74 replies to this topic

[Raiya]

We have evidence that naruhina was not meant to be canon in the fact that hinata herself did end up being teased as a child.  They had to find out a way for Hinata to take Sakura's place, the actual heroine (The girl who we know WAS teased as a child), and this is the perfect way to establish a relationship way back when.  Hinata is essentially taking Sakura's place now.  But why build up the backstory for Sakura, for her to have done literally everything that Hinata is getting now, if she wasn't meant to end up with naruto?  There is no way naruhina was planned from the beginning, none.
 
It makes zero sense.  I find it sad that Hinata is getting all the limelight and that Sakura's character has been so abused and abandoned.  It was Naruto defending Sakura.  It should be her in the spotlight now.
 
Funny that Sakura would be called 'fickle' if she changed her mind and went with naruto over Sasuke.. But Naruto can freely change his mind and go for hinata.  I constantly ask myself how Naruhina fans can be satisfied with this ending, and how Kishimoto as its author can find this acceptable.


Sakura's forehead has become Hinata's eyes.  how sad.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

We have evidence that naruhina was not meant to be canon in the fact that hinata herself did end up being teased as a child.  They had to find out a way for Hinata to take Sakura's place, the actual heroine (The girl who we know WAS teased as a child), and this is the perfect way to establish a relationship way back when.  Hinata is essentially taking Sakura's place now.  But why build up the backstory for Sakura, for her to have done literally everything that Hinata is getting now, if she wasn't meant to end up with naruto?  There is no way naruhina was planned from the beginning, none.

 

It makes zero sense.  I find it sad that Hinata is getting all the limelight and that Sakura's character has been so abused and abandoned.  It was Naruto defending Sakura.  It should be her in the spotlight now.

 

Funny that Sakura would be called 'fickle' if she changed her mind and went with naruto over Sasuke.. But Naruto can freely change his mind and go for hinata.  I constantly ask myself how Naruhina fans can be satisfied with this ending, and how Kishimoto as its author can find this acceptable.

 

I know how you exactly feel! :)

[tricksie]

We have evidence that naruhina was not meant to be canon in the fact that hinata herself did end up being teased as a child.  They had to find out a way for Hinata to take Sakura's place, the actual heroine (The girl who we know WAS teased as a child), and this is the perfect way to establish a relationship way back when.  Hinata is essentially taking Sakura's place now.  But why build up the backstory for Sakura, for her to have done literally everything that Hinata is getting now, if she wasn't meant to end up with naruto?  There is no way naruhina was planned from the beginning, none.

 

It makes zero sense.  I find it sad that Hinata is getting all the limelight and that Sakura's character has been so abused and abandoned.  It was Naruto defending Sakura.  It should be her in the spotlight now.

 

Funny that Sakura would be called 'fickle' if she changed her mind and went with naruto over Sasuke.. But Naruto can freely change his mind and go for hinata.  I constantly ask myself how Naruhina fans can be satisfied with this ending, and how Kishimoto as its author can find this acceptable.

 

Yeah, it's so disappointing.

 

Your post reminded me that I was looking forward to learning more about Sakura's childhood toward the end of the manga, in flashbacks. Or even in fillers in the anime after NS was confirmed in the manga.

 

I was sure there would be scenes delving into why Naruto fell for her (like him rooting for her in their young academy days), and then flashbacks from Sakura showing her taking notice of Naruto when they were children. Like an elaboration on the scene already in the manga where Sakura is watching Naruto and Sasuke fight, and while the rest all cheer for Sasuke, Sakura is clearly watching Naruto with some small bit of concern.

 

Still such a bummer. Even months later. Hinata is definitely getting the focus and character development (through retcons) that I was hoping/expecting to see for Sakura. 

 

How are NaruHina fans satisfied with all this? Simple: They care more about Hinata than they do about Naruto. In fact, I bet if Hinata were to be split off and made the main character of her own series, her fans would go with her and never look back. It's not about Naruto for them. It's about Hinata. That's why they don't care about the integrity of the story, or how unfounded the end pairings were. It was just about the fairy tale ending for their fairy tale character, Hinata.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Yeah, it's so disappointing.

 

Your post reminded me that I was looking forward to learning more about Sakura's childhood toward the end of the manga, in flashbacks. Or even in fillers in the anime after NS was confirmed in the manga.

