Bail o' Lies

Sorry but you keep say that BS, will not change anything as that's all you keep saying kid, preteen and adult gets very, very old and very fast. I mean my go there are a kitten tone of others out there that do far better then what Naruto did, the point of a story is to learn from something to be a better person as you grow up which other kids stories have done far better.

 

charlie and the chocolate factory: what does it teach us to be a good person, what happens to the four other good they get what was coming to them.

 

Lord of the Rings: Saruman what happened to him he died and was a traitor and he died for it.

 

JK even said it in an interveiw when making Harry potter books again for kids and she said hates traitors which she did in the 5th book some back stabbed them and the girl got what was coming to her.

 

I have even seen mangaka like they guy who made Hellsing and fullmetal alchemist with that sick kitten shou tucker and what he did to his own kid I mean there are many more mangaka who do this, and who if the did Naruto would see Sasuke as a kitten who needed to die in the end.

They keeps saying it because they think it is the catch all defense. That it demises any and all complaints and criticisms any of us can lay out against what has happened to the Naruto franchise.  It is like if you see a kitten kids show that is genuinely awful let say like teen titans go or powerpuff girls (let not get into a debate if they are good or not and just say they are bad for the sake of example) or a really awful kids movie. And when you point out how genuinely awful it is people just go "it for kids" which seem to mean "of course it's awful but we have such low expectations and respect for the intelligence of children we think they deserve to only get the absolute worst shlock we can think of."

Anyways who is Naruto target demographic? Shueisha is in the job of making money with their manga, so they will sell it to who every they think will give them the most profit.  It has ran for over sixteen to seventeen years by this point the original target demographic of children are adults now even internationally. Also the kids now a days aren't gonna be as invested into the series as they would be for My hero academy or food wars both of which started in their life time so they can get invested in or one piece which is a huge cultural phenomena in Japan that everyone reads. Now looking at the last we can see that Shueisha clearly was targeting the international or more importantly Western or more accurately the US fanbase which was believe to be heavily supportive of nH. The problem is they weren't financially supportive of the series. So they instead shifted focus to the Japanese fan base (which they pissed off with the ending and everything after that) by making Boruto the movie. The thing is that the kids in Japan are once again they not interested in Bolt because it is currently running on nostalgia (which they do not have for the franchise) more then any interesting story, and the parents in japan who grew up reading Naruto are not gonna let their kids purchase Boruto volumes because they do not want their kids to be invested into something they cannot trust not to stab their kids in the back. Leaving the Naruto fanbase only with the Otaku the parasites and outcast of Japan.

Hmm let me think. So their names are Sun and Moon instead of Bolt and Salad. They look like a mixture of their parents with their combine traits and personality, instead of a spoil rotten Naruto clone and a SK's child raised by Sakura. No stupid hair. They don't like a mashing of just features like Hinata's daughter. No sexualization of the children. likable personalities. Similar power to the parent because spiritual abilities are genetic unlike Sakura super strength or kurama's cloak or sage mode. And ending that was at least the writer's choice instead of editor and executive will.

Bail  now what do you think of today?

Yesterday was nice. Had a nice sleep, enjoyed the Bleach ending, read some news, looked at the presidential election polls, had a good lunch and dinner. Oh wait. You talking about Pokemon right.

Well like I said if he brought out Gloomy before Greninja was knew he was going to lose. So long before it even got to the last fight I knew what was going to happen before it did. Not to say i was happy but i saw the writing on the wall. as for the league it was not as good as it should have been. Ash only had two fights one was really good the other was mediocre to boring.

