Second, I want to make an open call to all members of this forum. I know and I'm sure that you also have issues which are concerning you (I both sent PMs to members and I made an open request for anyone to address me regarding anything you want me to discuss in this thread, so feel free to speak your mind). Of course, when it comes to this thread, I want everyone to be respectful and address the issues without resorting to anything that can break the rules of the forum (so no cursing, bashing, or anything of the like). Also, keep in mind that our community is a bit on edge lately, so as you write your words, double check your words. One thing I noticed on the forum is that, when people are on edge, they can be easily offended by words even if that was not your intention. I do not want that happening here.
Finally, I have seen how threads like these can either easily go off-topic, ignored or turn into a bashing fest. Do your best to prevent this from happening. I trust all of you and I'm sure that we can do this.
With that said I want to discuss the reason as to why I'm starting this thread.
There have been numerous times of some discussions leading up to disagreements between members. Now, it is normal for people to agree or disagree with different points of view. That's actually what makes a debate.. a debate. However, many of these discussions have been ending up in members generalizing opinions, one party accusing the other of being too extreme in their point of view, and even bashing and flaming between members. This has created a division between members of the community and have even led some people to feel discouraged from posting at all in the forums (myself included). I can easily mention at least a 10-12 members who have been discouraged from posting here in the forums.
"But Shadow Wolf, this community has about... (almost 400 pages x 20 members per page = 8000) 8000 members, so 12 members is not even a considerable amount of members. Members come and go and the discussions are still going..."
True, but we also have to keep in mind that these members are actually people who have been here for a long time and who have also contributed to the forums. No, I'm not making them more important than others. On the contrary, every member is equally valuable in the forums and thus, we have to worry when some of them begin to disappear.
I can't recall the exact origin of this series of events (which have led to warnings, concerns from some of the mods, and even the ban of some members). Some people say that this began since chapter 615... others say that this is an issue that's constantly happening, but that now it has gotten serious... the point is that this is happening and cannot be overlooked.
Let me show you the evidence of the friction in the forum. This is happening in many threads, but I'm going to use the very chapter thread as reference (I'm going to erase the names for the sake of preventing misunderstanding. What I want is to bring up to light the fears and frictions of the members):
Now, why do I first point this out? Because this shows three things:
1-Some members are afraid of people who support NH to visit the forums. If I can give a reason is because they have felt that the NH fans who have signed up for the forums have been subtly provoking the NS fans. I don't think all the NH fans are like this, and in my opinion, the NH fans who provoke others are just a bad example of people from the NH community. However, this is only me. So I have to ask you guys: do you feel the same way towards the NH community?
2-Believe it or not, this actually discourages NH fans from visiting the forums. We want to welcome everyone to the forums, and post like these might actually discourage people from visiting, because they might fear getting picked up by the people here.
3-This can even create friction between fellow member of the forums. The following is an example:
So when a fellow member of the forum tries to make an NH fan feel at ease, he gets picked up by other members. Again, this is not a generalization, but rather an example of some events which have occurred.
So we have our first issue there. Now, if there was only one issue, then things could be solved out smoothly. But that's not the case. There are several issues going on lately. Let's take a look at another one:
This issue is a bit sensitive, so bear with me as I speak this one. Even though it has been OK to agree and disagree with particular points regarding the chapters, comments like this one are easily taken as a discouraging post. It has a stronger impact when we refer to this chapter because after a long time, Kishimoto has finally shown Sakura in a chapter. This clearly lifts the hopes of the Heaven and Earth community. And comments like these make people who are happy with seeing Sakura feel offended and hurt. This is a NaruSaku community, and even though every member is welcome (be an NS fan or not), we have to keep in mind that the majority of this community are NS fans. Comments like these can be taken offensively and this can be the seed the produces friction between the members. Why do I say this? Let's see how a fellow member replied to this particular post:
So my question is: Has anyone feel offended by comments like these? Have you felt like some comments are subtle hints of bashing towards the general NS community? Again, I need you to express your concerns on this thread because your words will be the indicator of this issue being serious.
This topic is related to the previous one, its the example of how a seed can grow into a tree:
Normally, this would just be a normal complain from a fellow member... but as the thread progresses, you will notice that this message is repeated over and over again...
Sakura gets screentime: I see people whinning and complaining.
I could keep quoting, but I think this makes the point. Basically, it seems that there is always a member or two who simply reduce every chapter to a "waste of time". As far as I've seen, is not always the same members since everyone has a different reaction to each chapter. However, that said, it can be pretty offensive to call a chapter a waste of time, especially when you have a large group of people who actually like the chapter. Now, I have to quote this, since this is actually a good point:
Indeed. Everyone has a different opinion. However, there is one particular point with many members seem to overlook (I have also done this myself sometimes). Yes, you are free to express your opinion and your reception of the chapter, but you also have to keep in mind how you use your words so they are not taken as an offense or a whining. As I said at the beginning of this thread, we have to be careful with how we express ourselves, as it can be take the wrong way. And in all honesty, in this last chapter, isn't it logical that people will be clearly offended if you call it a waste of time? Don't you think that it will be easily taken as "whining"? The way we pick our words and our general behavior indicate what kind of person we are. And I have to admit that some members in the community have been perceived as people who only know how to give negative reviews of the chapters and the discussions on this thread. And now I ask to my fellow members: have you also felt this way? if so, what can be done to solve this issue?
