15 replies to this topic

[Strangelove]

http://www.newsday.c...-fail-1.2554085


http://news.scotsman...arns.6658950.jp


So the question is...

Will this week, the world face its very first nuclear war?

[Insurrection]

How is this different from the Are we headed for another war? thread? Besides, Nuclear War is very bad for business compared to conventional war. But war is bad business and China does not like bad business.

North Korean nukes can reach as far as California by estimation, no further. But the fact they're threatening nuclear war is bad, signals despration, fear or a lack of understanding.

Edited by Insurrection, 20 December 2010 - 06:14 AM.

[Strangelove]

Oh well...at the very least they seem to be at a standstill. But i think NK is going to continue doing this over and over and over again. Making threats i mean.

[alexander]

Oh hell, what an mess, now, I doubt the tension will just stop this time, but if NK try an nuclear attack, they are most likely to be obliterated from earth by mundial blacklash, but then againg this would create tension with NK supporters like China and this would end up in a chain effect

[Zatren6]

If you ask me it's just going to be a battle of "I'M GONNA" "WELL I'M GONNA...". NK knows that if they start anything that people will be ALL OVER them. Even they don't take nuclear war lightly. I'm not saying it won't ever come down to that, but I am suggesting that NK is, as they always have been, talking the talk, at least at this point. Even China is iffy with NK. They may be crazy, but they're not THAT truly irrational.

Will we see it war in our lifetime? In the next ten years? It pains me to say that it's quite possible. In the next few months? I think its still a war of words.

Edited by Zatren6, 21 December 2010 - 03:44 AM.

[True]

I'm going to join up with the Brotherhood of Steel.

[Insurrection]

@True

If it does turn into fallout I'm goin to Vegas.

But for you, you would have to wait for the insubordination from the US military, then two hundered and fifty years before you can do that. Might I suggest the vault where the experiment would be cryogenically freezing....I HAVE AN IDEA FOR A FALLOUT MOVIE!!!

Anyway, I'd give this Korea thing a month or so, see if North Korea attacks after getting what they want again.

Edited by Insurrection, 21 December 2010 - 06:48 AM.

[Strangelove]

@True

If it does turn into fallout I'm goin to Vegas.

But for you, you would have to wait for the insubordination from the US military, then two hundered and fifty years before you can do that. Might I suggest the vault where the experiment would be cryogenically freezing....I HAVE AN IDEA FOR A FALLOUT MOVIE!!!

Anyway, I'd give this Korea thing a month or so, see if North Korea attacks after getting what they want again.

I may have to take out one of my Zombie Plans earlier than i expected.

[Derock]

Lord have mercy, you people...

*and I'd seen Fallout, not a good sight to see in the nearby future*

[Kamina-Yoshi]

Hey, I'm the first one to leap on board if there's a revolution in the United States for a monarchy. Hell, I'd submit my name first on the list to fight for the right to be king in a one-on-one death-match in the tundra. And, if given the chance, I would not hesitate to use military force to its fullest extent, even to the point of complete and total war. No mercy.

However, I would be damned if I would ever, ever use a nuclear weapon. These monstrosities of past human blips of intelligence or lack there-of are basically genocidal and regionocidal clouds of death, with absolutely no positive out-come besides total annihilation. You cannot claim the land from a nuclear attack, and you cannot gain anything from it besides animosity and a heaping load of nukes shoved up your tail-end in result. Kim Jong Il has, maybe, one good missile on his hands. One. We've got thousands due to our inferiority complex. Say Kim gets tired of our satellite states in Japan and Korea; what's to stop him from nuking us and going into hiding and starting yet another guerrilla campaign that we cannot fight due to our childish need to protect everything? We'll simply get boondocked and utterly humiliated once again. There's basically nothing to stop him but trying to find a good fall-out shelter and issuing the orders and hoping they'll be carried out to the letter.

We might as well walk into it and get it over with. The sooner these weapons are outlawed and our nation penalized to the point of dismantlement, the better for the rest of the races of man-kind.

[Sir Whirly]

[font="Book Antiqua"] Say Kim gets tired of our satellite states in Japan and Korea; what's to stop him from nuking us and going into hiding and starting yet another guerrilla campaign that we cannot fight due to our childish need to protect everything? We'll simply get boondocked and utterly humiliated once again. There's basically nothing to stop him but trying to find a good fall-out shelter and issuing the orders and hoping they'll be carried out to the letter.

Kim may be power hungry despotic ruler but he is not stupid. He nukes anything on America and that entire country is reduced to rubble and dust. We wouldn't bother with an Army. South Korea could clean up if it really wanted to.

[Nate River]

Kim may be power hungry despotic ruler but he is not stupid. He nukes anything on America and that entire country is reduced to rubble and dust. We wouldn't bother with an Army. South Korea could clean up if it really wanted to.