Normally the league tournament is an arc in of itself where we see most-to-all of Ash's fights in the tournament. The reason this is important is that all these people in theory went on similar journeys as Ash did. So by defeating them it was showing how far Ash had come in comparison to the other trainers. Also despite people saying Ash has no development he does grow in each arc and is shown in the league. Granted some people will probably explain/analyzing it better then I'm going to do:

Kanto: Ash was incredibly lazy as a trainer normally playing it by ear and hoping luck would pull him through. Which it some times did. He got half his badges outside of actually winning a Gym Battle, and he was able to win the first round with Krabby one-shotting everything. But this came to bite him with Team Rocket interference and the fact he wasn't able to get Charzard to respect and obey him cost him the tournament.

Johto: Ash now bonds well with all his pokemon and has all their love and respect. For the most part. He was finally able to surpass his old rival Gary, but lost to another trainer that saw a bit more of the world then him. Also he still wasn't training seriously I still recall he really didn't think about evolving his pokemon to make them stronger for the the league was a good idea to go through with instead of just waiting for them to evolve at when the plot allows. Till a magby trainer told him literally right before the tournament started.

Honnen: Ash saw more of the world was able to get far into the tournament but lost to a Trainer that had a more experience and fully evolved team. He was able to beat the Battle frontier afterwards mind you. Which gave him a bit more experience against different types of battle styles.

Sinnoh: Was until Kalos Ash at his most experience and most strategical thinking in battle. It really focused on setting up a battle of idea and practice of how to raise pokemon with Paul's strict training and stats vs bonding and friendship of Ash. So by Ash beating Paul he proved that his style of raising pokemon was better then Paul cold strict and ruthless data style. Then he lost to a trainer that had at team full of legendaries but that just said that the only way they could have prevented Ash from winning this and any other tournament was if they did that again. He did have a problem adjusting to Torterra being a big Might Glacier instead of a small Lightning Bruiser like the rest of his team. Which was never fixed and made him a dead weight on the team.

Unova: It was basically a reset button like with the game. It did try to justify Ash's lost with the fact that Cameron is some kind of battle savant that trained his pokemon really well. While Ash's Unova team was the weakest team he ever had.

Kalos: Ash has seen more part of the world then anyone he faced in that tournament, has more battle experience then most of the other trainers, has focused on training his pokemon really well, has the smallest and most focused on team in any of the seasons, all of them are fully evolved, he got a special pokemon with it's own unique transformation, and his two opponent where personal roadblock who purpose there was for him to overcome. Saywer looked up to Ash as a role model and mentor figure, while Alain only enter the tournament to fight Ash hoping that the tournament would add a little spice to their third battle. Sinnoh set up the possibility of Ash maybe winning. With explains what happens after someone wins the league tournament. They go on to fight the elite four then the champion (which would have been fine if Ash  won the tournament then lost to of one the elite four at least he finally was making progress again). Kalos basically laid out that it was finally going to happen or at the very least this was the best shot he has ever had.... Then new writer team for that very episode.

Honestly, the fight was very boring. Alain team was impressive looking but poor preforming. He basically relied on Mega Charzard X to power through everything like every other battle I have seen him in. Also with Bisharp acting as a deus ex machina to get rid of two of the pokemon and weaken Greninja before the Greninja v. Charzard fight. His Tyranitar was laughable, Metagross wasn't much better, Weavile was able to defeat Noivern in two attack to get rid of him, and his Unfezant existed to do a double knock out with Talonflame. He didn't have any impressive strategies compared to even the battle before his. Much less rivals in the other seasons.

So Ash failing to overcome Alain was unsatisfying.

Interesting to know that, there they go do not need do a plot like romance, the main audience like it simple.

 I wonder how Japan takes the Ash loss?

From what I understand they may just be getting sick of the anime (it has gone on for almost twenty years by this point) and Yokai Watch increasing popularity.

"And apparently the Japanese fanbase really did not like the outcome. Nor did anyone else for that matter."

Wasn't their an old image where Naruto was thinking of Sakura, Ichigo was thinks of Orihime, and Luffy was thinking of meat? It was an official image of shounen jump for some valentine event a few years back. I think some of you have used it in your arguments before.