 

I was sure there would be scenes delving into why Naruto fell for her (like him rooting for her in their young academy days), and then flashbacks from Sakura showing her taking notice of Naruto when they were children. Like an elaboration on the scene already in the manga where Sakura is watching Naruto and Sasuke fight, and while the rest all cheer for Sasuke, Sakura is clearly watching Naruto with some small bit of concern.

 

Still such a bummer. Even months later. Hinata is definitely getting the focus and character development (through retcons) that I was hoping/expecting to see for Sakura. 

 

How are NaruHina fans satisfied with all this? Simple: They care more about Hinata than they do about Naruto. In fact, I bet if Hinata were to be split off and made the main character of her own series, her fans would go with her and never look back. It's not about Naruto for them. It's about Hinata. That's why they don't care about the integrity of the story, or how unfounded the end pairings were. It was just about the fairy tale ending for their fairy tale character, Hinata.

 

I know whatcha mean, Tricksie, and considering what is a drag is that Sakura just got screwed like everyone else. Plus you nailed it for sure about NH fans; some of them just care about Hinata, not about the story or even Naruto himself. They only want their princess to be happy, even if it means everyone else is suffering because of it. And let's face it; they got what they wanted, so congratu-freakin'-lations to them! X-P

 

And I know whatcha mean too on the character development Hinata got Sakura should have gotten, since Sakura was one of the other main characters after her debut. All of this makes me realize that for my fanfic, as I work on it, I gotta do what Kishimoto-sensei failed to do due to outside pressure as well as to show love to EVERYONE not just who fans want to have most showcased. And that even means putting up with the NH kitten who would put me down for having NS as a big focus for it, but not THE focus like Studio Pierrot so horrificly did with NH in The Last.

[TerrorKing]

 

Yeah, it's so disappointing.

 

Your post reminded me that I was looking forward to learning more about Sakura's childhood toward the end of the manga, in flashbacks. Or even in fillers in the anime after NS was confirmed in the manga.

 

I was sure there would be scenes delving into why Naruto fell for her (like him rooting for her in their young academy days), and then flashbacks from Sakura showing her taking notice of Naruto when they were children. Like an elaboration on the scene already in the manga where Sakura is watching Naruto and Sasuke fight, and while the rest all cheer for Sasuke, Sakura is clearly watching Naruto with some small bit of concern.

 

Still such a bummer. Even months later. Hinata is definitely getting the focus and character development (through retcons) that I was hoping/expecting to see for Sakura. 

 

How are NaruHina fans satisfied with all this? Simple: They care more about Hinata than they do about Naruto. In fact, I bet if Hinata were to be split off and made the main character of her own series, her fans would go with her and never look back. It's not about Naruto for them. It's about Hinata. That's why they don't care about the integrity of the story, or how unfounded the end pairings were. It was just about the fairy tale ending for their fairy tale character, Hinata.

That's what upsets me more than NS not becoming canon. I was never really concerned about NS not becoming canon. I was always more concerned with Sakura and her development. It's so frustrating that while Naruto and Sasuke got lots of development, Sakura was always getting sidelined. If NH and SS had to be canon, then so be it, but at least give Sakura the development she deserves. 

 

This is why the popularity arguments irks me so much. Not only does it not make any sense, but it also sends the message that the fans are the ones who decide who gets treated well and who gets shafted. As if fans know what's best for the story.

 

Oh sorry I forgot. Apparently this is nothing more than a glorified ecchi, where popularity trumps good storytelling. My bad.

/sarcasm

[Smiter]

 

:clap: Smiter, you are the BEST!! Especially since your last words are right. If you ask me, it's sad for sure, especially since Kishimoto-sensei allowed himself to be judged as one of the worst mangaka in Japan of these last few decades. And I doubt he'll ever rebuild his rep and career after he did this with the ending...

 

Thanks, Bryon. I didn't expect to get all these likes for my post! 

 

Yeah, it's really sad.  If Kishimoto had stuck to his story and character development, he could have given the manga a much better ending.  Let us actually see Naruto become Hokage (not Kakashi, he never had interest in the role and only did it because Obito told him to), let us see Sasuke leave with Team Taka, and either pair Naruto with Sakura (explicitly or hinted) or leave it open-ended pairing-wise.  Above all, KEEP EVERYONE IN CHARACTER!

 

By sticking to the development he had already established, Kishimoto would have been able to bow out with grace, and he would have still been free to pursue other stories.  The fans would still be interested in checking out any new works he put out.

