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#1 tricksie

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 03:30 PM

Since some posters have recently expressed an interest in how the mods work at H&E, we thought we'd start a thread to help explain what happens and why. Our hope is that this will be a forum where members can ask questions of mods, and where mods can make announcements about updates to the site. This will be very important in the upcoming months as we gear up for H&E 2.0 (a gorgeous upgrade/redesign that Smiter has been working on).

We've had threads before, started by both members and mods, concerning issues going on at that moment. But this thread will be pinned to handle Q&A going forward. It will be a place where mods can address issues regarding H&E. And where members can post a comment, question or concern about the site and know they will receive an answer.

About H&E

• This site belongs to one person, Smiter. It is his playground. We all just play here. But it belongs to him.

• The rules are very, very simple: Don't bash. Be courteous.

• Any opinion is welcome here as long as it stays focused on your opinion, and not pointing fingers at other users or fandoms.

• Use the Golden Rule to guide you before you post: If you wouldn't want someone posting that type of comment about you, then don't post it about someone else.

• Agree to disagree and then (and this is the important part) walk away from the topic. Just let it go. You don't have to get along or agree with anyone on here. But you do play a part in keeping the peace.

Personal Messages (PMs) and Blogs

• These are great personal tools of the site, and we are lucky to have them. Because they fall under the umbrella of H&E, the same rules apply. Bashing someone in a PM or a blog is the same as doing it anywhere else on the site, and subject to warns.

Mod Team: How it All Works

• Mods are members too. They are not paid. They have lives and jobs and families. They are members of this community who have said they'll give a little bit more of their time and effort to make sure things run smoothly. Don't forget we're all in this big boat together.

• The mods discuss every single issue, every single warn, every single ban, every single everything. Nothing is done without a consensus. Even though one mod handles the pm and official warn, the whole mod team stands behind that decision. It's our own system of checks and balances to make sure the member gets a fair shake.

• Also in the best interests of the member is the fact that we do not discuss the reasons for a member's warn publicly. Everybody makes mistakes. And this way if a member does get a warning, they can get back on the right path without fear of their old mistake haunting them.

• We listen to the report button. And it factors heavily into the decision-making process. If someone thinks it's bad enough to pm, then it's worth looking at. And we try to pm to address every single one. The person who makes the report may not know the issue's been dealt with, but we look at each one and try to sort out what's going on and whether we need to step in.

• There is no list of who reports on whom. None. You can hit that button every day if you want. Nobody's keeping score. It's just an easy reminder that if something is getting out of hand, there is something you can do about it.

• We listen to PMs. Some users don't feel comfortable with the report button, and that's perfectly fine. PMs are more informal and some people feel more comfortable using them. The mods greatly value these as well, sometimes even more than a report, because the member and a mod can discuss back and forth and find a good solution. (Especially if someone is feeling personally targeted or bashed, and doesn't want to open themselves up to more. Even if nothing comes of it, it helps that the member has alerted the mod to the problem, and we can be watching for it in the future. PM-ing one of us helps us get your back. Period.) And mods often share the parts of PMs that relate to a problem, but not necessarily the whole pm.

• The main warn system goes down like this: 3 Official Warnings -> 3-day Temp Ban -> 1 Official Warning -> 7-day Temp Ban -> 1 Official Warning -> 1 month ban -> 1 Official Warning -> 6 month Temp Ban -> PERMANENT BAN.

• The warns and a full list of rules, as well as when a member can expect a reset button, is in the Rules of Conduct thread.

Mod Team: Things we reserve the right to do

• If a user is being disruptive and engaging in trollish behavior, then we reserve the right to place him/her on a temp suspension until the mods come to a consensus on how to discipline them.

• If a user is trolling right out of the gate, we reserve the right to ban immediately.

• If a user bashes someone in a thread, then we reserve the right to call out at that user in that thread. If more than one person is targeted or if an entire thread is derailed, mods will step in. In fact, you should expect it.

• If a user starts a flamewar or willingly participates, we reserve the right to warn and/ban.

• If a user is a sockpuppet (a current member creating a duplicate account to troll), we reserve the right to ban immediately. And we reserve the right to warn/ban any members knowingly aiding in these types of frauds.

Mod Team: The good news

• The good news is the vast majority of our members never have to worry about these rules. We have a great site, and everybody pitches in to make it so. And when things get out of hand, the mod team is there to make sure everything gets back on track smile.gif

#2 KnS

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

Thanks for doing this. It's a great idea. It's also very clear and well written, and I think the information will benefit the community a lot going forward.




#3 Verilance

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:31 PM

Thanks for this as well, I have been coming here off and on for five years and without a doubt this is one of the best places on the web to be and I have to thank you guys (the mods) for making it as welcoming as it is.

I don't usually get caught up in the discussion because this opinionated old f*rt has never seen anything that would change my thoughts of the direction Kishimoto is going in.

blind faith maybe lol

you guys all do a wonderful job and you all deserve double your current salary (get on it Smiter) smile.gif


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#4 KnS

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:38 PM

QUOTE (Verilance @ May 1 2013, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this opinionated old f*rt has never seen anything that would change my thoughts of the direction Kishimoto is going in.

blind faith maybe lol

+1

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#5 Slextrem

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:20 AM

First, I just want to say thank you guys so much for making this thread! The information that you've posted so far has been really helpful!