Come on. This isn't like the Naruto ending where they abandon the entire story for a pairing in hopes of appealing to the international fanbase. And it ended so they could have a month to advertise for a kitten movie.

Bleach was cancelled or at least as close to cancelled without admitting it. So Kubo cut the final boss fight short so he could have two chapter to focus on the epilogue on for the spirit world and one for the real world.

The story was concluded some may not like it but it is not the Naruto ending where executive and editorial meddling were the real writers of it. This as far as I can tell was kubo intended ending with or without the canceling.

Kishi was the mangaka of Naruto while Yahagi was his first editor and the one he worked with the longest. An important thing to remember is that yahagi was just the editors. His job and they both seem to admit is that while he may have given a lot of advice that affected the direction Naruto story went as well as its pacing. It was still kishi's job to actually write it while yahagi's was to be the filter that decided what went into the manga. Naruto's collapsed slowly over time due to conflict with the new editors and the constant changing of editors among other problems. It did not collapse immediately in on itself once yahagi left.

Why would Yahagi hate Kishimoto for the ending? He worked with kishi for around ten years, and one of the people that help make both kishi and Naruto the mangaka and manga it was before the ending. He probably was one of the first people to understand why the ending happen the way it did, even if he didn't stay in contact with kishi. Him getting kishi in his magazine also if true becoming his editor again. Was to most likely get kishi back on his feet again and become the mangaka who created a manga the once was the rival of One Piece once again.

Found someone trying to explain why otaku is a negative connotation to someone. So adding this the next time someone bring up otakus. "Otaku has been a taboo term in Japan since the Otaku Killer. A middle aged man in Japan whom raped and killed little girls, and it was found that his house was completely filled with anime, hentai( loli hentai specifically ), eroge, and figurines. Ever since then the otaku lifestyle has taken a pretty bad rep in Japan."

Now i understand why people called Naruto fan to be the most toxic and rabid among all other manga fans.

Imagine there is a million sawyer and forneverworld out there .... give me creeps.

It is a side effect of the internet age. In the old days they would have been forced to either grow up by entering the real world or they would live utterly miserable lives. Now they can stay a child forever while complaining about how bad the world is because it not giving them everything they want.

I still find it pathetic that Foreverworld Sawyer and Double anime are the faces of a international fanbase. Even if it is Naruto. Honestly couldn't they at least train a dog to sit in front of the tv whenever they put Naruto on instead?

Lol you're missing my point. He sympathizes with friendzoned characters. Sakura was not even friendzoned by Sasuek, she was merely a teammate. Naruto was friendzoned by Sakura but bc Sakura was not friendzoned he could not sympathize with her. But both Hinata and Naruto were friendzoned AND Hinata was being friendzoned by Naruto. Sawyer doesn't want to be a girl, but he can relate to Hinata being friendzoned.

 

Sawyer has never been the Naruto/ the pursued, he has always been the Hinata/The friendzoned.

 

Hinata is the real selfinsert and why they rabidly defend her. Naruto is just the faiytail hero who finally let's them past the friendzone wall

....Let me get this out of the way first. Shadow, you are right that Naruto is the pursuer (of Sakura) and is not pursued (by hinata) in both the anime and manga . The thing is we are not talking about either the manga or the anime. We are talking about nH fans' fantasy world. In which Naruto represents both. This is because in their minds hinata was a major character and her romantic love arc was the major plot line of the story.

You also got to understand which one represent who for each gender. For guys they insert into Naruto because they want to get revenge on the "friendzoning whores" ie Sakura by getting the perfect woman Hinata. While girls imagine themselves as the shy under-confidant but actually the most beautiful girl in the land. Who is in love with a boy that would truly love her with all his heart if he could just look at her for a second. But he is currently which this horrid kitten who doesn't deserve him nor understand him like inset girl does.

