26 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Long time ago, a boy felt that the story should have more involvement with side characters. That was me. I would have like to see more of side characters involved. Now, here we are in this arc, with many characters involved and now here I am to say, "Wow, now everyone is involved." However, it had them involved a bit too much to the point I forgot what part happened. Now, in chapter 651, we have them involved with one of the big finale attack to Obito, the villain. What the world is finally saying?

 

A big bag of mixed feelings.

 

Ok, let's not talk about the symbols of the friendship. Let's talk about the situation of this chapter that many has defined side characters in one chapter. There is a lot of commotion going on and it's not really about what's next or anything about the main plot. It's about the side characters, mainly K9. There is a reason why many feels mixed. Some think it's not bad, some think it's a bit odd, some think it's the worst kitten ever. So why is all of this happening? Note: this is my point of view and I am willing to continue to give more responses as you post anything that reflects.

 

Ok, to begin with, many asked themselves, "Why did it worked in part 1?" For starters, they only appeared in 2 arcs and the last one has a reason to happen. The first arc with their appearances are made because it was held a tournament and many of them are there to create multiple situation with one to return with more developments, who is now known as Shikamaru. The second arc happened because they are low on manpower and this is one way to decrease Orochimaru's men to almost zero, left only experiments, Kabuto, and Sasuke. So, enter the rest of others. After that arc ended, they wouldn't be used for anymore in terms of relevance. So, now we enter part 2 and the side characters are there to present as manpower, not developments. Only one would be Shikamaru and Team 10 in a way.

 

So what's the problem? To be honest, nothing. The problem lies on the fans of those who likes the side characters that only tasked with one plot aka non-Shikamaru side characters. By the way, take Sai away, he actually worth more than this, regardless of his moment in the latest chapter, it's his judgment that carries forward to the main plot. Back to this, Why I said this? Because they would want to partake in a higher level of importance. Well, sadly, Bleach falls in line because one arc gave so many focus on many characters, and now, it's in yellow zone of getting canceled. Note, this was once the big 3 Jump series in Japan, who is now replaced by something else. This is a long running series and we don't really have time for that, but if you do want it, well enter war arc.

 

Well, in some people view, it's unfortunate that we have this arc to please those who needs it. Now, a problem is about too much focus, which I fall in here. You know why? Because we don't have time for others and to care for all others. It's all happening in one long arc and in fact, it's only long because of shifting focus on many. The reason why we don't want to spend many times with them is because we are established that they have nothing else to offer but manpower because that's what are side characters are made for when it comes to long-running series, but now, it's like "Well, why are you trying to make them relevant?"

 

I remember chapter 633 was released and people in here didn't care that much, minus the end. I would argue it's because it's Team 7 at the end, but largely because that chapter had them just do what they do: provide manpower. Do you know why in Chikara, anime filler arc, I complained about the side characters? Because they are there only to provide manpower. Noticed that I haven't talk about fan service for people to see them in action, but in reality, it's about the former. Why do you think I love Road To Ninja? Is it because it feeds NS to me? Is it because a nice moral story? While they are a part of it, but here's one of the main one: it's because it's very focused. It's not trying to provide you the usual Bleach movie style, where many other heroes would always appear in the end, or even some Naruto movies. It's all about delivering the message/story. It's not there to please the world on characters, essentially because this is how Kishi goes. All these stuff I have said doesn't mean I don't like side characters, it's just that they need to know their place.

 

Many has argued that perhaps Kishi should have cut down side characters when he first started. Many has argued that perhaps Kishi should have gave all of them a role in each arcs, but as I said above, it will fall in line of "taking too much time" and "random plot inserted". Do you want to know why other series work or how to make it work? Simple: story must be short; make an adventure story, though depends on how you do it; don't present them.

 

Short story as in not longer than, well now, would help because here's a thing. When you have one big focus/story, the novelty of the side characters doesn't die out since it's only one story. Take FMA for instance, there's really one story with acts or arcs if you want to call it, so you feel like you're in the same story. Yes, Naruto is one big story but it has multiple main boss battles, while in FMA, there are sub-bosses. It also helps that they're monthly manga, so the fight being dragged is almost non-existent. So let's say if FMA got more arcs, the novelty of side characters would wear off even if we like their attitudes and all, it's just there's no more plot relevant and anything to be done. In short, they ended when they got the chance. This also implies to Bleach, as the side characters usage has wear thin and now, it feels dragged realistically. Sure, fans would get what they want, but the package would look questionable.

 

An adventure story would help because you can always escape the zone that is home/base. Take One Piece for example, they're always moving and there's always new characters that are there for one arc only. Sure, some they recruit new members, but that's only because they want to fill the adventure with more exciting. Plus it does match up with their needs as pirates. But anyway, the point is that you always get new characters along the way and they would appear for like an update for small reason like, "What the world is thinking of this or that?" The only problem with adventure is that minus their powers, their character seems to stay the same, which is why I can understand the problem with people and see how some are turned off at times, but to each of their own. So to be honest, this wouldn't work with Naruto that well. In fact, it would seem Naruto would work best as monthly series when it comes to down it. I mean it can work with weekly as well, but it's like he has shift priority. Not change the story, but change on who needs the focus.

 

Don't present any of the side characters, well that's impossible at most cases, but you could do what the Avatar does: just have main characters. Yes, there are side characters, but they're there when they're really needed to be and that's why the show works unbelievably well. It's like an adventure story, only mixed with short story with real developments. I at times wish Naruto was like this but of course, Naruto is not traveling all day just to learn benders. Haha, that's a new story completely. But again, weekly does work, have the working system behind not involved. I'm not saying it's the system fault because clearly Kishi has more control than we all think he has, but it is known that he perhaps care for the fans that want more of side characters. That and mix of him caring too much of filling the blanks, even though some are open on their own but whatever. No, that doesn't mean he changed the story to make a whole new pairing, a whole new role, a whole new manga. It just means he wants to close the gap of his own story and of course, satisfy everyone along the way.

