37 replies to this topic

[Konohakitten]

I saw this story on my newsfeed on Facebook and I just wanted to share

 

http://www.saiyanisl...new-york-times/

[Lid]

It's an ad, technically, but still cool to see.

[Ace of Circle]

Finally!ONE PIECE ACKNOWLEDGED!

[Kamina-Yoshi]

Finally!ONE PIECE ACKNOWLEDGED!

It's got a long-running anime series and is considered one of the "Big Ones" of current manga; it doesn't need "acknowledgement". <.<;

[harry4e]

Finally!ONE PIECE ACKNOWLEDGED!

 

It's the highest selling Manga of all time, it's been ackowledged...besides this is just an advert in the NYT, I have to wonder if Viz knows it's target audience very well, it doesn't strike as the same crown as those who read the Ney York Times...I could be wrong.

[Darth Krypt]

I guess he meant acknowledged in the US. Naruto is much more popular there because 4kids did an abysmal job in localizing. 

[FoolishYoungling]

One Piece is on a level Dragon Ball can't even see.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

One Piece is on a level Dragon Ball can't even see.

[Nate River]

Yeah, OP is too far down the totem pole to see the top. So, in a way, he's right.

[FoolishYoungling]

Yeah, OP is too far down the totem pole to see the top. So, in a way, he's right.

 

http://en.wikipedia....t-selling_manga

 

Best selling manga of all time:

 

1. One Piece (345mil and will more than likely sale double eventually)

2. Dragonball (230mil)

 

Just because something is old school, doesn't mean the younger generation has to listen to the lies of the older generation trying to keep their anime (Dragonball) at the top. One Piece has been more of a success than Dragonball by a large margin. Yes Dragonball is good, and in a way, it is like a "father of anime", but it isn't the best. One day, even One Piece will be passed as the top dog. One day Micheal Jordan will be passed. One day Joe Montana will be passed (Tom Brady). Time to get with the now. There is a reason One Piece has much higher sales than any other manga year after year. One Piece will probably also last at least another 6 years. At that's at the VERY least.

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 24 April 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

Not gonna get into a fight about this, but:

 

Selling a lot of copies =/= being more popular. The Twilight-series of books and movies have probably out-sold Casablanca, yet Casablanca is phenomenally more popular. You simply quip one of their lines and a chorus starts. If you do a line from Twilight, you get a room full of silence. You say "Kamehameha", and you get a bunch of people with pictures of glowing hair and hymns of really cheesy Bruce Faulconer music going into their heads, and that's just in the Western/English-speaking world and not including Dragonball, the OVA's, the movies, Dragonball Z Kai, and even the games. I'm sorry, but One Piece is no where near as phenomenally popular as Dragonball Z, despite the sales. Out of 10 otaku children, 2 will do the Rasengan, two will do the Death Note, one will do the Gum Gum pistol, and five will do the Kamehameha (give or take one each for differing situations).

[FoolishYoungling]

Not gonna get into a fight about this, but:

 

Selling a lot of copies =/= being more popular. The Twilight-series of books and movies have probably out-sold Casablanca, yet Casablanca is phenomenally more popular. You simply quip one of their lines and a chorus starts. If you do a line from Twilight, you get a room full of silence. You say "Kamehameha", and you get a bunch of people with pictures of glowing hair and hymns of really cheesy Bruce Faulconer music going into their heads, and that's just in the Western/English-speaking world and not including Dragonball, the OVA's, the movies, Dragonball Z Kai, and even the games. I'm sorry, but One Piece is no where near as phenomenally popular as Dragonball Z, despite the sales. Out of 10 otaku children, 2 will do the Rasengan, two will do the Death Note, one will do the Gum Gum pistol, and five will do the Kamehameha (give or take one each for differing situations).

 

Yeah... no. Children? They would do the Rasengan probably. And sales means a lot in manga. If your going to undermine One Piece who is going to triple in sales of Dragonball, then this is a pointless and bias conversation. One Piece, is just better. Better adventure, better characters, better plot. And the amount of fans (from the same genre as Dragonball) proves that the mass majority agrees with me. Remember, not every anime fan is 25+ years old. So if you asked 100 random people to pick between them, One Piece would win. At least in Japan.