This particular post caught my attention and I want to use it as reference for what I'm about to express in the following point. I'm going to quote the person this time because it is actually an admin speaking:
However, we will not ask them to refrain from expressing their opinion because others do not like it. People should not be required to shut up because you or anyone else cannot deal with what they have to say. If they stay within the forum rules they can post.
and this one:
You are entitled to share your opinion of the chapter, but this is not a venue for you to call other members names. Both sides of this argument have had people agree with them.
For those who say others are being too positive:
Not every chapter has to be an in your face NS moment. I am fully prepared for Naruto to end without NS, but that doesn't stop me from hoping for good things. It might seem delusional, but this is a work of fiction. I am reading it for fun and I will have fun no matter what. Even though Sakura made one comment and said Shannaro, I was happy.
For those who say others are being too negative:
People are human. We get frustrated. A lot of us want NS really badly and are saddened when Sakura doesn't get the focus a lot of us want her to get. Sometimes we prepare for the 'worst' (some pairing that interferes with NS) so that we don't jinx ourselves. We don't know what Kishi is going to write and it could really be ANYTHING.
Agree to disagree. Walk away if you aren't getting anywhere. Almost all of us want NS to happen. Let's not forget that.
These two posts are proof that the admins and mods are actually doing what they can to make the members stick to the rules and do their best to have a proper debate. But again, we have to be very careful of how we express ourselves. Some members have been very subtle with the words while others have been very honest. Either way, they have found a way to insult each other and even getting away with it. We have to keep in mind that the mods and admins are not 24/7 online, so they can't see absolutely everything going on. It is up to us to help them do their job, by promoting a good environment and by messaging them about the issues going on. WIth that said, I also have to mention something to the mods and admins.
Handling this job is a serious responsibility. Thus I understand this and respect it. However, while I was doing the recollection of PMs and gathering information about the events going on, I received a few complains about your guys not doing your job well. Some members have addressed me that they have reached you with a few problems that they've been having and not receiving a reply to their concerns. Others have agreed with me when I say that you can't be 24/7 around the forums and thus, we can't expect you guys to resolve absolutely everything in a matter of minutes. With that said I'm going to post these two questions:
1-Members: do you feel like the mods and admins are doing their job? If yes or no? What supportive comment/constructive criticism/advice do you have for them?
2-Mods and Admins: Do you feel like the members are complaining too much? Do you feel like everything is going well in the forums? Do you feel that the community is also doing what you can to make your jobs not easier, but more "enjoyable" if I can say it like that? And finally, what do you propose to the community so that, not only the forum becomes a pleasant place for everyone, but also to help you do your job?
I encourage both parties to discuss this in this thread.
There are many other topics that are causing friction in Heaven and Earth, but I have to admit that I don't possess all the knowledge to address them all. Hence why I'm making such a persistent request for both members and admins to sit down and discuss these issues. And if they are not addressed seriously and if they are not discussed soon, this will be repeated over and over again:
If you think this issue isn't serious, just look at the consequences:
-A few members being banned from the forums (I'm pretty sure some of you are thinking about James S Cassidy, but I have to point out that other members have also been banned. And when you look at it, a ban is pretty much an indicator of something serious going on).
-Members calling out each other and even insulting other members. Even if its generalized, specific, and some of them having consequences while others not, this has been happening on a more frequent basis than before. Just look at the very chapter thread, where some members have been agreeing with James's post even though he was banned and where a new guy subscribed to point out issues going on around the forum and even calling out a member.
-As I mentioned in the beginning, people being discouraged from posting. This pretty much makes the discussions decrease on their usual activity and eventually, the forum losing activity overall.
-And even going as far as to members questioning the actions of the mods.
In the end, I'm not sure how this thread will unfold and what will we achieve with it. My goals are the following:
-To be able to have a thread where we can properly discuss our concerns. That way, we can keep the other discussions on topic and have a place where we can express our worries.
-To promote the communication between members, admins and even between disagreeing parties.
-To let everyone know that, not only these are serious issues that are currently affecting the whole forum, but that you also have the power to do something about it.
-To encourage everyone to not be afraid to express your concerns as long as you are respectful and follow the rules of the forum.
-And finally, to be able to bring a solution to most -if not all- the problems concerning our community.
I tried my best not to take any sides here. The only side I want to take is that I'm an NS fan of this community who wants to be polite and respectful to everyone and that I want to do something to help my fellow Heaven and Earth. I'm not sure what else to say, so I'll leave the ball in everyone's court. I trust you guys and I hope that a healthy communication between everyone is promoted on this thread. Remember that if you ignore this, the thread becomes meaningless and you are admitting that there is nothing going on on the forums (which I have to say that it would be a lie). These last words may sound a little blunt, but I have to repeat that the power is in your hands. You decide how this thread will unfold and what will the consequences be.
So from me to all of you: let's do our best for Heaven and Earth.
EDIT: Sorry for accidentally leaving the name of a fellow member. I just removed it and I would also like to apologize promptly. This is a very long post and it may contain mistakes, so I'm grateful for people who are helping me fix those.
Edited by Shadow Wolf, 27 April 2013 - 09:11 PM.