 

But the way Kishimoto has ended it, a lot of people won't be interested in anything new he puts out.  Like you said, it will take a miracle to restore his reputation, and he seems to have neither the ability nor the inclination to do that. 

 

We have evidence that naruhina was not meant to be canon in the fact that hinata herself did end up being teased as a child.  They had to find out a way for Hinata to take Sakura's place, the actual heroine (The girl who we know WAS teased as a child), and this is the perfect way to establish a relationship way back when.  Hinata is essentially taking Sakura's place now.  But why build up the backstory for Sakura, for her to have done literally everything that Hinata is getting now, if she wasn't meant to end up with naruto?  There is no way naruhina was planned from the beginning, none.

 

Exactly!  It really shows when Studio Pierrot had to retcon Hinata's character so much and, like others have said in this thread, it makes no sense at all.  Why would Hinata be bullied for her eyes when her clan is highly respected?  Like you said, they took Sakura's forehead and turned it into Hinata's eyes.

 

It's quite striking how they took elements of NaruSaku and NaruSasu and transplanted them into a NaruHina retcon in the movie.  Not only does it highlight the massive lack of development between Naruto and Hinata in the manga, but it also shows how shameless Studio Pierrot are.

 

Even without Sakura having childhood flashbacks, she still had a lot of development and build-up with Naruto in the manga, right from chapter 3.

 

 

How are NaruHina fans satisfied with all this? Simple: They care more about Hinata than they do about Naruto. In fact, I bet if Hinata were to be split off and made the main character of her own series, her fans would go with her and never look back. It's not about Naruto for them. It's about Hinata. That's why they don't care about the integrity of the story, or how unfounded the end pairings were. It was just about the fairy tale ending for their fairy tale character, Hinata.

 

Not all NaruHina and SasuSaku fans are pleased with the ending, but it's true that the ones who are really pleased about it only care about the "canon status" and/or Hinata herself.  Others have shown misgivings about how the ending happened, because they were well aware of NaruSaku having all that development.  Most of them even expected NaruSaku to happen instead.

[somilmish]

I think that kishi intended NH to happen, but accidentally developed narusaku instead. Then, in the last volume, realized his mistake and tried very hard to develop NH And SS..
but failed..

[Gravenimage]

somilmish@ I don't want to get in an argument with you, but I have to disagreed. If Kishimoto truly intended for NH since the beginning (we're talking about part1):

-He would've introduced Hinata earlier.

-He would've developed a NH friendship starting the development of the relationship.

-Naruto could have a crush on Sakura at the beginning but with the frequent NH development, by the time part1 ends he would've move on from Sakura. But that's not what happened.

 

Kishimoto could have done the same thing in part 2 but he kept showing Naruto liking Sakura and she showing signs that she likes him. Then we have Yamato's speech, Sakura/Kushina, Minato's approval etc. Point is Kishi had DOZENS of chances to develop NH/SS in his 15 year old and he chose to do it in 2 chapters from 698 chapters.

[Smiter]

I think that kishi intended NH to happen, but accidentally developed narusaku instead. Then, in the last volume, realized his mistake and tried very hard to develop NH And SS..
but failed..

 
Sorry, but I have to disagree strongly with you on this.
 
It's not possible to develop something "accidentally" for FIFTEEN YEARS.
 
When Sakura was first introduced in Chapter 3, Naruto said that she was the girl he really liked.  Later in that chapter, while disguised as Sasuke, he understood why he really liked Sakura.  She was the same as him when it came to her desire to be acknowledged.
 
As we go through Part One of the manga, we see more and more of Naruto's feelings towards Sakura.  He drew extra strength in his fight against Gaara because he saw Sakura as his most precious person, and he never stopped fighting until Sasuke told him Sakura was safe.
 
Sakura also grew closer to Naruto as Part One went on, as she cast aside each of her prejudices towards him.  By the end of Part One, she had gone from seeing Naruto as an annoyance, to seeing him as the person she trusts the most in the world.
 
In Part Two, Naruto is still in love with Sakura, and we begin to see Sakura develop feelings for him that go beyond friendship.  The databook at the time said that Sakura's heart beats faster around Naruto, but she hasn't understood her own feelings yet.  We even get to see other characters like Yamato hint that Sakura has strong feelings towards Naruto that are more than platonic.  Naruto even reaffirms his love for Sakura when he tells Sai that he can't confess to her because he hasn't kept his Promise of a Lifetime.
 