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 25 April 2014 - 06:17 AM.

[Jenskott]

I have no opinion on One Piece or its popularity, but...

 

 

 

One Piece is on a level Dragon Ball can't even see.

 

 

 

Just because something is old school, doesn't mean the younger generation has to listen to the lies of the older generation

 

 

 

Time to get with the now.

 

 

 

One Piece, is just better. Better adventure, better characters, better plot.

 

... these statements do NOT make wanting siding me with you. If you need undermine another series -out of nowhere because nobody was talking about DB- to try and prove your favorite series is better (like if it was a proveable fact) then your favorite series is not so great. And if you need throwing around such preposterous statements like "the lies of the older generation" then your arguments are poor. The lies of the older generation? Should I call your arguments "the lies of the younger generation" to try diminishing them? Should I tell you are only sore because an older series is more popular so you are trying convincing yourself? Do you realize how ridiculous your argument is?

 

"You are only trying making your favorite show looking good!"

 

I stopped liking DB twenty years ago.

 

Holding onto that thought, let's tell that OP has better adventure, characters and plot that DB. That is HARDLY an accomplishment. Almost anything has a better plot and characters than DB. So that, even if that was true, it would not mean OP is good.

 

I can not opine about OP because I have watched very few chapters, but from what I have seen is your average shonen manga. Better characters? You can change Luffy with dozens of shonen manga main characters and would nobody notice. Same thing with Zoro, Namy, etcetera.

 

Anyway, not to be rude, but your argument is all over the place. You are arguing sales, popularity, mass appeal, endurability and quality all at once when they are different things. What are you trying proving? That DB is better than OP? That is an opinion. That OP is more famous? That is arguable. That OP fame will endure for longer? That is impossible to prove. Sales is the only objective data that you can use, and they do not tell the whole story.

 

Yes, it has sold more copies than DB, but that does not mean it is more popular. Mitsuru Adachi and Rumiko Takahashi works have sold more copies than Evangelion manga, still kids in forums will acknowledge Eva more easily than Touch or Urusei Yatsura.

 

Moreover, the "This stuff I like sells a lot so the mainstream agrees with me: it must be good" argument is null as far as I am concerned. Why? Because often it is used for someone to try and validating his/her likes, but if something is popular and that person dislikes it, then he/she will turn around and declare "sales mean nothing. Popular is different than good".

 

So, in that spirit, I ask "Is Twilight good? Is it better than The Godfather, Casablanca...?". If you are going to use sales to prove OP is more popular and therefore better, then you must agree to that.

 

You will see, it does not matter if something is popular now and is selling a lot now. It does not mean it will endure. That is the true test. Ask anybody in my country about Evangelion, Gurren Lagan or Gundam and they will have no idea of what you are talking about. Ask them about Mazinger-Z -an robot anime was aired in 1978- and EVERYOBODY knows what it is.

 

It is like if you tell someone "Spongebob is more famous and more popular than Mickey Mouse, Looney Toons and Tom and Jerry. You are only an old man refuses believing his childhood series have been surpassed. Get with the times". Still, Mickey Mouse, Looney Toons and Tom and Jerry have been around for decades and you can bet they will be around for several more decades. We will see about poor Bob.

 

So... It has been nearly twenty years since DB ended, and everyone know it. Regardless its quality, DB has passed the test. The true test for OP is not how famous it is now. It is how famous it will be twenty, thirty, forty years from now. If it is still known for everyone whereas DB has been forgotten, then I will agree.

 

Also you must realize popularity levels are different in each region. DB was aired for first time in my country in 1990. It is still incredibly popular, even after channels stopped broadcasting it. OP was broadcast few years ago, it became popular for a while... but now nobody remembers it. Ask kids and they will not know who Luffy is. Or Naruto, for that matter. And no one ever has heard about Bleach...

