54175 replies to this topic

[BlueStarSaber]

The video was done a year ago, so it doesn't have the recent data post volume 7.

Edited by BlueStarSaber, 22 June 2020 - 12:03 PM.

[Kagomaru]

Ah I see, would the neon genesis evangelion series be a better example?

 

Definitely.  Rebuild is literally a retcon of the previous series because both the TV series and EoE endings were a result of fan pressure and Anno's clinical depression(with EoE specifically being written as revenge against the fandom for pushing him over the edge with hate mail, reported vandalism outside the studio and him running over a squirrel).

[ree]

See any form of media that had a bad idea. They thought something might work and make them a tidy profit and didn't realize how badly it would blow up in their faces.
 
nH was "big" in the US. Thought it was "big" in the western world. Naruto's biggest selling point to investors is that it is an international hit. Make the ending nH though it had little build up to make it happen. so, have a movie be the build up. Then have a sequel based off the nH kid. Since it nH's kid the sequel should be successful in the West.
 
Honestly, looking back. When you look at the ending it jarring, but it really nothing more than hear are the pairings and their kids. With some bitterness and unfortunate implications from Naruto speech and Bolt's behavior. Its the movie and the things after the ending that made the backlash get as bad as it had.
 
The movie was made by SP's nH fans who wanted the movie to be about glorifying Hinata as the best girl. Problem is that going off the manga she is Naruto's second choice after Sakura. They didn't like that so they made the movie trying to get rid of that stigma. The way they went about it was making Hinata the most important person in the world  close to a literal princess-goddess as one can get, the only person that has ever had a bond with Naruto, the only person Naruto has ever loved or cared about, NS never exist because there was never any sort of feeling between the two in fact Sakura fully supports nH, Naruto has no understand of love or any emotion, and so on till they had stripped out everything about Naruto people liked for the sake of Hinata. 
 
Even if kishimoto thought the movie was bad by that point it would be too late to change anything because production on Boruto had already begun.
Sorry, I was a bit lazy with that reply. Anyway no matter what even him trying to fix it is a long shot by this point. Even if he does he would have to go beyond just giving his all for it even to have the slimmest chance to work.
 
If its an OVA then its that group doing not kishi. It has to be a manga.
 
How old is this child? It may be his accent but he sounds at least twice as old as he looks. Also how old is this video? Volume 7 came out over a year ago. This also looks like the chart someone made before ANN stopped doing an article showing volume sales ...yes its the same chart. Namenash commented and posted on this over a year ago. I'll just say this from what I understand sales have gotten worse since then, and you also have had Kishimoto's Samurai 8 flop since that time too.

I have a most recent chart, and it's seems it's continuing fall. But next Sunday Boruto's gonna give an important announcement. Maybe a movie, after all it's the 2nd most popular TV Tokyo's anime.

https://ibb.co/TL4Wz5f

[thelordofspace72]

If they intend to make a second Boruto movie, then I am sure it is worse than the one before. Everything about the first movie was stupid, especially hairstyles.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Just end this stupid thing already, I mean we all know it's failed just admit you messed up and move on already.

[BlueStarSaber]

Just end this stupid thing already, I mean we all know it's failed just admit you messed up and move on already.

 

From what i heard the magaka and writer of boruto wants to go up to 30 volumes, so you are at least stuck with boruto for another 19 volumes.

[TheFirstEvil100]

 
From what i heard the magaka and writer of boruto wants to go up to 30 volumes, so you are at least stuck with boruto for another 19 volumes.

Then I just have to win the lottery, buy it then axe it.

[BlueStarSaber]

Found this old wordpress blog article for anyone interested

 

https://fairyhime.wo...u-and-sasuhina/

[thelordofspace72]

Just end this stupid thing already, I mean we all know it's failed just admit you messed up and move on already.

 

Is this talk addressed to me?

[TheFirstEvil100]

 
Is this talk addressed to me?

No just talking about Boruto and how it needs to end.