So nH ending represent to nH fans a victory for guys over the "friendzoning kittenes" by getting that hot piece of ass, while for girls it represent them getting the man that is rightfully theirs from that "horrid whore." They don't care about the story of Naruto. All they cared about the victory for them. They didn't care if nH has no build up as long as NS also doesn't get it either before the ending as long as they won in the end.

Of course now with the ending in-theory supposedly proving them right about something for once in their lives. They want to get the reward they fell they so rightfully deserve. When they spent so little on the series. Which is kishi having to write another manga going on about how get and beautiful and perfect nH is and how it existence has made the world a better place, and SP making an anime full of nH romance scenes. The problem is that kishi was indifferent at best to nH before the ending he now absolutely despises the pairing now and would now never do a story about their romance. And SP even though they were one of the major supporters of nH after the damage that pairing has cause to the company. They have grown to hate it as well. Which is causing the nH fans to lash out since this is flying in the face of what they wanted with their ending.

Sawyer is inserting into Naruto because he wants to get back at all the girls that have friendzone him (who he inserts into Sakura) by his insert character getting his perfect woman (Hinata). So in his mind he can eventually get his perfect girl in real live, so he can someday personally stick it to all the woman that have friendzoned him.

This is also why they hate/furious/terrified of the idea of a reboot where instead NS happens because it would be proving them wrong as well as so few people agreed with them a company actually change the ending to a done story just because how unpopular their actual dream is.

Neon: 'perception is reality' for most people. Also numbers don't lie people do. So to the people working in Shueisha, SP, and even people who are just looking at the sales numbers.  All they can see is that the Naruto franchise is in free-fall. Anyone who uses "well the reason it didn't sell well is because kishi wasn't the mangaka" is just speculating to justify why the volume didn't sell well. So there could be 100 million people in Japan who claim to be nH fans as far as we know, but that doesn't matter only since about 183,000 actually purchase a volume that is a continuation of their ending.

As for kishimoto he was initially fine with the ending since he was told that it was what the majority of the fans wanted anyways. Once he learned that wasn't the case well. He did not care about nor like either nH/SS beforehand he certainly doesn't now. 

Nama: We got silent majority vs the vocal minority going on with the Naruto series. Most were fine with even if they did not support NS it being the end pairing. So they didn't feel the need to constantly send letter to kishi about how they like the story and he should keep doing what he was doing. On  the other hand kishi constantly got messages from a small group of people that absolutely despised Sakura and refused to allow her to get what in their mind was rightfully hinata's.

Now to add to this here is a lesson from scientist man:

183K first week sales? That's a major flop of a legendary manga franchise. That's what happen as what everyone said that they rehashed too much of the Boruto film.

 

 

So they are intentionally trying to quit the anime and passed on the dump to another company?

No, SP are looking for another series they could make profits off of.

As for Naruto SP has too close a tie to Shueisha to just outright cancel Naruto. Most of SP anime are based off Shueisha series. So instead they are "finishing" Naruto this year. Then they will do the novels next year, and then they will look at Boruto's volume sales (and if they are the same or lower then they are now) they will tell Shueisha "its potential profit are not enough to risk spending resources on an anime."  Once SP refuses to do Boruto that is going to look bad. SP once again has very close ties to Shueisha, it has done or been involved in every Naruto related product for the past fourteen years. Once the refuse to do the anime Shueisha can not go to another studio to do a Boruto anime without losing face.

The thing is everything since the backlash started and they realized the western nH fans weren't worth that much, all Shueisha  has been doing is trying to save face for their executive meddling mistake. Once SP refuses to do the anime they can't go to another studio because that would make them lose face. So instead what they are more likely to do is to order Ikemoto, Kishimoto, and Kodachi to end the series a quickly as possible. Because without an anime it won't make as much profits could. Which means it taking up space in there magazine that could be filled by another manga that could get an anime and make them profits. Then they will have them do interview explaining why they are ending the manga so soon. It would be face saving BS of course.

If this is the case Boruto manga life expectancy is about 2 to 3 years. If what I am guessing is correct and it doesn't somehow change it luck around.