Those are not the actions of a guy who sees a girl as a trophy in a "rivalry game".
 
When Sakura confessed to Naruto, Kishimoto said in an interview at the time that "Sakura's confession was honest".  If we understand it right, she was telling the truth when she spoke of how Naruto made her feel.  You can see it right in her body language and expressions.  The only time she lied was right at the end when she claimed to feel nothing at all for Sasuke.  Sakura's feelings were still in conflict between Naruto and Sasuke, and she is not the kind of girl to cut someone off just like that.  That's why Naruto told Sakura to stop lying to herself, because he knew she wouldn't just cast off Sasuke like that.
 
After that, we continued to see development between Naruto and Sakura as they grew closer and their dynamic became stronger.  Naruto even tells his own father that Sakura is his girlfriend, and he was NOT joking.  Why would he joke about that to his own father in the middle of a war?
 
Not once in the entire manga did Naruto show romantic feelings towards Hinata.  Not once in the entire manga did Sasuke show romantic feelings towards Sakura.  There were NO hints that both boys would fall for those respective girls.
 
Like Gravenimage said, Kishimoto had plenty of chances to develop NaruHina and SasuSaku romantically over 15 years.  He didn't do that until the very last two chapters.  Instead, he developed NaruSaku.
 
Kishimoto knew full well what he was doing.  You cannot call it a red herring, because he never bothered to develop NaruHina in a romantic sense.
 
The ending was so sudden and so badly written that the majority of the fanbase was shocked and angry.  In Japan, ratings for The Last movie and the Naruto anime have plunged.  Studio Pierrot are most likely losing money.  I've even heard that Studio Pierrot have introduced fillers in the anime RIGHT BEFORE Sakura was due to kiss Naruto in the CPR scene, in an attempt to downplay its impact.
 
Shameless, huh?

They had to retcon the manga to death in order to make NaruHina look "realistic", and they haven't even explained how SasuSaku happened asides from saying that Sakura would be a "terrible girl" for moving on from someone who didn't love her.
 
Even Naruto's VA, Junko Takeuchi, is disappointed and angry.  She was a fan of the manga and had read it for over 10 years, and she is a well known NaruSasu/NaruSaku fan.  Since the manga is published in her native Japanese, she understands every meaning of the dialogue in the manga, every nuance.
 
There's no accident here.  Kishimoto was forced to change the ending or sold out.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 
Sorry, but I have to disagree strongly with you on this.
 
It's not possible to develop something "accidently" for FIFTEEN YEARS.
 
When Sakura was first introduced in Chapter 3, Naruto said that she was the girl he really liked.  Later in that chapter, while disguised as Sasuke, he understood why he really liked Sakura.  She was the same as him when it came to her desire to be acknowledged.
 
As we go through Part One of the manga, we see more and more of Naruto's feelings towards Sakura.  He drew extra strength in his fight against Gaara because he saw Sakura as his most precious person, and he never stopped fighting until Sasuke told him Sakura was safe.
 
Sakura also grew closer to Naruto as Part One went on, as she cast aside each of her prejudices towards him.  By the end of Part One, she had gone from seeing Naruto as an annoyance, to seeing him as the person she trusts the most in the world.
 
In Part Two, Naruto is still in love with Sakura, and we begin to see Sakura develop feelings for him that go beyond friendship.  The databook at the time said that Sakura's heart beats faster around Naruto, but she hasn't understood her own feelings yet.  We even get to see other characters like Yamato hint that Sakura has strong feelings towards Naruto that are more than platonic.  Naruto even reaffirms his love for Sakura when he tells Sai that he can't confess to her because he hasn't kept his Promise of a Lifetime.
 
Those are not the actions of a guy who sees a girl as a trophy in a "rivalry game".
 
When Sakura confessed to Naruto, Kishimoto said in an interview at the time that "Sakura's confession was honest".  If we understand it right, she was telling the truth when she spoke of how Naruto made her feel.  You can see it right in her body language and expressions.  The only time she lied was right at the end when she claimed to feel nothing at all for Sasuke.  Sakura's feelings were still in conflict between Naruto and Sasuke, and she is not the kind of girl to cut someone off just like that.  That's why Naruto told Sakura to stop lying to herself, because he knew she wouldn't just cast off Sasuke like that.
 