 

Meanwhile... look, I respect you like OP, but there is a thin line between liking something and being a biased fan. Not only the latter one can get obnoxious but it can discourage potential fans.

 

Because, you will see, often I think "maybe I should check One Piece". but then I hear people knocking another series down to try "proving" that OP is "objectively" better (that is an opinion, not a fact, people!) and dimishing statements to the contry like "lies of the old generation" and my interest dies...

 

Fanboyism can turn someone's interest off. I still think Batman is a cool character, in spite of the best efforts of Batman fans for making me hating it. And not long ago I saw someone arguing in tvtropes "You should check VOTOMS. It is good because Gundam is crap!". Unsurprisingly, nobody was convinced.

 

 

 

Remember, not every anime fan is 25+ years old.

 

And DB is still known to anyone younger than 25 years. What is your point?

 

I am aware of most anime fans are oblivious to their fandom's history. Plenty of them not care about anything older than five years and automatically label it like bad and inferior. So that?

 

Nevertheless, I think (I stress the word "think") that fandom's average age is getting higher and higher.

 

Edit: By the way, OP selling more than DB does NOT mean more people agree with you about it being better than DB, since a fan can buy OP and still think other series is better. I buy Naruto -or I used- but there are many series I think are better. And what happens with all people does not buy manga but know about both series and still think DB is better or less bad? You have no numbers to prove your point.

Edited by Jenskott, 25 April 2014 - 07:47 AM.

[Nate River]

http://en.wikipedia....t-selling_manga
 
Best selling manga of all time:
 
1. One Piece (345mil and will more than likely sale double eventually)
2. Dragonball (230mil)
 
Just because something is old school, doesn't mean the younger generation has to listen to the lies of the older generation trying to keep their anime (Dragonball) at the top. One Piece has been more of a success than Dragonball by a large margin. Yes Dragonball is good, and in a way, it is like a "father of anime", but it isn't the best. One day, even One Piece will be passed as the top dog. One day Micheal Jordan will be passed. One day Joe Montana will be passed (Tom Brady). Time to get with the now. There is a reason One Piece has much higher sales than any other manga year after year. One Piece will probably also last at least another 6 years. At that's at the VERY least.

Aside from all the factors Jenskott mentions there is another issue:

By your own data DB ran for 11 years (and Toriyama didn't even want to write the last two seasons and was actively trying to kill interest in his own product (BulmaVegeta)). I think he could have published many years after that and he simply didn't want too. He was an advisor to GT, he didn't even write the thing. OP has been running for 17. The gap is less impressive when you consider OP has had 6 extra years to achieve it. What was OP sales at 11 years?

Don't misunderstand. I don't care whether the younger generation ever views or likes DBZ. Watch want you want. I can't past the cruddy art long enough to get into the plot or characters.

Moreover, since this thread is about an NYT ad, I was only referring stateside. If it is doing better than DB in Japan. Fine. I don't care.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah, OP is too far down the totem pole to see the top. So, in a way, he's right.

Yep, DBZ was localized in more than 200+ countries, even in east europe and Africa, Iraq, Best Korea people know about this.

The vegita's quote "over nine thousand" has been dubbed in pratically every language of the universe.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 April 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[Konohakitten]

Wow how did Dragon Ball get dragged into this? I don't think that either of those animes should be compared to see which is the best, because they are so different from one another, and they are both amazing in their own way. I grew up with Dragon ball I was 13 when I started watching it. I got so involved with it that I remember crying when Krillin died for the first time. It was and still is one of my favorite amines of all time. I hold it dear to my heart because it was the first series I watched from beginning to end. At the time I watched it in Spanish. The internet wasn't was it is today so I had no way of knowing how popular it was in Japan. Once DB was done the ran DBZ it wasn't until a few months later that I saw it in English on UPN. Dragon Ball is just one of those giant animes because like someone stated it has survived the test of time and here we are several decades later and it's still growing strong what with games still being released and and then there's DBZ Kai. Now that doesn't mean that it's better the OP, it just means that it's popular and it's had several years to gain said popularity.