 

Before we close (Yes, finally!), the last question I want to address is why did Kishi do all this late? Well, whether there are actual clues/evidences of one thing and that is, "originally killing off some of the characters", this could implied on why he doesn't write them the way they are in older arcs. Again, these characters are made with one plot (unless you have that special trait, that is Shikamaru, which there are side characters that get this) and only provide support. So if the source is true, that would mean Kishi was going to be the usual writer, as in only have them for a bit and if you have nothing else, kill them or just sideline them for good. This also means that these characters are rarely guys that need attention but fans want them and Kishi seems to care. The main problem is what to do with them. The solution: repeat with a deeper resolution.

 

Sure, it's ok to go in-depth of that resolution, but it doesn't really scream, "New development that is different from previous." It doesn't make me like them more or less, depends. That's why I like Shikamaru's development from 649 because it's not about being the grown-up and be responsible, though it has some of that, but it's about backing up Naruto as his right-hand man. It's the nature of bond growth and it has worked up a lot since part 1 as well, so it's more natural than forced or repeats in a deeper resolution. I can see why people are annoyed with Hinata being repetitive and it's actually this arc that begins this, go figure.

 

So too long to read for many? Here's the point. The point is that these side characters aren't easy utilized or rather made to be doomed with criticism. Can you ever make it work in weekly manga series? To be honest and this is my opinion, but no. You can't get everyone or even most satisfied with the result because unless you have the requirements in above statements, then you are best to let them do little things, not that much. Note, the only one that can escape this in my view is Shikamaru, perhaps Team 10 since I find them larger than life compare to others, plus they can relate to the main characters such as Naruto and Sakura's childhood friends, and Sai as I see him a late entry to the main roster much like Wendy from Fairy Tail. All others, while I like them more or less, well they are doomed with criticism of taking space. While there is possibly more I can say, I would let you guys say something for me to respond to or anything.

 

Sorry for this LAP!

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, this usually applies mostly on battle manga, though it can be said for all. Comedy doesn't count really because you can just go all out stupid (funny) for all I care. Sports as well since everyone is already involved, though there are series that focus on one player throughout rather than the team.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 17 October 2013 - 02:51 AM.

[Atheck]

I just want to point out that the Chunin Exams arc (and by extension the Invasion of Konoha arc since they're conventionally grouped together) lasted from chapter #34 all the way up until #138. The Sasuke Retrieval arc ran from #172 to the end of P1 at #238. Now if you look at the manga comprehensively that may not seem like too much, but when you compress the window of content to just Part I you'll see that their involvement was seen throughout the majority of the chapters. 

 

The sum total of chapters from both of the above arcs is 170. That's roughly 70% of the first 238 chapters of the manga. The Rookies may not have had a widespread presence throughout P2, but in P1 they were easily some of the most integral members of the cast for much of the story as it unfolded. 

[Luna]

About the bleach part. Honestly I was so frustrated with Bleach. It was one of the top 3 along with Naruto and One Piece. At one point I can even say that I liked Bleach more than Naruto but as time progressed the fillers annoyed the hell out of me because they had no relevance at all. With Naruto for example they actually let the fillers sync in with the manga so it doesn't seem out of place but with Bleach in the Orihime rescue arc where Ichigo fought Grimmjow there was a filler around that time and the filler took place in the real world, I was like wtf. I was confused and didn't know what was going on at all. Secondly, the development of the characters were horrible...to the point it made me  pull my hair out. I know Ichigo is the main character but all the development went to him and him mostly. With Naruto I can see that although much characters aren't fully developed kishi tried what he could with them. With Bleach orihime had the same techniques for the whole series until when she finally got a new technique(I was happy) which was waaaaaaaaaaaaay late. Thirdly, NO characters on Bleach dies unless it's a villain or some random captain or something. It's like all the main characters are immortal.  I don't even read the manga anymore, I stopped 3 years ago. I would only check to see if ichihime happens cause I like her character and that's my fav bleach pairing.

 

Rant finished but otherwise I agree with you're post.

Edited by Baka chan, 17 October 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

Long time ago, a boy felt that the story should have more involvement with side characters. That was me. I would have like to see more of side characters involved. Now, here we are in this arc, with many characters involved and now here I am to say, "Wow, now everyone is involved." However, it had them involved a bit too much to the point I forgot what part happened. Now, in chapter 651, we have them involved with one of the big finale attack to Obito, the villain. What the world is finally saying?

 

A big bag of mixed feelings.

 

Ok, let's not talk about the symbols of the friendship. Let's talk about the situation of this chapter that many has defined side characters in one chapter. There is a lot of commotion going on and it's not really about what's next or anything about the main plot. It's about the side characters, mainly K9. There is a reason why many feels mixed. Some think it's not bad, some think it's a bit odd, some think it's the worst kitten ever. So why is all of this happening? Note: this is my point of view and I am willing to continue to give more responses as you post anything that reflects.

 

Ok, to begin with, many asked themselves, "Why did it worked in part 1?" For starters, they only appeared in 2 arcs and the last one has a reason to happen. The first arc with their appearances are made because it was held a tournament and many of them are there to create multiple situation with one to return with more developments, who is now known as Shikamaru. The second arc happened because they are low on manpower and this is one way to decrease Orochimaru's men to almost zero, left only experiments, Kabuto, and Sasuke. So, enter the rest of others. After that arc ended, they wouldn't be used for anymore in terms of relevance. So, now we enter part 2 and the side characters are there to present as manpower, not developments. Only one would be Shikamaru and Team 10 in a way.

 

So what's the problem? To be honest, nothing. The problem lies on the fans of those who likes the side characters that only tasked with one plot aka non-Shikamaru side characters. By the way, take Sai away, he actually worth more than this, regardless of his moment in the latest chapter, it's his judgment that carries forward to the main plot. Back to this, Why I said this? Because they would want to partake in a higher level of importance. Well, sadly, Bleach falls in line because one arc gave so many focus on many characters, and now, it's in yellow zone of getting canceled. Note, this was once the big 3 Jump series in Japan, who is now replaced by something else. This is a long running series and we don't really have time for that, but if you do want it, well enter war arc.