I do have a question regarding the main warn system...

Let's say that a user is one mistake away from getting a ban, (whether it's temporary or permanent). For the next year and a half, that user is always on their best behavior, but then they have a slip-up. Even though they've been making genuine efforts to stay on the right track, would they still automatically receive the ban, or would the mods deliberate the situation before deciding on a punishment?

#6 Nate River

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:44 PM

QUOTE (Slextrem @ May 2 2013, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First, I just want to say thank you guys so much for making this thread! The information that you've posted so far has been really helpful!

I do have a question regarding the main warn system...

Let's say that a user is one mistake away from getting a ban, (whether it's temporary or permanent). For the next year and a half, that user is always on their best behavior, but then they have a slip-up. Even though they've been making genuine efforts to stay on the right track, would they still automatically receive the ban, or would the mods deliberate the situation before deciding on a punishment?


The only users we ban without ANY deliberation are spam/ad bots. Occassionally, the very obvious troll will meet with a very swift ban, but those are people who from the first post they make are here only to cause problems. The vast majority of the time there have been cases where opposing fandoms have wandered over here to rub something in the fandoms face, and created the account to do only that. Those are people we are referring to who troll right out of the gate as they join, when a noteworthy pairing chapter is released and start poking the fandom on their first post.

The current ban system was generated about five years ago in order to help fix what we thought was an inconsistent use of the punishments, particularly the perma ban and informal warnings. Our preference is to stick to that system because it allows for a lot of leeway. We do deviate, but the preference is not to do so.

But in the situation you describe, the ban would not be automatic. There would be some deliberation and what we did would depend on the specifics of the situation. The nature of the current violation, what they did to get to that point, their behavior during that year and a half and so on.

#7 Slextrem

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (Nate River @ May 3 2013, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The only users we ban without ANY deliberation are spam/ad bots. Occassionally, the very obvious troll will meet with a very swift ban, but those are people who from the first post they make are here only to cause problems. The vast majority of the time there have been cases where opposing fandoms have wandered over here to rub something in the fandoms face, and created the account to do only that. Those are people we are referring to who troll right out of the gate as they join, when a noteworthy pairing chapter is released and start poking the fandom on their first post.

The current ban system was generated about five years ago in order to help fix what we thought was an inconsistent use of the punishments, particularly the perma ban and informal warnings. Our preference is to stick to that system because it allows for a lot of leeway. We do deviate, but the preference is not to do so.

But in the situation you describe, the ban would not be automatic. There would be some deliberation and what we did would depend on the specifics of the situation. The nature of the current violation, what they did to get to that point, their behavior during that year and a half and so on.

Thank you so much for the detailed response! You answered the next question I was going to ask before I got the chance to do so, which is awesome! laugh.gif

#8 tricksie

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:02 PM

Meant to post this a while back, but life got in the way!

We had some discussion lately about sock puppets and banning, and I thought I'd explain exactly what our stance is.

First off, sock puppets are users logged in under a fake name/account. Hence the term sock puppet. Most of the time this is done to troll.

We've had two on here lately: Crimson/Baguette and Kadardi/BabyVee/BlackBee (yeah, she had three accts).

The mods have decided to name them, breaking from our stance of not publicly naming/shaming community members, because what they did affected many members, not just the few who interacted with them.

Why is being a sock puppet a problem? Because it undermines the community. It makes users feel like they can't post because they don't know who they are talking to, especially when one comment tears a person down, while the next one builds them up...yet both comments were posted by the same end-user, just one was as a sock puppet.

Both recent sock puppets trolled the site to get a response. Baguette was an active and contributing member of the site before deciding to play devil's advocate as Crimson, an NH troll. Kadardi was just a troll.

Several people have asked why Crimson/Baguette was banned immediately when he was, in the past, an active member. Let me explain it this way: If a kid cheats in class on a test, it doesn't matter if you like the kid or not or how much fun he is in class. It's still cheating.

In the thread, Baguette said himself that he didn't really care that it was against the rules, and that he knew he would probably get banned. And he didn't really care about that either.

So, if a user has to disguise himself to troll as an NH-er to have debate, then admits that he knows it's wrong and doesn't care that he's going to get punished...the mods are left with a pretty clear path. It's up to the user to make good choices, not the mods.

And yes, there was some fallout from the incident, members who felt they'd been used, etc. Not everyone thought it was a joke and all in fun.

To touch on something that Slextrem mentioned above, do we take into account users situations when doling out punishment, yes, we do. And when someone says "Eh, so ban me! I don't care!" that pretty much makes a mods' job simple.

An honest mistake is one thing, and when it happens people are honestly sorry (we do take it into account). But when someone admits they don't care (about the site or that how their actions are impacting others)...then why should the mods care? Why should the mods let their actions slide, when they don't care about the community or rules of the site anyway?