[BlueStarSaber]

Sadly I can't see it ending anytime soon

[Nate River]

Then I want an answer to my question...why make NS scenes at all? Why continue to make NS scenes when it is completely irrelevant? No, I don't accept the idea that "we are trying to get the NS fans back into the picture" excuse because that goes against their previous thought of "we don't give a crap about NS."

Which scenes are you referring to? Do you mean in Naruto or in Boruto? I want to be clear about which time frame you mean.
 
 

Or maybe...just maybe I don't believe these people are THAT dumb and are sitting here thinking that they have no kittening idea what they are doing.

I take that back...these people are that dumb. They truly believe that if they throw little subtle NS hints that all of a sudden we are going to be like "OMG, we got NS canon....we will buy this stuff again."

I was going to say, we both read the ending and saw the post-series comments...I could totally believe that they are that dumb.
 
 

What's on the page is not concrete anymore because the story keeps changing. They keep rewriting events to the point that I have no idea what is canon anymore. We might as well say Road to Ninja is canon because "Kishimoto wrote it" and it was made of elements he wanted to do. It is amazing how Road to Ninja is considered not canon, but the Light Novels are even though Kishimoto never talks about them, the story never establishes them, and not a single element even make a mention in any of the other parts.

This is why I have made this into categories. Canon vs Continuity. It's like how Disney bought Star Wars and changed the canon even though Lucas, the creator, said "Star Wars Legends is "canon." Modern day story telling is infuriating because now people are just doing whatever the hell they want to do and not caring about respecting the original canon or story elements.

I”m being more literal than that. What they said and did in a particular chapter is what it is They can put different spins on later, they could ignore it, or, if they decide to get lazy, call it a dream or whatever. Call it canon or disregard it, doesn’t matter. They wrote it, its there.

Doing those kinds of things creates garbage writing and a crappy product. The Last is an example. They complete rewrote Naruto’s feelings on Sakura. That can’t change what was written before even if they want to change the interpretation later. The scene is trash in because of the contradiction it creates. If they want to say its cannon now, fine. It’s garbage either way and I am content leaving it at that.

My point was that I simply do not care about the “why.” Why they chose to NH/SS doesn’t matter to me. Why they chose to write the last that way, doesn’t matter to me. All that matters is that the writing for them is trash. I’m not interested in their product at this point because it sucks. And that kitten writing is why it sucks.

 

 

We don't even know what the underlying motivations are of Kishimoto or the publishers are. That's the most infuriating part. There is nowhere in the story or anything to say that putting NH and SS together was an underlying motivation...UNTIL maybe the last 2 years of the manga. That's all I got. There was no motivation to have any of this occur. So whose decision was it really? It certainly can't be Kishimoto's since he keeps saying he avoided romance like the plague. Unless you want to believe he is a liar.

I agree we don’t, but that part of the reason why I don’t care about the “why.” Additionally because of that I am unwilling to ascribe wholly illogical motivations to them and many of the post-Naruto theories regarding NH/SS relationships, interpretations of specific scenes, or how NS could be made to happen require them to behave in such a manner.

Catering to larger fanbase to chase a buck is at least logical for an entity that ultimately needs to make money to continue to exist. Especially if you think there is no way to resolve the triangle without someone being salty. It’s not the only logical course of action, but it is one. Crapping on that fanbase you cast your lot with after you’ve chose to do something like that is not.
 
 

But that is exactly what they did...or at least what Kishimoto did. The rest of the group that is writing a story is basically making the coloring-book adventure of Boruto where no matter what happens, it gets resolved. Kishimoto is tone deaf because this is a dude who went from "death is permanent" to "I have a magical eye that brings people back to life" and you HATED that. That is from WAAY in the Pain arc. I mean every time Sasuke conveniently changes his mind about Sasuke resolve it is over the most ridiculous reasons or someone just says "Nah, you shouldn't do that, fam."

I think it is tone death when you have characters just brush off things with no consequences. When Naruto "talk-no-jutsus" a villain into changing their ways.

I did hate that and I still do. Perhaps the biggest reason everything Post-Pain is so intolerable is because Kishimoto takes obvious issues confronting his characters and sidesteps them. Naruto never has to provide answers for the obvious gaps in his ideas them. The Third’s soft heart got people, including himself, killed and Naruto is repeatedly saved from having to address their obvious issue in his own thinking. The problems with the pairings are nothing compared to this issue. His flanderization is probably the worst aspect of the end of that series.
 