 

Well, in some people view, it's unfortunate that we have this arc to please those who needs it. Now, a problem is about too much focus, which I fall in here. You know why? Because we don't have time for others and to care for all others. It's all happening in one long arc and in fact, it's only long because of shifting focus on many. The reason why we don't want to spend many times with them is because we are established that they have nothing else to offer but manpower because that's what are side characters are made for when it comes to long-running series, but now, it's like "Well, why are you trying to make them relevant?"

 

I remember chapter 633 was released and people in here didn't care that much, minus the end. I would argue it's because it's Team 7 at the end, but largely because that chapter had them just do what they do: provide manpower. Do you know why in Chikara, anime filler arc, I complained about the side characters? Because they are there only to provide manpower. Noticed that I haven't talk about fan service for people to see them in action, but in reality, it's about the former. Why do you think I love Road To Ninja? Is it because it feeds NS to me? Is it because a nice moral story? While they are a part of it, but here's one of the main one: it's because it's very focused. It's not trying to provide you the usual Bleach movie style, where many other heroes would always appear in the end, or even some Naruto movies. It's all about delivering the message/story. It's not there to please the world on characters, essentially because this is how Kishi goes. All these stuff I have said doesn't mean I don't like side characters, it's just that they need to know their place.

 

Many has argued that perhaps Kishi should have cut down side characters when he first started. Many has argued that perhaps Kishi should have gave all of them a role in each arcs, but as I said above, it will fall in line of "taking too much time" and "random plot inserted". Do you want to know why other series work or how to make it work? Simple: story must be short; make an adventure story, though depends on how you do it; don't present them.

 

Short story as in not longer than, well now, would help because here's a thing. When you have one big focus/story, the novelty of the side characters doesn't die out since it's only one story. Take FMA for instance, there's really one story with acts or arcs if you want to call it, so you feel like you're in the same story. Yes, Naruto is one big story but it has multiple main boss battles, while in FMA, there are sub-bosses. It also helps that they're monthly manga, so the fight being dragged is almost non-existent. So let's say if FMA got more arcs, the novelty of side characters would wear off even if we like their attitudes and all, it's just there's no more plot relevant and anything to be done. In short, they ended when they got the chance. This also implies to Bleach, as the side characters usage has wear thin and now, it feels dragged realistically. Sure, fans would get what they want, but the package would look questionable.

 

An adventure story would help because you can always escape the zone that is home/base. Take One Piece for example, they're always moving and there's always new characters that are there for one arc only. Sure, some they recruit new members, but that's only because they want to fill the adventure with more exciting. Plus it does match up with their needs as pirates. But anyway, the point is that you always get new characters along the way and they would appear for like an update for small reason like, "What the world is thinking of this or that?" The only problem with adventure is that minus their powers, their character seems to stay the same, which is why I can understand the problem with people and see how some are turned off at times, but to each of their own. So to be honest, this wouldn't work with Naruto that well. In fact, it would seem Naruto would work best as monthly series when it comes to down it. I mean it can work with weekly as well, but it's like he has shift priority. Not change the story, but change on who needs the focus.

 

Don't present any of the side characters, well that's impossible at most cases, but you could do what the Avatar does: just have main characters. Yes, there are side characters, but they're there when they're really needed to be and that's why the show works unbelievably well. It's like an adventure story, only mixed with short story with real developments. I at times wish Naruto was like this but of course, Naruto is not traveling all day just to learn benders. Haha, that's a new story completely. But again, weekly does work, have the working system behind not involved. I'm not saying it's the system fault because clearly Kishi has more control than we all think he has, but it is known that he perhaps care for the fans that want more of side characters. That and mix of him caring too much of filling the blanks, even though some are open on their own but whatever. No, that doesn't mean he changed the story to make a whole new pairing, a whole new role, a whole new manga. It just means he wants to close the gap of his own story and of course, satisfy everyone along the way.

 

Before we close (Yes, finally!), the last question I want to address is why did Kishi do all this late? Well, whether there are actual clues/evidences of one thing and that is, "originally killing off some of the characters", this could implied on why he doesn't write them the way they are in older arcs. Again, these characters are made with one plot (unless you have that special trait, that is Shikamaru, which there are side characters that get this) and only provide support. So if the source is true, that would mean Kishi was going to be the usual writer, as in only have them for a bit and if you have nothing else, kill them or just sideline them for good. This also means that these characters are rarely guys that need attention but fans want them and Kishi seems to care. The main problem is what to do with them. The solution: repeat with a deeper resolution.

 

Sure, it's ok to go in-depth of that resolution, but it doesn't really scream, "New development that is different from previous." It doesn't make me like them more or less, depends. That's why I like Shikamaru's development from 649 because it's not about being the grown-up and be responsible, though it has some of that, but it's about backing up Naruto as his right-hand man. It's the nature of bond growth and it has worked up a lot since part 1 as well, so it's more natural than forced or repeats in a deeper resolution. I can see why people are annoyed with Hinata being repetitive and it's actually this arc that begins this, go figure.

 

So too long to read for many? Here's the point. The point is that these side characters aren't easy utilized or rather made to be doomed with criticism. Can you ever make it work in weekly manga series? To be honest and this is my opinion, but no. You can't get everyone or even most satisfied with the result because unless you have the requirements in above statements, then you are best to let them do little things, not that much. Note, the only one that can escape this in my view is Shikamaru, perhaps Team 10 since I find them larger than life compare to others, plus they can relate to the main characters such as Naruto and Sakura's childhood friends, and Sai as I see him a late entry to the main roster much like Wendy from Fairy Tail. All others, while I like them more or less, well they are doomed with criticism of taking space. While there is possibly more I can say, I would let you guys say something for me to respond to or anything.

 

Sorry for this LAP!