 

I remember I was so excited when I saw the ad in the New York times for OP. In my personal experience One Piece was that one anime that no one had heard of, and if they did it was the 4 kids version that they thought of. I remember having to explain to my friends time and time again that it was a great anime but the damage of horrible dubbing had tarnished Op's name. Even at work I could see how no one knew what it was. I use to work at Barnes and Noble and there wasn't a single manga volume in the graphic novel section when I first started working there. My manager put me in charge of ordering new titles and I made it my personal mission to get the manga in our stores. I was successful, and of course now it gets the new volumes because people actual want them. I love both these, but even I said that Luffy was the man who kicked Goku off the anime throne, at least in my book. To me it all comes down to story and creativity, and Op has that and even more. DB was more of a who's coming to earth to destroy it and how will they do it, and how big will their ki blasts be. Again not that any of that is bad, I personally will never get tired of watching any of the fights. I'm happy now that Op has more of a fanbase especially in the area where I use to live. I just got cable again and I was thrilled to see the redubbed version by funimation on adult swim unedited. I just wish that it could have gotten that when it first came to the states.

Edited by Konohakitten, 25 April 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[Nate River]

One Piece is on a level Dragon Ball can't even see.

It appears this is where it began.

And then the rest of us just jumped aboard.

[Jenskott]

 

 

Wow how did Dragon Ball get dragged into this?

 

An One Piece fan out of nowhere and for absolutely no reason decided lambasting Dragon Ball to try to prove One Piece is better/more popular/whatever.

 

 

 

 I grew up with Dragon ball I was 13 when I started watching it. I got so involved with it that I remember crying when Krillin died for the first time.

 

I was slightly younger than you when I began watching it. I also watched it in Spanish (that is one of the reasons I never, EVER will call Freezer "Frieza").

 

I also cried when Krilin died for first time. Ironically, it was the second time I watched that scene (I was watching a rerun).

 

 

 

To me it all comes down to story and creativity, and Op has that and even more. DB was more of a who's coming to earth to destroy it and how will they do it, and how big will their ki blasts be.

 

I can not talk about the creativity of One Piece, although the few chapters I have watched did not seem so creative to me... like in "original" (it was nothing I had not seen before). If we mean creative like in "weird", sure (not that it is necessarily a bad thing, mind you).

 

To be fair, DB was not like that. It was imagination and aventure. DBZ, on the other hand... your summary is quite accurate if we apply it to adult Goku's adventures. It is sad seeing how the series became so stale and repetitive.

 

Anyway, we are disgressing here. One Piece has got mainstream acknowledgement. Good for it and for its creator.

 

Edit: A very exact and concise summary, Nate.

Edited by Jenskott, 25 April 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Nate River]

also cried when Krilin died for first time. Ironically, it was the second time I watched that scene (I was watching a rerun).

Gotta say it: Are you sure it was a rerun? He dies so many times it's hard to tell the difference.

[Darth Krypt]

I can not talk about the creativity of One Piece, although the few chapters I have watched did not seem so creative to me... like in "original" (it was nothing I had not seen before). If we mean creative like in "weird", sure (not that it is necessarily a bad thing, mind you).

 

 

Well OP takes quite a lot of time to be really good. Before the crew enters the Grand Line, I could say its just an above average manga/anime. Suddenly a strong person from the Grand Line trashed a member of the crew and we get to see that the enemies the crew has faced all this while pales in comparison to the people in the Grand Line, which is the crew's destination. Its like a taste of things to come and personally that point was where my interest for OP skyrocketed. And I wasn't disappointed once the crew entered GL because the story keeps getting better and better. 

 

Point is, if you don't have the patience or time to invest in a long story, then OP is not for you. But if you do and want to follow the Strawhat crew along their adventure into a big, vast and rich world Oda has created (which takes a lot of time to explore hence its long running) then hop aboard their ship and sail to the Grand Line.

 

Also, if you think the art is "cruddy", then that's unfortunate. If you really can't enjoy the story because of the art then there's no point forcing it but personally I think you're missing out.