, but ones like Itachi and Kisame's caliber would most likely NOT fall for such simple tricks (ignoring Kishi giving them moments of stupidity like with Kakuzu) and in the off-chance that they did, they wouldn't be nearly as effective.

Jiraiya was simply far too lax with Naruto and it reflected glaringly throughout all of part two really.

 

I LOVE this, you could make a thread on this.

 

 

What do you think Jiraiya should have taught Naruto that would have given Naruto a chance to hold his own against Kisame/Itachi/Akatsuki? 

 

(And your analysis on the others- especially Itachi- are spot on) 



#14 hisaberpie

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:51 PM

I think the reason kakashi ignored sakura and chose naruto and sasuke over her was maybe because he never felt a personal connection to her. Like naruto is the host of a tailed beast, son of the fourth hokage and his former teacher while sasuke is an uchiha, a relative of his old teammate and a reflection of himself when he was younger.

 

Sakura was neither of those things, she came from a civilian family and compared to a jinchurriki and the last surviving uchiha, she was a nobody. Shes practically just like the countless, nameless students kakashi failed in his previous bell tests. Thats why kakashi sidelined and ignored her through most of the series.

 

And while thats annoying i think it turned out for the better. I like tsunade being sakuras teacher more then kakashi, she has that personal connection to sakura, unfortunately kishi never did anything more with them. In fact, i dont think we see orochimaru doing much with sasuke either. Id also say that kishi couldve set yamato up as sakuras teacher too but here we are. Another missed opportunity, another fault in the story.



#15 milan kyuubi

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:28 PM

Due to the ending I consider Sakura to be the strongest charter power wise. You may ask how. Thats because having nothing going for her (not even her own sensei), she took matters and became strong by her own will. Her potential was enormous. But unfortunately Kishi did not even try at all with her, especially in the end. And while Sakura poured tears and blood for every ounce of strength. Unlike Naruto and Sasuke who were literately given God powers.

 

 

When I think about it more. All senseis sucked.

 

Kakashi ignoring two and teaching only 1. Even knowing he was dangerous to his friends.

 

Don't know much about Guy. But seams he also did a kakashi and only had eyes for Lee.

 

Kurenai was just focusing on getting Hinata to open and change. Again not difrent from kakashi and Guy.

 

Asuma was also the same. Playing games with Shikamaru and focusing on him.

 

Jiraiya was teaching Naruto unnecessary things and not doing a good job at it.

 

Sarutobi also played favorites with Orochimaru.

 

Seams was more concerned about teaching shortcuts. Then actually real teaching.


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#16 Yyubie

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 11:16 PM

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This pretty much answer it all why ...

 

FAVORITISM

 

My theory is Sakura is suppose to be a genjutsu genius in the future , that rival those uchihas. But because of favoritism and Kishi's lack of knowledge of how to develop a female heroine , it all gone to waste.


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#17 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 02:09 AM

naruto-1210389.jpg

 

This pretty much answer it all why ...

 

FAVORITISM

 

My theory is Sakura is suppose to be a genjutsu genius in the future , that rival those uchihas. But because of favoritism and Kishi's lack of knowledge of how to develop a female heroine , it all gone to waste.

 

And even Kakashi showed that favoritism in his approach with Sasuke, plus even for all his bravado about killing him, he tried to once again talking to him, showing he didn't have the balls to kill him even if he spoke tough about it.



#18 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 02:33 AM

I LOVE this, you could make a thread on this.

 

 

What do you think Jiraiya should have taught Naruto that would have given Naruto a chance to hold his own against Kisame/Itachi/Akatsuki? 

 

(And your analysis on the others- especially Itachi- are spot on) 

Let's see...

- Have Naruto do Sage Training earlier on. Not immediately, but maybe after a year or so of hard training in other things.

- Have Naruto truly master the base Rasengan, as in being able to do it quickly and by himself without needing to use a Kage Bunshin, Kurama's chakra (like with the final grapple with Sasuke in the VotE), and/or Sage Mode to assist. Yes, it requires better chakra control (something else Jiraiya should have trained him in), but that's been shown to be something that could be learned and mastered over time. It's only easier right off the bat for those with less chakra reserves like Sakura had as opposed to large ones like Naruto.

- Have Naruto learn elemental ninjutsu like Sasuke had long since been taught; first somewhat by Kakashi when learning the Chidori, and then enhancing it under Orochimaru, even if it was only Wind ninjutsu. Coupled with the previous point, Naruto could have returned with an already-truly-mastered Rasenshuriken at the beginning of part two.

- Keep trying to teach Naruto about the REALITY of the world instead of just giving up after one attempt (the hospital post-Sasuke). Not to say Naruto must completely give up his ideals, but at least like previous Kages who had similar aspirations for peace (Hashirama, Hiruzen, and Minato), he would be able to go about them in a more realistic fashion instead of the very dogmatic, narrow-minded way he did.

- Do not treat him with kid gloves like he clearly has. Naruto was being trained to face S-Rank, Kage level shinobi who could destroy entire villages by themselves, so Jiraiya should have been training him into the ground as hard as he could (within reason) every single day and NOT put up with Naruto's childish and naive attitude and such. The fact that Naruto was Minato's son and that he (and Kakashi) clearly knew it should have been even greater motivation to make sure Naruto was truly as prepared as possible. By not doing so, he was dishonoring Minato's memory and sacrifice.