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, this usually applies mostly on battle manga, though it can be said for all. Comedy doesn't count really because you can just go all out stupid (funny) for all I care. Sports as well since everyone is already involved, though there are series that focus on one player throughout rather than the team.

 

Bolded:  What makes you say that?

 

As a weekly manga, or a manga in general, I get that side characters in stories don't usually get much focus.  True, authors can make the time to focus on them in a new story arc, but it's possible the story arc has not ties to the main story.  It may as well be filler.  Depending on how long it is, fans would complain how the author should wrap it up quick and get back to the main story. Fans can be fickle like that.  Then, there is the idea of why doesn't the author just put them in story arc that is canon related.  However, when a author doesn't do that, it's because the side character isn't meant to be there.  Basically, the character would have a minor role that he/ she would just be taking up space.  Well then, why not give them a more prominent role?  Because the author doesn't intend for it that way.  Sure, it may be blunt, but sometimes, the reason is just that simple.  The advantages of stories is that you can have characters appear at the stories convenience.  They appear when they are needed, and are off-screen when they are not.

 

Many examples appear in Naruto.  One glaring factor is why hasn't Tenten gotten a more active a role?  Simply because Kishimoto hasn't given her much focus.  Blunt, but true.  Could he have given her a more active role?  Of course, but he didn't simply because she wasn't a focus.  She's Neji's and Lee's teammate, weapon's meister, and Lee's potential love interest.  Again, could have Kishimoto have focused on her?  Yes, but in terms of plot, Kishimoto hasn't found a way to squeeze her in.  Shikamaru, as been mentioned, has gained much focus for a side character.  His arc didn't have to be so focused, but to the author, he made the call to do it because he did find a way to make his story relevant.  His arc included the Akatsuki, the manga's established villains.  He lost his teacher, which would later tie into future events with Jiraiya, his death, and the effect it would have on Naruto, the protagonist.  This focused expanded his character an gave the way to future events later, all that was very plot relevant.  Kishimoto decided to give Shikamaru this focus for his own reasons, and that he personal felt he could do and tie it into the storyline, and it that respect it was very successful.  Could he have given that role to someone else?  Probably.  Could he have done the same thing a second time with another character?  Probably, but once is fine and original.  A second gave risk of drawing out the story and repetition. Which brings my next point.

 

An author has regular time constraints and keep watch over story flow.  I know as fans we can get greedy asking for requests of more focus on this character, or wanting another arc, etc.  We usually don't place ourselves in the shoes of the author.  We don't have to worry about deadlines and story structure, but the author has to deal with this regularly.  You can imagine the stress that piles on.  The author must always focus on where the story has to go, how the characters have to ask, and make sure everything is going the way as intended.  Bluntly, the intended plan doesn't allign with our wishes, and that's okay.  It's the author's story, not ours.  I really respect authors that go the way they intended despite fan opinions and reaction to the contrary.  I know this isn't an absolute thing as the authors way is always the most beneficial one to the story.  Some outside critique is helpful, but just ignore the haters.

 

In the end, side characters are side characters.  They get the screen time they are allotted, and the fan base's reaction to their portrayal varies for each story and medium of release.  It's understandable they don't get as much focus as the protagonist.  In fact, they shouldn't.  They are characters meant to help expand the fictional world and even be allies to the protagonist, or even antagonist.  They can even be neutral to the story, such as the Ichiraku ramen owner in Naruto. 

Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 17 October 2013 - 03:33 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I just want to point out that the Chunin Exams arc (and by extension the Invasion of Konoha arc since they're conventionally grouped together) lasted from chapter #34 all the way up until #138. The Sasuke Retrieval arc ran from #172 to the end of P1 at #238. Now if you look at the manga comprehensively that may not seem like too much, but when you compress the window of content to just Part I you'll see that their involvement was seen throughout the majority of the chapters. 

 

The sum total of chapters from both of the above arcs is 170. That's roughly 70% of the first 238 chapters of the manga. The Rookies may not have had a widespread presence throughout P2, but in P1 they were easily some of the most integral members of the cast for much of the story as it unfolded. 

Well actually, you got to remember that in part 1, they come when the time truly comes. For example, let's take Chuunin Exam. First exam showcase the intro and the hint of their abilities. Exam 2 they're gone except Team 10 for developments for Sakura and Rock Lee showcase as well since he was hyped. Plus Sakura can't do it alone as she was still normal girl literally. Then you only have Team 8 to hype Gaara as the most dangerous man in the exam. Most of the exam 2 focus on Team 7. Preliminary exam is where we get all rookies involved for the first time. Then they're gone after all was done because it focused on hype of Gaara and Naruto's training. Then exam 3 which again involved them. Then, the invasion and all are gone except, you guessed it, Shikamaru, which applies to my point. Oh and Shino but that's only because we needed him to fight. Then after that, they're gone.

 

Also important to note that Shikamaru got much focused in part 1 than anyone in side characters, especially in the second arc with understanding about ladies and responsibilities. With others, it's like ok we got work to do. Shikamaru got focused when discussed with his dad that it was his job to have everyone come back alive which he cried. In other words, Kishi put more focus on Shikamaru more so than others. I understand that they are in those arcs but they're not around and kicking, whereas in this current arc, they are, hence the annoyance that is spreading on them in the latest chapter. Last thing, they're still there to provide support but never much to connect with the situation as oppose to help themselves such as Neji concluding his change thanks to Naruto or Kiba needed to grow up to protect Akamaru and others. So yeah...