 
 

Oh sorry, I mistook Sakura looking down and miserable all the time as a sign of sadness...turns out she is all rainbows and butterflies. I mistook all her anger outburst about Sasuke as a sign of dysfunction, but I guess that was her just expressing how much she loves him. I mistook Sasuke not being to hug and kiss his supposed "wife" as him just not liking to be home, but it turns out it was really him wanting to go out and tell the world how happily married he is.

I reread the ending and, yeah, I stand by what I said. Whatever issues they had were resolved by the stories end. It was a happy ending meant to show that the issues that resulted in that short journey were fixed. I don’t know what they were going for with that look, but with what everyone says and does (and that ending photo), I find it hard to believe that the intent is to show a secretly broken relationship outside of what was shown in the Gaiden itself and those were resolved. They had issues, they got resolved in standard late Naruto fashion (i.e. poorly) and its done.

You may not be satisfied by what they did (And I certainly wasn’t), but its not prelude to divorce or meant to show a broken relationship teetering on the brink of collapse. No way is anything in that a hint or suggestion at some underlying NS idea or theory.

It’s like Naruto’s ending, the resolution of the issues raised was absolutely atrocious, but they were resolved. I’m not going to pretend otherwise. That the resolution sucked and was inadeqaute doesn’t mean there wasn’t one.
 

Naruto being moody around the office and Shikamaru asking him about his troubled home life? I must have misread that part. Shikamaru was asking him how his perfect marriage is going, How about the time Naruto told his son to kitten off? It was just his way of saying "Son, you are my greatest creation."

Boruto is clear that Naruto has son issues. I full expect that, like Gaiden, when they reach the end he won’t have son issue when the series is done and he will still be married Hinata. I also expect the intent will be the same as Gaiden...to convey that those issues are resolved and the family is happy. Will the resolution stink? History suggests, yes, it probably will.
 

Also funny how people think this is amazing writing, but do it anywhere else and they say "this is boring."

Don’t ask me. The writing is awful.
 

 

I am not talking about Shonen Jump. Shonen Jump are just the publishers who try and market Naruto. Shonen Jump tries to keep focusing on the old Naruto and not the Boruto universe version of him. Ever notice that? Future Luffy? No problem. Future Ichigo? Tops. Future Goku? Perfect. Future Naruto? Eh....maybe we can use Shippuden Naruto instead.

My point I haven’t seen anything from any involved that suggests they are the equivalent of SJW push in western entertainment.
 
 

Not what I meant.  Keep word here is marketing. You add elements NOT because it would make sense to the overall story, but rather "because such element is popular among fans."

Future Trunks was insanely popular among the community. He was a character that everyone loved and he was great because being Vegeta's son and all it was like seeing something refreshing and new. A character from the timeline of "what ifs" Now, we have the Goku Black saga which sounds interesting at first, but then it all falls apart because the characters are insanely stupid, the logic falls apart, and you realize that at the end of the day it was all completely meaningless. It made very little, if no, differences and Goku Black would have been an easy run of the mill enemy.

Time travel in Dragonball plays off the multi-verse theory of time travel. You can't change your own timeline, you can only alter another one or create a new timeline. Well, in this one stance....this rule is betrayed and MANY timelines are created and destroyed all the for the sake of plot convenience. Now, the time ring is the biggest MacGuffin where wearing allows you to live outside of time, but characters that should have been erased still remain despite not wearing a time ring and it is all within the same sentence.

Future Trunks tries to explain how time travel works in the series, but it contradicts the existence of why Goku Black should exist in the first place.

For example, Beerus actually does Hakai the very Zamasu that becomes Goku black in the future of Universe 10. In this case, Future Trunks shouldn't exist now because the timeline he was from no longer exists because they stopped the need for Trunks to go back in time in the first place. This is specifically stated by several elements. The manga complicated this even more, but still. Whis takes Trunks and Mai to a completely different timeline where now there are two Trunks and two Mais because Trunks can't return to his original timeline because it doesn't exist anymore. It is a triple paradox that is impossible to occur.