My best advice is to think of being a sock puppet like cheating in class. When you're caught, you're out. That's only fair to everyone else who cares about what they come here for — troll-free NS discussion.

#9 sushi.

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:17 PM

QUOTE (Smiter @ May 16 2013, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Guys, I understand that you are all feeling really happy and getting a kick out of this chapter, but please tone down the fandom comments. Let's just focus on the chapter and not on other pairing fandoms. Remember, no bashing. happy.gif

Should we simply avoid talking about other fandoms(particularly YT reviewers) too much? Or should be stop when we're getting too fired up/when you tell us to stop? Or should we not talk about it at all because it only leads to bashing?

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#10 tricksie

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:58 PM

QUOTE (sushi. @ May 16 2013, 09:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Should we simply avoid talking about other fandoms(particularly YT reviewers) too much? Or should be stop when we're getting too fired up/when you tell us to stop? Or should we not talk about it at all because it only leads to bashing?

smile.gif Good question. Lots of times, blanket requests get interpreted in many different ways.

The problem isn't in talking about other fandoms, but that the prolonged discussion often derails the thread and leads to bashing (directly or indirectly).

So....

Should we simply avoid talking about other fandoms(particularly YT reviewers) too much?

No, but it should be kept to a minimum, and only to compare specific things that have to do with the topic/chapter. Not huge sweeping stereotypes of fandoms, and not nit-picky singling out of a NF or YT reviewer.

Or should we stop when we're getting too fired up/when you tell us to stop?

Lol, yeah, we do hope if a mod steps in the bashing will stop! laugh.gif But we're all part of a community, so if other users are asking for the conversation to be toned down or back on topic, then that's a good sign that things are beginning to get out of hand.

Or should we not talk about it at all because it only leads to bashing?

Well, those things tend to quickly snowball into bashing. So maybe instead of talking about issues in terms of how screwed up another fandom is (eg, "NH-ers always say Sakura is too violent!"), rephrase your thoughts so the other people can comment as well ("Why do some fans think she's too violent? Where's the proof?"). Keeping the focus on the manga or the anime and not the fandom lets other people respond without jumping on the bashing bandwagon.

smile.gif Hope this helps. Thanks for posting this here, instead of in the chapter thread, so everyone else can weigh in too!

#11 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:28 PM

This may have more to do with the website design itself and have nothing to do with the mods, but I feel the need to ask: why does the "rate user" function exist?

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 16 May 2013 - 07:28 PM.

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#12 Smiter

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ May 16 2013, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This may have more to do with the website design itself and have nothing to do with the mods, but I feel the need to ask: why does the "rate user" function exist?


Unfortunately, it's something that I haven't been able to find the "off" button for.

#13 sushi.

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:47 PM

Rating is normal for any forum I think. I've seen many forums with designs similar to this, and they all have member ratings.

And thanks for the detailed answer, tricksie! biggrin.gif You're an awesome mod : )

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#14 KnS

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:19 PM

QUOTE (Smiter @ May 16 2013, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Unfortunately, it's something that I haven't been able to find the "off" button for.

I sent you a PM with some config info. Depends on the version, though. smile.gif




#15 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:38 PM

Not a big deal, but why has my profile view count been stuck at the same number for almost a month now?

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#16 KnS

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE (FoolishYoungling @ May 16 2013, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not a big deal, but why has my profile view count been stuck at the same number for almost a month now?

I noticed that too, along with a database error that appears at the bottom of the profile page. I just assumed it might be due to some of the site work that's been going on.





#17 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:37 PM

QUOTE (KnS @ May 18 2013, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I noticed that too, along with a database error that appears at the bottom of the profile page. I just assumed it might be due to some of the site work that's been going on.

Yeah. I also noticed that my text got smaller on my profile page for some reason after the site came back from being off for about 2 hours due to database error a few days/weeks ago.

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#18 sushi.

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:40 PM

QUOTE (FoolishYoungling @ May 18 2013, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah. I also noticed that my text got smaller on my profile page for some reason after the site came back from being off for about 2 hours due to database error a few days/weeks ago.

Me too, I thought it was my computer XD

Sometimes when I click on the "View new posts" button, there is an error. It doesn't really bug me much, but it's alright to bring it up I guess. tongue.gif

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#19 Saku-chan

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:09 AM

Is the error that you get from the 'View New Posts' the flood control?

You have to wait at least 20 seconds before you click that button again so that the site doesn't have to constantly search the whole forum for new posts. smile.gif
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#20 KnS

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:57 AM

QUOTE (Saku-chan @ May 19 2013, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is the error that you get from the 'View New Posts' the flood control?

I can't speak for sushi., but the error I was referring to is not related to viewing new posts flood control.

I've been getting an IPS driver error on the bottom of the profile view for a couple of weeks now. Off the top of my head I'd guess it's caused by a call to a missing table in the database or something similar. No loss of functionality*, I don't think, it's just a nag. Probably easy to find in the error logs.

ETA: *No perceived loss of functionality except for the profile view count issue originally reported. wink.gif



Edited by KnS, 20 May 2013 - 03:07 AM.





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