 

About the bleach part. Honestly I was so frustrated with Bleach because it was one of the top 3 along with Naruto and One Piece. At one point I can even say that I liked Bleach more than Naruto but as time progressed the fillers annoyed the hell out of me because they had to relevance at all. With Naruto for example they actually let the fillers sync in with the manga so it doesn't seem out of place but with Bleach in the Orihime rescue arc where Ichigo fought Grimmjow there was a filler around that time and the filler took place in the real world, I was like wtf. I was confused and didn't know what was going on at all. Secondly, the development of the characters were horrible...to the point it made me  pull my hair out. I know Ichigo is the main character but all the development went to him and him mostly. With Naruto I can see that although much characters aren't fully developed kishi tried what he could with them. With Bleach orihime had the same techniques for the whole series until when she finally got a new technique(I was happy) which was waaaaaaaaaaaaay late. Thirdly, NO characters on Bleach dies unless it's a villain or some random captain or something. It's like all the main characters are immortal.  I don't even read the manga anymore, I stopped 3 years ago. I would only check to see if ichihime happens cause I like her character and that's my fav bleach pairing.

 

Rant finished but otherwise I agree with you're post.

I see what you mean. I was annoyed with the last long arc because it felt too slow, no much "All hell breaks loose" for a war, too dragged with many characters that make me questioned, "Why am I seeing this?" only to serve no purpose as it still fails, plot device literally on-screen, anti-climatic and rushed ending, unnecessary twists, and so on. Yeah I can see why people dropped the series. I don't drop, so I will live to see the ending. As for your pairing, well I don't know how to tell you this, but I do believe no pairing will be confirmed at all in the end the way they foreshadowed. I could be wrong but I won't be surprised.

 

Reply others later!

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 17 October 2013 - 03:46 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

Bolded:  What makes you say that?

 

As a weekly manga, or a manga in general, I get that side characters in stories don't usually get much focus.  True, authors can make the time to focus on them in a new story arc, but it's possible the story arc has not ties to the main story.  It may as well be filler.  Depending on how long it is, fans would complain how the author should wrap it up quick and get back to the main story. Fans can be fickle like that.  Then, there is the idea of why doesn't the author just put them in story arc that is canon related.  However, when a author doesn't do that, it's because the side character isn't meant to be there.  Basically, the character would have a minor role that he/ she would just be taking up space.  Well then, why not give them a more prominent role?  Because the author doesn't intend for it that way.  Sure, it may be blunt, but sometimes, the reason is just that simple.  The advantages of stories is that you can have characters appear at the stories convenience.  They appear when they are needed, and are off-screen when they are not.

 

Many examples appear in Naruto.  One glaring factor is why hasn't Tenten gotten a more active a role?  Simply because Kishimoto hasn't given her much focus.  Blunt, but true.  Could he have given her a more active role?  Of course, but he didn't simply because she wasn't a focus.  She's Neji's and Lee's teammate, weapon's meister, and Lee's potential love interest.  Again, could have Kishimoto have focused on her?  Yes, but in terms of plot, Kishimoto hasn't found a way to squeeze her in.  Shikamaru, as been mentioned, has gained much focus for a side character.  His arc didn't have to be so focused, but to the author, he made the call to do it because he did find a way to make his story relevant.  His arc included the Akatsuki, the manga's established villains.  He lost his teacher, which would later tie into future events with Jiraiya, his death, and the effect it would have on Naruto, the protagonist.  This focused expanded his character an gave the way to future events later, all that was very plot relevant.  Kishimoto decided to give Shikamaru this focus for his own reasons, and that he personal felt he could do and tie it into the storyline, and it that respect it was very successful.  Could he have given that role to someone else?  Probably.  Could he have done the same thing a second time with another character?  Probably, but once is fine and original.  A second gave risk of drawing out the story and repetition. Which brings my next point.

 

An author has regular time constraints and keep watch over story flow.  I know as fans we can get greedy asking for requests of more focus on this character, or wanting another arc, etc.  We usually don't place ourselves in the shoes of the author.  We don't have to worry about deadlines and story structure, but the author has to deal with this regularly.  You can imagine the stress that piles on.  The author must always focus on where the story has to go, how the characters have to ask, and make sure everything is going the way as intended.  Bluntly, the intended plan doesn't allign with our wishes, and that's okay.  It's the author's story, not ours.  I really respect authors that go the way they intended despite fan opinions and reaction to the contrary.  I know this isn't an absolute thing as the authors way is always the most beneficial one to the story.  Some outside critique is helpful, but just ignore the haters.

 

In the end, side characters are side characters.  They get the screen time they are allotted, and the fan base's reaction to their portrayal varies for each story and medium of release.  It's understandable they don't get as much focus as the protagonist.  In fact, they shouldn't.  They are characters meant to help expand the fictional world and even be allies to the protagonist, or even antagonist.  They can even be neutral to the story, such as the Ichiraku ramen owner in Naruto. 

I mean that Bleach has hit bottom 5 ranking in Jump couple of times in a volume set, which is scary. Don't worry though, they're far from danger, but they should be aware before they could damage further.

 

Well said. I guess it's because it took this chapter to realize the problem. Let's say like this, if the story is about a ninja war and Naruto (series) is cut tremendously short that it only has two villains: Madara and Obito. Naruto is about to enter war, but not without intense training with K9. Then after just getting to know them, right away we enter this war and then finally hit the event of 651. When the help of his friends happened, you would see it more special because now only you're still fresh from friendship developments from the past events,  but you can really buy that they worked this hard to reach to this final breakthrough. It's because the novelty is still fresh. But after this long, this is one challenge that people needs to answer: do you care?

[BlueStarSaber]

Well said. I guess it's because it took this chapter to realize the problem. Let's say like this, if the story is about a ninja war and Naruto (series) is cut tremendously short that it only has two villains: Madara and Obito. Naruto is about to enter war, but not without intense training with K9. Then after just getting to know them, right away we enter this war and then finally hit the event of 651. When the help of his friends happened, you would see it more special because now only you're still fresh from friendship developments from the past events,  but you can really buy that they worked this hard to reach to this final breakthrough. It's because the novelty is still fresh. But after this long, this is one challenge that people needs to answer: do you care?

 

Well I think what the K11 plus Sai, minus Sakura and Neji did in 651 was coming full circle in a way of what they all said about fighting alongside Naruto in 573.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

Well I think what the K11 plus Sai, minus Sakura and Neji did in 651 was coming full circle in a way of what they all said about fighting alongside Naruto in 573.