And since it ends up being a Goku and Vegeta fight anyway...it left me thinking...what the hell was the entire point of this? Goku didn't learn anything. Vegeta didn't learn anything.

The point was for marketing. They wanted to market Future Trunks and an Evil Goku. That's it. That's the entire premise. Now, if they are more than willing to do this for Dragonball, why not do it in Naruto? Who cares if the NH and SS fandoms get peeved....it is all about money right? Just change everything or make a new Naruto timeline....change it all. Why not? It is like you said...it is all thought noise anyway.

No no...let me guess "we have to preserve the continuity of NH and SS." Funny how, THAT is the only element that has to be preserved, but everything else is fair game. You want Naruto to die from Kurama blood poisoning even though it never happened to any other jinchuuriki? Alright. You want to have more and more Kaguya children even though they came out of thin air? Okay. You want to have Sasuke and Boruto return to the past and just erase everyone's mind anyway? Seems legit.

They can change anything and everything.....BUT NH and SS. That has to be preserved for canon sake. The double standards are massive with Naruto. Triple and even quad standards.
 
 
More pandering. "Sasuke is scared of Hinata," but he is not scared of anything else? Why? We have seen Sasuke meet Hinata several times and he gives no kittens. Now all of a sudden he is scared of her? What for?

Hell, in one movie he tosses her aside like a ragdoll. No kittens given. So if it is true....another useless pointless retcon for the sake of stroking egos.

I’m not going to deny the Super Trunks arc was a mess, but my point remains the same. That the plot was a mess didn’t change the core or primary tone of the story. It was the same as it always was, Goku and Vegeta get into flashy fist fights in any attempt to save the word. It’s mess of plot doesn’t change the fundamentals.

Switching pairings midstream means sidestepping the obvious (which I guess is right up Naruto’s ally) and making it all background noise that doesn’t matter or changing the focus of the story (from Boruto to Naruto) and its tone from action/adventure to pure relationship drama for large chunks of the story. I don’t care what they preserve at this point, but its not about preserving canon.

The former strikes me as a meaningless waste of time unless just seeming them together for its own sake is adequate. It wouldn’t be for me.

THe later...I’m amazed anyone here would even want to read that.

We’ve been kittening on his writing for how long...who thinks either he or the current Boruto author could write such a thing and it not being a giant dumpster fire everyone hates?

[Bail o' Lies]

Oh at the start of Boruto they hint Naruto is dead.

 

Have they done another NS scene in Boruto other then that Sakura and Salad talk years back? That happened in order to start the BS ship by drawing parallels between the two.

 

Does anyone know the whole truth behind anything? Any sort of media? Every decision? Look we are never going to find out the whole truth about what happened to Naruto. We have rumors, kishimoto's interviews, hearsay, and some data along with one's intelligence as well as ability to make conclusions based on logic to try to come up with the best answer possible.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 June 2020 - 06:39 PM.

[Nate River]

I know.  I won’t be sad if it stays that way. Put his character out of its misery (and by misery I mean the garbage writing).

 

That said, given this series’s overall track record, I’ll believe he’s dead when I see the body and believe he’ll stay that way once the series ends and he’s still dead (if he dies). 

 

We do not know the truth behind everything and I don’t think it matters. Junk is junk regardless of whether we know why it became junk, and its junk at this point.

[thelordofspace72]

Oh at the start of Boruto they hint Naruto is dead.

 

Have they done another NS scene in Boruto other then that Sakura and Salad talk years back? That happened in order to start the BS ship by drawing parallels between the two.

 

Does anyone know the whole truth behind anything? Any sort of media? Every decision? Look we are never going to find out the whole truth about what happened to Naruto. We have rumors, kishimoto's interviews, hearsay, and some data along with one's intelligence as well as ability to make conclusions based on logic to try to come up with the best answer possible.