After that, we continued to see development between Naruto and Sakura as they grew closer and their dynamic became stronger.  Naruto even tells his own father that Sakura is his girlfriend, and he was NOT joking.  Why would he joke about that to his own father in the middle of a war?
 
Not once in the entire manga did Naruto show romantic feelings towards Hinata.  Not once in the entire manga did Sasuke show romantic feelings towards Sakura.  There were NO hints that both boys would fall for those respective girls.
 
Like Gravenimage said, Kishimoto had plenty of chances to develop NaruHina and SasuSaku romantically over 15 years.  He didn't do that until the very last two chapters.  Instead, he developed NaruSaku.
 
Kishimoto knew full well what he was doing.  You cannot call it a red herring, because he never bothered to develop NaruHina in a romantic sense.
 
The ending was so sudden and so badly written that the majority of the fanbase was shocked and angry.  In Japan, ratings for The Last movie and the Naruto anime have plunged.  Studio Pierrot are most likely losing money.  I've even heard that Studio Pierrot have introduced fillers in the anime RIGHT BEFORE Sakura was due to kiss Naruto in the CPR scene, in an attempt to downplay its impact.
 
Shameless, huh?

They had to retcon the manga to death in order to make NaruHina look "realistic", and they haven't even explained how SasuSaku happened asides from saying that Sakura would be a "terrible girl" for moving on from someone who didn't love her.
 
Even Naruto's VA, Junko Takeuchi, is disappointed and angry.  She was a fan of the manga and had read it for over 10 years, and she is a well known NaruSasu/NaruSaku fan.  Since the manga is published in her native Japanese, she understands every meaning of the dialogue in the manga, every nuance.
 
There's no accident here.  Kishimoto was forced to change the ending or sold out.

 

I know whatcha mean, Smiter. All of us had some good parts, and it sucks to me that Naruto had to be retconned like it was for such a pathetic reason...

[Gravenimage]

Smitter I will give a million likes to your post if I could. EPIC post nothing but the solid truth. The sad part is I think Kishimoto knows very well he screwed up big time but he doesn't care. He only cares that he has lots and lots of money. And with the new era project he's going to get more money.

[Nar123]

So many great posts,wish i could like all of them but the like limiter is horrible  

[Strangelove]

The Naruto ending did bended. It bended space time continuum, creating an alternate universe where Sakura has been replaced with Hinata, and Karin was replaced with Sakura. It had a problem though, Sakura's kid Salad did not render correctly, thus she lacks any physical aspects of her mother.

 

Edit: It also explained why Burrito and the girl's name escapes me did not have Byakugan, that also did not rendered correctly.

Edited by Strangelove, 09 January 2015 - 05:33 PM.

[Smiter]

Smitter I will give a million likes to your post if I could. EPIC post nothing but the solid truth. The sad part is I think Kishimoto knows very well he screwed up big time but he doesn't care. He only cares that he has lots and lots of money. And with the new era project he's going to get more money.

 

Thanks, Graven. 

 

Yeah, I agree.  I just hope that one day Kishimoto will regret what he did to his story in the end, if he doesn't already.  He could have been fondly remembered for the Naruto series, but a lot of people are now going to think of him as a fraud and sell-out.

 

It's sad to think that Naruto could well end within the year with its deeply unpopular "Part 3".  There was no need to tack on a Part 3 with a different "hero", and the series has completely lost its focus on Naruto Uzumaki.  It was supposed to be HIS story.  It was supposed to be the story of a lonely boy who grew up to become the hero of the village and fulfilled his dream of becoming Hokage, as well as winning the heart of the girl he really loved (hint, she has pink hair).

 

It's just sad to think that the whole thing could fizzle out within the year because of plummeting ratings and the fans leaving in droves.  It would be nice to think that the whole disaster could cause Kishimoto and Shonen Jump to reconsider their actions, but they just seem to be completely focused on trying to paper over the cracks instead of addressing what really went wrong.  They keep committing such terrible screw-ups with the fans, that I feel those poor people in their PR department will have an aneurysm or something.  I fear that they will just end up cancelling the series and leaving it in such a mess.

 

Junko Takeuchi is the only person to walk out of the wreckage with her head held high, because she has been nothing but honest and tactful.  She deserves huge respect for not peddling the same crap we've been hearing from Kishimoto, Shonen Jump and Studio Pierrot.

[Metalhead87]

Smiter, I'm starting to wonder if I should just automatically like your posts even before I've read them, because it seems with each one you hit the nail on the head.