I know, but a lot of people are asking themselves why is it needed if they haven't done much, with exception but still. I didn't mind about it. I'll tell you this. It all depends on the following chapter to carry this moment and see where it stands. The follow-up needs to make it work or break.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

A big problem is that Kishi just hasn't made me care about the K9 side characters. Neji and Lee were pretty good characters in part one, but they're the only members of the K9 that had any real presence besides Shikamaru. The only one I consider to have any real relevance in part two is Shikamaru, and by extension somewhat Ino and Choji, and in order to be fair and unbiased I suppose I should count Hinata too, though she hasn't been much of a recurring character until this arc. The only way Neji could gain some relevance was by dying, and Hinata just rode on top of that, and yet she still doesn't appear to have changed much. And now to have the other rookies contribute in any notable measure, they have to leech off Naruto's own power.

It is just a poor, nonsensical attempt to give some secondary characters a limelight that they truly haven't done anything to deserve. Tenten and Shino really aren't even at the level to be considered secondary, they may as well be fodder. Overall, I find the K9 unremarkable and uninteresting, Kishi may as well just left them in the background as he's done for the entirety of part two than trying to force them out to the forefront so late in the game. I don't intend to come across as hating on these characters, it's just, "too little, too late."

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 17 October 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

A big problem is that Kishi just hasn't made me care about the K9 side characters. Neji and Lee were pretty good characters in part one, but they're the only members of the K9 that had any real presence besides Shikamaru. The only one I consider to have any real relevance in part two is Shikamaru, and by extension somewhat Ino and Choji, and in order to be fair and unbiased I suppose I should count Hinata too, though she hasn't been much of a recurring character until this arc. The only way Neji could gain some relevance was by dying, and Hinata just rode on top of that, and yet she still doesn't appear to have changed much. And now to have the other rookies contribute in any notable measure, they have to leech off Naruto's own power.

It is just a poor, nonsensical attempt to give some secondary characters a limelight that they truly haven't done anything to deserve. Tenten and Shino really aren't even at the level to be considered secondary, they may as well be fodder. Overall, I find the K9 unremarkable and uninteresting, Kishi may as well just left them in the background as he's done for the entirety of part two than trying to force them out to the forefront so late in the game. I don't intend to come across as hating on these characters, it's just, "too little, too late."

Here's the thing: they're actually really good characters, but their roles are done a long time ago, that it doesn't need more of them anymore or at least feel the need to have a plot. That's the problem. It's like a scenario of using the same people grows old and this applies to all anime/manga. Like, don't do the same joke; don't do the same theme; don't do anything that you already done. Even with expanding, though jokes can get away with it, it still grows old. So, by this point, it just there to drag. Look, I don't mind 651 for making them as a symbol, which this is more of Naruto and friendship, rather than Naruto and friends. That's where people realized those side characters didn't do anything. Well, that's because they haven't, they're there for Naruto to create a point.

 

As for the exceptions, the reason why I didn't mind for Hinata in that arc specifically is because it flows well with the theme of how Naruto has become an important person to the village. Plus, they don't drag the arc long, they're there of what they need to do: provide the fire power. Kakashi is a main character, so we care for him because of how we follow his story throughout, so no, he don't count. Now, well, it's like we keep going back to them because well, we just do. Instead of just do support mode, we keep coming to hear their insight of their own. It doesn't help that we had to witness other characters that were new (Darui), which is the arc lasted way too long.

 

My point is that these side characters were there only to get Naruto's message backups. They're not there to try to steal a spotlight. They're done as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that can help them is dive deeper of the same topic. Team 10 at least dive in more aspect of themselves such as becoming the adult of their own home and for Shikamaru, becoming Naruto's adviser, while others, mainly Hinata, still in part 1 process. So that slows down the arc. Basically, you shouldn't expect them to do spectacular moments or anything significant in terms of power or something that screams, "I stole the show, fool!"

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Here's the thing: they're actually really good characters, but their roles are done a long time ago, that it doesn't need more of them anymore or at least feel the need to have a plot. That's the problem. It's like a scenario of using the same people grows old and this applies to all anime/manga. Like, don't do the same joke; don't do the same theme; don't do anything that you already done. Even with expanding, though jokes can get away with it, it still grows old. So, by this point, it just there to drag. Look, I don't mind 651 for making them as a symbol, which this is more of Naruto and friendship, rather than Naruto and friends. That's where people realized those side characters didn't do anything. Well, that's because they haven't, they're there for Naruto to create a point.

 

As for the exceptions, the reason why I didn't mind for Hinata in that arc specifically is because it flows well with the theme of how Naruto has become an important person to the village. Plus, they don't drag the arc long, they're there of what they need to do: provide the fire power. Kakashi is a main character, so we care for him because of how we follow his story throughout, so no, he don't count. Now, well, it's like we keep going back to them because well, we just do. Instead of just do support mode, we keep coming to hear their insight of their own. It doesn't help that we had to witness other characters that were new (Darui), which is the arc lasted way too long.

 

My point is that these side characters were there only to get Naruto's message backups. They're not there to try to steal a spotlight. They're done as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that can help them is dive deeper of the same topic. Team 10 at least dive in more aspect of themselves such as becoming the adult of their own home and for Shikamaru, becoming Naruto's adviser, while others, mainly Hinata, still in part 1 process. So that slows down the arc. Basically, you shouldn't expect them to do spectacular moments or anything significant in terms of power or something that screams, "I stole the show, fool!"

 

Some of them are good characters, like I mentioned Shikamaru, Neji and Lee. But others I find just repetitive (Hinata) or irrelevant (Tenten), Shino is kind of just there and Kiba is boring, I kind of like Ino and I don't think much of Choji either way. I understand their role in this recent chapter and others, I just don't like it, it's as simple as that.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

Some of them are good characters, like I mentioned Shikamaru, Neji and Lee. But others I find just repetitive (Hinata) or irrelevant (Tenten), Shino is kind of just there and Kiba is boring, I kind of like Ino and I don't think much of Choji either way. I understand their role in this recent chapter and others, I just don't like it, it's as simple as that.