Three things:

1) I'm not sure he believes he has to actually nuke anyone to get what he wants. He may just believe that the threat is sufficient and will keep sabre rattling until someone does something about it.

2) Your scenario requires that he actually care that his country was reduced to dust. I don't think it's outside the relm of possibility that he doesn't care what happens to his people or if they get nuked. Look at the way he treats them now.

3) He would have to believe that the US or some other nation would actually retaliate in such a way if he didn't. There are plenty of reasons why he might believe they would not do so.

As far as the South cleaning up...you have to keep in mind that one reason the North getting nukes is such a big deal is that that can easily nuke or threaten to nuke Seoul. This was one of the big arguments for attempting to disarm him before he got such weapons. Even if they can't hit the U.S. they're ability to threaten the South with such an attack will make them think twice as well as any potential allies.

Second, they (along with the combined UN force) nearly did just that in the early stages of the Korean War, but were pushed back when the Chinese got involved. China seemed unhappy with the latest North Korean actions, but that doesn't guarantee the Chinese won't step up if the South invades. On the other hand, China could be a big deterrent to using them. If he uses them, would the Chinese conitnue to back him up in the wave of the backlash? The could just as easily say, you made your bed, now lie in it.

[Lid]

Think Sly Stone should make another Rocky movie where he beats a juiced up Korean fighter and then make a speech about how everybody can change?

[Kamina-Yoshi]

Think Sly Stone should make another Rocky movie where he beats a juiced up Korean fighter and then make a speech about how everybody can change?

1. No thanks. I want a new Judge Dredd movie, though.

2. They can't change. Stop pushing hippie logic.

3. I like pie as a breakfast treat when it becomes critical that I have at least one piece before it goes bad in the garage.

[Sir Whirly]

Three things:

1) I'm not sure he believes he has to actually nuke anyone to get what he wants. He may just believe that the threat is sufficient and will keep sabre rattling until someone does something about it.

2) Your scenario requires that he actually care that his country was reduced to dust. I don't think it's outside the relm of possibility that he doesn't care what happens to his people or if they get nuked. Look at the way he treats them now.

3) He would have to believe that the US or some other nation would actually retaliate in such a way if he didn't. There are plenty of reasons why he might believe they would not do so.

As far as the South cleaning up...you have to keep in mind that one reason the North getting nukes is such a big deal is that that can easily nuke or threaten to nuke Seoul. This was one of the big arguments for attempting to disarm him before he got such weapons. Even if they can't hit the U.S. they're ability to threaten the South with such an attack will make them think twice as well as any potential allies.

Second, they (along with the combined UN force) nearly did just that in the early stages of the Korean War, but were pushed back when the Chinese got involved. China seemed unhappy with the latest North Korean actions, but that doesn't guarantee the Chinese won't step up if the South invades. On the other hand, China could be a big deterrent to using them. If he uses them, would the Chinese conitnue to back him up in the wave of the backlash? The could just as easily say, you made your bed, now lie in it.

1. I doubt he will either.
2. Can't rule what isn't there. He may not care but if there is no country to rule, then he loses what little power he does have.
3. It's possible. A nuclear attack on the west coast would kill millions, especially if it was in LA. Do you think there would be any tree hugging ideals in that regard? I don't think a nuclear response would happen, just because of our allies in SK and Japan. We wouldn't want them to feel the effects of the fall out but we do have non nuclear armaments that can take out an entire street block and a far superior air force along with our naval might.

Personally, I don't think China would get involved. It's not very good business sense for their country. They, despite the fact of a socialist government, have very much so embraced the current capitalist views ever since they integrated Hong Kong. To them, having us on their side, so we can continue to sell our debt and buy their products means more to them than some kitten hole country.

[Nate River]

3. It's possible. A nuclear attack on the west coast would kill millions, especially if it was in LA. Do you think there would be any tree hugging ideals in that regard? I don't think a nuclear response would happen, just because of our allies in SK and Japan. We wouldn't want them to feel the effects of the fall out but we do have non nuclear armaments that can take out an entire street block and a far superior air force along with our naval might.

My point was not so much about whether the US would or would not do that, but what Kim Jong Il believes the US will do. After all the anti-proliferation noise Obama has made I have trouble seeing him nuke NK even in retaliation when he likely has the fire power to bomb into oblivion using conventional arms. Given the potential for a trading of nukes and NK's proximity to China I have some difficulty seeing any administration using that in response if they believe conventional weapons will do the trick.

Personally, I don't think China would get involved. It's not very good business sense for their country. They, despite the fact of a socialist government, have very much so embraced the current capitalist views ever since they integrated Hong Kong. To them, having us on their side, so we can continue to sell our debt and buy their products means more to them than some kitten hole country.

The Chinese are communist not socialist. And it's as you say, economically they want the growth the capitalism can bring, but haven't followed that up with political freedom.