 

I really don't understand why they keep making stupid decisions, what will benefit them from Naruto's death. What is the stupid explanation that they will give to Naruto fans to convince them that Naruto died at the hands of that kawaki person (I really feel that he is the worst evil they invented). I heard some rumors and theories that Kawaki was possessed by Isshiki Ōtsutsuki and was used to destroy the Hidden Leaf Village. This is all I found about him. What do you think?

 

The idea of ​​the bad guys in Boruto looks the same from Naruto. Shows a group of bad guys and then it becomes clear that some of them are nothing compared to the new ones and others are already controlled / deceived by other bad guys who are also being deceived by others also and the chain does not end.

[Kagomaru]

Well, here's something to make some of y'all feel a little better:

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Bm8yg-rXU

Edited by Kagomaru, 23 June 2020 - 11:40 PM.

[Nate River]

Heh, despite being parody it’s closer to how he would be than what Boruto has him doing.

 

it was pretty funny though.

[VanitasDS76491]

You know what couple I rather happen than NH and SS? RikuxKairi. Even if I see them like a brother-sister, they still have more chemistry.

That and we saw them together more than NH
  

Just end this stupid thing already, I mean we all know it's failed just admit you messed up and move on already.

Wouldn't that be something if they admit they screwed up like hoping naughty dog and druckman admit they kittened up with the last of us part 2

[Phantom_999]

 
I really don't understand why they keep making stupid decisions, what will benefit them from Naruto's death. What is the stupid explanation that they will give to Naruto fans to convince them that Naruto died at the hands of that kawaki person (I really feel that he is the worst evil they invented). I heard some rumors and theories that Kawaki was possessed by Isshiki Ōtsutsuki and was used to destroy the Hidden Leaf Village. This is all I found about him. What do you think?
 
The idea of ​​the bad guys in Boruto looks the same from Naruto. Shows a group of bad guys and then it becomes clear that some of them are nothing compared to the new ones and others are already controlled / deceived by other bad guys who are also being deceived by others also and the chain does not end.

 
Shock value. They HOPED that the implication that Naruto is dead at the beginning would lure readers in and maybe their curiosity would stay long enough to draw them in, because immediately after that they are starting from the beginning to build up to that very moment by rewinding things back to Boruto's childhood and thinking that would engage the audience enough for them to buy the manga. Too bad that on top of Naruto's name being completely ruined for NH, the Boruto manga is coasting along by boring the readers with unnecessary dialog and exposition and also ripping off anything that can be thought of. There is the ocassional decent fight scenes but nothing outstanding and it doesn't erase the dragging snail's pace to get to it. Not to mention it is stated time and again that Boruto, some way or another will get even stronger than his dad for no reason at all by being HANDED DOWN freebie powers at an even worse level than Sasuke ever did.
 
Then there is the narrative problem. Now that Boruto's dad and Sasuke are "the stongest ninjas" on the planet, they are resorting to the cheap tactic of "worfing" the two of them against villans that are stronger than Kaguya, or they are explaining why the two of them are having such a poor showing when there are suppose to be none stronger than them on the protagonist's side. the fact that they are resorting to these moves to stretch out the story as long as possible only shows  how ill planned the entire thing was after Naruto ended JUST to make money and how they actually have no idea on how continue the story. They are just doing it. For no real reason

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 October 2020 - 11:54 AM.

[ree]

Then there is the narrative problem. Now that Boruto's dad and Sasuke are "the stongest ninjas" on the planet, they are resorting to the cheap tactic of "worfing" the two of them against villans that are stronger than Kaguya, or they are explaining why the two of them are having such a poor showing when there are suppose to be none stronger than them on the protagonist's side. the fact that they are resorting to these moves to stretch out the story as long as possible only shows  how ill planned the entire thing was after Naruto ended JUST to make money and how they actually have no idea on how continue the story. They  are just doing it. For no real reason

Totally agree, but I can't understand how the pro enders and Boruto's fans don't realize it. They keep defending Boruto like it was FMA, or monsters or something like that. They truly think Boruto is a good story and the people who dare to say something against it is just NS fans or people who don't really are Naruto's fans this kind of thing make me sick.

Edited by ree, 24 June 2020 - 11:09 PM.