Ok, scratch that. Some are but those are the one that are mainly worked on, not used to fight Naruto, like Kiba. TenTen, yeah, after you said that, now I got second thought. Lol. But seriously, the one that you know that got worked on, most notably Shikamaru, are the interesting one. But here's the thing, these side characters are like a one arc deal. In One Piece, we always get new characters, but they will be done when the arc is done because they're complete. So basically, think K9 as one arc deal while one or few would be lucky to get a higher status, who happened to be Shikamaru, so he would continue on to get a special treatment. If the character is done, they will become a tool, sad to say really. In this case, they're tool for Naruto to get the message of friendship across. That's why many of us are fine that Sakura was out. She has more dignity than this and I'm not referring to her being more than friend.

[sushi.]

Kishi made me think in this chapter he does not know how to make use of them anymore in terms of combat. I can understand why, because Naruto is so OP that they can't keep up. He can do most of the fighting by himself, and he could've just made shadow clones in this chapter. He is seriously 80% of the combat force, then there is Sasuke and.. the others.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Kishi made me think in this chapter he does not know how to make use of them anymore in terms of combat. I can understand why, because Naruto is so OP that they can't keep up. He can do most of the fighting by himself, and he could've just made shadow clones in this chapter. He is seriously 80% of the combat force, then there is Sasuke and.. the others.

I think the main part that literally takes them away is not the OP part in my opinion, it's the requirement, and that is senjutsu only. That alone told everyone else to buzz off. That's when I said to myself, which I haven't here, that "See, not all the time you need to fight. Because if that's all you can do, you will get sidelined easily." In realistic sense, at least Sakura is still in active role. It's better than "What are we supposed to do?" It's like karma if you ask me. Also, it's like the old saying. "You are the kitten, but if something happens that you don't have, then you're kitten."

[DattebayoXShannaro]

 

Some of them are good characters, like I mentioned Shikamaru, Neji and Lee. But others I find just repetitive (Hinata) or irrelevant (Tenten), Shino is kind of just there and Kiba is boring, I kind of like Ino and I don't think much of Choji either way. I understand their role in this recent chapter and others, I just don't like it, it's as simple as that.

 

Unfortunately, Shino is written to just be there, and is used for comedic elements for when he's ignored (in the anime more than the original manga).  Sadly, Tenten was never a focus as I mentioned in my previous post.  It's unfortunate as her story arc would be quite interesting.

 

Kishi made me think in this chapter he does not know how to make use of them anymore in terms of combat. I can understand why, because Naruto is so OP that they can't keep up. He can do most of the fighting by himself, and he could've just made shadow clones in this chapter. He is seriously 80% of the combat force, then there is Sasuke and.. the others.

 

He didn't need clones at all.  He already formed the Rasengans in the tails.  He could have launched the jutsu from them just as easily.

 

I agree, in the war, the alliance heavily needed to rely on Naruto.  I can only guess whether Kishimoto intended for Naruto to be this needed in the war, but it's undeniable.  Whether this will be used for future reference or just unintended writing leaving a bad aftertaste remains to be seen.  Sai's words could come back to haunt everyone as he said, "They rely on Naruto too much."  That's another reason I would like for plot purposes only that Naruto is gravely injured whether by Sasuke's betrayal or another reason to the point they think he can't be saved, and actually have to come to terms to having to fight without him.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't mind the factor of relying on Naruto, but as far as these guys go, they could have gone a different route to exploit their sacrifice. The reason why I still like that Sakura is still doing her thing because it's still contributed to Naruto, only not heavily relying on him, actually hoping that everyone in the battlefield to win. You don't hear her say, "Go, Naruto!" rather "Everyone, go!" That's contributing in the right way. The others are there to push and while the symbol is nice, it's still relying on him. Again, it could have done better.

[Inferno180]

Its not really that kishi made too many characters, some have been given more prominence than others if we count out team 7. I mean if we look at all the leaf characters you will see the hiearchy of importance out of the K11.

 

Most important/mains: Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke, reason? Hero, Heroine, and anti-hero/temp antagonist. Obviously they get the main focus no question.

 

Major focus: Shikmaru mostly, a couple fights, majorly centered during Asuma's death, grew to his role in the 4th shinobi war. Sai follows this, he is a major character, learning about the need for bonds or rather sai is becoming more human with his own emotions. Finally Neji, Neji has been given more forefront development on his team than any other. A few fights to a death, his changed perspective makes him much more of a major character than his cousin.

 

Moderate focus: These guys are seen every now and then, they have fair amounts of time.

Ino and Choji- mainly tied to what Shikamaru does but they have their own moments too. Ino had her time in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc along with her father's death. Choji had his own fight against one of the sound 4 and grew mentally better over what everyone told him. Generally they are both in and out but corrlate with Shikamaru due to the Ino-Shika-Cho stuff.

 

Kiba and Akamaru- Out of team 8, Kiba is the most unique cause well, he has Akamaru tagging along the whole time. He isn't needed to be tied to anything major, he has a way of doing his own short things even if just comic outbursts. He was fairly used, having his own fight with Naruto, the sound 4, and a couple other minor events.

 

Lee- Lee has his own story of the ninja who cannot use ninjutsu. He kinda fluxs in and out of importance. He was prominent around the chunin exams, vs Kimimaro, and during the kazekage rescue arc. Had a major event with Neji's death being at the forefront of the assault with Naruto. Though a potential character, kishi has left him just self stable despite the limited usage.