I wonder how the Japanese are reacting?

Even though the numbers only came out to 183k, some people still think it did really well considering it was #1 for the week. Beating Gintama, Nisekoi and Toriko. But those three are coming to an end so take that for what it's worth.

Not sure about gintama. But Toriko has never recovered from it anime being cancelled and from what i understand is being forced to end soon. Nisekoi has finally ended and one of the few thing i have ever heard about this series was the fan thought that "the story was going on too long and should end soon." Which i heard before it reach chapter 50, it ended near chapter 232 if i recall.

The thing is Boruto did exceptionally well for any average manga. The problem Boruto isn't some any new average manga and companies had high expectations for it. Also it is less a sequel to Naruto as it is Part 3 a continuation of the Naruto story. Most stories will have some time to itself after it ended before a sequel is announced. Boruto was announced at the end of Naruto: The Last Movie. Then after that they have never stopped announcing that Boruto was happening that a movie was coming out or a gaiden or a new manga.

So looking at it like that:

Naruto manga by the end normally got around or over a million in their first week ~1,000,000~

The last volume first week was had about eight hundred thousand in sales. ~800,000~

The gaiden from what i recall (could be wrong) had about six hundred thousand in first week sales. ~600,000~

Now Boruto has around a hundred and eighty thousand in sales ~180,000~

The franchise is hemorrhaging fans.

This is why they are ending the anime this year. SP can't afford to hope that Boruto may get better. They got to pay their bill so instead of spending resources on a failing series. They are ending the main story this year. Then next year they'll do some of the novels. If Boruto hasn't shaped up by then. They will find another series to be their cash cow.

Edit Oh, Sakura was in that death battle spin off and i think she was the first Naruto character to win their match. Naruto lost to Luffy in One minute melee, and Gaara lost to Toph in Death battle. 

The number is out.

Under 200K. Well, that's a significant drop. Granted it will still pay the bill but it's the case of milk it again like another new generation, it will die.

Now then, time to see how long it can stand.

Well that made my day.

Hey 4life when did SP announce it was cancelling the anime? Cause if they announced it in the past seven days the answer is, that they were able to see the volume initial sales numbers and were not impressed.

I think honestly that this first volume was a test by SJ to see how initially popular Boruto was and how many fans it had left over from Naruto. It is the only thing that explains the 3 chapter volume. Most monthly manga normally have between 5-10 (leaning on the 10 side) chapters in each volume. So this was a test by them to see how it was doing and the answer is not well.

Now let us look at why this sold so poorly....to what it should/hoped it would be selling:

It is the culmination of everything bad that has happen to the Naruto franchise in the past 2 years. If not more.

It is based on an unlikable main character.

It is heroine is wearing a very age inappropriate outfit.

It spoils its entire plot, and killed off the old main character in the first chapter.

It is a rehash of a movie that wasn't even a year old yet and who's dvd/blue-ray disk came out a few weeks back.

Its art is very inconsistent chapter to chapter sometime even page to page.

It is only a three chapter volume.

it is based on a monthly series.

It is the continuation of a dying series.

And nothing interesting has happened in the story yet to get people wanting to buy this volume when they know this part of the story won't be complete until at the very least volume 3.

They're ending this year. Novel series is most likely a season of its own. But still, finally ending the nightmare.

It is less a nightmare and more "a poor animal like a cow they milked to the point of torture. That they've just refused to let die, and are now finally putting it to death."

The nightmare has just began. 

Oh right now they still have to drag out the novel adaptations until they do bolt's anime. If they can.

that's disappointing. they're actually gonna go through with this. they've already bombarded us with so much sht already. i was starting to think they were coming to their senses, but here they are making a new naruhina movie. i thought they would realize that naruhina are a bad couple based on the negative reviews of the last pitiful movie. i guessed wrong. oh well life goes on

Where does it say there making another nH movie? It talking about new filler based on those novels.