- If necessary, work beyond the two and half year time period. Don't really see why they had to stop and return just because it was when Akatsuki would be moving again.
 

 

Due to the ending I consider Sakura to be the strongest charter power wise. You may ask how. Thats because having nothing going for her (not even her own sensei), she took matters and became strong by her own will. Her potential was enormous. But unfortunately Kishi did not even try at all with her, especially in the end. And while Sakura poured tears and blood for every ounce of strength. Unlike Naruto and Sasuke who were literately given God powers.

 

 

When I think about it more. All senseis sucked.

 

Kakashi ignoring two and teaching only 1. Even knowing he was dangerous to his friends.

 

Don't know much about Guy. But seams he also did a kakashi and only had eyes for Lee.

 

Kurenai was just focusing on getting Hinata to open and change. Again not difrent from kakashi and Guy.

 

Asuma was also the same. Playing games with Shikamaru and focusing on him.

 

Jiraiya was teaching Naruto unnecessary things and not doing a good job at it.

 

Sarutobi also played favorites with Orochimaru.

 

Seams was more concerned about teaching shortcuts. Then actually real teaching.

Iruka, while he was emotionally good for Naruto, was not very good otherwise either by coddling Naruto and letting him get away with stuff like ditching Kurama chakra training with Bee to go play hero.


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#19 Phantom_999

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 05:39 PM

I have already stated this before, Kakashi was a HORRIBLE teacher to  Naruto and Sakura because he taught them jack squat. Even Naruto's rasenshuriken training was NOT Kakashi training him when you think about it. It was about Naruto self-discovering his element affinity and then creating a new technique that his father create couldn't complete and Kakashi was not instructing him so much as giving him a starting line and then Naruto was on his own from there on out.  His COMPLETE neglect of Sakura was very also jarring considering that  she is training to be a spy, assassin, and essentially a soldier, but he did not teach her anything useful to ensure her survival. Guess Sakura was only there to give Team 7 some eye candy? Kishi seems to think so judging by that impression.
 
And truth be told this part of Naruto and Sakura progress as characters being neutered was NOT Helped by their Sannin masters. compared to Sasuke's growth with Orochimaru, Naruto was an essentially "one trick pony" that was no better off dealing with Akatsuki  than from before he left the village. What has Jiraiya taught Naruto for 3 whole years? A bigger rasengan that drains his stamina more than usual? Unlocking the seal on the Kyuubi chakra that makes Naruto lose control of himself? Wow WHAT great lessons and techniques Naruto came back with............ never mind that that big big rasengan does not change Naruto's lack of range and now he tires himself out quicker for nothing if that "super heavy basketball" misses. Or that him losing his mind and sense of self is actually dangerous in the middle of a fight against Akatsuki because they are capturing Tail Beasts left, right and centre, therefore would be prepared to deal with tail beast's powers and Naruto turning into a berserk feral animal that is not using his intelligence or tactics would only make his capture easier. This is essentially the epitome of Kishimoto's lack of planning and set up to develop Naruto as a character as he should becasue the plot demands Naruto fight terribly strong enemies that are specifically looking for him and want what is inside him. Kishimoto was TOO WORRIED ABOUT MAKING HIS PWECIOUS WIDDLE "creator's pet" Uchiha Sasuke-kun looking even cooler than how to develop Naruto, I guess?
 
As for Sakura, well she did make some huge leaps and bounds as a character but the thing is she started from nothing so anything would look impressive because she had nothing to begin with compared to the other K11(12) that each had a special gimmick or move to have them stand out from each other. that aside I never understood the training Tsunade put Sakura through and the applications never popped up again after the fight with Sasori. What does dodging do? sure it keeps a medic alive with out wasting chakra so that they can heal but I asked this before, how does that help against enemies or ninja techniques that move/attack faster than you can react to or A.O.E. attacks like large explosions? Super strength was a good choice yes but if you can't hit anything it is useless so maybe training up movement speed would compliment that very well. And ultimately the function of Tsunade and Sakura's super strength raises another question which is why note develop some offence or defensive oriented techniques to cover the problems that I listed above? Sure super strength is useful but you can't compete with some of the crazy powers that are in the setting by just punching things because brute force does not work in some instances at least when dealing with things you can not physically touch for instance. So why couldn't Tsunade and Sakura create some attacks to protect themselves and other against opposing ninjutsu, and no it has nothing to do with conserving Chakra because that clearly did not stop them from using chakra enhanced strength now did it? and As I recall, part of chakra control involves expending as little chakra as possible to use a technique and medical ninja should have the most prestigious of chakra control so I don't see why Tsunade and Sakura could not develop ninjutsu that uses little chakra for attacking or defending since they already can do quite a lot with "landscape destroying punches"
 
Overall the problem is really LACK of priority to Sakura and Naruto in the story to the point that they look like "weak characters". Both emotionally and as ninjas


Edited by Phantom_999, 22 March 2019 - 06:18 PM.

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#20 Yyubie

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 02:51 PM

naruto-1961857.jpg

 

So Kakashi imply that it's not ok for Naruto to kill his favorite student but it's ok for his favorite student to kill Naruto?

This is when i'm starting to really hate Kakashi , the first time i'm starting to dislike him is when he throw Naruto to Ebisu so that he can focus teaching Sasuke.


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An out of control man needs a strong woman to control him.
And even a violent woman will become soft and tender to the man she love.





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