 

Minor: These are characters who hardly pop up, generally very limited

 

Hinata: Yes Hinata is in here, despite 2 major moments, she has 2 high moments but not enough consistent development, aka simple screentime or simple development which can simply just be stuff like talking during downtimes or we see something else from her. Hardest part of all, her character is dependent on Naruto and Neji, just because she loves Naruto, this is also what kinda limits her character. Kishi had a lot of more story potential he could have used for her, but with Neji gone, the only thing keeping her tied to the story is Naruto, unless he decides to put the Hyuga inhertiance back up for Hinata to lead, maybe things can work then. But its just too far too late, she hasn't had a major importance in the gap between the end of Neji's fight with Naruto and her moment against pain. Thats over 300 chapters of nothing! This is a reason why Hinata is minor, 2 major events makes her a bit higher than Kiba in terms of importance like she can be the most prominant member of team 8 shown, but when it all averages out, the 2 moments she has cannot coverup all the stuff she has missed or doesn't have. Hinata is basically developed more in fillers and in importance to the manga, she may be more of a token love interest character if nothing else.

 

Shino: Shino is an enigma, he has practically no fights on screen in the manga save against Orochimaru's henchman Zaku. He is rather a mob type character, always with a crowd. He has some minor remarks and he has skills, the databook makes this clear. Shino is cool and has a unique power, but he is just unaddressed. He has a few fillers to show, technically he does have a canon fight with kankuro, just offscreen but the filler in the anime shows this so its okay to a degree. Shino is good but not used.

 

Tenten: basically the most cyrptic and unknown character of all. She has fights in the manga, but offscreen. They are addressed in fillers. Tenten is just there to be there, nothing else. You can miss her without impacting the story. She did get to use the sage's fan but there's basically nothing else.

 

In the end kishi did give a different amount of focus to each character, but this was better than Oda's in onepiece where every character needs long amounts of screentime just to get a point of development. Kishi put in a lot but didn't focus on them all equally.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Its not really that kishi made too many characters, some have been given more prominence than others if we count out team 7. I mean if we look at all the leaf characters you will see the hiearchy of importance out of the K11.
 
Most important/mains: Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke, reason? Hero, Heroine, and anti-hero/temp antagonist. Obviously they get the main focus no question.
 
Major focus: Shikmaru mostly, a couple fights, majorly centered during Asuma's death, grew to his role in the 4th shinobi war. Sai follows this, he is a major character, learning about the need for bonds or rather sai is becoming more human with his own emotions. Finally Neji, Neji has been given more forefront development on his team than any other. A few fights to a death, his changed perspective makes him much more of a major character than his cousin.
 
Moderate focus: These guys are seen every now and then, they have fair amounts of time.
Ino and Choji- mainly tied to what Shikamaru does but they have their own moments too. Ino had her time in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc along with her father's death. Choji had his own fight against one of the sound 4 and grew mentally better over what everyone told him. Generally they are both in and out but corrlate with Shikamaru due to the Ino-Shika-Cho stuff.
 
Kiba and Akamaru- Out of team 8, Kiba is the most unique cause well, he has Akamaru tagging along the whole time. He isn't needed to be tied to anything major, he has a way of doing his own short things even if just comic outbursts. He was fairly used, having his own fight with Naruto, the sound 4, and a couple other minor events.
 
Lee- Lee has his own story of the ninja who cannot use ninjutsu. He kinda fluxs in and out of importance. He was prominent around the chunin exams, vs Kimimaro, and during the kazekage rescue arc. Had a major event with Neji's death being at the forefront of the assault with Naruto. Though a potential character, kishi has left him just self stable despite the limited usage.
 
Minor: These are characters who hardly pop up, generally very limited
 
Hinata: Yes Hinata is in here, despite 2 major moments, she has 2 high moments but not enough consistent development, aka simple screentime or simple development which can simply just be stuff like talking during downtimes or we see something else from her. Hardest part of all, her character is dependent on Naruto and Neji, just because she loves Naruto, this is also what kinda limits her character. Kishi had a lot of more story potential he could have used for her, but with Neji gone, the only thing keeping her tied to the story is Naruto, unless he decides to put the Hyuga inhertiance back up for Hinata to lead, maybe things can work then. But its just too far too late, she hasn't had a major importance in the gap between the end of Neji's fight with Naruto and her moment against pain. Thats over 300 chapters of nothing! This is a reason why Hinata is minor, 2 major events makes her a bit higher than Kiba in terms of importance like she can be the most prominant member of team 8 shown, but when it all averages out, the 2 moments she has cannot coverup all the stuff she has missed or doesn't have. Hinata is basically developed more in fillers and in importance to the manga, she may be more of a token love interest character if nothing else.
 
Shino: Shino is an enigma, he has practically no fights on screen in the manga save against Orochimaru's henchman Zaku. He is rather a mob type character, always with a crowd. He has some minor remarks and he has skills, the databook makes this clear. Shino is cool and has a unique power, but he is just unaddressed. He has a few fillers to show, technically he does have a canon fight with kankuro, just offscreen but the filler in the anime shows this so its okay to a degree. Shino is good but not used.
 
Tenten: basically the most cyrptic and unknown character of all. She has fights in the manga, but offscreen. They are addressed in fillers. Tenten is just there to be there, nothing else. You can miss her without impacting the story. She did get to use the sage's fan but there's basically nothing else.
 
In the end kishi did give a different amount of focus to each character, but this was better than Oda's in onepiece where every character needs long amounts of screentime just to get a point of development. Kishi put in a lot but didn't focus on them all equally.

That makes sense. I'm only saying that the reason why they're here with not much plot is because they're not supposed to, especially when they're done already. People asked too much when that shouldn't be the case. Just be glad that they're still around for amusement of characteristics. Sure, if you want more battles, fine, but remember, they can slow down the plot. I'm not really saying get rid of them, but best for most case to leave as a soldier figure that helps others, not really trying to be a plot relevant with one wants this still and such. I'm fine with the recent event now, though wish they say something, so yeah, just understand where they're placed in.

[Derock]

Umm Lee had more focus. You forgot about his "almost" retired event after the Chunin Exams.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Umm Lee had more focus. You forgot about his "almost" retired event after the Chunin Exams.

Yeah but once you got him healed, not much to go from there. The thing is that these characters have different moral/theme/problems, but you got the idea anyway.